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Post by lonelysummer on Feb 28, 2019 22:18:21 GMT -5
Just an observation: there was a time when it was hard enough to imagine 50 and 60 year olds performing rock and roll, let alone 70 and 80 year olds. The music, when it began, was youth oriented. Chuck Berry was nearly 30 when he had his breakthrough, yet he chose to write songs about things teenagers could identify with - having a cool car, dancing after school with your sweetie, etc. In light of that, I guess I expected that the performers would retire when they got old, and their music would be replaced by whatever was new and hip. Instead, the performers of the 50s and 60s - for the most part - just went on and on, until they were no longer ABLE to perform anymore. Oh sure, there are a few exceptions - I don't know when the Everly Brothers last performed together, but Phil died in 2014, and Don hasn't done anything in a long time. But most of them are just going to keep going until they can't do it anymore. A lot of what we see/hear on the oldies circuit is one former member of a band touring endlessly, with their own band, doing the hits of their old band. You can see Herman's Hermits starring Peter Noone (in the US) or Herman's Hermits starring Barry Whitwam (in the UK). Up until a few years ago, you could see Paul Revere and the Raiders on the casino and state fair circuit (Paul with guys that joined the band after the hitmaking years), or Mark Lindsay, "former lead singer of Paul Revere and the Raiders", on some package oldies show. The Beach Boys members joined those ranks when Carl died. You could see Mike and Bruce as the Beach Boys doing the old hits; Brian and Al touring under Brian's name doing the old hits. You can see Ray Davies performing the songs he wrote as the leader of the Kinks with his own band; or his brother Dave with his own band performing (mostly) the songs Ray wrote for the Kinks. It just seems silly to me. Put aside your differences while you have the chance. Do any of you think Nesmith regrets not rejoining the Monkees while Davy was still alive? Now Peter is dead, but Mike and Micky are still touring as the Monkees. Since the guys are going to go on touring and performing until they die, they might as well do it together. Brian doesn't have to be a part of it if he's not up to it. The BB's did fine touring without him for many years, no need to change that now. Mike, Al, Bruce, David, Blondie, heck, get Ricky in there, too. Get Dean onboard. Get Billy Hinsche on the stage. I want any and all surviving Beach Boys, while they are still on this earth. And while i'm at it, someone get me a candy bar, then we'll have world peace.
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
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Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 1, 2019 0:29:42 GMT -5
I couldn’t agree more lonelysummer - if they’re all going to be on the road at this point, do it together. I was shocked by how enjoyable the 50th anniversary shows were. I’d only seen Mike & Bruce once previously, and apparently Mike was somewhat ill at that show, as he didn’t sing much at all, so I had low expectations. But Mike really brought his A-game to the anniversary show I saw, one of my favorite . I can only imagine how fun it’d be to have Mike and Bruce together with Brian, Al, and Blondie at least. Anyone else (David Marks, Ricky Fataar, etc) would be icing on the cake.
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Post by monolithic on Mar 1, 2019 4:20:58 GMT -5
While I admire the sentiment, I think Mike and Al are better off doing their own things. They have both admitted that they have never particularly been friends and they clearly bumped heads for many years which led to Al being fired in both the early and late 90s. It was also said that they didn't get along particularly well during C50.
A touring line-up of Mike, Al, Bruce and David probably wouldn't lead to them playing much bigger venues and there would inevitably be disputes over setlists, band members, touring schedules etc. Not to mention the fact that Al would probably have to accept essentially being Mike's employee. I just can't see how that would work.
Al should carry on doing his solo shows where hopefully he can continue to add new deep cuts to the set.
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Post by The Cap'n on Mar 1, 2019 7:34:57 GMT -5
I think the flaw in lonelysummer's point is that the exact same logic--take advantage of your remaining time to do what you really want and won't regret--is just as valid a reason to not reunite again, depending on the principals themselves.
"I want any and all surviving Beach Boys, while they are still on this earth." Right. And so if it were up to that poster, for that poster's happiness, that's what would be the thing to do in his or her remaining years. But it ignores the feelings of the band. If it makes Mike, or Brian, or Al, or whoever miserable to go through that rigmarole again, then they should NOT do it. Because of the same reason.
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Departed
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 8:11:30 GMT -5
I'm a proponent of lonelysummer's philosophy or "wishes". I have been frustrated and BORED for years, attending concerts that didn't reach their Beach Boys potential because of the splintered lineups. As a Beach Boys' diehard, you actually know (or could make an educated guess) the reasons why Mike and Bruce are touring as one faction, and Brian, Al and company are doing the same. The frustration sets in when you don't understand WHY the differences can't be worked out. Sure, members "not liking each other" is a big hurdle to overcome, but it can be done. The Beach Boys pulled that off for decades. What I'm getting at is this. The Beach Boys have had incompetent management...maybe forever. Now, a lot of the blame lies with the band members themselves; we know their history as individuals. However, a competent manager could (should?) be able to find ways around these issues, find ways to overcome differences. Now Jerry Schilling is back in the picture. He has seen it all, including The Beach Boys' craziness, before. Will he even try to reunite the band, or will he just try to maximize profit utilizing the back catalogue?
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Post by The Cap'n on Mar 1, 2019 8:16:47 GMT -5
I knew I could count on you, SJS!
But I'll use your own words in my defense.
Sure, members "not liking each other" is a big hurdle to overcome, but it can be done. The Beach Boys pulled that off for decades.
Yes, it can. But if you're 75 years old, is your first thought "you know, I think I should soldier through that thing I don't like doing that I used to do for decades. After all, I've only got a few years left--may as well spend it miserable!"
It could be as simple as that. Yes, they could rake in more cash together, but they superficially get together every couple years to sell some new product anyway (and they're not hurting financially regardless).
It's fine to want them to reunite, but let's not pretend that it's for their benefit.
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Departed
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 8:49:42 GMT -5
I knew I could count on you, SJS!
But I'll use your own words in my defense.
Sure, members "not liking each other" is a big hurdle to overcome, but it can be done. The Beach Boys pulled that off for decades.
Yes, it can. But if you're 75 years old, is your first thought "you know, I think I should soldier through that thing I don't like doing that I used to do for decades. After all, I've only got a few years left--may as well spend it miserable!"
It could be as simple as that. Yes, they could rake in more cash together, but they superficially get together every couple years to sell some new product anyway (and they're not hurting financially regardless).
It's fine to want them to reunite, but let's not pretend that it's for their benefit.
Yeah, it's definitely true that Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, David and their families don't need anymore grief at this stage in their lives/careers. No argument there. What I'm getting at or proposing is that somebody, in this case Schilling, try to focus on the SPECIFIC things or differences that make the guys...dislike each other in 2019, and address them instead of just living with them for the sake of making $$$$$$$$. It's like "how did that (going on with the problems) work out?" You now have a bunch of wealthy but separated and sometimes feuding Beach Boys. Are the issues that are keeping The Beach Boys apart in 2019 issues that can be worked out? Are they petty or are they serious? Can they be negotiated? Can they be healed? I sometimes think The Beach Boys couldn't work their way out of a wet paper bag.
Where I disagree with you is that I do see some benefit in the guys reuniting. Call me naive but I always thought the guys - artistically - truly preferred being together than apart. Other than Dennis Wilson, I always thought their solo careers were much less fulfilling than being in The Beach Boys. And that goes with Mike and Bruce today. Are there issues/problems with Mike that makes him want to "control" The Beach Boys band today? Yes. Can those issues be worked out? Yes? No? Maybe?
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Post by Jim on Mar 1, 2019 12:32:43 GMT -5
I actually agree with quite a bit of what both SJS and Captain are sayin'. I think the flaw in lonelysummer's point is that the exact same logic--take advantage of your remaining time to do what you really want and won't regret--is just as valid a reason to not reunite again, depending on the principals themselves.
"I want any and all surviving Beach Boys, while they are still on this earth." Right. And so if it were up to that poster, for that poster's happiness, that's what would be the thing to do in his or her remaining years. But it ignores the feelings of the band. If it makes Mike, or Brian, or Al, or whoever miserable to go through that rigmarole again, then they should NOT do it. Because of the same reason. I'm a proponent of lonelysummer's philosophy or "wishes". I have been frustrated and BORED for years, attending concerts that didn't reach their Beach Boys potential because of the splintered lineups. As a Beach Boys' diehard, you actually know (or could make an educated guess) the reasons why Mike and Bruce are touring as one faction, and Brian, Al and company are doing the same. The frustration sets in when you don't understand WHY the differences can't be worked out. Sure, members "not liking each other" is a big hurdle to overcome, but it can be done. The Beach Boys pulled that off for decades. What I'm getting at is this. The Beach Boys have had incompetent management...maybe forever. Now, a lot of the blame lies with the band members themselves; we know their history as individuals. However, a competent manager could (should?) be able to find ways around these issues, find ways to overcome differences. Now Jerry Schilling is back in the picture. He has seen it all, including The Beach Boys' craziness, before. Will he even try to reunite the band, or will he just try to maximize profit utilizing the back catalogue? I think both of these posts are pretty spot on and wanted to spotlight them as such. And to expand on what SJS is saying....I think it's fair that the beef between Brian and Mike or Mike and Al or whoever is probably in reality no worse than the relationship of Mick and Keith. Yet Mick and Keith still get up on stage together and let people enjoy the live experience that is the Rolling Stones. And even occasionally still record a new song or two. And maybe once a decade, a new album! They make lots of money, still get to "do them" for the most part, but also get to please a lot of the public who want to see them together. Now as the captain said, should any of these guys do something that they absolutely, no way don't wanna do? They should not. Not for a second. If it's too much for Brian to deal with Mike and his general vibe or if it's too much for Mike to deal with Brian and his wife and their people, then they should keep doin' what they're doin'. I wouldn't blame either guy. In fairness to Mike, I'm sure Melinda puts up a tough fight for Brian's interests and in fairness to Brian, I'm sure Mike's general way of being probably gets to be a bit much for a guy like Brian who just isn't that kinda person. But my feeling is that a good mediator (Schilling perhaps) could get this figured out somewhat easily and get these guys together and making a whole lot more money, and make us a whole lot happier!
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Post by The Cap'n on Mar 1, 2019 16:12:47 GMT -5
By the way, my cynicism and pessimism on this whole thing aren't felt and shown without regret. I've said often that TWGMTR was far, FAR better than I thought it would be, and those shows were really good stuff, too. It's a shame that all parties weren't willing and able to continue, especially in terms of producing more new music, but also onstage (though obviously not at that pace).
I think that every day that passes for them is a level of quality they won't be able to achieve again, more or less, and we've had something like 2,300 days pass since that tour ended. Incremental decline isn't going to stop, or even slow. Selfishly, it's sad what we haven't been given that theoretically could have existed.
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Post by monolithic on Mar 1, 2019 16:41:33 GMT -5
I'm a proponent of lonelysummer's philosophy or "wishes". I have been frustrated and BORED for years, attending concerts that didn't reach their Beach Boys potential because of the splintered lineups. As a Beach Boys' diehard, you actually know (or could make an educated guess) the reasons why Mike and Bruce are touring as one faction, and Brian, Al and company are doing the same. The frustration sets in when you don't understand WHY the differences can't be worked out. Sure, members "not liking each other" is a big hurdle to overcome, but it can be done. The Beach Boys pulled that off for decades. What I'm getting at is this. The Beach Boys have had incompetent management...maybe forever. Now, a lot of the blame lies with the band members themselves; we know their history as individuals. However, a competent manager could (should?) be able to find ways around these issues, find ways to overcome differences. Now Jerry Schilling is back in the picture. He has seen it all, including The Beach Boys' craziness, before. Will he even try to reunite the band, or will he just try to maximize profit utilizing the back catalogue? I think "not liking each other" is only a small part of it. The business issues will be much, much bigger and some of Mike's comments in his book rang true. Mike has had a lean method of touring for 20 years that has both put on a good show and been very profitable. Brian requires a much bigger crew and much higher touring expenses. To me, it's amazing that they could come to a compromise even once in 2012 and I wouldn't expect that to happen again. Especially as any shows that Mike did with Brian or Al could only complicate things when Mike then went back to touring without them.
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Post by ian on Mar 1, 2019 16:47:38 GMT -5
Personally I listen to the music now and forever and will read anything written but I don’t plan on seeing any BBs related show again. But I’m glad I went to all the shows I attended in the good old days
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Post by monolithic on Mar 1, 2019 16:51:02 GMT -5
I think both of these posts are pretty spot on and wanted to spotlight them as such. And to expand on what SJS is saying....I think it's fair that the beef between Brian and Mike or Mike and Al or whoever is probably in reality no worse than the relationship of Mick and Keith. Yet Mick and Keith still get up on stage together and let people enjoy the live experience that is the Rolling Stones. And even occasionally still record a new song or two. And maybe once a decade, a new album! They make lots of money, still get to "do them" for the most part, but also get to please a lot of the public who want to see them together. Now as the captain said, should any of these guys do something that they absolutely, no way don't wanna do? They should not. Not for a second. If it's too much for Brian to deal with Mike and his general vibe or if it's too much for Mike to deal with Brian and his wife and their people, then they should keep doin' what they're doin'. I wouldn't blame either guy. In fairness to Mike, I'm sure Melinda puts up a tough fight for Brian's interests and in fairness to Brian, I'm sure Mike's general way of being probably gets to be a bit much for a guy like Brian who just isn't that kinda person. But my feeling is that a good mediator (Schilling perhaps) could get this figured out somewhat easily and get these guys together and making a whole lot more money, and make us a whole lot happier! I think that's part of the problem though... The Rolling Stones (and many other bands) can make far more money together than they can apart. I doubt that is true for Mike though and I imagine he might actually lose a significant amount of money as he would obviously have to stop playing 170 shows a year to involve the other guys.
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Post by The Cap'n on Mar 1, 2019 16:51:34 GMT -5
Personally I listen to the music now and forever and will read anything written but I don’t plan on seeing any BBs related show again. But I’m glad I went to all the shows I attended in the good old days That's where I am currently, too. Anything could happen, I guess, but last year I skipped Brian's Christmas tour kickoff show here in town, Al's solo shows (I saw his first one here, but skipped subsequent), and Mike's Beach Boys. I think I'm going to be strictly listening to the recordings and my memories henceforth.
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Post by ian on Mar 1, 2019 17:34:58 GMT -5
I have no interest in seeing the Stones again either but I did go to recent van morrison and boz scaggs shows that were quite good. I also saw a club show by Ian hunter that was very good
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Mar 2, 2019 0:45:48 GMT -5
Mike's shows are still very good. I'll see them whenever they come to town next. I bought tickets for Brian's show an hour away this summer, but I'm not expecting much. If I had seen him numerous times like you guys, I'd probably skip it. I've only seen him once though (not counting 2012), so decided not to pass up the opportunity to see him one more time. Al, Blondie and the rest of band are something to look forward to anyway.
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Post by nach0king on Mar 8, 2019 9:36:00 GMT -5
Another point is..does Mike really want to do it? I think he's changed the way he looks at things a bit in recent years, and says he's happy doing his own thing. When bands like the Stones aren't on tour, you don't have Keith and Mick out for endless stretches touring Stones material. So a Beach Boys reunion is a slightly different animal, in that, there is a 'Beach Boys' and a Brian Wilson for public consumption year in and year out. So I would agree you have to have some sort of 'marketing concept' behind a reunion. Mike has flat-out said that he likes touring smaller markets, going to the heartland, playing county fairs etc. Until last year they were regular fundraisers for a suburban school district here in North Texas, for example. While I'm sure he would enjoy a larger tour, that's not how he has the Beach Boys currently arranged.
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Post by filledeplage on Mar 8, 2019 9:58:17 GMT -5
Another point is..does Mike really want to do it? I think he's changed the way he looks at things a bit in recent years, and says he's happy doing his own thing. When bands like the Stones aren't on tour, you don't have Keith and Mick out for endless stretches touring Stones material. So a Beach Boys reunion is a slightly different animal, in that, there is a 'Beach Boys' and a Brian Wilson for public consumption year in and year out. So I would agree you have to have some sort of 'marketing concept' behind a reunion. Mike has flat-out said that he likes touring smaller markets, going to the heartland, playing county fairs etc. Until last year they were regular fundraisers for a suburban school district here in North Texas, for example. While I'm sure he would enjoy a larger tour, that's not how he has the Beach Boys currently arranged. They looked as though they still had that old synergy at the Sirius XM event. I rule nothing out. All I know as a lifer fan is that when you least expect it you will bet a big and lovely surprise from them.
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Post by nach0king on Mar 8, 2019 12:41:27 GMT -5
Mike has flat-out said that he likes touring smaller markets, going to the heartland, playing county fairs etc. Until last year they were regular fundraisers for a suburban school district here in North Texas, for example. While I'm sure he would enjoy a larger tour, that's not how he has the Beach Boys currently arranged. They looked as though they still had that old synergy at the Sirius XM event. I rule nothing out. All I know as a lifer fan is that when you least expect it you will bet a big and lovely surprise from them. True, I was pleasantly surprised at how well everyone got along.
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