airplanetag
Dude/Dudette
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Posts: 63
Likes: 99
Favorite Album: The Beach Boys Love You
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Post by airplanetag on May 25, 2024 14:09:18 GMT -5
- The studio recording of "Surfin' USA" is too stiff. It doesn't swing the way Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" does. Although SUSA has a more interesting arrangement than SLS, it ends up inferior.
- A lot of Beach Boys fans don't actually like rock & roll that much. Nothing wrong with that, since we all have our tastes, and the Beach Boys aren't strictly a rock & roll band, but it's something I've noticed.
- The way so many people dismiss the vocals on Brian Wilson 1988 as "shouty" is lame. They're good vocals. He sounds energized and enthusiastic.
- Love You has great lyrics. They're hilarious and occasionally moving. And they're meant to be funny. It's not an unintentional byproduct of Brian's mental state, like some think. When Brian belts out "TELL HER SHE SMELLS GOOOOOD TONIGHT", he knows it's goofy and wants you to laugh.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 25, 2024 16:25:37 GMT -5
- The studio recording of "Surfin' USA" is too stiff. It doesn't swing the way Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" does. Although SUSA has a more interesting arrangement than SLS, it ends up inferior. - A lot of Beach Boys fans don't actually like rock & roll that much. Nothing wrong with that, since we all have our tastes, and the Beach Boys aren't strictly a rock & roll band, but it's something I've noticed. - The way so many people dismiss the vocals on Brian Wilson 1988 as "shouty" is lame. They're good vocals. He sounds energized and enthusiastic. - Love You has great lyrics. They're hilarious and occasionally moving. And they're meant to be funny. It's not an unintentional byproduct of Brian's mental state, like some think. When Brian belts out "TELL HER SHE SMELLS GOOOOOD TONIGHT", he knows it's goofy and wants you to laugh. As to Brian Wilson 1988, something terrible happened to the timbre of his voice around the 1985 album's recording. It got worse by the 88 album and was downright ear hurting by Orange Crate Art. Thankfully, that changed with Imagination. Just one man's ears evaluation of Brian.
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Post by jds on May 26, 2024 17:24:54 GMT -5
- A lot of Beach Boys fans don't actually like rock & roll that much. Nothing wrong with that, since we all have our tastes, and the Beach Boys aren't strictly a rock & roll band, but it's something I've noticed. There's a certain unfortunate tendency in Beach Boys fandom to select for shrinking violet types whose primary connection to the group is through Brian's most emotionally vulnerable studio work. This is the downside to the cult of Pet Sounds, I guess.
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 26, 2024 18:37:42 GMT -5
- The studio recording of "Surfin' USA" is too stiff. It doesn't swing the way Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" does. Although SUSA has a more interesting arrangement than SLS, it ends up inferior. - A lot of Beach Boys fans don't actually like rock & roll that much. Nothing wrong with that, since we all have our tastes, and the Beach Boys aren't strictly a rock & roll band, but it's something I've noticed. - The way so many people dismiss the vocals on Brian Wilson 1988 as "shouty" is lame. They're good vocals. He sounds energized and enthusiastic. - Love You has great lyrics. They're hilarious and occasionally moving. And they're meant to be funny. It's not an unintentional byproduct of Brian's mental state, like some think. When Brian belts out "TELL HER SHE SMELLS GOOOOOD TONIGHT", he knows it's goofy and wants you to laugh. I don't agree about SUSA and the problems with BW88 go deeper than Brian's vocal tone, but yes, the other two points are legit. The thing is, a lot of "rock and roll fans" don't actually like rock and roll that much, it's not limited to the Beach Boys fandom swooning to "Please Let Me Wonder." Led Zeppelin don't have a lot of "roll" either. A lot of post-Beatles "rock and roll" is just loud rather than actually rocking in a Chuck/Fats sense.
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Post by 1975aqex on May 26, 2024 23:44:30 GMT -5
I always wondered why everyone is so down on Orange Crate Art? I find it incredibly enjoyable. I remember reading Timothy White's book when it came out and he mentioned Brian and VDP working on it towards the end and I certainly perked up, bought the album the day of release. I understand that it's mostly a Van Dyke Parks album, but I still think it's incredibly underrated. I mean, the vocal arrangements are fantastic.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 27, 2024 0:27:22 GMT -5
Well, I never heard of an engineer named David, so that's not where my confusion came from. I'm not really anywhere near as good as probably most of you are at picking out exactly who is singing what -- but I remember listening to "Summertime Blues" and thinking "Gee, that doesn't sound like one of the Beach Boys, so maybe it's David?" This is the first time I've heard that Nick Venet sang on a Beach Boys song! Were there any other instances of him singing with them?! Or did he ever sing on any other non-Beach Boys recordings? Love and merci, Dan Lega But you might one day hear about an engineer called Dan T. 😏 Dan Tullis?
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Post by lonelysummer on May 27, 2024 0:32:23 GMT -5
- The studio recording of "Surfin' USA" is too stiff. It doesn't swing the way Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" does. Although SUSA has a more interesting arrangement than SLS, it ends up inferior. - A lot of Beach Boys fans don't actually like rock & roll that much. Nothing wrong with that, since we all have our tastes, and the Beach Boys aren't strictly a rock & roll band, but it's something I've noticed. - The way so many people dismiss the vocals on Brian Wilson 1988 as "shouty" is lame. They're good vocals. He sounds energized and enthusiastic. Truth: very little 60s' rock swings the way 50s stuff did. Rare exception: the live version of Roll Over Beethoven on the Beatles' Anthology 1. Agreed about Brian's 1988 vocals. After the horrors that were 15BO/BBLY, it was nice to hear him sounding healthy again.
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Post by longtime lurker on May 27, 2024 11:24:08 GMT -5
Here’s some brief opinions I have of the studio albums: 1. Surfin’ Safari: Basic, but a good place to start 2. Surfin’ USA: A good step up, but still primitive 3. Surfer Girl: Best one yet, especially the ballads 4. Little Deuce Coupe: Understandably Lazy (It was released only three weeks after #3) 5. Shut Down Vol 2: A load of good songs ruined by obvious filler 6. All Summer Long: So good, it makes me want to move to California 7. Beach Boys Christmas: Festive fun from the Surfin’ gods 8. Beach Boys Today: Wonderful album, shame about the “Big Daddy” 9. Summer Days & Summer Nights: The pinnacle of the “fun in the sun” era 10. Beach Boys Party: Fascinating covers and fun overdubs 11. Pet Sounds: Greatest album ever released 12. SMiLE: Greatest Album never released13. Smiley Smile: A shadow of what was promised, but still great 14. Wild Honey: The joyous combination of soulful vocals and a detuned piano 15. Friends: A terrific album that is victim of political circumstance 16. 20/20: Drugs, cultists, and sleeping in parks: a winning combination 17. Sunflower: What sweet dreams are made of 18. Surf’s Up: The Yin to #17’s Yang 19. Carl & The Passions: So Tough: The boys rock out South African style 20. Holland: Special Offer: Free acidhead fairy tale with every purchase of this bliss 21. 15 Big Ones: More like 15 ones of variable, but usually ok quality 22. Beach Boys Love You: And I love them back just for this one 23: Adult Child: Big band jazz meets acid24: Merry Christmas: Christmas, the cheesy 70s way25: MIU Album: Surfin’, the cheesy 70s way 26: LA Light Album: 25% crazy disco stuff, 75% normal songs 27: Keepin’ The Summer Alive: A 60s band creates a cheesy 70s sound in the 80s 28: Beach Boys ‘85: The “let’s impersonate the Culture Club” record, mostly ok 29: Still Cruisin’: The beginning of the end… 30: Summer In Paradise: Processed rubbish with some nuggets of gold 31: Stars N Stripes: The boys go Nashville, and nobody cares 32: That’s Why God Made The Radio: A fine endnote to a fantastic career Very good capsule summaries of the BB album catalogue. And I mostly agree with your opinions, excepting Wild Honey which I never liked. Good on you especially for recognizing how great Love You is....I am mystified as to why so many people on the EH forum dismiss it.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 27, 2024 12:02:22 GMT -5
Editing isn't a problem with Smile; an abundance of disparate themes, inchoate song structures and an over-willingness to discard or remake work product in pursuit of its creator's increasingly evasive aesthetic satisfaction is the problem with Smile. Which is exacerbated by the fact that all these ideas are on lots of different spools of tape. Give me access to a LA studio, and I could remake SMiLE in a few months at most. I can cheat using stuff that wasn’t there in the 60s, such as DAWs and virtual instruments. No need for the Wrecking Crew, when I have a virtual orchestra at my fingertips. If only Brian had today’s recording technology back then, he might have finished SMiLE. As groundbreaking as 60s recording techniques such as the Wall of Sound and double tracking were, they’re kind of ruined for me by the fact that I could duplicate them easily on a Digital Audio Workstation. Such is the inevitable march of technological progress. If you think Smile can be easily recreated using VSTs and a DAW, your dream of being the equal of Wilson, Desper and even Linett are a tad misplaced. This will probably offend you, but someone needs to say it. There is a fine line between self belief and arrogance which you have definitely crossed.
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Post by dant on May 27, 2024 13:33:07 GMT -5
Which is exacerbated by the fact that all these ideas are on lots of different spools of tape. Give me access to a LA studio, and I could remake SMiLE in a few months at most. I can cheat using stuff that wasn’t there in the 60s, such as DAWs and virtual instruments. No need for the Wrecking Crew, when I have a virtual orchestra at my fingertips. If only Brian had today’s recording technology back then, he might have finished SMiLE. As groundbreaking as 60s recording techniques such as the Wall of Sound and double tracking were, they’re kind of ruined for me by the fact that I could duplicate them easily on a Digital Audio Workstation. Such is the inevitable march of technological progress. If you think Smile can be easily recreated using VSTs and a DAW, your dream of being the equal of Wilson, Desper and even Linett are a tad misplaced. This will probably offend you, but someone needs to say it. There is a fine line between self belief and arrogance which you have definitely crossed. Don’t forget, I am studying music production intensely. I have already done a year’s worth of study, and have plans for at least two more. My existing knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments is quite reasonable. I see no reason why I could not work my way up to the level of Linett. I don’t know how much you know about music technology, but I very much doubt it would be hard to track something like “Our Prayer” when I can get a hold of chord charts and other things like that. What even are you trying to suggest? That my hard work studying music production is worthless? I also have perfect pitch, and I can tell you the keys of any song that I am asked about. I hope you don’t think Linett is a god-like figure. He is just a man, and in that sense no different from me. I know exactly how mixing songs works, and I do not wish to have my education and abilities insulted in the way in which you have done. The notion that Linett is somehow better than me is frankly ludicrous and I will not humour it any longer. Please realise that I am studying extra hard to do these things, and it would appreciated if you showed my hard work and dedication the respect it deserves.
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Post by dant on May 27, 2024 13:35:02 GMT -5
But you might one day hear about an engineer called Dan T. 😏 Dan Tullis? That’s not my second name.
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Post by lonelysummer on May 27, 2024 14:35:29 GMT -5
That’s not my second name. No? I was thinking of this guy.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 27, 2024 14:49:19 GMT -5
If you think Smile can be easily recreated using VSTs and a DAW, your dream of being the equal of Wilson, Desper and even Linett are a tad misplaced. This will probably offend you, but someone needs to say it. There is a fine line between self belief and arrogance which you have definitely crossed. Don’t forget, I am studying music production intensely. I have already done a year’s worth of study, and have plans for at least two more. My existing knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments is quite reasonable. I see no reason why I could not work my way up to the level of Linett. I don’t know how much you know about music technology, but I very much doubt it would be hard to track something like “Our Prayer” when I can get a hold of chord charts and other things like that. What even are you trying to suggest? That my hard work studying music production is worthless? I also have perfect pitch, and I can tell you the keys of any song that I am asked about. I hope you don’t think Linett is a god-like figure. He is just a man, and in that sense no different from me. I know exactly how mixing songs works, and I do not wish to have my education and abilities insulted in the way in which you have done. The notion that Linett is somehow better than me is frankly ludicrous and I will not humour it any longer. Please realise that I am studying extra hard to do these things, and it would appreciated if you showed my hard work and dedication the respect it deserves. You know, I first thought that “arrogant” was too strong a term to be applied to you, but after this post it fits you perfectly. Folks like Mark Linett and Steve Desper work for years to become good at their craft. Until you have a resume the likes of both gentlemen, please refrain from comparing yourself to them or claiming that you are better. Thank you.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 27, 2024 15:14:09 GMT -5
If you think Smile can be easily recreated using VSTs and a DAW, your dream of being the equal of Wilson, Desper and even Linett are a tad misplaced. This will probably offend you, but someone needs to say it. There is a fine line between self belief and arrogance which you have definitely crossed. Don’t forget, I am studying music production intensely. I have already done a year’s worth of study, and have plans for at least two more. My existing knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments is quite reasonable. I see no reason why I could not work my way up to the level of Linett. I don’t know how much you know about music technology, but I very much doubt it would be hard to track something like “Our Prayer” when I can get a hold of chord charts and other things like that. What even are you trying to suggest? That my hard work studying music production is worthless? I also have perfect pitch, and I can tell you the keys of any song that I am asked about. I hope you don’t think Linett is a god-like figure. He is just a man, and in that sense no different from me. I know exactly how mixing songs works, and I do not wish to have my education and abilities insulted in the way in which you have done. The notion that Linett is somehow better than me is frankly ludicrous and I will not humour it any longer. Please realise that I am studying extra hard to do these things, and it would appreciated if you showed my hard work and dedication the respect it deserves. You are either unhinged or a troll. I give you a month tops before you annoy everyone and get banned.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 27, 2024 15:17:20 GMT -5
That’s not my second name. Dan Talentless?
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Post by dant on May 27, 2024 15:18:02 GMT -5
Don’t forget, I am studying music production intensely. I have already done a year’s worth of study, and have plans for at least two more. My existing knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments is quite reasonable. I see no reason why I could not work my way up to the level of Linett. I don’t know how much you know about music technology, but I very much doubt it would be hard to track something like “Our Prayer” when I can get a hold of chord charts and other things like that. What even are you trying to suggest? That my hard work studying music production is worthless? I also have perfect pitch, and I can tell you the keys of any song that I am asked about. I hope you don’t think Linett is a god-like figure. He is just a man, and in that sense no different from me. I know exactly how mixing songs works, and I do not wish to have my education and abilities insulted in the way in which you have done. The notion that Linett is somehow better than me is frankly ludicrous and I will not humour it any longer. Please realise that I am studying extra hard to do these things, and it would appreciated if you showed my hard work and dedication the respect it deserves. You know, I first thought that “arrogant” was too strong a term to be applied to you, but after this post it fits you perfectly. Folks like Mark Linett and Steve Desper work for years to become good at their craft. Until you have a resume the likes of both gentlemen, please refrain from comparing yourself to them or claiming that you are better. Thank you. And you don’t already think I’ve started that process with the work I’ve done so far? I’ve been learning music production for a year now, and will continue to learn it for at least two more years. I will also develop these skills independently, by experimenting on my computer at home. Finally, I am going to develop a good resume in time. You have to remember that I am at the start of a very long journey. Who knows where I’ll be at in 2030, for instance? I am only in my twenties. There is no reason why I can’t have gotten to the level of the gentlemen you mention by the time I’m fifty. I’ll have had a quarter of a century of experience by then, which should be sufficient for the things I’m talking about.
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Post by dant on May 27, 2024 15:23:04 GMT -5
That’s not my second name. Dan Talentless? That’s also not my second name.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 27, 2024 15:25:20 GMT -5
That’s also not my second name. It is now. 😆
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Post by dant on May 27, 2024 15:29:54 GMT -5
That’s also not my second name. It is now. 😆 You know, you’re a very horrible person. I wouldn’t listen to you if you paid me to.
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Post by Awesoman on May 28, 2024 7:26:35 GMT -5
If you think Smile can be easily recreated using VSTs and a DAW, your dream of being the equal of Wilson, Desper and even Linett are a tad misplaced. This will probably offend you, but someone needs to say it. There is a fine line between self belief and arrogance which you have definitely crossed. Don’t forget, I am studying music production intensely. I have already done a year’s worth of study, and have plans for at least two more. My existing knowledge of DAWs and virtual instruments is quite reasonable. I see no reason why I could not work my way up to the level of Linett. I don’t know how much you know about music technology, but I very much doubt it would be hard to track something like “Our Prayer” when I can get a hold of chord charts and other things like that. What even are you trying to suggest? That my hard work studying music production is worthless? I also have perfect pitch, and I can tell you the keys of any song that I am asked about. I hope you don’t think Linett is a god-like figure. He is just a man, and in that sense no different from me. I know exactly how mixing songs works, and I do not wish to have my education and abilities insulted in the way in which you have done. The notion that Linett is somehow better than me is frankly ludicrous and I will not humour it any longer. Please realise that I am studying extra hard to do these things, and it would appreciated if you showed my hard work and dedication the respect it deserves. Dude, arguments from authority won't get you anywhere. That's great that you're studying music production; I got my bachelor's degree studying audio recording. But that doesn't automatically make you on par or better than engineers who have been doing this for decades. Especially when you're declaring you can do better using essentially MIDI files...🤷🏼♂️ Might want to get a grip on that ego of yours...
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Post by Awesoman on May 28, 2024 7:29:56 GMT -5
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Post by bessieboporbach on May 28, 2024 7:47:55 GMT -5
You know, I first thought that “arrogant” was too strong a term to be applied to you, but after this post it fits you perfectly. Folks like Mark Linett and Steve Desper work for years to become good at their craft. Until you have a resume the likes of both gentlemen, please refrain from comparing yourself to them or claiming that you are better. Thank you. And you don’t already think I’ve started that process with the work I’ve done so far? I’ve been learning music production for a year now, and will continue to learn it for at least two more years. I will also develop these skills independently, by experimenting on my computer at home. Finally, I am going to develop a good resume in time. You have to remember that I am at the start of a very long journey. Who knows where I’ll be at in 2030, for instance? I am only in my twenties. There is no reason why I can’t have gotten to the level of the gentlemen you mention by the time I’m fifty. I’ll have had a quarter of a century of experience by then, which should be sufficient for the things I’m talking about. I don't want to brigade you. This comes from compassion. I too was an ambitious young man in (to me) fairly recent memory. But take it from a guy who teaches at an institution that is likely similar to the one you're attending: you'd be advised to start looking into (and especially networking) alternative career paths. The very fact that you can practice audio production on a home PC with free or inexpensive software means that it's not exactly a growth industry. It doesn't matter if you're a generational talent. If anything, that makes it worse.
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Post by nts1drums on May 28, 2024 7:54:18 GMT -5
Hot takes? Oh boy…
1. Never Learn Not to Love is actually a great song. Separate the artist from the art folks. Dennis really turned this into something special.
2. I love Friends to death but the stereo mixes on the album…some of them leave something to be desired. Mainly looking at Wake the World and When a Man Needs a Woman. Great songs, great productions, terrible mixes
3. Wild Honey in mono is gross it’s in such bad quality. I’m sorry I always default to the 2017 stereo mixes for that album.
4. Here Comes The Night is great (both versions)
5. I love everything on LA…except for Goin’ South
6. KTSA is actually a great album, but what mainly drags it down is how terrible the mixing on the whole thing is. These are all great songs and I wouldn’t put a single thing down for any of them aside from the mixes. I love all the songs…(but the guitar “solo” on Santa Ana Winds is bad)
7. I don’t think the Calendar Girl cover from the LA period is particularly good. I love me lots of synths and I do love the majority of it but those drum breaks kill it for me.
8. Final one I swear: I hate *hate* the cover of Talk to Me. It’s so sleepy and unimaginative and boring. When they break into Tallahassee Lassie tho…why didn’t they just make a full cover of that one?
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Post by John Manning on May 28, 2024 9:06:44 GMT -5
You know, I first thought that “arrogant” was too strong a term to be applied to you, but after this post it fits you perfectly. Folks like Mark Linett and Steve Desper work for years to become good at their craft. Until you have a resume the likes of both gentlemen, please refrain from comparing yourself to them or claiming that you are better. Thank you. And you don’t already think I’ve started that process with the work I’ve done so far? I’ve been learning music production for a year now, and will continue to learn it for at least two more years. I will also develop these skills independently, by experimenting on my computer at home. Finally, I am going to develop a good resume in time. You have to remember that I am at the start of a very long journey. Who knows where I’ll be at in 2030, for instance? I am only in my twenties. There is no reason why I can’t have gotten to the level of the gentlemen you mention by the time I’m fifty. I’ll have had a quarter of a century of experience by then, which should be sufficient for the things I’m talking about. When you reach fifty, come and let us know how things have turned out.
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Post by Micha on May 28, 2024 10:53:59 GMT -5
That’s also not my second name. Dan Toosureofhimself?
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