|
Post by ironhorseapples on May 28, 2024 11:15:30 GMT -5
Speaking of hot takes, Yahoo recently decided to grace us with their own ranking of all the Beach Boys albums. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/every-beach-boys-album-ranked-140000922.htmlCan't say I agree with it of course. Placing ๐.๐ผ.๐. ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐ above ๐โ๐๐ก'๐ ๐โ๐ฆ ๐บ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐ ๐
๐๐๐๐ or even ๐ฟ.๐ด. (๐ฟ๐๐โ๐ก ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐) seems reckless at best... Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? I did some work in studio 2 when they were doing the orchestral overdubs on the Beach Boys' Philharmonic album in studio 1. My 'hot take' is that that album sunk deservedly into obscurity! (Before my ego gets away from me, by 'work', I mean pressing stop and start on a Pro Tools session. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) At a stretch I could put "worked at Abbey Road" on my CV/resume) Please buy my book. Ironhorseapples on the Art of Humblebragging. I spent a year learning to write, and I'm now greater than Tolstoy and Shakespeare.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 28, 2024 11:28:51 GMT -5
Speaking of hot takes, Yahoo recently decided to grace us with their own ranking of all the Beach Boys albums. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/every-beach-boys-album-ranked-140000922.htmlCan't say I agree with it of course. Placing ๐.๐ผ.๐. ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐ above ๐โ๐๐ก'๐ ๐โ๐ฆ ๐บ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐ ๐
๐๐๐๐ or even ๐ฟ.๐ด. (๐ฟ๐๐โ๐ก ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐) seems reckless at best... Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? I did some work in studio 2 when they were doing the orchestral overdubs on the Beach Boys' Philharmonic album in studio 1. My 'hot take' is that that album sunk deservedly into obscurity! (Before my ego gets away from me, by 'work', I mean pressing stop and start on a Pro Tools session. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) At a stretch I could put "worked at Abbey Road" on my CV/resume) You didnโt become the best producer, ever?
|
|
|
Post by Awesoman on May 28, 2024 11:32:08 GMT -5
Speaking of hot takes, Yahoo recently decided to grace us with their own ranking of all the Beach Boys albums. www.yahoo.com/entertainment/every-beach-boys-album-ranked-140000922.htmlCan't say I agree with it of course. Placing ๐.๐ผ.๐. ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐ above ๐โ๐๐ก'๐ ๐โ๐ฆ ๐บ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐โ๐ ๐
๐๐๐๐ or even ๐ฟ.๐ด. (๐ฟ๐๐โ๐ก ๐ด๐๐๐ข๐) seems reckless at best... Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? I did some work in studio 2 when they were doing the orchestral overdubs on the Beach Boys' Philharmonic album in studio 1. My 'hot take' is that that album sunk deservedly into obscurity!ย (Before myย ego gets away from me, by 'work', I mean pressing stop and start on a Pro Tools session. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) ย At a stretch I could put "worked at Abbey Road" on my CV/resume) Please buy my book. Ironhorseapples on the Art of Humblebragging. I spent a year learning to write, and I'm now greater than Tolstoy and Shakespeare. Yep that was me at Abbey Road taken last year. Can't say I got to go in though so you got me beat there!
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on May 28, 2024 11:33:03 GMT -5
Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? I did some work in studio 2 when they were doing the orchestral overdubs on the Beach Boys' Philharmonic album in studio 1. My 'hot take' is that that album sunk deservedly into obscurity! (Before my ego gets away from me, by 'work', I mean pressing stop and start on a Pro Tools session. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) At a stretch I could put "worked at Abbey Road" on my CV/resume) You didnโt become the best producer, ever? Best 'tape op' ever!
|
|
|
Post by dant on May 28, 2024 11:40:33 GMT -5
Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? I did some work in studio 2 when they were doing the orchestral overdubs on the Beach Boys' Philharmonic album in studio 1. My 'hot take' is that that album sunk deservedly into obscurity! (Before my ego gets away from me, by 'work', I mean pressing stop and start on a Pro Tools session. ![(rofl)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) At a stretch I could put "worked at Abbey Road" on my CV/resume) Please buy my book. Ironhorseapples on the Art of Humblebragging. I spent a year learning to write, and I'm now greater than Tolstoy and Shakespeare. Yep that was me at Abbey Road taken last year. Can't say I got to go in though so you got me beat there! Unsurprisingly, that place is on my bucket list. Iโm sure Iโll one day get to be there, but I must learn some patience first.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on May 28, 2024 11:59:11 GMT -5
Yep that was me at Abbey Road taken last year. Can't say I got to go in though so you got me beat there! Unsurprisingly, that place is on my bucket list. Iโm sure Iโll one day get to be there, but I must learn some patience first. And perhaps some humility? I'll stop the pile on now Dant. There is nothing wrong with self belief, but arrogance and boastfulness invites ridicule. You questioned on the other thread how Linett creates his mixes, and were unaware they are from the multitrack. That alone shows you have a lot to learn. And the more you learn, the less you realise you know - Plato is correct there I'm afraid. Regarding Smile, I can assure you, with my 36 years of experience, that sample libraries and DAW recordings simply cannot faithfully recreate the sound of an ensemble performance recorded in a real space on a completely analogue signal path. Ain't gonna happen. Even well respected scholars such as Joshilyn Hoisington can't quite manage it, and she REALLY knows her stuff! (Check out some of her videos - that would be an excellent starting point for you) The main reason some people turned on you, is your remarks seemed to denigrate and minimise The Beach Boys, their marvellous engineers and the Wrecking Crew. You won't win any friends here doing that! Please take this constructive criticism, and we can be friends. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
Post by jk on May 28, 2024 12:24:53 GMT -5
Regarding Smile, I can assure you, with my 36 years of experience, that sample libraries and DAW recordings simply cannot faithfully recreate the sound of an ensemble performance recorded in a real space on a completely analogue signal path. Ain't gonna happen. Even well respected scholars such as Joshilyn Hoisington can't quite manage it, and she REALLY knows her stuff! (Check out some of her videos - that would be an excellent starting point for you) And let's be honest, no one's ever going to get any closer than that. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png) As for JH's tutorials, dant, they're all here.
|
|
|
Post by bessieboporbach on May 28, 2024 12:55:44 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone could claim that Smile could possibly be finished or "recreated" when no one, not even Brian, knows how the second half of "Surf's Up" was supposed to sound.
All we have is what the Boys slapped together on Brian's demo in the early '70s, and Paul Von Mertens' string arrangement in 2003.
|
|
|
Post by ironhorseapples on May 28, 2024 13:13:01 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone could claim that Smile could possibly be finished or "recreated" when no one, not even Brian, knows how the second half of "Surf's Up" was supposed to sound. All we have is what the Boys slapped together on Brian's demo in the early '70s, and Paul Von Mertens' string arrangement in 2003. I remember a description from someone claiming to have heard it, who described lots of strange horn voicings. I'm sure someone will remember the who, what and where better than I. The consensus was divided between whether it was a genuine description, a misremembering of the 'Talking Horns' session, or complete fabrication. If it ever existed, it is long gone, or else Carl would have surely used it in the '70s.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on May 28, 2024 13:19:22 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone could claim that Smile could possibly be finished or "recreated" when no one, not even Brian, knows how the second half of "Surf's Up" was supposed to sound. All we have is what the Boys slapped together on Brian's demo in the early '70s, and Paul Von Mertens' string arrangement in 2003. I remember a description from someone claiming to have heard it, who described lots of strange horn voicings. I'm sure someone will remember the who, what and where better than I. The consensus was divided between whether it was a genuine description, a misremembering of the 'Talking Horns' session, or complete fabrication. If it ever existed, it is long gone, or else Carl would have surely used it in the '70s. My vote is for the third option.
|
|
|
Post by dant on May 28, 2024 13:38:00 GMT -5
Unsurprisingly, that place is on my bucket list. Iโm sure Iโll one day get to be there, but I must learn some patience first. And perhaps some humility? I'll stop the pile on now Dant. There is nothing wrong with self belief, but arrogance and boastfulness invites ridicule. You questioned on the other thread how Linett creates his mixes, and were unaware they are from the multitrack. That alone shows you have a lot to learn. And the more you learn, the less you realise you know - Plato is correct there I'm afraid. Regarding Smile, I can assure you, with my 36 years of experience, that sample libraries and DAW recordings simply cannot faithfully recreate the sound of an ensemble performance recorded in a real space on a completely analogue signal path. Ain't gonna happen. Even well respected scholars such as Joshilyn Hoisington can't quite manage it, and she REALLY knows her stuff! (Check out some of her videos - that would be an excellent starting point for you) The main reason some people turned on you, is your remarks seemed to denigrate and minimise The Beach Boys, their marvellous engineers and the Wrecking Crew. You won't win any friends here doing that! Please take this constructive criticism, and we can be friends. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I have read your comments, and I would like to say that I will now bury the issue. I apologise for any offence caused, and I will be sure to work on my humility in the future. Regarding Linett, I believe he represents the sort of mixing engineer I would like to be. I always saw him as someone to look up to and someone to aspire to be. I certainly hope that there will be a time in the future when I can gain access to original multitrack recordings for the purposes of producing remixes and remasters. Again, I must acknowledge that I have a lot of work to do to become a better person. Thank you for clearing these things up.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on May 28, 2024 13:49:32 GMT -5
Dant reminds me of me - when I was 16 years old! I thought I could play guitar as good as anybody (well, chords, anyway - I really couldn't do solos - but try telling that to 16 year old me!), thought I could sing, but everytime I tried to go into my upper register, my voice would crack! Oh, but I was gonna be a star, no question about it! I told my dad I was gonna quit school, but mama said "that was daddy's strictest rule". I was a freaking idiot. Well, I'm older and dumber now - I know I ain't never gonna be a start; there are a gazillion people that play better guitar than I do; and as for singing, well, I ain't no (#1 this week) Roy Orbison or Glen Campbell.
|
|
Tilt Araiza
Dude/Dudette
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Dominated Ruins Columbo
Posts: 68
Likes: 88
|
Post by Tilt Araiza on May 28, 2024 14:09:59 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone could claim that Smile could possibly be finished or "recreated" when no one, not even Brian, knows how the second half of "Surf's Up" was supposed to sound. All we have is what the Boys slapped together on Brian's demo in the early '70s, and Paul Von Mertens' string arrangement in 2003. I have my own fanmix, but I describe it as a "simulation", rather than a "reconstruction". I don't know if it's a hot take, but I believe that 2003 was the first time Brian gave any serious consideration to the actual running order. That said, there's something suspiciously neat and tidy about how that second movement flows.
|
|
|
Post by Micha on May 28, 2024 14:25:19 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone could claim that Smile could possibly be finished or "recreated" when no one, not even Brian, knows how the second half of "Surf's Up" was supposed to sound. All we have is what the Boys slapped together on Brian's demo in the early '70s, and Paul Von Mertens' string arrangement in 2003. I have my own fanmix, but I describe it as a "simulation", rather than a "reconstruction". I don't know if it's a hot take, but I believe that 2003 was the first time Brian gave any serious consideration to the actual running order. That said, there's something suspiciously neat and tidy about how that second movement flows. I don't know what I would call my fanmix. An attempt of an approximation to what could have been? Kind of fleshing out the bones? SMiLE can't be reconstructed. It was in constant flux in Brian's mind. There was no definite completed conception that he then deviated from.
|
|
|
Post by gigantiskpyjamas on May 28, 2024 14:37:51 GMT -5
Iโm not sure how hot this take is, but I never listen to Brian Wilson presents SMiLE. Iโm not sure I even enjoy that album. The story behind it and its completion is One Of The Greatest Redemption Stories Of All Timeโข but the final product isnโt that interesting to me.
|
|
Tilt Araiza
Dude/Dudette
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Dominated Ruins Columbo
Posts: 68
Likes: 88
|
Post by Tilt Araiza on May 28, 2024 15:14:59 GMT -5
But there is a vague "something" that is rewarding to try and capture. Where can I hear your fanmix, btw? Do you still have the bit where it goes "by the heroes and vegetables"?
|
|
|
Post by dauber on May 28, 2024 16:13:57 GMT -5
Is that you taking a trip to Abbey Road in your thumbnail? Yep that was me at Abbey Road taken last year. Can't say I got to go in though so you got me beat there! I was there last year too! (And am going back in a few weeks!) If you want to go in, just have an Uber Eats pack strapped to your back. From what I observed, you can just sashay right in with one of those.
|
|
|
Post by Paul JB on May 28, 2024 19:41:16 GMT -5
Along the lines of Brianโs possible ambivalence towards SMiLE, I have this hot take that came to me after seeing Brian and the BW Band play Pet Sounds during that short 40th anniversary tour in 2006 after having seen several SMiLE shows.ย Except for the work they did on Surfโs Up and H&V, Brian and Van Dyke didnโt have the chemistry that Brian and Tony Asher had. Pet Sounds was, for the most part, much better than the work from SMiLE.ย I long for the day when your words are known as obvious fact and not a hot take. Couldnโt agree more. Iโve always said that PS is Brianโs masterpiece and Smile was a failed attempt to top PS. I also believe Brian was at his creative peak during the Smile sessions but couldnโt get there for a variety of reasonsโฆ.and the biggest elephant in the room being Parks. You werenโt there..people will argueโฆ.none of us were.. but if you put biases aside and look at that whole saga itโs obvious those guys were never on the same page.
|
|
|
Post by bessieboporbach on May 28, 2024 21:22:36 GMT -5
Along the lines of Brianโs possible ambivalence towards SMiLE, I have this hot take that came to me after seeing Brian and the BW Band play Pet Sounds during that short 40th anniversary tour in 2006 after having seen several SMiLE shows.ย Except for the work they did on Surfโs Up and H&V, Brian and Van Dyke didnโt have the chemistry that Brian and Tony Asher had. Pet Sounds was, for the most part, much better than the work from SMiLE.ย I long for the day when your words are known as obvious fact and not a hot take. Couldnโt agree more. Iโve always said that PS is Brianโs masterpiece and Smile was a failed attempt to top PS. I also believe Brian was at his creative peak during the Smile sessions but couldnโt get there for a variety of reasonsโฆ.and the biggest elephant in the room being Parks. You werenโt there..people will argueโฆ.none of us were.. but if you put biases aside and look at that whole saga itโs obvious those guys were never on the same page. On the other hand, Brian had the musical inspiration to execute VDP's vision of a sweeping cinematic Americana epic to a degree that VDP himself, for all his classical training and self-conscious erudition, didn't. If you take pieces like "By the People" and "Public Domain" to be VDP's own attempt at that kind of thing, it really comes off as cloying and contrived in a way that "Heroes and Villains" and "Cabinessence" don't, because the raw musical materials Brian provided are so much more engaging (and in most respects, simpler). So, in other words, Brian wouldn't have made anything like the Smile music without VDP's conceptual input...but what he came up with really elevated what he was given. Song Cycle is essentially what Smile as a concept would have sounded like without Brian's innate musicality, and his capacity to *communicate*. It has pretty much every gimmick and every conceptual element that was promised for Smile, except for the tunes. On the other hand, unlike Smile, it actually exists.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on May 28, 2024 21:54:14 GMT -5
Hereโs some brief opinions I have of the studio albums: 1. Surfinโ Safari: Basic, but a good place to start 2. Surfinโ USA: A good step up, but still primitive 3. Surfer Girl: Best one yet, especially the ballads 4. Little Deuce Coupe: Understandably Lazy (It was released only three weeks after #3) 5. Shut Down Vol 2: A load of good songs ruined by obvious filler 6. All Summer Long: So good, it makes me want to move to California 7. Beach Boys Christmas: Festive fun from the Surfinโ gods 8. Beach Boys Today: Wonderful album, shame about the โBig Daddyโ 9. Summer Days & Summer Nights: The pinnacle of the โfun in the sunโ era 10. Beach Boys Party: Fascinating covers and fun overdubs 11. Pet Sounds: Greatest album ever released 12. SMiLE: Greatest Album never released13. Smiley Smile: A shadow of what was promised, but still great 14. Wild Honey: The joyous combination of soulful vocals and a detuned piano 15. Friends: A terrific album that is victim of political circumstance 16. 20/20: Drugs, cultists, and sleeping in parks: a winning combination 17. Sunflower: What sweet dreams are made of 18. Surfโs Up: The Yin to #17โs Yang 19. Carl & The Passions: So Tough: The boys rock out South African style 20. Holland: Special Offer: Free acidhead fairy tale with every purchase of this bliss 21. 15 Big Ones: More like 15 ones of variable, but usually ok quality 22. Beach Boys Love You: And I love them back just for this one 23: Adult Child: Big band jazz meets acid24: Merry Christmas: Christmas, the cheesy 70s way25: MIU Album: Surfinโ, the cheesy 70s way 26: LA Light Album: 25% crazy disco stuff, 75% normal songs 27: Keepinโ The Summer Alive: A 60s band creates a cheesy 70s sound in the 80s 28: Beach Boys โ85: The โletโs impersonate the Culture Clubโ record, mostly ok 29: Still Cruisinโ: The beginning of the endโฆ 30: Summer In Paradise: Processed rubbish with some nuggets of gold 31: Stars N Stripes: The boys go Nashville, and nobody cares 32: Thatโs Why God Made The Radio: A fine endnote to a fantastic career Very good capsule summaries of the BB album catalogue. And I mostly agree with your opinions, excepting Wild Honey which I never liked. Good on you especially for recognizing how great Love You is....I am mystified as to why so many people on the EH forum dismiss it. You got that backwards. Love You is simply embarrassing. Wild Honey is a gem - proving they didn't need all that big production to make amazing music.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on May 28, 2024 21:55:18 GMT -5
Iโm not sure how hot this take is, but I never listen to Brian Wilson presents SMiLE. Iโm not sure I even enjoy that album. The story behind it and its completion is One Of The Greatest Redemption Stories Of All Timeโข but the final product isnโt that interesting to me. Ditto. I did get a live recording of one of the early SMiLe shows and loved it; but as an album, I'll take the Beach Boys version anytime.
|
|
|
Post by Micha on May 29, 2024 9:10:06 GMT -5
But there is a vague "something" that is rewarding to try and capture. Where can I hear your fanmix, btw? Do you still have the bit where it goes "by the heroes and vegetables"? At the moment nowhere. I've started to use extraction software lately and I'm working on a new SMiLE mix AND a Wild-Honey-Album-had-SMiLE-been-released-instead-of-Smiley fanmix at the moment. Maybe I will upload them to YouTube when I'm finished which is something I've never done so far. Maybe I'll upload some stuff to my webspace and post a link here before I put it on YouTube. > Do you still have the bit where it goes "by the heroes and vegetables"? Whoah, I'd forgotten about that! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) That was really a long time ago, was that the SMiLE shop era? That was done just for fun, never part of my "serious" fan mixes. I've done another not serious HV "single version" that could be ready first.
|
|
|
Post by longtime lurker on May 29, 2024 10:29:27 GMT -5
Very good capsule summaries of the BB album catalogue. And I mostly agree with your opinions, excepting Wild Honey which I never liked. Good on you especially for recognizing how great Love You is....I am mystified as to why so many people on the EH forum dismiss it. You got that backwards. Love You is simply embarrassing. Wild Honey is a gem - proving they didn't need all that big production to make amazing music. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. Love You certainly isn't a perfect album, but IMO it's an infinitely stronger and more emotionally satisfying piece of work than Wild Honey.
|
|
|
Post by jds on May 29, 2024 11:46:11 GMT -5
Wild Honey is so different than Love You it's like comparing Boyz II Men to Jonathan Richman.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on May 29, 2024 13:23:20 GMT -5
You got that backwards. Love You is simply embarrassing. Wild Honey is a gem - proving they didn't need all that big production to make amazing music. Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. Love You certainly isn't a perfect album, but IMO it's an infinitely stronger and more emotionally satisfying piece of work than Wild Honey. There is a cult following for Love You - some see it as Brian's last great work with the group. There's been talk the last few years (rumours, really, more than anything) about a box set devoted to that whole Love You/Adult Child/MIU era. Now with those years being barely mentioned in the book or the documentary, I suspect we've seen the end of the era-specific box sets. Which is no great loss, I guess. If Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor failed to convert any doubters, I can't see a Love You box doing any better.
|
|