mike
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Post by mike on Jun 16, 2024 13:31:14 GMT -5
My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW.
The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections.
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Post by AGD on Jun 16, 2024 13:43:29 GMT -5
At one point "Vega-Tables" was going to be the "next" single, hence the pic of Brian in front of a produce display.
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Post by Awesoman on Jun 16, 2024 13:49:20 GMT -5
My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW. The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections. "H&V" for sure. And of course "Good Vibrations". The other two you mentioned do have nice melodies, but aren't particularly strong on their own. "Vega-Tables" would be a more sensible choice. "Surf's Up" possibly too (despite it being a bit of a departure from the band's other hit singles). |
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 16, 2024 14:04:26 GMT -5
My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW. The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections. I think, back in the 60's, the idea of releasing a string of singles from an album hadn't developed yet. In many cases, a single was released, then a month or two later, an album was built around it. There are many popular albums from the era that only had one single on it. "Highway 61 Revisited" - "Like a Rolling Stone". Where's the second single? The followup was "Positively 4th Street" - not on the album. "Revolver" - one double sided hit, "Eleanor Bron"...uh... "Rigby", b/w "Yellow Submarine". They could have released a followup, but they didn't. Should I go on? |
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 16, 2024 14:17:57 GMT -5
My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW. The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections. I think, back in the 60's, the idea of releasing a string of singles from an album hadn't developed yet. In many cases, a single was released, then a month or two later, an album was built around it. There are many popular albums from the era that only had one single on it. "Highway 61 Revisited" - "Like a Rolling Stone". Where's the second single? The followup was "Positively 4th Street" - not on the album. "Revolver" - one double sided hit, "Eleanor Bron"...uh... "Rigby", b/w "Yellow Submarine". They could have released a followup, but they didn't. Should I go on? Interestingly enough, if there was a strong album cut, which was not on a single, it might even be covered by another group and released as a single. For example, "Ballad of a Thin Man" from Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album was getting local airplay, and the Grass Roots quickly cashed in by releasing a shorter version of the song, renaming it "Mr. Jones (Ballad of a Thin Man)" which the radio stations immediately started playing instead of Dylan's longer version, but it supposedly flopped. (The Story of the 3 different manufactured "Grass Roots" bands is interesting in its own right). Look how another group was manufactured by Gary Usher (The Hondells) just to capitalize on "Little Honda" that The Beach Boys failed to release on their own single. And even in the case of The Beach Boys "Vegetables," yet another group was manufactured to cover it as a single - by Laughing Gravy (Dean Torrence, who was not allowed to release records under the Jan and Dean monicker.) |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 16, 2024 14:48:44 GMT -5
Apparently that was a gag - I remember I think Carl saying Brian did the photo so that Capitol had to include it. In LLVS I guess. At one point "Vega-Tables" was going to be the "next" single, hence the pic of Brian in front of a produce display. |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 16, 2024 14:52:02 GMT -5
I think DYLW is extremely powerful and melody laden. I suspect possible missing lyrics from the Hawaiian section but even so very catchy. I forgot about GV - I think Brian put it on to please the record company - it doesn't fit at all does it..? My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW. The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections. I think, back in the 60's, the idea of releasing a string of singles from an album hadn't developed yet. In many cases, a single was released, then a month or two later, an album was built around it. There are many popular albums from the era that only had one single on it. "Highway 61 Revisited" - "Like a Rolling Stone". Where's the second single? The followup was "Positively 4th Street" - not on the album. "Revolver" - one double sided hit, "Eleanor Bron"...uh... "Rigby", b/w "Yellow Submarine". They could have released a followup, but they didn't. Should I go on? |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 16, 2024 15:40:52 GMT -5
I think DYLW is extremely powerful and melody laden. I suspect possible missing lyrics from the Hawaiian section but even so very catchy. I forgot about GV - I think Brian put it on to please the record company - it doesn't fit at all does it..? I think, back in the 60's, the idea of releasing a string of singles from an album hadn't developed yet. In many cases, a single was released, then a month or two later, an album was built around it. There are many popular albums from the era that only had one single on it. "Highway 61 Revisited" - "Like a Rolling Stone". Where's the second single? The followup was "Positively 4th Street" - not on the album. "Revolver" - one double sided hit, "Eleanor Bron"...uh... "Rigby", b/w "Yellow Submarine". They could have released a followup, but they didn't. Should I go on? I wonder if the record company or Royal Festival Hall made Brian include Good Vibrations on the 2004 Smile? Considering the original Smile was never released, Brian was not under any pressure to include it on his solo version. Like Sloop John B on Pet Sounds, it is safe to assume that Brian intended GV as a Smile track. |
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Post by Micha on Jun 16, 2024 15:50:36 GMT -5
My best guess is: H&V, CIFOTM, DYLW. The record company always asked for 3 and I think those - even unfinished - have very strong melodies and sections. Personally I don't think either of these were strong enough on their own to be a single. Surf's Up is the only track that, properly finished, qualifies to be a third single after GV and H&V. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Jun 16, 2024 16:04:03 GMT -5
If I remember correctly there was indication that Wonderful had been intended for a single. Maybe with GV.
"Maybe" applying to both.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 16, 2024 16:05:23 GMT -5
Honestly, there is nothing on Smile besides Good Vibrations that would have made it as a Top 20 single release. I am not sure that a Smile version of Heroes and Villains would have been catchy enough. To my ears, Wind Chimes has the catchiest refrain and the Boys’ typical harmonies. Though, I still don’t believe it would have been a chart climber.
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mikelover
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Favorite Album: Love You, Surf's Up, Friends, Smiley Smile...
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Post by mikelover on Jun 16, 2024 20:07:21 GMT -5
I think Brian belabored Heroes and Villains too much instead of focusing on the only other obvious Smile single, Vegetables. To my knowledge it was also one of the actually finished songs, it amazes me that it wasn't released sometime in late April or early May 1967 given how they were able to get great results from a relatively short period of recording.
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Post by AGD on Jun 17, 2024 1:41:52 GMT -5
I think DYLW is extremely powerful and melody laden. I suspect possible missing lyrics from the Hawaiian section but even so very catchy. I forgot about GV - I think Brian put it on to please the record company - it doesn't fit at all does it..? Considering the original Smile was never released, Brian was not under any pressure to include it on his solo version. Like Sloop John B on Pet Sounds, it is safe to assume that Brian intended GV as a Smile track. No. |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 17, 2024 3:02:48 GMT -5
No-one thinks DYLW would make an epic single..? I think its amazingly catchy despite being completely hat-stand 'bonkers' - its a sort of sea-shanty crossed with Tubular Bells. McCarthur Park was a hit - DYLW is nowhere near that whacky  Remember the Ooga-Chukka bit was nicked* and put into a huge hit single. (* allegedly - if not nicked it was still very popular) |
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Post by John Manning on Jun 17, 2024 3:09:02 GMT -5
Remember the Ooga-Chukka bit was nicked* and put into a huge hit single. (* allegedly - if not nicked it was still very popular) Can you expand on that please? |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 17, 2024 6:32:47 GMT -5
It was a top 20 hit - Remember the Ooga-Chukka bit was nicked* and put into a huge hit single. (* allegedly - if not nicked it was still very popular) Can you expand on that please? |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 17, 2024 6:37:38 GMT -5
I wonder if the record company or Royal Festival Hall made Brian include Good Vibrations on the 2004 Smile? Considering the original Smile was never released, Brian was not under any pressure to include it on his solo version. Like Sloop John B on Pet Sounds, it is safe to assume that Brian intended GV as a Smile track. No. I know. I was making a point that Brian included GV when putting Smile together in 2004. If GV wasn’t really meant for Smile, then he could have very easily not included it. The argument was that Capitol was forcing him to include it in ‘66 like some still believe that he was forced to include Sloop John B on Pet Sounds. |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 17, 2024 6:44:49 GMT -5
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Post by John Manning on Jun 17, 2024 7:16:48 GMT -5
It was a top 20 hit - Can you expand on that please? Wow, that’s a new one on me. Very striking. |
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 17, 2024 8:09:56 GMT -5
I don't think its certain they'd heard DYLW but I think DYLW is an extremely strong track with millions of hooks - more hooks than a junior school cloak room as someone once said |
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 17, 2024 8:43:31 GMT -5
Honestly, there is nothing on Smile besides Good Vibrations that would have made it as a Top 20 single release. I am not sure that a Smile version of Heroes and Villains would have been catchy enough. To my ears, Wind Chimes has the catchiest refrain and the Boys’ typical harmonies. Though, I still don’t believe it would have been a chart climber. Don’t you think “She’s Going Bald” was a missed opportunity for a hit single? It would have gone straight to the top! 😉 |
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Post by jds on Jun 17, 2024 8:45:09 GMT -5
I couldn't recommend DLYW as a single without knowing what the melody is. Even if we had a melody, you still have Van Dyke's obstacle course lyrics to deal with.
Rush-releasing Wind Chimes (October '66 version) would have solved a lot of problems for the group, it's probably the most accessible and fully-realized track from the sessions in addition to being an unqualified banger.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 17, 2024 9:26:21 GMT -5
Honestly, there is nothing on Smile besides Good Vibrations that would have made it as a Top 20 single release. I am not sure that a Smile version of Heroes and Villains would have been catchy enough. To my ears, Wind Chimes has the catchiest refrain and the Boys’ typical harmonies. Though, I still don’t believe it would have been a chart climber. Don’t you think “She’s Going Bald” was a missed opportunity for a hit single? It would have gone straight to the top! 😉 It wasn’t on Smile, but for Smiley Smile, maybe a back to the studio version of With Me Tonight. |
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Post by Mopp on Jun 17, 2024 9:35:15 GMT -5
I forgot about GV - I think Brian put it on to please the record company - it doesn't fit at all does it..? I keep hearing this, and I just don't buy that it "doesn't fit" on Smile. It fits just fine, from a sonic perspective. I can see Brian feeling pressure to include it on Smiley Smile where it absolutely doesn't fit the cozy, homespun beauty of that album. For Smile? It was recorded right in the middle of the sessions. Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Look, Holidays, and a version of Our Prayer were all at least partially tracked before it was finished. It is a Smile track. |
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Post by jds on Jun 17, 2024 10:06:27 GMT -5
I forgot about GV - I think Brian put it on to please the record company - it doesn't fit at all does it..? I keep hearing this, and I just don't buy that it "doesn't fit" on Smile. It fits just fine, from a sonic perspective. I can see Brian feeling pressure to include it on Smiley Smile where it absolutely doesn't fit the cozy, homespun beauty of that album. For Smile? It was recorded right in the middle of the sessions. Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Look, Holidays, and a version of Our Prayer were all at least partially tracked before it was finished. It is a Smile track. Bad opinion writing and chronological confusion have fooled people into the idea that Smile at any point had tight thematic underpinnings. "Good Vibrations" doesn't fit compared to what, the song about teenagers having sex in the woods or the one about Brian's theoretically favorite food group? |
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