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Post by AGD on May 29, 2024 13:46:07 GMT -5
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. Love You certainly isn't a perfect album, but IMO it's an infinitely stronger and more emotionally satisfying piece of work than Wild Honey. There is a cult following for Love You - some see it as Brian's last great work with the group. There's been talk the last few years (rumours, really, more than anything) about a box set devoted to that whole Love You/Adult Child/MIU era. Now with those years being barely mentioned in the book or the documentary, I suspect we've seen the end of the era-specific box sets. Which is no great loss, I guess. If Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor failed to convert any doubters, I can't see a Love You box doing any better. Evidently you've not read the Record Collector BB special.
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Post by Mikie on May 29, 2024 15:27:03 GMT -5
There is a cult following for Love You - some see it as Brian's last great work with the group. There's been talk the last few years (rumours, really, more than anything) about a box set devoted to that whole Love You/Adult Child/MIU era. Now with those years being barely mentioned in the book or the documentary, I suspect we've seen the end of the era-specific box sets. Which is no great loss, I guess. If Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor failed to convert any doubters, I can't see a Love You box doing any better. Evidently you've not read the Record Collector BB special. I haven't read the Record Collector special either. What did it say regarding new box sets?
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Post by longtime lurker on May 29, 2024 16:14:36 GMT -5
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. Love You certainly isn't a perfect album, but IMO it's an infinitely stronger and more emotionally satisfying piece of work than Wild Honey. There is a cult following for Love You - some see it as Brian's last great work with the group. There's been talk the last few years (rumours, really, more than anything) about a box set devoted to that whole Love You/Adult Child/MIU era. Now with those years being barely mentioned in the book or the documentary, I suspect we've seen the end of the era-specific box sets. Which is no great loss, I guess. If Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor failed to convert any doubters, I can't see a Love You box doing any better. Actually, and sorry but I cannot recall precisely on what EH thread I saw it on, there ARE definite plans to do a box set covering that particular period. I have no idea regarding specifics (tracklist, number of disc's, etc), but there will be at least one (and possibly more) late 70s BB collection coming our way in the next few years.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 29, 2024 21:43:38 GMT -5
There is a cult following for Love You - some see it as Brian's last great work with the group. There's been talk the last few years (rumours, really, more than anything) about a box set devoted to that whole Love You/Adult Child/MIU era. Now with those years being barely mentioned in the book or the documentary, I suspect we've seen the end of the era-specific box sets. Which is no great loss, I guess. If Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor failed to convert any doubters, I can't see a Love You box doing any better. Evidently you've not read the Record Collector BB special. It's not available yet where I live. Probably not till late June or July.
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barto2
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 54
Likes: 88
Member is Online
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Post by barto2 on May 30, 2024 9:02:53 GMT -5
Ok I'll bite. Was there a specific reference to a new box set?
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Post by smash em now on May 31, 2024 21:43:52 GMT -5
Hot take: Half of Stars and Stripes is pretty good! But they didn't do themselves any favors with the tracklist, putting most of the good stuff at the end.
I think Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun, Sloop John B, I Can Hear Music and Caroline No are the most successful. Toby Keith is also pretty good on Be True To Your School. The rest of the uptempo songs are pretty unlistenable though.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 1, 2024 1:29:39 GMT -5
Hot take: Half of Stars and Stripes is pretty good! But they didn't do themselves any favors with the tracklist, putting most of the good stuff at the end. I think Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun, Sloop John B, I Can Hear Music and Caroline No are the most successful. Toby Keith is also pretty good on Be True To Your School. The rest of the uptempo songs are pretty unlistenable though. Okay, I agree with most of that. I guess I need to give it another listen. I had it on cassette, and it broke the last time I played it.
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Post by E on Jun 1, 2024 6:33:14 GMT -5
Hot take: Half of Stars and Stripes is pretty good! But they didn't do themselves any favors with the tracklist, putting most of the good stuff at the end. I think Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun, Sloop John B, I Can Hear Music and Caroline No are the most successful. Toby Keith is also pretty good on Be True To Your School. The rest of the uptempo songs are pretty unlistenable though. I agree with half of that. Half of half the album is decent - 409, Warmth of the Sun, Caroline No - and I like In My Room
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Post by Micha on Jun 2, 2024 7:21:10 GMT -5
My personal hot take: The Wild Honey album severely lacks driving drums. And bridge sections. Great melodies and lyrics, but not produced to their full potential. Great singing performances too.
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mikelover
Grommet
Posts: 11
Likes: 6
Favorite Album: Love You, Surf's Up, Friends, Smiley Smile...
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Post by mikelover on Jun 4, 2024 3:55:20 GMT -5
My Wild Honey hot take: the songs don't pair well at all for me. The individual tracks are great by themselves but the album isn't a very satisfying listen, it's like listening to a compilation. The order the songs were placed in doesn't please my ears.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 4, 2024 4:30:01 GMT -5
My hot take is that Brian Wilson introduced the compositional technique of counterpoint into rock music in a way that has not been bettered since.
As counterpoint has arguably been considered the highest form of composition since the Western Art Music began in the 12th century, this automatically makes The Beach Boys the greatest rock act ever.
It is further posited that were you to travel back in time and play JS Bach every example of rock music, he would agree with my assertion. It is nice that the hypothetical Bach has taken the time to back up my bold claim. Thank you my powdered wigged friend!
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ryankc
Kahuna
Posts: 109
Likes: 183
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Post by ryankc on Jun 4, 2024 22:17:16 GMT -5
Here we go: - Most of their discography is consistently inconsistent; even their 1960s albums
- The Beach Boys should have broken up by 1970, if only for each member's mental health
- Sunflower is the last, true cohesive album the group made as a band, rather than as a collection of factions
- The Beach Boys have been a brand since Endless Summer
- Jack Rieley helped the band when they needed it, while also being a con artist
- Carl singing Surf's Up has always sounded off to me and I hardly listen to that version
- Mike gets unfairly criticized by fans on many things. It wouldn't be The Beach Boys without Mike
- There are other things that Mike has said or done that unfortunately reinforces his bad reputation
- The Wilson Brothers issues seem to be forgiven/forgotten by fans due to the fact that Murry was their father
- Brian's history of passive agressiveness and manipulation are forgiven by fans due to his mental illness
- Dennis, for all his charm and music, was not a great person
- Carl, despite being a great singer/guitarist/producer, was not a great songwriter
- Al's history of persnicketiness seems to have been forgotten by some fans once he joined Brian on tour
- Kokomo is a good song but let the dime store Margaritaville idea die already, Mike
- Paley Sessions and Sweet Insanity are better than anything Brian has recorded since
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 5, 2024 14:18:03 GMT -5
Here we go: - Most of their discography is consistently inconsistent; even their 1960s albums THIS IS TRUE
- The Beach Boys should have broken up by 1970, if only for each member's mental health SO WHAT WOULD THEY DO INSTEAD? SOLO CAREERS?
- Sunflower is the last, true cohesive album the group made as a band, rather than as a collection of factions I SUBMIT THE BEACH BOYS 1985
- The Beach Boys have been a brand since Endless Summer TRUE
- Jack Rieley helped the band when they needed it, while also being a con artist TRUE
- Carl singing Surf's Up has always sounded off to me and I hardly listen to that version THAT'S MY FAVORITE VERSION
- Mike gets unfairly criticized by fans on many things. It wouldn't be The Beach Boys without Mike TRUE
- There are other things that Mike has said or done that unfortunately reinforces his bad reputation TRUE
- The Wilson Brothers issues seem to be forgiven/forgotten by fans due to the fact that Murry was their father TRUE
- Brian's history of passive agressiveness and manipulation are forgiven by fans due to his mental illness TRUE
- Dennis, for all his charm and music, was not a great person YES AND NO; SHOULD I GIVE DETAILS?
- Carl, despite being a great singer/guitarist/producer, was not a great songwriter I LOVE NEARLY EVERYTHING CARL WROTE
- Al's history of persnicketiness seems to have been forgotten by some fans once he joined Brian on tour NO OPINION
- Kokomo is a good song but let the dime store Margaritaville idea die already, Mike LOL
- Paley Sessions and Sweet Insanity are better than anything Brian has recorded since UNRELEASED MUSIC IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN WHAT THE BOYS/BRIAN RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC.
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ryankc
Kahuna
Posts: 109
Likes: 183
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Post by ryankc on Jun 5, 2024 17:53:42 GMT -5
Here we go: - Most of their discography is consistently inconsistent; even their 1960s albums THIS IS TRUE
- The Beach Boys should have broken up by 1970, if only for each member's mental health SO WHAT WOULD THEY DO INSTEAD? SOLO CAREERS?
- Sunflower is the last, true cohesive album the group made as a band, rather than as a collection of factions I SUBMIT THE BEACH BOYS 1985
- The Beach Boys have been a brand since Endless Summer TRUE
- Jack Rieley helped the band when they needed it, while also being a con artist TRUE
- Carl singing Surf's Up has always sounded off to me and I hardly listen to that version THAT'S MY FAVORITE VERSION
- Mike gets unfairly criticized by fans on many things. It wouldn't be The Beach Boys without Mike TRUE
- There are other things that Mike has said or done that unfortunately reinforces his bad reputation TRUE
- The Wilson Brothers issues seem to be forgiven/forgotten by fans due to the fact that Murry was their father TRUE
- Brian's history of passive agressiveness and manipulation are forgiven by fans due to his mental illness TRUE
- Dennis, for all his charm and music, was not a great person YES AND NO; SHOULD I GIVE DETAILS?
- Carl, despite being a great singer/guitarist/producer, was not a great songwriter I LOVE NEARLY EVERYTHING CARL WROTE
- Al's history of persnicketiness seems to have been forgotten by some fans once he joined Brian on tour NO OPINION
- Kokomo is a good song but let the dime store Margaritaville idea die already, Mike LOL
- Paley Sessions and Sweet Insanity are better than anything Brian has recorded since UNRELEASED MUSIC IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN WHAT THE BOYS/BRIAN RELEASE TO THE PUBLIC.
I'm not sure what they should have done instead, I just think the group was so dysfunctional by that point, they probably could have used a break. I understand the need for income kept them on the road. As for BB85, it is much more of a group album than their previous entries, but I don't think a geniune cohesiveness was present. From what I've read from Steve Levine, I think he encountered that problem, too. He did the best he could do, though, in that situation. TWGMTR is like that to me as well. On the surface, it sounds like they are back and firing on all cylinders, but reading more on the making of the album, it doesn't seem like a true group effort.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 6, 2024 1:29:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure what they should have done instead, I just think the group was so dysfunctional by that point, they probably could have used a break. I understand the need for income kept them on the road. As for BB85, it is much more of a group album than their previous entries, but I don't think a geniune cohesiveness was present. From what I've read from Steve Levine, I think he encountered that problem, too. He did the best he could do, though, in that situation. TWGMTR is like that to me as well. On the surface, it sounds like they are back and firing on all cylinders, but reading more on the making of the album, it doesn't seem like a true group effort. Well, clearly, Brian did not give his best songs to the group for the 1985 album - he was saving them for his solo debut. TWGMTR is really a Brian Wilson album with Beach Boy vocals on it. Of course, you could say the same about Pet Sounds or Smile.
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mike
Grommet
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Likes: 15
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Post by mike on Jun 6, 2024 2:04:04 GMT -5
There definitely was resistance though - even on Pet Sounds Mike refused to sing 'Hang on to your Ego'. I've seen Brian mention resistance. I saw an eyewitness interview where Brian was allegedly cornered in the Smile era by some members of the group and reduced to tears. Certain diehards have met resistance to their claims that the group didn't support Smile as it became apparent that no documentary evidence of the group not supporting Smile exists. In fact, the available documentary evidence suggests that the group, owing to their extensive schedule and explicit arrangement with Brian, were disengaged from the creative process but made themselves available for whatever Brian wanted in 1966/67. Some of those aforementioned diehards have been reduced to asserting their claims through unsourced innuendos in their books out of the misguided notion that Brian Wilson couldn't fail, but could only be failed. When Brian maintained that the Smile material wasn't gelling with his vision for the group -- as he did, consistently, for thirty years -- people should have just taken him at his word. This isn't meant to denigrate the products of the Smile sessions, which represent some of Brian Wilson's best and most fascinating studio work and should have been released in some form by mid-1967 -- but it was Brian Wilson's decision alone to put it all in a can.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 6, 2024 7:35:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure what they should have done instead, I just think the group was so dysfunctional by that point, they probably could have used a break. I understand the need for income kept them on the road. As for BB85, it is much more of a group album than their previous entries, but I don't think a geniune cohesiveness was present. From what I've read from Steve Levine, I think he encountered that problem, too. He did the best he could do, though, in that situation. TWGMTR is like that to me as well. On the surface, it sounds like they are back and firing on all cylinders, but reading more on the making of the album, it doesn't seem like a true group effort. Well, clearly, Brian did not give his best songs to the group for the 1985 album - he was saving them for his solo debut. TWGMTR is really a Brian Wilson album with Beach Boy vocals on it. Of course, you could say the same about Pet Sounds or Smile. You could claim that for every album from Surfin’ Safari through Friends. Pet Sounds, Smile and TWGMTR from their inception were meant to be Beach Boys albums.
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Post by Mopp on Jun 6, 2024 9:10:38 GMT -5
There definitely was resistance though - even on Pet Sounds Mike refused to sing 'Hang on to your Ego'. I've seen Brian mention resistance. I saw an eyewitness interview where Brian was allegedly cornered in the Smile era by some members of the group and reduced to tears. Refused to sing it... until he sang it, double tracked it, and added backing vocals. But yeah refused to sing it. THEN he raised his objection to the lyrics and rewrote them. The Brian being reduced to tears thing is Wild Honey from what I've heard. Carl and Mike telling Brian not to give Darlin' to Redwood.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 6, 2024 10:50:29 GMT -5
There definitely was resistance though - even on Pet Sounds Mike refused to sing 'Hang on to your Ego'. I've seen Brian mention resistance. I saw an eyewitness interview where Brian was allegedly cornered in the Smile era by some members of the group and reduced to tears. Certain diehards have met resistance to their claims that the group didn't support Smile as it became apparent that no documentary evidence of the group not supporting Smile exists. In fact, the available documentary evidence suggests that the group, owing to their extensive schedule and explicit arrangement with Brian, were disengaged from the creative process but made themselves available for whatever Brian wanted in 1966/67. Some of those aforementioned diehards have been reduced to asserting their claims through unsourced innuendos in their books out of the misguided notion that Brian Wilson couldn't fail, but could only be failed. When Brian maintained that the Smile material wasn't gelling with his vision for the group -- as he did, consistently, for thirty years -- people should have just taken him at his word. This isn't meant to denigrate the products of the Smile sessions, which represent some of Brian Wilson's best and most fascinating studio work and should have been released in some form by mid-1967 -- but it was Brian Wilson's decision alone to put it all in a can. I guarantee you that any band with 5-9 members is going to encounter resistance of some sort, whether from within the band, co-writers, record company, etc.. As someone mentioned here over the last few weeks, Brian was taking leaps with his changes in music, whereas The Beatles changes were smoother and more seamless. As things turned out, I think Mike and the band had reason for concern. Recording-wise, after Good Vibrations they never had another Top 10 hit in the U.S. until 1976.
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Post by jds on Jun 6, 2024 11:01:59 GMT -5
There definitely was resistance though - even on Pet Sounds Mike refused to sing 'Hang on to your Ego'. I've seen Brian mention resistance. I saw an eyewitness interview where Brian was allegedly cornered in the Smile era by some members of the group and reduced to tears. Mike objected to the original conception of "I Know There's an Answer," which was (likely) originally known as "Let Go of Your Ego" before the intermediary change to "Hang On to Your Ego" and seems to have been intended as an implicit endorsement of LSD usage. I think Mike did a good thing for several reasons, one of which is "I Know There's an Answer" is a better lyric, universal where "Hang On to Your Ego" is sophomoric and obscure. The argument over Redwood and "Darlin'" is more accurately described as Wild Honey-era and didn't concern any music intended for Smile.
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barto2
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 54
Likes: 88
Member is Online
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Post by barto2 on Jun 10, 2024 19:30:02 GMT -5
Big Sur (feel flows version) is Mike loves best song from a writing perspective
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Post by Micha on Jun 11, 2024 14:25:49 GMT -5
Big Sur (feel flows version) is Mike loves best song from a writing perspective Desper's 1971 mix is better though
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Post by E on Jun 12, 2024 3:36:57 GMT -5
I think it would have fit well on Surf's Up, but the version on Holland best suits the vibe of that album
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Post by John Manning on Jun 12, 2024 11:42:21 GMT -5
I think it would have fit well on Surf's Up, but the version on Holland best suits the vibe of that album Agree… in fact the other version is a tad too schmaltzy for me.
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jahjahbinks
Grommet
Posts: 14
Likes: 11
Favorite Album: 15 Big Ones
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Post by jahjahbinks on Jun 14, 2024 19:45:58 GMT -5
1. Beach Boys Party should have been recorded at a real Party. They should have had a live 70s "Party" (double) lp. 2. Disco Here Comes the Night is actually quite good. Who says otherwise!? 3. I believe myself in the future to be capable of doing the job of Mark Linnet or Stephen Desper to an exceptional degree, therefore I should be in consideration for being an official engineer for future boxsets or other Beach Boys-related projects. I'll help. 4. David Marks was screwed over in the early days of the band. He should have been given more vocal parts and he should not have been in Carl Wilson’s shadow constantly. Who really knows what happened... 7. Hiring a studio musician to play an instrument that several of the Beach Boys are already good at is pointless and a waste of money. A LOT of pop /rock music is recorded by studio musicians...including ones not disclosed such. And for good reason, there is a far distance between skillful proficiency and crack professionalism. 10. A lot of the Beach Boy’s career was sexist in the sense that there were very few female session musicians. This is likely a widespread problem that was everywhere in the 60s. ""Antisemetic"" too if you want to believe Steven Gaines' book. That said there were probably fewer female session musicians.
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