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Post by Mikie on Jun 23, 2024 18:39:56 GMT -5
I think Vegetables maybe could have been a hit if someone else sang it. Al sounds bored to me. A song like that needs a jauntier vocal. Jason, do you like the Laughing Gravy version? It's pretty good. But it flopped. Best case would have been to release the Smile version, not the released album cut version.
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jasonkt
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Post by jasonkt on Jun 23, 2024 20:49:33 GMT -5
I think Vegetables maybe could have been a hit if someone else sang it. Al sounds bored to me. A song like that needs a jauntier vocal. Jason, do you like the Laughing Gravy version? It's pretty good. But it flopped. Best case would have been to release the Smile version, not the released album cut version. Yes I have. It's fun, but sounds less commercial than the BB version and pretty primitive by comparison (IMO). I think the BB version needed a more playful vocal to show that they were in on the joke. Mike and Brian trading off, or a confident Dennis. Not to harp on Al, but he's in what I call his "My Three Sons" mode on that one. I agree- the Smile version is the best.
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 24, 2024 6:36:45 GMT -5
I think Vegetables is too clunky in the verses and too sparse. I think the only place it really takes off is the very end on the Smiley version with the bell sound and the chuckling - its fantastic.
I think there is a pop classic in there but it needed rearranging - just like H&V.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 24, 2024 9:40:55 GMT -5
Oh, and Gettin' Hungry probably didn't have much of a chance since it was released as by "Brian and Mike" instead of "The Beach Boys!" Sounds like Brian trying to placate Mike Love because he went and used another lyricist again (VDP), instead of being a good business decision. “Gettin' Hungry” released under the name "Brian and Mike" had about as much chance as The Rolling Stones single “In Another Land” which was released under the name “Bill Wyman” in December of the same year, 1967.
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jasonkt
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Post by jasonkt on Jun 24, 2024 14:49:35 GMT -5
I think Vegetables is too clunky in the verses and too sparse. I think the only place it really takes off is the very end on the Smiley version with the bell sound and the chuckling - its fantastic. I think there is a pop classic in there but it needed rearranging - just like H&V. I'm with you on H&V- I think the vocals are impressive, although IDK if I would have had Brian singing lead. It's the muddiness and production that pulls it down for me. Perhaps a more traditional rock performance with some creative flourishes would have made it a bigger hit. Smile is like the Magnificent Ambersons of rock. That perfect version may be out there.
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mike
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Post by mike on Jun 24, 2024 15:34:21 GMT -5
The early takes of H&V are much more powerful in the verses - the Cantina verse by Brian is great - the whole mix is much better. I think Vegetables is too clunky in the verses and too sparse. I think the only place it really takes off is the very end on the Smiley version with the bell sound and the chuckling - its fantastic. I think there is a pop classic in there but it needed rearranging - just like H&V. I'm with you on H&V- I think the vocals are impressive, although IDK if I would have had Brian singing lead. It's the muddiness and production that pulls it down for me. Perhaps a more traditional rock performance with some creative flourishes would have made it a bigger hit. Smile is like the Magnificent Ambersons of rock. That perfect version may be out there.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Jun 25, 2024 15:59:48 GMT -5
Do we have a definitive answer if the Vega-tables bells overdub is from april's SMiLE era?
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Post by Micha on Jun 26, 2024 4:18:12 GMT -5
I think Vegetables maybe could have been a hit if someone else sang it. Al sounds bored to me. A song like that needs a jauntier vocal. 100% with you there. Al sounds as if Brian had told him to sing as if he was a vegetable. Al was absolutely capable of delivering a better performance. The cornucopia version is best in vocal performance. However, I like the Smiley version better, it doesn't have this clunky rhythm. Do we have a definitive answer if the Vega-tables bells overdub is from april's SMiLE era? Hadn't it been established it was Smiley era done with Brian's ever-present organ?
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Post by Micha on Jun 26, 2024 4:50:07 GMT -5
Hi Micha cheers for your thoughts. Here's my response: 1 - First section just 2 chords: in music the number of chords doesn't matter - what matters is what you're trying to express so 1 chord or 50 chords its all the same. 2 - Lone bass playing 2 notes is the right underpinning for the 'Plymouth Rock' lyrics - written by a master composer who wanted a specific effect. 3 - Weird lyric: spectacular writing that evokes modern America, the Founding Fathers, and the dark underbelly - all in just 8 words. Bob Dylan would have been jealous. 4 - Abrupt/incoherent change: the ascending notes of the last 'overerrr' perfectly builds up and melds into the BR theme. 5 - BR theme 'building up nicely': building up to what..? You're comparing it to the imaginary version in your head. 6 - Dead stop: so what..? Loads of songs have dead stops. 7 - I-IV chord progression: its a lovely haunting section that I suspect is missing lyrics. Or not. Either way the amount of chords doesn't matter - its chant based as is a lot of Smile. Its a very logically worked out song: sea shanty - BR - sea shanty - BR - Hawaii - BR. Can't argue with you if you don't like it - if everyone liked the same the world would be very boring eh ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) 1 - Well, what does Brian want to express with these two chords? If SMiLE really was a further development from Pet Sounds, I'd expect more interesting chord progressions, like on Wonderful or the Cabin Essence verses. 2 - Even master composers don't always compose at the height of their capabilities... 3 - I'm not really certain Bob Dylan would agree with you there... ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) As a not-American not-native English speaker I first heard it as "Rock rock roll play myth rock roll over". And the contemporary German listeners who loved Sloop John B. so much it got to #1 here in 1966 would have understood as much of the lyrics as they did of Sloop's lyrics: next to nothing. 4 - Disagree respectfully. 5 - First the two chords instrumentally, then with vocals and more instruments, that's what I mean with "building up", and that's what makes it interesting with even only two chords. The next step in this "building up", as I've called it, would be the second half of BR, but instead a dead stop where it absolutely makes no sense to me. Of course, as an artist, you can do whatever you like, but can't expect to somebody else enjoying that. I'd guess that Brian later thought it wasn't a good idea to break up the BR theme after all, so he put it back together for use in H&V. 6 - Dead stops are okay if they make sense, but it doesn't to me here. I think the dead stops in "The Little Girl I Once Knew" do make sense, and even those seem to have put off singles buyers and/or radio dickjockeys, so DYLW wouldn't have been even less a good choice for a single. 7 - It's definitely the most interestingly arranged section of the piece and it's a pity the previous sections don't have more interesting chord progressions, because then this would be an interesting contrast. The first section doesn't feel like a sea shanty to me at all. BTW, even Good Vibrations has its I-IV-I chord progression section in the first bridge, and it's done marvelously. This section contributes to GV being a fitting track on SMiLE, if you think it shouldn't have been on it.
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