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Post by dant on May 19, 2024 13:32:12 GMT -5
I would like to post below various musings of the Beach Boys variety. I hope you find them entertaining and interesting to read. I also hope that this could launch one or two interesting discussions.
1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. 2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. 3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. 4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. 5. Online streaming services not having Still Cruisin’, Summer in Paradise, or Stars and Stripes is not acceptable and should be rectified now. 6. The Beach Boys were screwed over by record labels repeatedly, to the point that some awfully good songs are STILL unreleased. 7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. 8. Mike Love is the reason why the band splintered in 1998. The timing of Carl Wilson’s death is an unfortunate coincidence, although he was said to be good at keeping the band together. 9. The best SMiLE mix is the one in my head. Maybe one day I’ll get good enough at engineering to actually attempt to approximate it, though the result of that won’t be anywhere near as good. 10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s.
I hope you find these a fascinating read. I will note that points 3 and 9 arose from my current ambition to be a top music producer someday. I’m currently studying music production at college.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 19, 2024 13:53:43 GMT -5
I would like to post below various musings of the Beach Boys variety. I hope you find them entertaining and interesting to read. I also hope that this could launch one or two interesting discussions. 1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. 2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. 3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. 4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. 5. Online streaming services not having Still Cruisin’, Summer in Paradise, or Stars and Stripes is not acceptable and should be rectified now. 6. The Beach Boys were screwed over by record labels repeatedly, to the point that some awfully good songs are STILL unreleased. 7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. 8. Mike Love is the reason why the band splintered in 1998. The timing of Carl Wilson’s death is an unfortunate coincidence, although he was said to be good at keeping the band together. 9. The best SMiLE mix is the one in my head. Maybe one day I’ll get good enough at engineering to actually attempt to approximate it, though the result of that won’t be anywhere near as good. 10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s. I hope you find these a fascinating read. I will note that points 3 and 9 arose from my current ambition to be a top music producer someday. I’m currently studying music production at college. 1. Brian would never accept that as a possibility. Too much of a perfectionist, back then. 2. Agree 3. Good Luck pursuing that dream 4. Murry screwed him over to the point of leaving. David singing on record? See Party answer. In Carl’s shadow? Another Murry move. 5. Agree. 6. Agree with Capitol and Reprise, but they got to screw over CBS/Caribou. 7. Not a waste when your band members are out on the road while Brian is home writing and recording. 8. It only splintered with Al not touring. Brian wasn’t going to do it, but Mike, Bruce and David continued on. 9. I bet it is. My best Smile is on a playlist here at home. 10. Sexist, huh? Hell, at least Brian was very impressed with Carol Kaye. Carl never gave a second thought to hiring Toni Tennille as a backing band member.
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 19, 2024 19:03:14 GMT -5
I like Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends better than any version of Smile.
I think Carl deserves to be spoken of as one of the finest original-generation surf guitarists, a step down from Dick Dale and Nokie Edwards but a match for anyone else. And he did have a distinctive and unique touch.
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Post by KenWorthing on May 20, 2024 6:51:36 GMT -5
I would like to post below various musings of the Beach Boys variety. I hope you find them entertaining and interesting to read. I also hope that this could launch one or two interesting discussions. 1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. I don't think it matters that the released 'Party' is fake. Good job at the time, well done.2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. Nope. Great for the Disco times we were living in back then, but IMHO .. truly dreadful.3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. Have at it! Good luck.4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. I think David should have more recognition now for his input in the early days, also baring in mind that David isn't a Wilson, I wouldn't have said that he was in Carl's shadow.5. Online streaming services not having Still Cruisin’, Summer in Paradise, or Stars and Stripes is not acceptable and should be rectified now. Agreed.6. The Beach Boys were screwed over by record labels repeatedly, to the point that some awfully good songs are STILL unreleased. Not so sure. The BB's were picking the songs for the next album (whatever that may be, 'Sunflower' comes to mind) .. so some songs were .. err .. not that good. Not surprising that the label turned several itirations of that album down.7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. Agreed.8. Mike Love is the reason why the band splintered in 1998. The timing of Carl Wilson’s death is an unfortunate coincidence, although he was said to be good at keeping the band together. Agreed.9. The best SMiLE mix is the one in my head. Maybe one day I’ll get good enough at engineering to actually attempt to approximate it, though the result of that won’t be anywhere near as good. Agreed.10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s. Agreed, but not recognised at the time.I hope you find these a fascinating read. I will note that points 3 and 9 arose from my current ambition to be a top music producer someday. I’m currently studying music production at college. Keep going. Don't give up. Thank you for your post (it forced me to reply).
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Post by AGD on May 20, 2024 8:50:20 GMT -5
I would like to post below various musings of the Beach Boys variety. I hope you find them entertaining and interesting to read. I also hope that this could launch one or two interesting discussions. 1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. 2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. 3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. 4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. 5. Online streaming services not having Still Cruisin’, Summer in Paradise, or Stars and Stripes is not acceptable and should be rectified now. 6. The Beach Boys were screwed over by record labels repeatedly, to the point that some awfully good songs are STILL unreleased. 7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. 8. Mike Love is the reason why the band splintered in 1998. The timing of Carl Wilson’s death is an unfortunate coincidence, although he was said to be good at keeping the band together. 9. The best SMiLE mix is the one in my head. Maybe one day I’ll get good enough at engineering to actually attempt to approximate it, though the result of that won’t be anywhere near as good. 10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s. I hope you find these a fascinating read. I will note that points 3 and 9 arose from my current ambition to be a top music producer someday. I’m currently studying music production at college. Utter nonsense. Did Brian ever say he wanted two guitars, a bass, a drummer "but none of them female"? That's down to the industry, not a choice: to my best knowledge, CK was the only female session player in LA in the early 60s, and Brian used her a lot, not because she was a girl but becaue she was pretty much the best there was. By your criteria, every single band that recorded in LA in the early/mid sixties was sexist. As for David not being given any leads, or vocal parts at all... maybe because his voice was breaking? Or maybe because of Murry?
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Post by Awesoman on May 20, 2024 9:06:01 GMT -5
Didn't Marks handle one of the leads to their "Summertime Blues" cover...?
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Post by dauber on May 20, 2024 11:46:57 GMT -5
Didn't Marks handle one of the leads to their "Summertime Blues" cover...? Y'know...that's what everybody says, but the voice-over take announcement on the session tape says "with Carl and Ni[c]k" -- could be that the engineer guy misspoke though.
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Post by dauber on May 20, 2024 11:48:43 GMT -5
BTW, the most recently released episode of Tune X Podcast is about Beach Boys hot takes. (We've since recorded a new episode, but that won't be out until June.)
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sloopjohnb
Historian / Researcher
Posts: 253
Likes: 408
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Post by sloopjohnb on May 20, 2024 12:12:20 GMT -5
Yeah, it's Carl Wilson and Nick Venet singing the harmony lead on Summertime Blues - no David Marks singing, as on the rest of the album. The Capitol engineer who slates it is named David, which is what started the confusion.
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Post by gerry on May 20, 2024 12:59:53 GMT -5
I would like to post below various musings of the Beach Boys variety. I hope you find them entertaining and interesting to read. I also hope that this could launch one or two interesting discussions. 1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. 2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. 3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. 4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. 5. Online streaming services not having Still Cruisin’, Summer in Paradise, or Stars and Stripes is not acceptable and should be rectified now. 6. The Beach Boys were screwed over by record labels repeatedly, to the point that some awfully good songs are STILL unreleased. 7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. 8. Mike Love is the reason why the band splintered in 1998. The timing of Carl Wilson’s death is an unfortunate coincidence, although he was said to be good at keeping the band together. 9. The best SMiLE mix is the one in my head. Maybe one day I’ll get good enough at engineering to actually attempt to approximate it, though the result of that won’t be anywhere near as good. 10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s. I hope you find these a fascinating read. I will note that points 3 and 9 arose from my current ambition to be a top music producer someday. I’m currently studying music production at college. This stuff reminds me of Larry King in USA Today: "If I had to pick a color my favorite would be ....yellow"
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danlega
Grommet
Posts: 35
Likes: 48
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Post by danlega on May 20, 2024 21:28:14 GMT -5
Yeah, it's Carl Wilson and Nick Venet singing the harmony lead on Summertime Blues - no David Marks singing, as on the rest of the album. The Capitol engineer who slates it is named David, which is what started the confusion. Well, I never heard of an engineer named David, so that's not where my confusion came from. I'm not really anywhere near as good as probably most of you are at picking out exactly who is singing what -- but I remember listening to "Summertime Blues" and thinking "Gee, that doesn't sound like one of the Beach Boys, so maybe it's David?" This is the first time I've heard that Nick Venet sang on a Beach Boys song! Were there any other instances of him singing with them?! Or did he ever sing on any other non-Beach Boys recordings? Love and merci, Dan Lega
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Post by lonelysummer on May 21, 2024 1:10:47 GMT -5
I never knew there was a Carl lead vocal before Pom Pom Play Girl. Of course, "they" used to say Girl Don't Tell Me was his first.
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Post by dant on May 21, 2024 7:31:38 GMT -5
Yeah, it's Carl Wilson and Nick Venet singing the harmony lead on Summertime Blues - no David Marks singing, as on the rest of the album. The Capitol engineer who slates it is named David, which is what started the confusion. Well, I never heard of an engineer named David, so that's not where my confusion came from. I'm not really anywhere near as good as probably most of you are at picking out exactly who is singing what -- but I remember listening to "Summertime Blues" and thinking "Gee, that doesn't sound like one of the Beach Boys, so maybe it's David?" This is the first time I've heard that Nick Venet sang on a Beach Boys song! Were there any other instances of him singing with them?! Or did he ever sing on any other non-Beach Boys recordings? Love and merci, Dan Lega But you might one day hear about an engineer called Dan T. 😏
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mikelover
Grommet
Posts: 6
Likes: 4
Favorite Album: Love You, Surf's Up, Friends, Smiley Smile...
Member is Online
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Post by mikelover on May 21, 2024 8:01:26 GMT -5
I don't know how hot a take this is but 15 Big Ones is my favourite Beach Boys album, just ahead of Surf's Up and Friends.
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Post by gerry on May 21, 2024 10:41:41 GMT -5
not so much a hot take as a head scratcher.
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on May 21, 2024 11:45:16 GMT -5
Here’s a lukewarm take: The recent Beach Boys book is not much more than a glorified version of the book in the Made in California box set.
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Post by jds on May 21, 2024 13:57:27 GMT -5
Smile never actually cohered as an album concept in a way that was communicated to the group, so there was nothing about the album project as a whole for the group to fight about and few in the group understood Smiley Smile as "replacing" anything. In as much as there were a lot of unused tracks left over, this was in no way atypical of Brian's creative process in any way but degree. There was never any confrontation within the group about Brian changing course, which was his singular prerogative as the group's creative director. Any tensions within the group from the time derived from Brian's drug use and increasingly erratic behavior. Michael Vosse, et al. had no insight into how the group functioned and projected their disappointments with Brian onto the group, as fans have continued to do in the decades since.
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Post by dant on May 21, 2024 14:24:24 GMT -5
Smile never actually cohered as an album concept in a way that was communicated to the group, so there was nothing about the album project as a whole for the group to fight about and few in the group understood Smiley Smile as "replacing" anything. In as much as there were a lot of unused tracks left over, this was in no way atypical of Brian's creative process in any way but degree. There was never any confrontation within the group about Brian changing course, which was his singular prerogative as the group's creative director. Any tensions within the group from the time derived from Brian's drug use and increasingly erratic behavior. Michael Vosse, et al. had no insight into how the group functioned and projected their disappointments with Brian onto the group, as fans have continued to do in the decades since. If only Brian had today’s recording technology back then, he might have finished SMiLE. As groundbreaking as 60s recording techniques such as the Wall of Sound and double tracking were, they’re kind of ruined for me by the fact that I could duplicate them easily on a Digital Audio Workstation. Such is the inevitable march of technological progress.
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Post by Matt H on May 21, 2024 14:28:03 GMT -5
Stars and Stripes is on iTunes and Spotify.
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Post by Matt H on May 21, 2024 14:34:43 GMT -5
It is ridiculous that The Beach Boys official page does not have the following original albums listed:
- 15 Big Ones
- Still Cruisin'
- Summer In Paradise
- Stars and Stripes Vol 1.
But does have the following listed:
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Post by jds on May 21, 2024 14:52:36 GMT -5
I don't think Brian wanted to finish Smile because in 1966/67 he was never more than ambivalent at best about his work product for the album. I disagree with the idea that he couldn't put the metaphorical legos together because of technological limitations -- I think he was perfectly capable of imagining how sections would sound together without splicing tape -- I just don't believe he thought anything he produced sounded like songs he could remain excited about. He's fiddling with track sections for months on end in an attempt to revive and sustain his own interest, if anything.
Eventually fiddling with "Da Da" lead him on a circuitous path to a simplified/primitivist approach that he could get excited about. It was a long, winding, and arguably wasteful journey that lead him to an album he liked, or at least felt at the time that he could live with. He and the group seem to be excited enough about the Smiley aesthetic to apply it liberally to the group's songbook during the Lei'd in Hawaii concerts/sessions.
That's it, really.
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Post by dant on May 21, 2024 15:24:23 GMT -5
Note that if modern tech were used, it would not take over a year to complete an album. That’s just tape splicing delays, and other pre-digital issues.
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Post by jds on May 21, 2024 15:53:06 GMT -5
Editing isn't a problem with Smile; an abundance of disparate themes, inchoate song structures and an over-willingness to discard or remake work product in pursuit of its creator's increasingly evasive aesthetic satisfaction is the problem with Smile.
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Post by dant on May 21, 2024 16:08:24 GMT -5
Editing isn't a problem with Smile; an abundance of disparate themes, inchoate song structures and an over-willingness to discard or remake work product in pursuit of its creator's increasingly evasive aesthetic satisfaction is the problem with Smile. Which is exacerbated by the fact that all these ideas are on lots of different spools of tape. Give me access to a LA studio, and I could remake SMiLE in a few months at most. I can cheat using stuff that wasn’t there in the 60s, such as DAWs and virtual instruments. No need for the Wrecking Crew, when I have a virtual orchestra at my fingertips.
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 232
Likes: 247
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Post by rjm on May 21, 2024 20:52:11 GMT -5
Along the lines of Brian’s possible ambivalence towards SMiLE, I have this hot take that came to me after seeing Brian and the BW Band play Pet Sounds during that short 40th anniversary tour in 2006 after having seen several SMiLE shows.
Except for the work they did on Surf’s Up and H&V, Brian and Van Dyke didn’t have the chemistry that Brian and Tony Asher had. Pet Sounds was, for the most part, much better than the work from SMiLE.
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