|
Post by Mopp on Dec 13, 2022 6:49:52 GMT -5
I said elsewhere that I saw Don and talk to him at Mike's interview at the Grammy Museum and Don was just over the top with pride and enthusiasm in having his song on the album, as he had his previous one on the previous album. So not that he would tell me everything but he certainly wasn't going around frowning worrying about the vocal part being taken out so I don't know if there is a backstory there but when I saw Don he was smiling ear to ear and was overjoyed about his song being on the album. But I agree with you that I would sure like to hear it and could see no reason for it being taken out. That certainly IS curious that his vocals were removed from v1 of out in the country. I'm guessing, then, that you have actually heard this vocal rendition? I have scoured the net for it but, so far, no luck. Would it be ok for me to ask where you heard it? If I remember correctly, Don Goldberg himself uploaded it to Youtube some years ago. Unfortunately they have since been removed.
|
|
|
Post by smash em now on Dec 13, 2022 10:52:33 GMT -5
Starts around the 41 second mark in this video:
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2022 11:30:15 GMT -5
Starts around the 41 second mark in this video: Thank you so much for the link! So the question is why did they not put it on the box set? Or as I just asked it 'whyyyyyyyyy?!' Seriously though, Teeter Totter Love is good with a non group member vocal but not this? Mind boggles. Just to save pennies and not have to pay more royalties? God Only Knows. Thanks again for sharing the video.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 13, 2022 11:33:41 GMT -5
Starts around the 41 second mark in this video: Thank you so much for the link! So the question is why did they not put it on the box set? Or as I just asked it 'whyyyyyyyyy?!' Seriously though, Teeter Totter Love is good with a non group member vocal but not this? Mind boggles. Just to save pennies and not have to pay more royalties? God Only Knows. Thanks again for sharing the video. Version 1 actually works better as an instrumental. It is the only one that I like.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2022 11:36:44 GMT -5
I very much dig it as an instrumental too. It's just weird to think that they would remove a vocal for an all encompassing box set. Must be a good reason I suppose. Maybe, like yourself, the band just preferred it without the vocals.
|
|
|
Post by longtime lurker on Dec 13, 2022 12:37:50 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the link! So the question is why did they not put it on the box set? Or as I just asked it 'whyyyyyyyyy?!' Seriously though, Teeter Totter Love is good with a non group member vocal but not this? Mind boggles. Just to save pennies and not have to pay more royalties? God Only Knows. Thanks again for sharing the video. Version 1 actually works better as an instrumental. It is the only one that I like. Let's face it...whoever was behind the assembly of this set and FF made some very curious decisions regarding what tracks to include and exclude and also made some editing choices that most of us hardcore BB fans find baffling & disappointing (to say the least). For me, as regards this current set, I'm pretty happy with what we got, while still acknowledging the many things that could have been included but (for whatever reason, which we'll likely never know for sure) weren't. I'm not saying that those who are really miffed about the exclusions and editing choices don't have a right to their feelings, but I'm still impressed at the amount of archival material that did get green-lit for release (though I'll admit it's quite a bit less than was included on FF).
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2022 12:58:46 GMT -5
Version 1 actually works better as an instrumental. It is the only one that I like. Let's face it...whoever was behind the assembly of this set and FF made some very curious decisions regarding what tracks to include and exclude and also made some editing choices that most of us hardcore BB fans find baffling & disappointing (to say the least). For me, as regards this current set, I'm pretty happy with what we got, while still acknowledging the many things that could have been included but (for whatever reason, which we'll likely never know for sure) weren't. I'm not saying that those who are really miffed about the exclusions and editing choices don't have a right to their feelings, but I'm still impressed at the amount of archival material that did get green-lit for release (though I'll admit it's quite a bit less than was included on FF). Absolutely, well put. I'm always grateful for any new or archival release from my favourite group even if I'm sometimes baffled by choices made. I was going to say 'they will always have my money' and they will, hopefully next year when the price comes down and I can reasonably afford it They can have my myriad of Spotify clicks in the meantime
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 18, 2022 5:34:18 GMT -5
There is really a problem with the live version of let the wind blow. The track is the same than the one on the "in concert"album. Exactly! Every guitar impro or solo, every part of drum. The vocal part is different. It seems they mixed 2 versions of this song. I've listen to this song on other 1972 concerts. (Luxembourg, Munich). Blondie never did the sames solos and the same impros. Well, it's not possible in fact. There is a problem here.
|
|
|
Post by longtime lurker on Dec 18, 2022 9:36:14 GMT -5
There is really a problem with the live version of let the wind blow. The track is the same than the one on the "in concert"album. Exactly! Every guitar impro or solo, every part of drum. The vocal part is different. It seems they mixed 2 versions of this song. I've listen to this song on other 1972 concerts. (Luxembourg, Munich). Blondie never did the sames solos and the same impros. Well, it's not possible in fact. There is a problem here. That's unfortunate to hear. ☹️. I may be wrong, but it sounds like the instrumental/music track under the vocals was unsatisfactory in some way but the vocal track was excellent, so they put the vocals onto the 1973 In Concert version and hoped nobody would notice. Whoever produces these BB archival releases, they seem to forget there is a SIGNIFICANT percentage of us who can be accurately defined as "obsessives" who know EVERY second of every piece of music (studio or live) ever released by this band, and if any editing-room nonsense is present on any of these archival releases, trust us, we WILL uncover it sooner or later! Good catch.
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 18, 2022 13:26:41 GMT -5
Yes. We know every note of each songs after all those years. And, this version of ltwb, I love it so much! I have listen to it thousands of times!
|
|
bjl
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 52
Likes: 65
|
Post by bjl on Dec 18, 2022 21:39:11 GMT -5
There is really a problem with the live version of let the wind blow. The track is the same than the one on the "in concert"album. Exactly! Every guitar impro or solo, every part of drum. The vocal part is different. It seems they mixed 2 versions of this song. I've listen to this song on other 1972 concerts. (Luxembourg, Munich). Blondie never did the sames solos and the same impros. Well, it's not possible in fact. There is a problem here.
I don't think this is true. According to wikipedia, the In Concert version of Let The Wind Blow was recorded on Nov. 19, 1972 in New Jersey, just a few days before the Carnegie Hall show, so it's not that surprising that the arrangements would be very close. I cued up the guitar solos on youtube and listened to them back to back, and I'm sure they're two different performances. Right before the wordless vocals come in you can here there is a different rhythm, and there are a number of other places where the attack / sustain have pretty different qualities, although they are definitely surprisingly close.
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 19, 2022 7:43:21 GMT -5
There is really a problem with the live version of let the wind blow. The track is the same than the one on the "in concert"album. Exactly! Every guitar impro or solo, every part of drum. The vocal part is different. It seems they mixed 2 versions of this song. I've listen to this song on other 1972 concerts. (Luxembourg, Munich). Blondie never did the sames solos and the same impros. Well, it's not possible in fact. There is a problem here.
I don't think this is true. According to wikipedia, the In Concert version of Let The Wind Blow was recorded on Nov. 19, 1972 in New Jersey, just a few days before the Carnegie Hall show, so it's not that surprising that the arrangements would be very close. I cued up the guitar solos on youtube and listened to them back to back, and I'm sure they're two different performances. Right before the wordless vocals come in you can here there is a different rhythm, and there are a number of other places where the attack / sustain have pretty different qualities, although they are definitely surprisingly close.
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 19, 2022 7:51:52 GMT -5
I don't think this is true. According to wikipedia, the In Concert version of Let The Wind Blow was recorded on Nov. 19, 1972 in New Jersey, just a few days before the Carnegie Hall show, so it's not that surprising that the arrangements would be very close. I cued up the guitar solos on youtube and listened to them back to back, and I'm sure they're two different performances. Right before the wordless vocals come in you can here there is a different rhythm, and there are a number of other places where the attack / sustain have pretty different qualities, although they are definitely surprisingly close.
The guitar and the drums are exactly the same just a very very light overdrive on the new version but they could have change the sound in the studio. No, they could'nt have played exactly the same thing. This is not an "original and classic solo", like for exemple, the "hotel california" one. This is just a impro. For exemple, you won't me believe that the organ solo of "leaving this town" of the "in concert" lp, could have been played exactly the same way another day. Just impossible! This is not the first time such things happen. We all had the knebworth show before its official released. And the guitar solo in fun fun fun isn't the same that the one they played in the show. Not Carl's style. Another exemple, one bar is missing in the guitar solo of ktsa. Why?
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 19, 2022 11:37:54 GMT -5
The guitar and the drums are exactly the same just a very very light overdrive on the new version but they could have change the sound in the studio. No, they could'nt have played exactly the same thing. This is not an "original and classic solo", like for exemple, the "hotel california" one. This is just a impro. For exemple, you won't me believe that the organ solo of "leaving this town" of the "in concert" lp, could have been played exactly the same way another day. Just impossible! This is not the first time such things happen. We all had the knebworth show before its official released. And the guitar solo in fun fun fun isn't the same that the one they played in the show. Not Carl's style. Another exemple, one bar is missing in the guitar solo of ktsa. Why? I suppose there was some issue(s) with the performance. You know, like Brian’s issue with Fun Fun Fun on the Concert album and almost faking us out with an in-studio Lei’d In Hawaii album, because he wasn’t happy with the real performances.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Dec 21, 2022 21:20:59 GMT -5
Finally got some time to dive fully into and through this set and wow, great stuff.
The live show is a highlight and, like others have said, one I’ll return to for sure. I much prefer taking in a whole show rather than a random bunch of live tracks from different years that I’ll maybe listen to a couple of times and then never again.
It’s weird because even though Feel Flows is such an embarrassment of riches from the group I’ll probably return to this set more.
Part of that is maybe because a lot of the great stuff on Feel Flows had been previously officially released or widely booted. The new Denny stuff on FF was a wonderful revelation though. But yeah if I hadn’t heard stuff like Soulful Old Man Sunshine, Games Two Can Play, HELP etc I would have been blown away. I suppose part of the charm of FF alongside all the ‘making of’ tracks is just having it all in one place in a great package.
But yeah, Sail On Sailor has a better flow I think largely because of the live set anchoring the middle of it.
Hearing the backing tracks to Holland was amazing. It made me think how lucky we are when ‘back in the day’ (!) we had to wait in eager anticipation hoping the band would sort their issues out for long enough to get the Pet Sounds set released! Super glad the early 70s era has now had the same treatment all these years later 🙏
If I have one disappointment it’s that we didn’t get remixed albums. Some of the new mixes of individual tracks are great and the backing tracks sound soooo good. Kind of a missed opportunity for me, and a small shame that the original albums on FF and SoS 1972 I will likely never play again. More than that if I were to put the box sets on a device to listen to whilst travelling or something I’d replace the original albums with the previous versions we already had. But you know, I’m very appreciative for what we have been treated to.
Enough blab from me, I’m off to listen to Gimme Some Lovin’ for the millionth time today 😂
|
|
|
Post by surfinimp on Dec 23, 2022 9:02:40 GMT -5
Often wondered whose singing background vocals on the " Beaks of Eagles" the cyclical " do,do,do do,do,do... " . Sounds female....Marilyn, Diane or even Lynda Jardine ? Any official confirmation?
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 24, 2022 7:21:39 GMT -5
Often wondered whose singing background vocals on the " Beaks of Eagles" the cyclical " do,do,do do,do,do... " . Sounds female....Marilyn, Diane or even Lynda Jardine ? Any official confirmation? In the trader, I think Marylin and/or Diane are here too...
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Dec 24, 2022 15:43:27 GMT -5
I decided to investigate this whole thing about how "Let the Wind Blow" is the same as the Passaic version but with different vocals. In short, here are my findings:
- YUP.
- The powers that be knew what they were doing, too, because the speed was digitally altered. I found that slowing down the tempo of the entire SOS track by .85% gives almost a perfect match -- until the very end of the guitar solo, at which point the SOS version is suddenly faster than the In Concert version, at which point I slowed the rest of the track down by .5%.
Left side = In Concert version [folded to mono], right side = Carnegie version [again, folded down to mono]
Seriously, folks -- anybody who makes these decisions who's reading this (I've heard there are people involved who read EVERYTHING on these forums) -- STOP DOING THIS CRAP. Just give us what it claims to be. Do NOT "improve" things. Give us what the audience heard! What's so hard about that? Eff eff ess, that's less work for you, too!
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 24, 2022 16:44:13 GMT -5
I decided to investigate this whole thing about how "Let the Wind Blow" is the same as the Passaic version but with different vocals. In short, here are my findings:
- YUP.
- The powers that be knew what they were doing, too, because the speed was digitally altered. I found that slowing down the tempo of the entire SOS track by .85% gives almost a perfect match -- until the very end of the guitar solo, at which point the SOS version is suddenly faster than the In Concert version, at which point I slowed the rest of the track down by .5%.
Left side = In Concert version [folded to mono], right side = Carnegie version [again, folded down to mono]
Seriously, folks -- anybody who makes these decisions who's reading this (I've heard there are people involved who read EVERYTHING on these forums) -- STOP DOING THIS CRAP. Just give us what it claims to be. Do NOT "improve" things. Give us what the audience heard! What's so hard about that? Eff eff ess, that's less work for you, too!
Ask yourself, what would have Brian done here? If there was a performance issue, which I am assuming there was, would Brian have left it be or try and correct it some way? Hell, he tried to fake us out with a sped up version of the studio Fun Fun Fun on Concert. He almost gave us an in-studio Lei’d In Hawaii live album. What Mark Linett did here is well within acceptable limits of fixing an issue. At least he used a live performance from 4 days earlier. I have no complaints for him fixing an issue that may make repeated listening easier to listen to.
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Dec 24, 2022 17:02:00 GMT -5
The thing is, what Brian was doing was for an album of new material. SOS is an archival release that, you would think, would want to give us a warts-and-all kind of thing. Heck, if Mark & company wanted to release something that was listenable, he wouldn't include, say, incomplete demos. Sets like this are for ***completists*** and obsessives. It's not for the mainstream crowd who expects it to be perfect. For something like this, I want the flaws untouched. I don't mind that the concert is Frankensteined from two separate shows, but to put in elements that were in neither and to say they were from either is just wrong.
I will admit, though, I still love the Carnegie Franken-concert, and I predict I'll give it many more listens than I ever gave The Beach Boys In Concert, an album I've loved dearly for thirty years.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 24, 2022 17:11:48 GMT -5
The thing is, what Brian was doing was for an album of new material. SOS is an archival release that, you would think, would want to give us a warts-and-all kind of thing. Heck, if Mark & company wanted to release something that was listenable, he wouldn't include, say, incomplete demos. Sets like this are for ***completists*** and obsessive. It's not for the mainstream crowd who expects it to be perfect. For something like this, I want the flaws untouched. I don't mind that the concert is Frankensteined from two separate shows, but to put in elements that were in neither and to say they were from either is just wrong. I will admit, though, I still love the Carnegie Franken-concert, and I predict I'll give it many more listens than I ever gave The Beach Boys In Concert, an album I've loved dearly for thirty years. I love In Concert. I play it all the time and have so for nearly 50 years. Basically, the best performances of certain songs. I find it strange that Carl felt nothing from the Carnegie shows was worth including, considering that he used 5 songs from the Capitol Theater shows from 4 days prior. But don’t get me wrong, I love having the full Carnegie Hall show.
|
|
|
Post by mustomax on Dec 25, 2022 14:37:58 GMT -5
I decided to investigate this whole thing about how "Let the Wind Blow" is the same as the Passaic version but with different vocals. In short, here are my findings:
- YUP.
- The powers that be knew what they were doing, too, because the speed was digitally altered. I found that slowing down the tempo of the entire SOS track by .85% gives almost a perfect match -- until the very end of the guitar solo, at which point the SOS version is suddenly faster than the In Concert version, at which point I slowed the rest of the track down by .5%.
Left side = In Concert version [folded to mono], right side = Carnegie version [again, folded down to mono]
Seriously, folks -- anybody who makes these decisions who's reading this (I've heard there are people involved who read EVERYTHING on these forums) -- STOP DOING THIS CRAP. Just give us what it claims to be. Do NOT "improve" things. Give us what the audience heard! What's so hard about that? Eff eff ess, that's less work for you, too!
Thanks! The first I heard the SOS version, I was sure of this.I love the IC version so much. I listen to it very often.
|
|
|
Post by ohm on Dec 26, 2022 5:54:57 GMT -5
The thing is, what Brian was doing was for an album of new material. SOS is an archival release that, you would think, would want to give us a warts-and-all kind of thing. For me, this sums up the whole SOS box. It’s nowhere near warty enough for me. All that missing material, edits of the work tapes, doctored live recordings… it feels to me as if the whole thing suffered from the kind of over-preparation and death by a million committees I’d usually associate with new releases rather than deep dive archival sets aimed at hardcore fans.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Dec 26, 2022 8:11:36 GMT -5
The thing is, what Brian was doing was for an album of new material. SOS is an archival release that, you would think, would want to give us a warts-and-all kind of thing. For me, this sums up the whole SOS box. It’s nowhere near warty enough for me. All that missing material, edits of the work tapes, doctored live recordings… it feels to me as if the whole thing suffered from the kind of over-preparation and death by a million committees I’d usually associate with new releases rather than deep dive archival sets aimed at hardcore fans. Well, according to Howie, Sail On Sailor and Feel Flows wasn’t aimed at we hardcore fans.
|
|
|
Post by John Manning on Dec 26, 2022 8:24:56 GMT -5
For me, this sums up the whole SOS box. It’s nowhere near warty enough for me. All that missing material, edits of the work tapes, doctored live recordings… it feels to me as if the whole thing suffered from the kind of over-preparation and death by a million committees I’d usually associate with new releases rather than deep dive archival sets aimed at hardcore fans. Well, according to Howie, Sail On Sailor and Feel Flows wasn’t aimed at we hardcore fans. Seems to have been aimed at millionaires…
|
|