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Post by lonesurf on Feb 19, 2019 22:10:47 GMT -5
This summer, The Rolling Stones are playing a sold out show in front of almost 70,000 people at the local football stadium. The Who are scheduled to play the local baseball park (35k). Paul McCartney has played there recently as well. Old bands are raking in the bucks with retrospective and "farewell" tours. I just read where KISS is expecting to make well over $100M from touring alone this year.
My question is this: band politics aside, would The Beach Boys be able to successfully mount a 2012-type "reunion" next summer? It wouldn't have to be football and baseball stadiums, just Brian and The Boys putting on a really good "end of the road" type tour. Could they still do a respectable job of it?
And if they still could, then why is Jerry Shilling not making this happen?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 22:38:27 GMT -5
I'd say I'm a little biased, but, yes, I think they could pull it off.
In my opinion, Mike sounds about the same as 2012 with no noticeable drop off. We know that Al would be fine. Bruce only needs to pull off one song per show, "Disney Girls", and I think he's holding up well with that one. I read somewhere recently that David Marks is back performing live, but I don't know how his health would be over an extended tour. Of course the wild card is Brian. His health and performing skills are a question mark now. Maybe with a very strategic and economic lead vocal load, he could pull it off. You might have to go back to the restricted days of "Sloop John B", and the "Surfer Girl" bridge, but if they don't do the video tribute to Carl and Dennis, maybe he could also sing "God Only Knows" and "Do You Wanna Dance" (how about "Forever"). With the limited lead vocals, I would imagine Brian would become very bored singing only backgrounds and playing basic piano. Who knows, maybe there would be a special song that Brian wanted to perform like "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" in 2012.
I would definitely include Blondie. He could be the secret weapon. I would bring him out mid-show and have him rock out to "Sail On Sailor" and "Wild Honey". I think he'd bring the house down and add another element to the show.
I guess I should say that I don't see this happening, though. Oh, it's possible, but it's a long shot. Other than Al and Blondie, I'm not sure any of the other guys would even want to do it. Or some wives.
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Post by Jim on Feb 20, 2019 1:45:51 GMT -5
I'd say I'm a little biased, but, yes, I think they could pull it off.
In my opinion, Mike sounds about the same as 2012 with no noticeable drop off. We know that Al would be fine. Bruce only needs to pull off one song per show, "Disney Girls", and I think he's holding up well with that one. I read somewhere recently that David Marks is back performing live, but I don't know how his health would be over an extended tour. Of course the wild card is Brian. His health and performing skills are a question mark now. Maybe with a very strategic and economic lead vocal load, he could pull it off. You might have to go back to the restricted days of "Sloop John B", and the "Surfer Girl" bridge, but if they don't do the video tribute to Carl and Dennis, maybe he could also sing "God Only Knows" and "Do You Wanna Dance" (how about "Forever"). With the limited lead vocals, I would imagine Brian would become very bored singing only backgrounds and playing basic piano. Who knows, maybe there would be a special song that Brian wanted to perform like "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" in 2012.
I would definitely include Blondie. He could be the secret weapon. I would bring him out mid-show and have him rock out to "Sail On Sailor" and "Wild Honey". I think he'd bring the house down and add another element to the show.
I guess I should say that I don't see this happening, though. Oh, it's possible, but it's a long shot. Other than Al and Blondie, I'm not sure any of the other guys would even want to do it. Or some wives.
I think you're right on about most of this. I think Dave's health obviously is question mark as we really don't know what's going on there. I will say with Brian, I think playing piano and backing vocals with maybe four or five leads would actually suit him. I recall him saying how he enjoyed watch Mike as the MC of the 2012 shows. And I think if they have Brian pick four or five leads that he actually wants to do and let him run with those, I think things would be fine. Maybe I'm wrong though. Sure have been before. Just my two cents. I also think having Blondie would really be something. Though I think he should be on stage for the entire show, I know how he's been used in the show touring with Brian, so I assume if he was on a full Beach Boys tour, it would be the same or less. So I get it and wouldn't expect anything more than that.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 20, 2019 1:50:42 GMT -5
I think it might be possible but I’d be tempted to rely on the six – originals Mike, Al and David, plus Bruce, Blondie and Ricky – to front it up,. To be painfully honest, I can’t see Brian making a credible contribution seven years down the line from the last reunion. His recent performances as seen online haven’t been too great at all; I’m glad I took the kids to see him in summer 2017.
What would the backing band lineup be these days? Scotty Bennett’s place would be taken by Gary Griffin and/or Billy Hinsche. Who’s currently taking percussionist Nelson’s place?
If Brian didn’t take part, would a Beach Boys reunion tour sell tickets or would the whining “we hate Mike Love” camp claim that, without a Wilson, it was just a tribute band?
If BW did go along for the ride, would Jeff Foskett be his vocal safety net, or Matt Jardine? How are things between Brian and and Jeff anyway?
More important, how are things between Melinda and Jacquelyne? Their differences have been referred to many many times but I haven’t a clue as to what those differences are, or how deep they run. That might be where Schilling has to work some real magic. Could they be overcome by the prospect of mullah?
That said, if BW produced a new BBs album and the band toured on the back of that, I’d be delirious.
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Post by monolithic on Feb 20, 2019 6:55:19 GMT -5
If Mike and Al did the heavy lifting on the lead vocals, it could still be a good show considering the quality of musicians working in the various bands.
I think the reviews would depend a lot on how much Brian could contribute though. If he were just sitting and watching (Auld Lang Syne style) for some of the set, then that would be too sad to see.
Really though, I think Mike and Al should keep doing what they're doing. Mike released more stuff over the past few years than he has in decades and Al is digging deep and playing stuff you would have thought we would never hear again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 7:49:38 GMT -5
I think the reviews would depend a lot on how much Brian could contribute though. If he were just sitting and watching (Auld Lang Syne style) for some of the set, then that would be too sad to see. That would be my biggest concern. If Brian's physical health was satisfactory to tour, and if he was able to pull off a couple of respectable lead vocals, how would he...appear...for the rest of the show? If Brian just sat there with his arms at his side, not singing or playing along, even occasionally, it would seriously affect the vibe and overall good feelings of the event. To be honest, even though the 2012 show I attended was very enjoyable, there were moments when Brian was not exactly...active.
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Post by E on Feb 20, 2019 8:05:12 GMT -5
I think it would look embarrassing compared to the others - and not just Brian.
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Post by lonesurf on Feb 20, 2019 9:58:43 GMT -5
These answers are mostly the way that I think. For a significant portion of the music press/fandom, any tour without Brian would lack legitimacy. But how much could/would Brian bring to a current performance? Would having The Boys back together (with Mike to MC) reinvigorate him?
John Manning said: "More important, how are things between Melinda and Jacquelyne? Their differences have been referred to many many times but I haven’t a clue as to what those differences are, or how deep they run. That might be where Schilling has to work some real magic. Could they be overcome by the prospect of mullah?"
This is the reason for my post. I keep reading article after article that clearly states that these retrospective tours by mostly legacy artists are absolutely huge moneymakers for the artists. Wouldn't a smart manager find a way to get these Beach Boys (and the various wives and managers) together on stage just long enough to get in on some of this legacy tour money?
This is raises the question of whether the 2012 tour actually turned enough of a profit? I know that Mike discussed the costly logistics, but I would think that merchandise sales and softer benefits such as 'brand awareness' (such as an increase in catalog sales/streams) must be included in any cost/benefit analysis.
The funny thing is that, unlike The Stones, I can see a reconstituted Beach Boys somehow producing a new album to support the tour, like they did in 2012. They could dive back into Joe Thomas's old hard drive, or they could work with the team that just produced Mike's surprisingly decent Christmas disc. A "reunion " tour could even give Brian reason to finally deliver his much mentioned oldies album as a Beach Boys record.
It's funny, I can almost see these Beach Boys having an easier time delivering a good new studio album than pulling off another Celebration tour.
But... thanks for the discussion. To use John's word, mullah changes everything. It makes the world go 'round. These tours are goldmines.
I just wonder if these Beach Boys could/would be able to still pull one off? As usual, a lot depends on Brian Wilson.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 20, 2019 10:04:09 GMT -5
Of course they can, so long as they are all on the same page.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 10:53:33 GMT -5
Great thread, lonesurf. I think a good many BB/BW diehards think about this topic more than they'd like to admit. I know I do.
Brian's participation is necessary for the tour to reach it's FULL POTENTIAL, but there are enough "Beach Boys", including Blondie, to pull it off and make it worthwhile. You know the old saying about the music being the real star of the show. You can't lose with those songs. That's been proven. I think the reviews would be overwhelming positive.
I believe it was Howie Whatshisname who kept pushing the issue about Melinda and Jaqueline's relationship. This is not a chauvinistic statement so don't take it that way, but I think the wives were talking more about clothing, parenting, and hotels than Mike writing with Brian or financial issues related to the tour. I don't think Jacqueline would even want to speak for Mike (who would?) about artistic or financial issues, and the middle of a tour wouldn't be the time to bring them up, especially with Melinda.
Speaking of money, while I think C50 made a lot of money, certainly more than a typical BB/BW show, it had to affected by the overhead. Other than the original Beach Boys who I'm sure were well compensated, you had a helluva lot of musicians to take care of. There were more musicians on stage than a small high school marching band! For any new reunion tour, you would probably run into many of the same financial issues, and knowing The Beach Boys, money is always a top priority.
Yeah, a new album would be nice to tour behind. It would give them an additional reason to reunite and tour, something else to talk about. But let's be honest, they would probably only perform one or two new songs, those songs wouldn't be as well-received as the hits, so it's not crucial. Was the performance of "That's Why God Made The Radio" and "Isn't It Time" a highlight for you in 2012?
Would a new Beach Boys' album (rock & roll/new material/oldies) produced by Brian serve as motivation or inspiration for Brian to be involved in a tour to semi-promote it? Meh. Maybe. Doubtful. Maybe at the beginning.
Like almost everything The Beach Boys have ever done as a group since Murry was their manager, money is the first priority. But after that, for any new tour, at their ages, again you have to ask if the guys even want to do it - for any price.
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Post by The Cap'n on Feb 20, 2019 11:08:21 GMT -5
I don't think there's any chance that a new reunion/last go-round tour could be any better than the last reunion/last go-round tour. Voices don't improve as their owners advance through their 70s ... and neither does overall health, for that matter. However much they relied on stellar backup musicians (and their voices) in 2012, it would be as much or more this time around.
As has been mentioned multiple times in this thread already, Brian in particular has apparently had a serious decline. I know there is always the dream of how good he might sound if only he were into it. Well, yeah, maybe ... it has been true in the past that the more interested he was, the more engaged he was, the better he sang. Does it remain true? I don't know. With each passing tour, and each bad performance, I doubt it more. If he's on stage as a trained monkey belting out the same couple of lines he did at Knebworth in 1980 and otherwise sits there stonily or grimaces while occasionally touching his keyboard, is that really something we need to see? Do you want to see that again?
The other guys can do something or other. Bruce's voice hasn't sounded good to me in quite some time. Mike's is mostly OK, sometimes sketchy. Blondie is Blondie, but something of an outsider voice to most of the band's hits. Dave wasn't a key vocal presence. Al's is the best of the bunch, but he's not Superman.
I think I'm of the "enough is enough" camp at this point. I was really, really skeptical before the 2012 reunion, and in the end although it resulted in yet another round of Beach Boys nonsense, it was much better than I'd expected. So was the album. I personally hope they leave that well enough alone: trying to fix it with another finale will more likely result in just a bigger embarrassment. (Lot of money for them, though. So that'd be good.)
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Post by Autotune on Feb 20, 2019 11:09:18 GMT -5
Great replies!
I think they CAN pull it off. Brian enjoys being onstage with the guys, specially with Mike (he wouldn’t have protested the end of C50 if it were otherwise). And I never saw BW look as relaxed and happy on his solo shows as he looked with the BBs. No matter how many leads he sings.
An agreement will need to be signed stating that Mike will not be attacked when C57 is over and he returns to his touring outfit. Al and the other guys would be in for the ride. They can do with or without South African beach boys.
And totally agree with some of the above comments: the BBs are the perfect vehicle for Brian’s rock and roll project. And I think Scott Totten would be the perfect producer for it: he knows Brian’s music and style inside and out, he knows his band, he’s trusted by all, can bring an edge and a new perspective, is tremendously respected, and he did a fine job producing Mike.
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Post by kds on Feb 21, 2019 8:14:30 GMT -5
I think The Beach Boys absolutely could pull off another reunion.
I think it would actually be great for Brian, since he wouldn't have to do nearly as many lead vocals. If I remember correctly, at the show I attended in 2012 in Maryland, he only did a handful of leads during the first half of the show.
Also, at this point, a new album would just be a bonus, rather than a necessity.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 21, 2019 8:28:56 GMT -5
I think The Beach Boys absolutely could pull off another reunion. I think it would actually be great for Brian, since he wouldn't have to do nearly as many lead vocals. If I remember correctly, at the show I attended in 2012 in Maryland, he only did a handful of leads during the first half of the show. Also, at this point, a new album would just be a bonus, rather than a necessity. If they do a reunion show - I'd like to see more stuff with either Carl or Dennis leads with the band accompanying them. That worked really well during C50. And, I think they both contributed a lot - in their own right - maybe one from each one's albums, and maybe something from the solo work of each band member, even in a medley - which they did for years and years or do some of the classics medley-style to save setlist time. They all have done great work as a group, but each had very nice ability in songwriting - and I think it would be a nice nod to recognize that.
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Post by kds on Feb 21, 2019 8:33:59 GMT -5
I think The Beach Boys absolutely could pull off another reunion. I think it would actually be great for Brian, since he wouldn't have to do nearly as many lead vocals. If I remember correctly, at the show I attended in 2012 in Maryland, he only did a handful of leads during the first half of the show. Also, at this point, a new album would just be a bonus, rather than a necessity. If they do a reunion show - I'd like to see more stuff with either Carl or Dennis leads with the band accompanying them. That worked really well during C50. And, I think they both contributed a lot - in their own right - maybe one from each one's albums, and maybe something from the solo work of each band member, even in a medley - which they did for years and years or do some of the classics medley-style to save setlist time. They all have done great work as a group, but each had very nice ability in songwriting - and I think it would be a nice nod to recognize that. I thought the Carl and Dennis tributes on the C50 Tour were nice, but I'd probably keep it at one song a piece. I think if the band starts playing live to an increasing number of pre-recorded vocals, it takes away from the live experience. Also, it's hard enough to make a setlist with just Beach Boys songs, so I think including solo songs during another BB reunion would be unnecessary. If they made any chance from 2012, I'd prefer having Blondie sing a few songs.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 21, 2019 8:39:21 GMT -5
If they do a reunion show - I'd like to see more stuff with either Carl or Dennis leads with the band accompanying them. That worked really well during C50. And, I think they both contributed a lot - in their own right - maybe one from each one's albums, and maybe something from the solo work of each band member, even in a medley - which they did for years and years or do some of the classics medley-style to save setlist time. They all have done great work as a group, but each had very nice ability in songwriting - and I think it would be a nice nod to recognize that. I thought the Carl and Dennis tributes on the C50 Tour were nice, but I'd probably keep it at one song a piece. I think if the band starts playing live to an increasing number of pre-recorded vocals, it takes away from the live experience. Also, it's hard enough to make a setlist with just Beach Boys songs, so I think including solo songs during another BB reunion would be unnecessary. If they made any chance from 2012, I'd prefer having Blondie sing a few songs. So - maybe with greater video accessibility - I was thinking about Dennis doing You Are So Beautiful from video footage or Carl doing something that he had his stamp on, both to change things up a little. Of course, Blondie would be great as well. Their live work (Carl and Dennis) was really impressive. I don't think it would be a bad thing to see Dennis steal the show again. Imagine hearing Dennis dedicating the YASB to the girls and asking, "Do you mess around?"
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Post by kds on Feb 21, 2019 8:45:23 GMT -5
I thought the Carl and Dennis tributes on the C50 Tour were nice, but I'd probably keep it at one song a piece. I think if the band starts playing live to an increasing number of pre-recorded vocals, it takes away from the live experience. Also, it's hard enough to make a setlist with just Beach Boys songs, so I think including solo songs during another BB reunion would be unnecessary. If they made any chance from 2012, I'd prefer having Blondie sing a few songs. So - maybe with greater video accessibility - I was thinking about Dennis doing You Are So Beautiful from video footage or Carl doing something that he had his stamp on, both to change things up a little. Of course, Blondie would be great as well. Their live work (Carl and Dennis) was really impressive. I don't think it would be a bad thing to see Dennis steal the show again. I'd be fine with changing up the songs used, but in a live setting, I'd prefer to make the show as live as possible. Which is why I'd limit the Dennis / Carl portion to one song each.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 21, 2019 9:06:34 GMT -5
So - maybe with greater video accessibility - I was thinking about Dennis doing You Are So Beautiful from video footage or Carl doing something that he had his stamp on, both to change things up a little. Of course, Blondie would be great as well. Their live work (Carl and Dennis) was really impressive. I don't think it would be a bad thing to see Dennis steal the show again. I'd be fine with changing up the songs used, but in a live setting, I'd prefer to make the show as live as possible. Which is why I'd limit the Dennis / Carl portion to one song each. But in reality - some of those doing live parts are covering the original voices - which, if there is good video for - with more original voices with live support - a very cool show. When Dennis was in good shape, he was really funny - and his singing was just great. You could not take your eyes off him - he was so able to engage the audience. And while Forever is a great song - YASB absolutely knocked it out of the park - he was like a meteor.
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Post by kds on Feb 21, 2019 9:10:14 GMT -5
I'd be fine with changing up the songs used, but in a live setting, I'd prefer to make the show as live as possible. Which is why I'd limit the Dennis / Carl portion to one song each. But in reality - some of those doing live parts are covering the original voices - which, if there is good video for - with more original voices with live support - a very cool show. When Dennis was in good shape, he was really funny - and his singing was just great. You could not take your eyes off him - he was so able to engage the audience. And while Forever is a great song - YASB absolutely knocked it out of the park - he was like a meteor. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think using pre recorded audio for more than one song each would make it less like a live concert, and more like a tribute show. Then, you veer close to those touring hologram type shows.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 21, 2019 9:22:27 GMT -5
But in reality - some of those doing live parts are covering the original voices - which, if there is good video for - with more original voices with live support - a very cool show. When Dennis was in good shape, he was really funny - and his singing was just great. You could not take your eyes off him - he was so able to engage the audience. And while Forever is a great song - YASB absolutely knocked it out of the park - he was like a meteor. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think using pre recorded audio for more than one song each would make it less like a live concert, and more like a tribute show. Then, you veer close to those touring hologram type shows. That is fine. In a sense it is absolutely a career tribute. I think it would be such a loss not to see those really rare videos of Dennis. It is the closest thing to experiencing the earlier and really formative work. And this guy - larger than life, swaggering, oozing sex appeal, and yet so humble and grateful while performing. Absolutely not a hologram-type. He was the guy - the image of the band. Dennis (and Carl) is/are still the elephant/s in the room. This is just audio...
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Post by kds on Feb 21, 2019 9:24:51 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think using pre recorded audio for more than one song each would make it less like a live concert, and more like a tribute show. Then, you veer close to those touring hologram type shows. That is fine. In a sense it is absolutely a career tribute. I think it would be such a loss not to see those really rare videos of Dennis. It is the closest thing to experiencing the earlier and really formative work. And this guy - larger than life, swaggering, oozing sex appeal, and yet so humble and grateful while performing. Absolutely not a hologram-type. He was the guy - the image of the band. Dennis (and Carl) is/are still the elephant/s in the room. This is just audio... If they have archival footage of Dennis, I'd prefer that it get legit live release rather than having the surviving band members playing to it.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 21, 2019 9:36:18 GMT -5
That is fine. In a sense it is absolutely a career tribute. I think it would be such a loss not to see those really rare videos of Dennis. It is the closest thing to experiencing the earlier and really formative work. And this guy - larger than life, swaggering, oozing sex appeal, and yet so humble and grateful while performing. Absolutely not a hologram-type. He was the guy - the image of the band. Dennis (and Carl) is/are still the elephant/s in the room. This is just audio... If they have archival footage of Dennis, I'd prefer that it get legit live release rather than having the surviving band members playing to it. Next time you see the Touring Band and they are doing their amazing finale - (Cowsill) they do screen shots of Dennis in the 80's - under that "sail" formation - and look around at the faces when those shots/and short video clips come up. It is still impressive - and maybe one or two (one for each ) could work. I do love the live videos (not just the audio) when they appear on Youtube. It is kind of speculative at this point anyway - when I see it - I'll believe it.
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Post by AGD on Feb 21, 2019 13:24:31 GMT -5
My response is... why ? To what end ? "Just because" doesn't cut it with me. The 50th succeeded beyond all reasonable expectations (the ending thereof excepted), let's leave it there. On the evidence of his recent shows, Brian wouldn't/couldn't contribute that much and I don't want to see him embarrassed any further. Plus, there's no selling point. 57th anniversary ? 50th anniversary of... leaving Capitol Records ? 45th anniversary of Endless Summer ? The chances are, it would be at best pointless, at worst a fiasco. As Mr. Goldwyn once said, gentlemen, include me out.
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Post by Mikie on Feb 21, 2019 13:40:37 GMT -5
And my response is........it's fun to dream, isn't it?
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Post by juicebrohnston on Feb 21, 2019 14:23:42 GMT -5
Another point is..does Mike really want to do it? I think he's changed the way he looks at things a bit in recent years, and says he's happy doing his own thing.
When bands like the Stones aren't on tour, you don't have Keith and Mick out for endless stretches touring Stones material. So a Beach Boys reunion is a slightly different animal, in that, there is a 'Beach Boys' and a Brian Wilson for public consumption year in and year out. So I would agree you have to have some sort of 'marketing concept' behind a reunion.
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