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Post by Paul JB on Feb 1, 2019 10:27:37 GMT -5
My old turntable was broke and I finally got a new one last Fall. I never purchased the albums MIU through BB 85 on CD so since it had been a long time since I listened to them two things jumped out. First, those albums are not at all as bad as many of us think. In fact, there is at least one if not two excellent albums in there but that's another thread. Second, I think those vinyl lovers might be onto something and I always thought they were kind of nuts. Maybe it's the fact that you spend a lot of time setting up the record, dusting it and such that you end up paying more attention when you drop the needle but these albums sounded really fresh and alive to me from a fidelity standpoint. More natural perhaps? I know people claim they have a warmer sound but it was not really that...it was things like Carl's voice for instance sounded more lifelike to me on certain tracks.
So now I'm regretting have given away dozens of albums about 10 years ago. Thankfully I kept all of my BB's stuff that mattered, but a lot of 70's & 80's bands I let go....really stupid.
I know we've discussed this with Steve Desper who takes it a step further as he said you need to hear the actual tapes to really be blown away but I'm curious what others think. Brand new vinyl by current artists if it is recorded digitally doesn't seem to make much sense to me but I'm rethinking the original vinyl from master analog tapes. In any case playing those old BB's records is just plain fun so if you can...do it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 10:53:02 GMT -5
For me the attraction to vinyl is having a tangible connection to the music, combined with the ritual of setting a record up for playing, as you described. And because the format requires physical attention - the dusting, cueing it up, flipping it over - there is absolutely a need to pay attention. If I’m putting on music to do house cleaning, or cooking, or whatever, I’ll put on an itunes playlist or spotify. But when I want to really listen to something, I’ll engage with my vinyl collection. I don’t do other things while listening to vinyl. I’ll have a drink, sit (or sometimes stand, occasionally dance) and listen attentively. And because of that, yes, the opportunity to notice and appreciate a specific vocal or instrument solo, or what have you, presents itself.
Nothing sounds like vinyl in my opinion. To give a Beach Boys example, I was very lukewarm on the Friends album which I had initially listened to it on my phone through earbuds, and then from my laptop’s built in speaker. I felt very “meh” about it. It wasn’t until I bought the vinyl, put it on the turntable, and heard it come through the external speaker that it opened up and revealed itself to me. If you ask me, the Friends album doesn’t do well in a constrained, restricted space via a digital medium. When you let it ring out into the open air, the warm vinyl sound really does come across, and it’s a slice of heaven.
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Post by Custom Machine on Feb 1, 2019 14:29:54 GMT -5
I absolutely love the organic experience of listening to vinyl.
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Post by Vale on Feb 1, 2019 17:09:50 GMT -5
Oh yes, I love vinyl. The warmer sound thing is true, you can hear it on seventies albums, but it also depends about your turntable, the head and the amplifier.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 18:24:33 GMT -5
Oh yes, I love vinyl. The warmer sound thing is true, you can hear it on seventies albums, but it also depends about your turntable, the head and the amplifier. Interesting... I can’t speak to the audiophile realm of vinyl/turntable appreciation. Despite the fact that my set-up is very basic, I still think there is a huge difference in sound quality between vinyl and any other medium
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Post by Vale on Feb 2, 2019 12:13:04 GMT -5
This afternoon I was linstening to Holland LP, does anyone knows why in the inner sleeve there is no Sail On Sailor lyrics? I never noticed that. I checked the CD version and same story.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 2, 2019 18:43:33 GMT -5
To tell the truth, vinyl is vinyl. If it didn't exist, it wouldn't be big deal.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 2, 2019 19:28:11 GMT -5
To tell the truth, vinyl is vinyl. If it didn't exist, it wouldn't be big deal. If it didn’t exist, what would we have done for music for several decades, pre-digital?
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 2, 2019 20:02:48 GMT -5
I meant I don't care about it. Y'know, indifference. When you say stuff like that, you really should explain why you feel that way. A lot of us old folk actually touched and cleaned and played vinyl. It is something very tangible that we are familiar with and experienced firsthand for many years. That is the problem with written word; we know what you write, but not necessarily what you mean.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 20:09:41 GMT -5
I love vinyl and analog recordings of any medium (physical books, vinyl and film) will always be better than digital.
I own a modest LP collection of about 30 albums, 3 of which are from the Beach Boys (the SMiLE boxset, Pet Sounds, Love You.) I'm really proud of them, and don't regret buying them, but I stopped once I graduated college. I've got other things to spend disposable income on and vinyls are too expensive to justify the cost. Plus, they're somewhat difficult to store. If I'm being honest, the maiden listen of each vinyl I ripped the recording into a FLAC (lossless audio) file on my computer and phone. These are what I listen to most often, just because it's more convenient.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 2, 2019 20:14:47 GMT -5
I love vinyl and analog recordings of any medium (physical books, vinyl and film) will always be better than digital. I own a modest LP collection of about 30 albums, 3 of which are from the Beach Boys (the SMiLE boxset, Pet Sounds, Love You.) I'm really proud of them, and don't regret buying them, but I stopped once I graduated college. I've got other things to spend disposable income on and vinyls are too expensive to justify the cost. Plus, they're somewhat difficult to store. If I'm being honest, the maiden listen of each vinyl I ripped the recording into a FLAC (lossless audio) file on my computer and phone. These are what I listen to most often, just because it's more convenient. Spending $24 tp $30 bucks a pop for an album is just outrageous, especially when albums were $3.99 when I started buying and between $10-$12 when I stopped buying in the early to mid 80’s.
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Post by Mikie on Feb 2, 2019 20:19:19 GMT -5
This afternoon I was linstening to Holland LP, does anyone knows why in the inner sleeve there is no Sail On Sailor lyrics? I never noticed that. I checked the CD version and same story. There's a large space there on the sheet because the lyrics of 'We Got Love' were originally included but removed just before the sleeve was printed. 'We Got Love' was replaced with 'Sail On Sailor' because Warners wanted a hit single on the album. An exception was (by mistake) the first pressings of the album were issued to record stores in Germany, which had the original running order on Side A as The Beach Boys conceived it.
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 2, 2019 20:30:30 GMT -5
I meant I don't care about it. Y'know, indifference. When you say stuff like that, you really should explain why you feel that way. A lot of us old folk actually touched and cleaned and played vinyl. It is something very tangible that we are familiar with and experienced firsthand for many years. That is the problem with written word; we know what you write, but not necessarily what you mean. Grandfolks used to buy vinyls when they were young in the 60s. I found them, played them via their vintage vinyl player & it didn't impress sound-wise. The "magical" pop with crack noises annoy. Digital is better to these ears. CD is better to these ears. Vinyl? Negative.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 20:32:42 GMT -5
It really is. Granted you have to factor in inflation, but even that's not so much to justify the price hike. Plus wages have stagnated and the cost of living has increased too. So it was cool to buy my favorites on vinyl just to have the full size cover art, support the artists (or their estates) and earn my hipster cred. Browsing record stores and hunting down obscure favorites (the USA mostly) was fun. But when I can just rip music off YouTube for free it really doesn't warrant the expense.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Feb 2, 2019 20:35:08 GMT -5
When you say stuff like that, you really should explain why you feel that way. A lot of us old folk actually touched and cleaned and played vinyl. It is something very tangible that we are familiar with and experienced firsthand for many years. That is the problem with written word; we know what you write, but not necessarily what you mean. Grandfolks used to buy vinyls when they were young in the 60s. I found them, played them via their vintage vinyl player & it didn't impress sound-wise. The "magical" pop with crack noises annoy. Digital is better to these ears. CD is better to these ears. Vinyl? Negative. I agree with you regarding the crackling and pops. I still enjoy vinyl, but I too prefer digital.
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Post by kds on Feb 2, 2019 20:53:19 GMT -5
It really is. Granted you have to factor in inflation, but even that's not so much, and plus the cost of living hasn't increased to match it. So it was cool to buy my favorites on vinyl just to have the full size cover art, support the artists (or their estates) and earn my hipster cred. Browsing record stores and hunting down obscure favorites (the USA mostly) was fun. But when I can just rip music off YouTube for free it really doesn't warrant the expense. I think the vast amount of free music on YouTube and other services is temporary. The industry has been very slow to catch up to the digital age, even after the Napster firestorm 20 years ago. I first started collecting music as a sophomore in high school around 1995. At that time, CD was king. Vinyl was out, and the revival was years ago. The internet was still in its infancy. Over the next 24 years, I spent a lot of time, money, and energy building my collection by going to record stores (most of which are no longer in business), box stores, BMG, Columbia House, flea markets, and eventually internet retailers like Amazon. There's also quite a few that I have received as gifts or promo items. I enjoyed the thrill of hunting, going to the store to get the latest release, and unwrapping a new CD on Christmas morning. Now, in 2019, that experience is fading away. And no many people have access to music for free. I think the rise of streaming has lead to a sense of thinking that music should be free. And I think that's one of the reasons for the decline in music in general, the decline in the album as a work of art, and the ever increasing costs of concert tickets. Am I bitter because I have over 1,000 CDs that I, or somebody else, paid hard earned money for, most of which are now available for no cost? Yeah, probably. But, I think digital music has not only been one of the reasons for the lack of overall quality in music, but its robbing people of real music ownership experiences. And, I think that's kind of sad. Just my two cents.
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Post by Paul JB on Feb 2, 2019 21:17:10 GMT -5
While I believe cd’s may be the perfect balance, vinyl albums are indeed special. The lyric sheets that Vale mentioned are a prime example. Though you can find lyrics online to digital “free” downloads, you are so far removed from the experience of reading that inner sleeve in your hand while your turntable is spinning that a certain magic is lost. And the cover art...even on cd’s it’s so small...cover art has an impact on what’s inside...see Mujan’s cover art thread. With downloads the cover art matters ZILCH!
Not trying to recruit anyone, and as I stated earlier I always thought the vinyl worshippers were a little nuts but I recently got a dose of it and was as surprised as anyone.
Also, collecting can be a fun rewarding thing and how the hell does one collect digital downloads? There is a reason people pay hundreds and even thousands of dollars for records...it’s the artwork, the disc, the memories, it’s the tangible item as Dirk put it and something that can be treasured like a fine bottle of wine or a piece of art.
Almost forgot...near mint vinyl records have no annoying cracks and pops...I recently played two early 80’s Stray Cats albums I thankfully hung onto and they sounded fantastic!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 21:29:30 GMT -5
I think the vast amount of free music on YouTube and other services is temporary. The industry has been very slow to catch up to the digital age, even after the Napster firestorm 20 years ago. I first started collecting music as a sophomore in high school around 1995. At that time, CD was king. Vinyl was out, and the revival was years ago. The internet was still in its infancy. Over the next 24 years, I spent a lot of time, money, and energy building my collection by going to record stores (most of which are no longer in business), box stores, BMG, Columbia House, flea markets, and eventually internet retailers like Amazon. There's also quite a few that I have received as gifts or promo items. I enjoyed the thrill of hunting, going to the store to get the latest release, and unwrapping a new CD on Christmas morning. Now, in 2019, that experience is fading away. And no many people have access to music for free. I think the rise of streaming has lead to a sense of thinking that music should be free. And I think that's one of the reasons for the decline in music in general, the decline in the album as a work of art, and the ever increasing costs of concert tickets. Am I bitter because I have over 1,000 CDs that I, or somebody else, paid hard earned money for, most of which are now available for no cost? Yeah, probably. But, I think digital music has not only been one of the reasons for the lack of overall quality in music, but its robbing people of real music ownership experiences. And, I think that's kind of sad. Just my two cents. I agree, and it's a shame that has to be the way it is. No joke, my girlfriend and I were just talking earlier this evening about the decline of shopping malls due to the convenience of online shopping and what a shame that is. (I used to love going to the mall to hangout in my teens.) How to curb these trends I really don't know. I agree that the album as an artform has declined and that's also a shame. There's nothing like a really solidly constructed collection of inter-connected music. However, I don't think it's downloads which have killed that so much as streaming and vapid new, manufactured artists (think Disney channel triple threats, etc.) As I said before, I made a point to buy all my favorite albums on vinyl to support the artist. But the thing is, I'm not gonna be shamed or guilted about changing trends which I had no say in. I grew up with the tools to listen to music digitally, and I'm going to do so. If record companies don't like it they need to change with the new technology the way film studios needed to adapt to a world of TV and newspapers to a world of TV and the internet. I understand feeling bitter about spending money for things other people stream or download but I'm sure a lot of people in the horse-drawn buggy era bemoaned not being able to travel as conveniently as those who grew up with automobiles. They need to get on board with streaming, make albums more affordable...something...to be more consumer friendly in a changing world. Similarly, artists can distribute their own albums on the internet today and I'd encourage them to do so. I'd be far more likely to buy new music if I knew all the proceeds went to the actual artist as opposed to the record company and some fatcat executives. Not to get political here, but it'd be nice if wages hadn't stagnated since the 70s and the cost of living wasn't so much higher now then before. As is, when expenses are so high and any expendable income nowadays has to go to building a new wardrobe, I'm not going to lose sleep over downloading the occasional track off YouTube which I couldn't have afforded to and wouldn't buy otherwise.
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Post by kds on Feb 2, 2019 23:00:46 GMT -5
Like I said, the industry is slow to adapt. They knew this was coming 20 years ago. Yet, here we are.
I wasn't trying to shame you, Leni. I was simply commenting on a trend that I feel is taking music down. And now that people are so used to having access to so much free music, there's likely to be some blowback when its time to pay the piper.
In the meantime, I'll still be one of a dying breed, buying and listening to CDs, which considering are a fraction of the cost of a vinyl LP, is I think the best way to go for music ownership. Again, not attacking or shaming you, that's just how I feel.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 23:23:18 GMT -5
Like I said, the industry is slow to adapt. They knew this was coming 20 years ago. Yet, here we are. I wasn't trying to shame you, Leni. I was simply commenting on a trend that I feel is taking music down. And now that people are so used to having access to so much free music, there's likely to be some blowback when its time to pay the piper. In the meantime, I'll still be one of a dying breed, buying and listening to CDs, which considering are a fraction of the cost of a vinyl LP, is I think the best way to go for music ownership. Again, not attacking or shaming you, that's just how I feel. I know you weren't kds. Sometimes I speak to higher issues or trends when replying to people, and admittedly that probably gives the wrong impression sometimes. So when you were raising some of the issues with people downloading music I was speaking broadly about my feelings on that concept as opposed to just you. I think the best solution is streaming services like Spotify which play occasional ads for revenue and offer paid premium services as ad-free alternatives. That, and/or cutting out the middle man entirely. Let artists release their own music online for a more reasonable price (maybe $5 as opposed to the $20-$30 prices vinyls often command). For people who want lossless analog, the lyric sheets and full sized cover art (and I totally get the appeal of that, believe me) then print made to order sets for a higher price. As you say, the industry has been dragging its feet to adapt in a changing market and that's their problem. They've had almost 30 years now since the internet began to change their business model to something more people could afford to support.
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Post by Vale on Feb 3, 2019 2:10:26 GMT -5
This afternoon I was linstening to Holland LP, does anyone knows why in the inner sleeve there is no Sail On Sailor lyrics? I never noticed that. I checked the CD version and same story. There's a large space there on the sheet because the lyrics of 'We Got Love' were originally included but removed just before the sleeve was printed. 'We Got Love' was replaced with 'Sail On Sailor' because Warners wanted a hit single on the album. An exception was (by mistake) the first pressings of the album were issued to record stores in Germany, which had the original running order on Side A as The Beach Boys conceived it. Thanks Mikie!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 4:52:24 GMT -5
support the artists (or their estates) and earn my hipster cred Just wanted to say that I love your posts Leni (though still haven’t had time to read your SMiLE essay) and this one made me smile. Especially cos I’ve just been ribbing my workmate over his new glasses made out of melted down vinyl records, which is about the most hipster thing I have ever heard. I love the feel, cracks and pops included, of vinyl like I love the smell of books and the pleasure of just holding it in your hand. It’s just real and tactile and visceral in a way that streaming isn’t. Or CDs with their horrible little plastic cases and teeny cover art for that matter. Having said that, pretty much all my listening is paid streaming now and I don’t own a turntable...sad...especially as under this new convenience model one hands over money for the same product over and over again and never actually owns anything
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Post by dogear on Feb 3, 2019 6:16:01 GMT -5
There's a large space there on the sheet because the lyrics of 'We Got Love' were originally included but removed just before the sleeve was printed. 'We Got Love' was replaced with 'Sail On Sailor' because Warners wanted a hit single on the album. An exception was (by mistake) the first pressings of the album were issued to record stores in Germany, which had the original running order on Side A as The Beach Boys conceived it. Thanks Mikie! Not quite correct though as far as the German Holland is concernd - The first pressing (Kinney Music) had SoS on it, when Kinney became WEA the mistake happened: they used the master containing We Got Love - that was noticed quite quickly, but about 500 copies had already been delivered to the shops.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 3, 2019 7:44:04 GMT -5
Maybe we could stop referring to vinyl as “vinyls”? They’re LPs or albums, 45s or singles, 12-inchers or 7-inchers. They could be vinyl, collectively, but “vinyls” is a word invented by the digital generation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 7:57:04 GMT -5
Maybe we could stop referring to vinyl as “vinyls”? They’re LPs or albums, 45s or singles, 12-inchers or 7-inchers. They could be vinyl, collectively, but “vinyls” is a word invented by the digital generation. Well, as a member of "the digital generation" I will keep saying vinyls. Album in my experience just refers to the music, not the medium. Ive never heard anyone use LP outside the internet, and the other terms dont sound as good. You know what the other person is saying, so whats the big deal?
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