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Post by pendlewitch on Feb 7, 2020 6:34:49 GMT -5
www.change.org/p/it-s-time-to-stop-trophy-huntingThe petition is now edited to something entirely different - it's now aimed for UK government to ban trophy hunting, and the recipient is Boris Johnson. Taking a look at the comment section, you can see this is the same petition as the Beach Boys ones that has accumulated +130,000 signatures. Now the show that the original petition was meant to stop is over, and although I'd say most, if not all of those who have signed would agree with what this petition says, but I've got a feeling that it's totally dishonest to edit the petition for a totally different, non-BB related cause. Yep, that's pretty devious. Not entirely unrelated to the pic below, that is my last say on this matter. Grrr. bit.ly/38jIdMp
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Post by AGD on Feb 7, 2020 6:44:19 GMT -5
You're correct, and I've reported it for the complete change of point. Retaining over 125,000 signatures from a totally different petition is plain wrong. Should anyone wish to have a word with Mr. Goncalves, he's on Facebook.
To be clear, I fully support his stance against trophy hunting, but do it by honest means or not at all.
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Post by monolithic on Feb 7, 2020 6:50:20 GMT -5
While he is the one most at fault, none of the touring band members come away from this with a shred of credibility as human beings. If my boss told me to attend such an event, I would refuse as any person with any degree of moral courage or decency would. Every member of the band who played has shown themselves to be putrid excrescences and have let themselves down. They have allowed their grubby palms to be crossed with silver and I hope they enjoy their night's earnings. This is extremely unfair. I think this club is a disgusting one, and it lowers my opinion of Mike somewhat that the group have played for them (though not that much, as I've always assumed that Mike would play any show that would pay him, so it's largely factored in to my opinion).
But the band members are not actively supporting the organisation by playing that show. They're doing the same job they always do, playing the same songs in the same way, and in very few jobs do you get to choose your customers. If you're a nurse, you don't get to say "I'm not treating that person because of their politics". If you work in McDonald's you don't get to say "I'm not selling that person a burger because he's got a criminal record", or whatever. You do the job and let the bosses worry about overall policy.
That doesn't mean there aren't lines one shouldn't cross, and I suspect that were I one of the band members I would have refused to play this gig -- but then they've played a number of other gigs I would have refused to play, over the years.
We don't know the personal beliefs of the band members. We also don't know their financial situations. We *do* know that they're not exactly overpaid (I believe I've read that Mike pays union scale. Even if he pays more than that, it's not like any of them are earning any more than a decent middle-class wage), that none of them are particularly young, that some of them have families, that healthcare in America is extortionately expensive, and that the music industry is one where steady jobs are very, very hard to find.
If you're in your fifties or sixties, have been doing the same job for twenty or so years, and know that finding another job might be difficult, and you decide to do your job in a situation like that, it doesn't make you a "putrid excrescence". It makes you someone who needs to eat, and to feed your family, and maybe pay for your kid to go to college or for your wife's operation or whatever. Well I didn't expect anyone or everyone to agree with my opinion, but I stand by it as things stand. If it transpires over the coming weeks that band members felt they had no option other than to play but are now looking for positions in other bands, then I will happily retract my words. I would say though that I don't think there is any real similarity to the two comparisons that you drew. Partly because The Beach Boys were not simply working at their usual venue with customers visiting them (as happens in a hospital or restaurant) and partly because the job of a musician is so different from that of a nurse or a fast food server. If a McDonalds employee refuses to work, he is going to be immediately replaced. Not quite so easy to replace some of the band members (to varying degrees). Anyhow, we can agree to disagree...
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Post by John Manning on Feb 7, 2020 6:54:00 GMT -5
Well I'm flummoxed. Can't for the life of me find where I've signed this bloody thing… really really want to remove my sig now the petition has been tampereed with. But no achnowledgement email from Change anywhere…
EDit: I'd happily sign one against trophy hunting too, but not a doctored one. That's an abuse.
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Post by Fall Breaks on Feb 7, 2020 7:01:30 GMT -5
You're correct, and I've reported it for the complete change of point. Retaining over 125,000 signatures from a totally different petition is plain wrong. Should anyone wish to have a word with Mr. Goncalves, he's on Facebook. To be clear, I fully support his stance against trophy hunting, but do it by honest means or not at all. How did you go about reporting it? Is there a form to fill out or do I have to mail them?
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Post by AGD on Feb 7, 2020 7:02:01 GMT -5
Go right to the bottom, there's a "report" link.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 7, 2020 8:11:01 GMT -5
You're correct, and I've reported it for the complete change of point. Retaining over 125,000 signatures from a totally different petition is plain wrong. Should anyone wish to have a word with Mr. Goncalves, he's on Facebook. To be clear, I fully support his stance against trophy hunting, but do it by honest means or not at all. It should be reported for a false representation of the predicate of the original petition and he should be banned from change.org for such behavior. They did not sign a Boris-related petition. It is a scam and he should be exposed. The original signatories should not be included in his new and enlarged petition, and it be reported to every news outlet which carried the story for a response. A nice op-ed opportunity. The name and reputation of the band was used by this predator for his own ambitious end. It has nothing to do with the cause of banning the sport. Once his end is met, he will move on to something else. You change things “legislatively” going to the various governments involved - not using an event with high profile presenters and entertainers to do so. The work is more labor-intensive than an online petition that is a scam but the proper way to do it. Contacting change.org on their facebook page might be a good place to start (if some of the signers have one) (I am not on Facebook,) and anyone who signed, demand that the petition be either discarded for fraud, the originator banned for using the BB-event-related one. He should be banned from using the site, for deception among other things. This guy took advantage of fans (and band members) personal opinions about the sport in question, shook them down for donations, now has their credit card numbers and other personal information which the site could use (maybe sell) causing potential economic and reputational damage with this “I won’t buy BB recordings” and boycott them, declaration, inflamed the public at the same time. Such a clever boy.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 7, 2020 8:48:54 GMT -5
www.change.org/p/it-s-time-to-stop-trophy-huntingThe petition is now edited to something entirely different - it's now aimed for UK government to ban trophy hunting, and the recipient is Boris Johnson. Taking a look at the comment section, you can see this is the same petition as the Beach Boys ones that has accumulated +130,000 signatures. Now the show that the original petition was meant to stop is over, and although I'd say most, if not all of those who have signed would agree with what this petition says, but I've got a feeling that it's totally dishonest to edit the petition for a totally different, non-BB related cause. Thanks for the head’s up. Good for you to have done the follow up. People were used by this guy. Johnson was his ultimate target. The BBs were a means to his end. In the process he may have caused some internal organizational damage. I hope that can be quickly repaired now it is obvious that his ulterior motive was going after Boris. What unites that band from within, is greater than what might divide them, from without. 🎹🎵🎸🎤🎧❤️
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 9:04:58 GMT -5
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Post by Fall Breaks on Feb 7, 2020 9:26:11 GMT -5
Go right to the bottom, there's a "report" link.
Thanks.
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Post by Wicked Lester on Feb 7, 2020 12:10:25 GMT -5
That is classic bait and switch right there. You don't retroactively change the terms of a petition once people have signed it. Seems this guy used whatever clout the name 'The Beach Boys' has with the general public in 2020 to sucker people in.
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Post by Autotune on Feb 7, 2020 14:44:57 GMT -5
A sorry end to an ill-conceived deed.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 7, 2020 15:53:06 GMT -5
I’m probably in the minority but I think he’s naive, obsessed with his cause and probably, perhaps, maybe, possibly thick as.
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Post by AGD on Feb 7, 2020 15:56:47 GMT -5
Definitely obsessed:
Don't get me wrong, I've much sympathy for his ultimate aim, but his methodology is questionable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 18:01:28 GMT -5
Well ,I never signed the petition because I never under any circumstances take a piece of paper real or electronic that someone has put into my hands and tried to bully meet up my name behind a cause. Many times when people have petitions say Hey do you want to end child hunger? and you say yes of course and then you're signing something which has nothing to do with that. so be very cautious about where you put your name and not to have a knee jerk reaction to some claim that someone makes that they are supporting virtue or doing good. General advice, though I respect other people's opinions , is never put your name on anything unless it is of personal significance and you have completely absolutely every idea of why your signing something and for what reason. And that's something extremely hard to find in this day and age and unlikely to be found on websites.
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Post by brucesshorts on Feb 7, 2020 20:00:57 GMT -5
Didn’t The Bruce Boys play a Ralph’s parking lot several years back? Mike will play anywhere on the planet that asks him (and presumably pays) and we know this. He did also state that he doesn’t agree with Trump’s politics. Just sayin ...
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Post by John Manning on Feb 8, 2020 4:21:35 GMT -5
How long does it take Change.org to change a lightbulb kill a rogue petition? Have just reported it for the third time but still it sits there, with all the original signatures on it. They might only be token gestures but this puts me off ever signing an online petition again guess I know better now.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 8, 2020 6:10:32 GMT -5
Sorry to drag this on. Have just messaged the petition guy via his own website:
Hi Eduardo,
A number of Beach Boys fans are very disappointed that you have changed the title, description, recipient and even the URL of the petition they signed earlier this week to voice their concerns that the band was due to play at the trophy hunters' convention. Their names are now attached to a petition they did not sign.
As a former journalist, I'm sure you understand why they regard this as unethical. I and many others would support a petition calling for a ban on trophy hunting as well as the one we signed, but feel our signatures have, in this instance, been obtained fraudulently.
You are working towards a great end but you are ruining the integrity of the cause and of yourself in manipulating people for support in this way.
You have not repsonded to the comments I have made on your Facebook page. I have already asked Change to delete the petition for the reasons set out above. If the petition is not taken down forthwith, I will be writing to all the newspapers and websites that ran the story to highlight the fraudulent manipulation of concerned Beach Boys fans.
I would wish you well with your campaign to ban trophy hunting but only if you can, going forward, conduct it honesty and with intergrity.
Regards,
John
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 8, 2020 8:09:28 GMT -5
Sorry to drag this on. Have just messaged the petition guy via his own website:
Hi Eduardo,
A number of Beach Boys fans are very disappointed that you have changed the title, description, recipient and even the URL of the petition they signed earlier this week to voice their concerns that the band was due to play at the trophy hunters' convention. Their names are now attached to a petition they did not sign.
As a former journalist, I'm sure you understand why they regard this as unethical. I and many others would support a petition calling for a ban on trophy hunting as well as the one we signed, but feel our signatures have, in this instance, been obtained fraudulently.
You are working towards a great end but you are ruining the integrity of the cause and of yourself in manipulating people for support in this way.
You have not repsonded to the comments I have made on your Facebook page. I have already asked Change to delete the petition for the reasons set out above. If the petition is not taken down forthwith, I will be writing to all the newspapers and websites that ran the story to highlight the fraudulent manipulation of concerned Beach Boys fans.
I would wish you well with your campaign to ban trophy hunting but only if you can, going forward, conduct it honesty and with intergrity.
Regards,
John
Bravo!🎈 👍
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Post by g00dvibrations on Feb 8, 2020 8:15:13 GMT -5
Reported it to Change.org and just got a response that it was fine for him to do that since he had posted a petition update....
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Post by Fall Breaks on Feb 8, 2020 8:34:22 GMT -5
Reported it to Change.org and just got a response that it was fine for him to do that since he had posted a petition update.... Begs the question why there is a function for reporting drastically changed content in the first place.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 8, 2020 8:55:29 GMT -5
Reported it to Change.org and just got a response that it was fine for him to do that since he had posted a petition update.... Begs the question why there is a function for reporting drastically changed content in the first place. It might be because with these petitions it is almost a disclaimer for ill-will, retaliation, and improper purpose. It is also because the petitions are not vetted. There is no oversight for proper purpose and motive. This was all of that - rolled into one. And he hates Boris Johnson. Political people only care about power and control - that is his world. Maybe he is angling for a job... Just for starters. People got sucked in. It was a shiny thing, and seductive in that that header photo was his tossing chum in the water, regardless of whether you agree or not. It should have spotlighted an animal not a human. It was click bait. There is a whole world out there that is not mine - but belongs to the disrespected millions who live in a rural setting, who hunt and fish, but who are a huge business with a TV station dedicated to some of their interests, carried by almost every satellite and cable provider, called the Outdoor Channel. It would not exist if there was no recognition that there was a market out there to be connected to. The only way is to keep hounding them for the “recall” of that petition - for the unbridled fraud and deception, that it is. Stay on his case. Thank you John Manning!
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Post by Fall Breaks on Feb 8, 2020 9:12:22 GMT -5
I meant why there is a function for reporting if it's allowed to change the content of the petition as long as you update it (btw, can you really change the content without updating the description? I thought that was the same thing.).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 9:29:22 GMT -5
And he hates Boris Johnson. I don't think he does, actually. Boris has said on facebook in reference to trophy hunting that "We must end this barbaric practice". Plus, Campaign to Ban Trophy Hunting says in their website that "Cross Party Support is a crucial element of our campaign, Zac Goldsmith’s launch of the UK Consultation has the backing of Boris Johnson." On top of that, one of their press releases says that "Other signatories include Stanley Johnson, father of Boris Johnson and who is one of the speakers taking part in the April 13 demonstration." I'm not going to defend what he did regarding the petition, but I find it hard to believe he "hates" Boris when he clearly advocates the ban. Even the said petition mentions Boris merely as the UK Prime Minister to whom the signatures would be sent, not as "villain" or something.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 8, 2020 10:16:01 GMT -5
I suppose it is "America's Band" and not all of America has an issue with trophy hunting. Maybe that's how Mike can be a conservationist but still play music for trophy hunters.
Does every concert have to be some sort of personal statement for or against some constituency? I don't know. Not an excuse but a possible explanation. It is so far a mystery.
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