mikelover
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Favorite Album: Love You, Surf's Up, Friends, Smiley Smile...
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Post by mikelover on May 22, 2024 2:43:08 GMT -5
Along the lines of Brian’s possible ambivalence towards SMiLE, I have this hot take that came to me after seeing Brian and the BW Band play Pet Sounds during that short 40th anniversary tour in 2006 after having seen several SMiLE shows. Except for the work they did on Surf’s Up and H&V, Brian and Van Dyke didn’t have the chemistry that Brian and Tony Asher had. Pet Sounds was, for the most part, much better than the work from SMiLE. Or is Pet Sounds only better because it's a complete, finished work? I like a lot of the individual Smile songs to many on Pet Sounds but not so much when accounting for the album, whether it's Smile Sessions or the millions of fan compilations, or even my own. I don't tend to listen to BWPS as it doesn't have that Beach Boys vocal blend and the overall production is quite homogenous and lacks the same charm as the '60s equivalents. I think Smile could have done justice to Pet Sounds but that just might be my strange taste, Smiley Smile tops Pet Sounds in how much I enjoy listening to it.
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Post by jds on May 22, 2024 5:29:50 GMT -5
No lie, my first idea for a hot take was "Van Dyke Parks only ranks above Eugene Landy in terms of major Brian Wilson collaborators."
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Brigantics
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Post by Brigantics on May 22, 2024 6:08:05 GMT -5
I think the only truly hot take I have is that Smiley Smile is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been.
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Post by AGD on May 22, 2024 6:24:04 GMT -5
Here's mine: from time to time, The Beach Boys deserve the fans they get.
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Post by gerry on May 22, 2024 8:59:16 GMT -5
Here's mine: from time to time, The Beach Boys deserve the fans they get. Best hot take yet
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barto2
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Post by barto2 on May 22, 2024 11:13:15 GMT -5
Lots of smile hot takes so I'll add my own:
The best version of smile that's out there is the recording of this live performance:
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 22, 2024 12:03:57 GMT -5
I think the only truly hot take I have is that Smiley Smile is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been. 100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals.
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 22, 2024 12:04:26 GMT -5
Here's mine: from time to time, The Beach Boys deserve the fans they get. lol
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Post by longtime lurker on May 22, 2024 18:26:22 GMT -5
I think the only truly hot take I have is that Smiley Smile is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been. 100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals. "SS is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? "spurious grandiosity" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Sorry, not sorry...I cannot let these statements slide by without response. I am certainly aware there's been loads of revisionist thinking and reevaluation when it comes to the Smile album, but facts are facts: When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion).
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mikelover
Grommet
Posts: 11
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Favorite Album: Love You, Surf's Up, Friends, Smiley Smile...
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Post by mikelover on May 22, 2024 18:49:05 GMT -5
100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals. "When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion). In my humble opinion, Whistle In is a better closer than Surf's Up ever could have been.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 22, 2024 19:27:58 GMT -5
100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals. "SS is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? "spurious grandiosity" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Sorry, not sorry...I cannot let these statements slide by without response. I am certainly aware there's been loads of revisionist thinking and reevaluation when it comes to the Smile album, but facts are facts: When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion). For me, the only reason Smiley Smile is a better album is because it is a fully realized released album, whereas Smile is bunch of finished/unfinished songs that was locked away for 50+ years.
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 22, 2024 19:58:19 GMT -5
100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals. "SS is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? "spurious grandiosity" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Sorry, not sorry...I cannot let these statements slide by without response. I am certainly aware there's been loads of revisionist thinking and reevaluation when it comes to the Smile album, but facts are facts: When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion). Well, I much prefer the Smiley version of "Wonderful" to the Smile version. That Carl vocal is haunting, I love the bridge, and it's also my favorite permutation of the lyrics. I don't agree that the pieces you list are "trifles." They just are what they are, which is mesmerising little musical ideas. As for Surf's Up, yes it's marvelous, but no one alive knows what it was originally supposed to sound like from "dove nested towers" on. Maybe no one ever knew.
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Brigantics
Grommet
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Favorite Album: Van der Graaf Generator - Godbluff
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Post by Brigantics on May 22, 2024 20:17:06 GMT -5
100% agree Some of the surviving Smile material has a certain level of spurious grandiosity that Smiley, Wild Honey, and Friends downplay in favor of the sheer brilliance of the musical fundamentals. "SS is a better album than a finished Smile in 1967 could've ever been" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? "spurious grandiosity" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Sorry, not sorry...I cannot let these statements slide by without response. I am certainly aware there's been loads of revisionist thinking and reevaluation when it comes to the Smile album, but facts are facts: When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion). Comparing the Cantina mix of H&V to the Smiley version is sacrilege in my opinion... Brian got it perfect on release. The Cantina version always felt disjointed and not cohesive, which is exactly why I prefer Smiley Smile over a hypothetical Smile. The whole nature of the Smile recordings were to be disjointed, and while there are amazing moments (Cabinessence and Surf's Up to be specific), it could never compete with the groundbreaking and unified sound Smiley has. That's just my two cents.
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danlega
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Post by danlega on May 22, 2024 20:52:59 GMT -5
Wow. Totally disagree with RJM's and JDS's takes on SMiLE. Mine are pretty much the polar opposite. In short, I think Brian loved the SMiLE music and Van Dyke's lyrics, and I think it was an albatross he had to carry for 37 years. I believe even Marilyn said some of the Boys didn't support Brian and SMiLE. I do believe Brian's mental problems were a definite part of his not finishing SMiLE, but I also think there is truth to the stories that Mike and perhaps others didn't think much of SMiLE and helped fuel Brian's abandonment of the project.
Love and merci, Dan Lega
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Post by jds on May 22, 2024 22:32:50 GMT -5
Certain diehards have met resistance to their claims that the group didn't support Smile as it became apparent that no documentary evidence of the group not supporting Smile exists. In fact, the available documentary evidence suggests that the group, owing to their extensive schedule and explicit arrangement with Brian, were disengaged from the creative process but made themselves available for whatever Brian wanted in 1966/67. Some of those aforementioned diehards have been reduced to asserting their claims through unsourced innuendos in their books out of the misguided notion that Brian Wilson couldn't fail, but could only be failed.
When Brian maintained that the Smile material wasn't gelling with his vision for the group -- as he did, consistently, for thirty years -- people should have just taken him at his word. This isn't meant to denigrate the products of the Smile sessions, which represent some of Brian Wilson's best and most fascinating studio work and should have been released in some form by mid-1967 -- but it was Brian Wilson's decision alone to put it all in a can.
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Post by Micha on May 23, 2024 4:07:00 GMT -5
"When you put the completed (or even partially completed) Smile tracks next to the songs done for Smiley Smile, there is NO comparison. Yes, the redone Wind Chimes is good, but c'mon now....are you honestly going to say that Worms, Cabinessence, Child..., Surf's Up, the Cantina version of H&V, and Prayer are INFERIOR to trifles like Gettin' Hungry, Whistle In, Fall Breaks, etc?? That the Smiley Smile version of Wonderful gets within a MILLION MILES of the Smile original?? Somebody needs to stand up for objective truth in 2024 America...No, Smiley Smile (and btw I actually LIKE that album) is not and never shall be a better album than Smile (even though, obviously, the latter was never brought to completion). In my humble opinion, Whistle In is a better closer than Surf's Up ever could have been. For an album called either SMiLE or Smiley Smile I agree with you.
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Post by Micha on May 23, 2024 4:14:18 GMT -5
Certain diehards have met resistance to their claims that the group didn't support Smile as it became apparent that no documentary evidence of the group not supporting Smile exists. In fact, the available documentary evidence suggests that the group, owing to their extensive schedule and explicit arrangement with Brian, were disengaged from the creative process but made themselves available for whatever Brian wanted in 1966/67. Some of those aforementioned diehards have been reduced to asserting their claims through unsourced innuendos in their books out of the misguided notion that Brian Wilson couldn't fail, but could only be failed. When Brian maintained that the Smile material wasn't gelling with his vision for the group -- as he did, consistently, for thirty years -- people should have just taken him at his word. This isn't meant to denigrate the products of the Smile sessions, which represent some of Brian Wilson's best and most fascinating studio work and should have been released in some form by mid-1967 -- but it was Brian Wilson's decision alone to put it all in a can. I just had a new thought, new for me at least. The Jules Siegel piece reports pretty weird behaviour by Brian. Maybe what was perceived as the guys not supporting the SMiLE music was in fact the behaviour of their leader and most important member making them feel uneasy and seemingly unsupportive?
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Post by Cam Mott on May 24, 2024 8:54:06 GMT -5
It is a fact, supported by the cues and slates and notes and contracts, that Brian knew what he was doing for what song and where it was to fit in that song every time he went in to the studio during SMiLE.
He would edit and improvise in the studio with intention but still for the song and bit he intended.
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rjm
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Post by rjm on May 24, 2024 12:29:18 GMT -5
Along the lines of Brian’s possible ambivalence towards SMiLE, I have this hot take that came to me after seeing Brian and the BW Band play Pet Sounds during that short 40th anniversary tour in 2006 after having seen several SMiLE shows. Except for the work they did on Surf’s Up and H&V, Brian and Van Dyke didn’t have the chemistry that Brian and Tony Asher had. Pet Sounds was, for the most part, much better than the work from SMiLE. Or is Pet Sounds only better because it's a complete, finished work? I like a lot of the individual Smile songs to many on Pet Sounds but not so much when accounting for the album, whether it's Smile Sessions or the millions of fan compilations, or even my own. I don't tend to listen to BWPS as it doesn't have that Beach Boys vocal blend and the overall production is quite homogenous and lacks the same charm as the '60s equivalents. I think Smile could have done justice to Pet Sounds but that just might be my strange taste, Smiley Smile tops Pet Sounds in how much I enjoy listening to it. It’s the heart connection. Van Dyke was very creative with music and lyrics and yes, “Surf’s Up” is a piece for the ages. But, Pet Sounds takes complicated emotions and feelings and makes them succinct and accessible. That’s why Pet Sounds is as beloved as it is. SMiLE sometimes comes off as too clever for its own good.
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Post by jk on May 24, 2024 12:40:29 GMT -5
Or is Pet Sounds only better because it's a complete, finished work? I like a lot of the individual Smile songs to many on Pet Sounds but not so much when accounting for the album, whether it's Smile Sessions or the millions of fan compilations, or even my own. I don't tend to listen to BWPS as it doesn't have that Beach Boys vocal blend and the overall production is quite homogenous and lacks the same charm as the '60s equivalents. I think Smile could have done justice to Pet Sounds but that just might be my strange taste, Smiley Smile tops Pet Sounds in how much I enjoy listening to it. It’s the heart connection. Van Dyke was very creative with music and lyrics and yes, “Surf’s Up” is a piece for the ages. But, Pet Sounds takes complicated emotions and feelings and makes them succinct and accessible. That’s why Pet Sounds is as beloved as it is. SMiLE sometimes comes off as too clever for its own good. There's definitely something in that. SMiLE has an esoteric side that is utterly foreign to Pet Sounds. Very nicely put, rjm.
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Post by Emdeeh on May 24, 2024 16:24:25 GMT -5
My hot take (should not be a surprse): I like a lot of BB albums more than Pet Sounds, including the Smile Sessions. I also freely acknowledge PS' importance and influence. Your mileage may vary and most likely will.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on May 24, 2024 17:38:36 GMT -5
A lot of Pet Sounds melodies are recycled. WIBN bridge sounds like both Don't Talk and Caroline No first verses. Don't talk "listen listen listen" sounds like IJWMFTT chorus. WIBN "happy times together we" sounds like God Only Knows bridge Carl's part. Here Today chorus sounds like WIBN sax riff. That's Not Me verse sounds like Santa's Beard verse. In a bigger stretch, God Only Knows verse up until "you never need" sounds like a better written Please Let Me Wonder. My biggest beef with Pet Sounds are the 2 instrumental fillers. Still the best Beach Boys album though.
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danlega
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Post by danlega on May 25, 2024 12:08:39 GMT -5
It’s the heart connection. Van Dyke was very creative with music and lyrics and yes, “Surf’s Up” is a piece for the ages. But, Pet Sounds takes complicated emotions and feelings and makes them succinct and accessible. That’s why Pet Sounds is as beloved as it is. SMiLE sometimes comes off as too clever for its own good. There's definitely something in that. SMiLE has an esoteric side that is utterly foreign to Pet Sounds. Very nicely put, rjm. Everybody is different. To each his own. However, SMiLE never felt "too clever for its own good" to me. I always thought it was utterly brilliant stuff!
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west
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Post by west on May 25, 2024 13:02:59 GMT -5
Here's one... if it weren't for all the statements Brian has made, I never would've connected 'Rubber Soul' and 'Pet Sounds' together. Aside from him wanting to make an album that was 'a gas' and have no filler in it, I don't really see much else there connecting the two works.
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Post by dant on May 25, 2024 13:47:24 GMT -5
Here’s some brief opinions I have of the studio albums:
1. Surfin’ Safari: Basic, but a good place to start 2. Surfin’ USA: A good step up, but still primitive 3. Surfer Girl: Best one yet, especially the ballads 4. Little Deuce Coupe: Understandably Lazy (It was released only three weeks after #3) 5. Shut Down Vol 2: A load of good songs ruined by obvious filler 6. All Summer Long: So good, it makes me want to move to California 7. Beach Boys Christmas: Festive fun from the Surfin’ gods 8. Beach Boys Today: Wonderful album, shame about the “Big Daddy” 9. Summer Days & Summer Nights: The pinnacle of the “fun in the sun” era 10. Beach Boys Party: Fascinating covers and fun overdubs 11. Pet Sounds: Greatest album ever released 12. SMiLE: Greatest Album never released 13. Smiley Smile: A shadow of what was promised, but still great 14. Wild Honey: The joyous combination of soulful vocals and a detuned piano 15. Friends: A terrific album that is victim of political circumstance 16. 20/20: Drugs, cultists, and sleeping in parks: a winning combination 17. Sunflower: What sweet dreams are made of 18. Surf’s Up: The Yin to #17’s Yang 19. Carl & The Passions: So Tough: The boys rock out South African style 20. Holland: Special Offer: Free acidhead fairy tale with every purchase of this bliss 21. 15 Big Ones: More like 15 ones of variable, but usually ok quality 22. Beach Boys Love You: And I love them back just for this one 23: Adult Child: Big band jazz meets acid 24: Merry Christmas: Christmas, the cheesy 70s way 25: MIU Album: Surfin’, the cheesy 70s way 26: LA Light Album: 25% crazy disco stuff, 75% normal songs 27: Keepin’ The Summer Alive: A 60s band creates a cheesy 70s sound in the 80s 28: Beach Boys ‘85: The “let’s impersonate the Culture Club” record, mostly ok 29: Still Cruisin’: The beginning of the end… 30: Summer In Paradise: Processed rubbish with some nuggets of gold 31: Stars N Stripes: The boys go Nashville, and nobody cares 32: That’s Why God Made The Radio: A fine endnote to a fantastic career
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