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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 17:14:20 GMT -5
My Smile mix is coming along. I think in order to create the sound I want, I'm just going to recreate the whole album. It shouldn't be a problem instrumentally, but vocally might be a challenge, but I'll worry about that when I get there. My favorite part of my Smile mix is the outro. I feel I've found a good way to close the album, and it goes:
- Surf's Up - Child Is Father of the Man - The Old Master Painter - You're Welcome
"Surf's Up" is a little different in my mix. I'm following the rewrite Brian made of it. In this version, the song will end on F#m7 (instead of the orig Fm7). This way, I can hard cut from "Surf's Up" to "Child Is Father of the Man" (which is in the key of F#m7). I've made a lot of tests with this and it sounds great.
"Child Is Father of the Man" segues beautifully into "The Old Master Painter". In "The Old Master Painter", I've added the "Heroes and Villains: Prelude to Fade" after the cello decent in part 1, and this addition serves as a Finale for the album, closing the "Heroes and Villains" arc. Then the wonderful fadeout.
"You're Welcome" will be slightly different, and more fleshed out vocally. And it sounds great coming after "The Old Master Painter" fadeout (the fadeout literally fades out on the C# chord, and "You're Welcome" is in the key of C#).
Still working on the beginning of the album however, (that's where the real problems are). Can't figure out where to go after "I Ran".
Another huge stump is "Love to Say Dada". I have an idea of where to go with it conceptually, but musically I can't decide on how Brian would've pieced it together (the key changes baffle me).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -5
Sounds like a really interesting sequence leetwall. Really looking forward to hearing it when it's done.
Are you comfortable saying what songs are left to choose from after Look? Maybe we could offer suggestions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 18:14:30 GMT -5
Sounds like a really interesting sequence leetwall. Really looking forward to hearing it when it's done. Are you comfortable saying what songs are left to choose from after Look? Maybe we could offer suggestions. Thanks! Oddly enough, this sequence doesn't make the music sound as interesting as we're used to, because the different sections don't stand out as much. They kinda flow into one another. I'm definitely comfortable sharing the options I'm considering for "I Ran"! I'd love to hear suggestions, because sometimes I get so swarmed in this I have to take time away from it. At the moment in my mix, "I Ran" ends here (https://youtu.be/GN7Idw0NLDQ?t=248). The 12th street rag fadeout section comes in later in the album, before "Heroes and Villains". I can't figure out if I should go into "Wonderful", "He Gives Speeches" or maybe even "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 (aka Gee)".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 23:49:28 GMT -5
Sounds like a really interesting sequence leetwall. Really looking forward to hearing it when it's done. Are you comfortable saying what songs are left to choose from after Look? Maybe we could offer suggestions. Thanks! Oddly enough, this sequence doesn't make the music sound as interesting as we're used to, because the different sections don't stand out as much. They kinda flow into one another. I'm definitely comfortable sharing the options I'm considering for "I Ran"! I'd love to hear suggestions, because sometimes I get so swarmed in this I have to take time away from it. At the moment in my mix, "I Ran" ends here (https://youtu.be/GN7Idw0NLDQ?t=248). The 12th street rag fadeout section comes in later in the album, before "Heroes and Villains". I can't figure out if I should go into "Wonderful", "He Gives Speeches" or maybe even "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 (aka Gee)". Personally, I'd say anything that mixes things up from the usual frameworks we've seen a million times (BWPS sequences, America/Elements groupings) is a welcome change. I'm pretty set in my one ways when it comes to this music but I really like seeing something new as well. Don't let my opinion decide for you, especially if you're already leaning in a certain direction for yourself. Obviously my first instinct is to go with Wonderful. But once again, we've seen that pairing a million times already. I haven't heard for myself yet, but my first instinct tells me HGS wouldn't work very well. I suspect Gee would sound like a much better transition.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 9:39:14 GMT -5
Be sure to keep us posted, @lee31. Your work on SMiLE is greatly appreciated, you know.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 20:18:26 GMT -5
I can't figure out if I should go into "Wonderful", "He Gives Speeches" or maybe even "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 (aka Gee)". Personally, I'd say anything that mixes things up from the usual frameworks we've seen a million times (BWPS sequences, America/Elements groupings) is a welcome change. I'm pretty set in my own ways when it comes to this music but I really like seeing something new as well. Don't let my opinion decide for you, especially if you're already leaning in a certain direction for yourself. Obviously my first instinct is to go with Wonderful. But once again, we've seen that pairing a million times already. I haven't heard for myself yet, but my first instinct tells me HGS wouldn't work very well. I suspect Gee would sound like a much better transition. Haha I understand where you're coming from, we've all heard the same sequences a lot by this point. I just want to go where the music takes me, and I want the very best transitions possible. But the sound I'm aiming for in my mix will be something very very new, which is what Smile was supposed to be. Like your awesome opinion, I've decided to go with "Wonderful". I've spend the past week or so studying all the possibilities, and "Wonderful" is the best option. "Wonderful" will cut into "He Gives Speeches" at the end, which will cut back into the '12th street rag reprise' from the end of "I Ran". You are right about how Gee would be an awesome transition. Not only is it in the correct key, but it carries over the same rhythm from "I Ran". It was very tempting to go that route, but I had to shoot it down because it doesn't make much sense to hear a "Heroes and Villains" Part 2 chant when we haven't even heard "Heroes and Villains" yet. I'm also not convinced that the H&V chants would have even been on the album. Now I need to decided where to go after the '12th street rag reprise'. "I Ran" goes into a fadeout, but I'm not so sure about that. Brian always said that the album was designed as a 2-suite listening experience, and if we've bypassed the fadeout of "Good Vibrations" to go into "I Ran", then I'd like to think the same would be done for "I Ran" as well. Be sure to keep us posted, @lee31 . Your work on SMiLE is greatly appreciated, you know. I certainly will, jk! You're appreciation for my Smile work is also greatly appreciated!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 18:23:16 GMT -5
"He Gives Speeches"...include or discard? I see some use it as a bonus track and some work it into their mix. I wish I could understand it or get a better grasp of it so I could attempt to put it where it might make sense. With my mix being a "kitchen sink" affair, right now "He Gives Speeches" is one of the few pieces not included - but I want to include it!
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bygone
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Post by bygone on Mar 8, 2019 9:23:21 GMT -5
Copying and slightly editing a post I made on Smiley Smile board a while ago (I go through my tracklist and provide links in the end):
I've been doing SMiLE-mixes every once in a while for ten years or so, and because I've now finally compiled a tracklist that seems pretty good to me from start to finish, I'm eager to share! This mix is based on a sequence proposed by Very Extremely Dan on this post: After trying out this sequence, I started shifting things around a little. My goal has always mainly been to find a SMiLE-mix that flows as flawlessly as possible and in this case I couldn't see how "Vega-tables" could follow "Cabinessence" without any transitional track(s) in between. Also,"Heroes and Villains" following "Good Vibrations" felt a bit clunky to me, so I started to look for link tracks or different sequence altogether. After lots and lots of obsessive tinkering during the past month, suddenly all the pieces seemed to fall in their right places. This happened after I gave up on the idea of "Elements-suite" ("I love to say dada" was omitted from this mix - as was "Holidays"). The current tracklist still basically follows the same template as the aforementioned sequence. It can be understood as two movements, first being the masculine "American progress" movement, and second the feminine "Destruction of the natives" movement. These are bookended by "Heroes and Villains parts 1 & 2" that work as a framing device similar to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band's "Sgt. Pepper"-songs, while "Good Vibrations" and "Surf's up" are the summaries of sorts ("Surf's up" being the final epiphany). So, my sequence goes like this: ----------------------------------------------------------- SIDE ONE (Masculine/American Progress) You're Welcome: Listener is welcomed to the album experience and the settlers to the "New world" of uncolonized American continent. Heroes and Villains Part 1: Cantina version with the "Sunshine"-version of the fade. The male protagonist tells his story. Do You like Worms: "Bicycle rider" is introduced and the ocean-crossing settlers start their movement across the continent. Ends with a fade as the rider continues his journey. CabinessenceVariation on Bicycle Rider's journey. Bicycle Rider theme: Picking up where "DYLW" ended, this instrumental track ends the "American gothic" phase of the album. As the music here evokes in my mind a ghostly image of some magnificent steam-locomotive, it feels suitable to place this track after "Cabinessence" which was about building the railways. Great Shape suite: a) Barnyard; b) I'm in great shape; c) I wanna be around/Workshop: Album shifts into a more comical phase as the settlers settle into a more domestic life. I put "Moaning laughing" into "Workshop" to lead into the next song: at the same moment when the moaning bursts into laughing, piano intro of "Vega-Tables" kicks in. Tedium of work (moaning) turns into joy of being alive (laughter - and getting high maybe?...). I also mixed "Swedish frog"-segment over "I wanna be around" because it fits there so well. Vega-tables: After working in barnyards and workshops, this song is about having fun and reaping the goods of the earth. I mixed an improved party-skit from "Psychedelic sounds" boot over the first "do a lot" chorus. I also edited dialog from "vegetable arguments" into the fade section to reconstruct a skit of Hal Blaine's landowner fighting off the young "punks" who have without a permit grown a vegetable garden on his land ("What do you think you're doing with a garden on my property?") You can read this dialog as continuation of the historical theme of the album: now the commons have been fenced off and all land turned into private property ("Get a job and buy some vegetables!"). Very happy with this fade now! Heroes and Villains Prelude: Consists of: "Mission pak"/"Bridge to Indians"/"Prelude to fade"/"Flutter horn". Edited into the ending of "Vega-tables" as if belonging to same song - this turned out to be a perfect fit! Gives an ending to the first movement of the album. Good vibrations: Basic single version. Continues the high energy of "Vega-tables" and caps the first side of the album. Works kind of as an interlude in the album context. Lyrics here are important, especially the line "Gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations happenin' with her" in the "persuasion" section. This can also been seen as the boy-meets-girl/falling-in-love moment within the narrative. SIDE TWO (Feminine/Destruction of the natives) Wonderful/LOOK!: "Wonderful" starts the feminine movement of the album and tells the story ("All fall down and lost in the mystery") of the female protagonist who apparently is/was a native american and the male protagonist's loved one (Margarita from the H&V's cantina-section?). These two tracks suggest innocence, beauty and wonder of the nature. H&V intro/Mrs. O'leary's Cow (Fire): Sudden arrival of the settlers & destruction of the native's villages and lands. Child is Father of the man:I structured this in this way: bridge/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge again with a fade out. I also laced it with various sound effects from "Bob Gordon's real trip" and "Burning wood session". As such this is about the damage done by the colonizers and serves as the darkest moment within the story. Water sounds during the verse suggest care and rebirth though. Wind chimes: Female protagonist (now an old woman?) remembering the dead ones and all that has been lost. (The chorus of this song sounds actually like exaggerated, cartoonish crying!) For the tag/fade I edited in dialog from "Taxi Cabber" tape and inserted some wailing horns from "George fell into a French horn" sessions. Idea was to increase the cacophony as the taxi cabber talks about the Chicago metropolitan area with its highways and airports and "the plains" now covered with several cities. This should tie into the themes of urbanization, alienation, air pollution etc. Wailing horns also suggest dead souls hovering in the winds. The fade brings a type of "lost in the world" feeling towards the end of the second movement. The Old Master Painter: Male protagonist (now an old, dying man?) lamenting lost love and lost blue skies (because of the smog maybe?). Our Prayer: A hymn (by a funeral-choir?) to end the second movement. Heroes and Villains Part 2: I Imagine this kind of like some burlesque show played in the afterlife in Heaven! Starts playfully with "Gee" and other chanting parts and goes into "Children were raised---healthy wealthy and wise" and "Sunny down snuff" sections. Ends with the chorus ("Heroes and villains, just see what you've done") and "Bridge to Indians" bringing definite closure. Surf's up: Caps the whole album and conveys the final message. I always like to hear this song in an extended form with the instrumental backing track as an intro. Hidden tracks: Couldn't decide which one to use so used both: first an obscure little track of oceanic waves mixed with a distantly heard "Surfin'" by the Beach Boys. (This is from a certain Smile mix which had first a tight 12-track album and then another disc called "The Big Grin" featuring extras. That mix was propably the first Smile mix I ever listened to and it was very well made. I have no other info about this track, but it might be a fan creation by the makers of that mix since I've not heard it elsewhere.) Second hidden track is a "Good Vibrations" reprise; the "persuasion" section with "hum-de-dum" chanting. I increased the volume gradually towards the ending note to create a similar effect as in "You're Welcome" that started the album. (If you'd open this particular track in an audio editing software, you'd see an image of a horn - an instrument that's quite prominent on the album. A cool little easter egg, I think!) -------------------------------------------------- And that's it for the album. I think every transition from track to track is pretty smooth (except maybe "Bicycle Rider theme" into "Barnyard" but it also kind of works imo) and the album flows well from beginning to end managing to tell the story in coherent way. Every piece of music, lyric and dialog is supposed to tie into the whole. First side is around 24 minutes and second side around 27 minutes; if I would've cut the instrumental backing track intro from "Surf's up" and removed the hidden tracks after it, the second side would have also been around 23-24 minutes. 48-51 minute length I consider not too long as that would have been at least theoretically plausible in the vinyl-era (The Rolling Stone's "Aftermath" released in 1966 clocked in at 53:20). All tracks are in mono. Best sounding mono mixes were used when possible and if not possible, stereo-mixes were just folded down to mono (no additional mixing soundwise by me). All editing was done in Audacity. Sources used on this mix (All lossless audio unless otherwise noted): The Smile Sessions: 5-cd, 2-cd & the Vinyl Set Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of The Beach Boys Soniclovenoize's Smile-mixes Mok's Smile SOT Unsurpassed Masters vol. 17 Smiley Smile / Wild Honey (90's cd) Psychedelic Sounds (lossy mp3) (used on tracks "CIFOTM", "Vega-tables" and "Wind Chimes") Hermit & Devoir - Smile/The Big Grin (lossy wma) (used on a hidden track after "Surf's up") ------------------------------------------------------ tl;dr: A SMiLE mix that aims to flow as smoothly as possible from start to finish telling a 2-movement story of "American progress" & "Destruction of the natives" in a logical, coherent manner. The most unique individual edits on the mix: "Vega-tables", "Child is father of the man", "Wind Chimes". Flacs: www.dropbox.com/sh/eut971t7d5em4k8/AAClUSgSfOgXiHPPP7glRPlCa?dl=0Thanks to everyone who've contributed their sequencing ideas and/or their mixes regarding SMiLE. Special thanks to Very Extremely Dan whose ideas and tracklist proposals I chose to follow on this mix.
------------------------------------------------------------
After posting this on Smiley Smile forum, I've started to have reservations about this mix - it feels kind of disjointed maybe, especially towards the end, and I'm not sure if it really works emotionally like intended - but anyway, here it is again. More "Dumb Angel" in spirit than "SMiLE".
If you're interested, please check out at least "Vega-Tables", "Wind Chimes" and "Child is father of the man" as they have some edits I've not heard elsewhere, and I'd like to hear people's thoughts about them. Otherwise this mix is mostly just about sequencing.
In future I will propably try to incorporate "The Elements" back in to the mix. HERE's a version of that track I made a while ago (it includes an "Air pollution segment", which is Brian's "Smog" speech edited into an early take of "I love to say dada" with sound effects and breathing/gasping sounds from "Breathing chant").
Also, HERE's an alternate version of Vega-tables (with cornucopia-lyrics) and HERE an alternate version of Heroes and Villains Part 1.
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bygone
Grommet
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Post by bygone on Mar 8, 2019 14:06:56 GMT -5
"Tune X" - do you put it on your SMiLE mix? If yes, where? I see that saltymarshmallow includes it as a bonus track. If no, why not? I've many times experimented with it on my mixes, putting it at the end of the album close to "Surf's up" (which has always been the closer for me). I see "Tune X" fitting there well because it has the feel of finality in it, something akin to closing credits (those hawaiian slide guitars...).
So, maybe in the "kitchen sink" version of the album, otherwise a bonus track definitely (paired with "I don't know" as an intro).
I've yet to hear a mix that includes this without causing mainly an annoying break in the flow of the album. But I can see your "pain" - I think this track with it's lyrics is pretty good and would like to find a way to make it work in the album context too! It can have relevance to the album's themes as implied by iluvleniloud in the thread "Mujan's Complete "Thesis" On Smile" on this board.
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Tilt Araiza
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Post by Tilt Araiza on Mar 8, 2019 16:56:13 GMT -5
Here's mine. 12 tracks with fades (except for one track), all in New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo (except for one track). drive.google.com/open?id=1ZjFMbj8QIQ5-AcHyBowR0FH2mbySXt6IPrayer Do You Like Worms Wind Chimes Heroes And Villains I'm In Great Shape Cabin Essence
Wonderful Child Is Father Of The Man Vega-Tables Fire Surf's Up Good Vibrations
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 13:40:36 GMT -5
So, my sequence goes like this: ----------------------------------------------------------- SIDE ONE (Masculine/American Progress) You're Welcome: Listener is welcomed to the album experience and the settlers to the "New world" of uncolonized American continent. Heroes and Villains Part 1: Cantina version with the "Sunshine"-version of the fade. The male protagonist tells his story. Do You like Worms: "Bicycle rider" is introduced and the ocean-crossing settlers start their movement across the continent. Ends with a fade as the rider continues his journey. CabinessenceVariation on Bicycle Rider's journey. Bicycle Rider theme: Picking up where "DYLW" ended, this instrumental track ends the "American gothic" phase of the album. As the music here evokes in my mind a ghostly image of some magnificent steam-locomotive, it feels suitable to place this track after "Cabinessence" which was about building the railways. Great Shape suite: a) Barnyard; b) I'm in great shape; c) I wanna be around/Workshop: Album shifts into a more comical phase as the settlers settle into a more domestic life. I put "Moaning laughing" into "Workshop" to lead into the next song: at the same moment when the moaning bursts into laughing, piano intro of "Vega-Tables" kicks in. Tedium of work (moaning) turns into joy of being alive (laughter - and getting high maybe?...). I also mixed "Swedish frog"-segment over "I wanna be around" because it fits there so well. Vega-tables: After working in barnyards and workshops, this song is about having fun and reaping the goods of the earth. I mixed an improved party-skit from "Psychedelic sounds" boot over the first "do a lot" chorus. I also edited dialog from "vegetable arguments" into the fade section to reconstruct a skit of Hal Blaine's landowner fighting off the young "punks" who have without a permit grown a vegetable garden on his land ("What do you think you're doing with a garden on my property?") You can read this dialog as continuation of the historical theme of the album: now the commons have been fenced off and all land turned into private property ("Get a job and buy some vegetables!"). Very happy with this fade now! Heroes and Villains Prelude: Consists of: "Mission pak"/"Bridge to Indians"/"Prelude to fade"/"Flutter horn". Edited into the ending of "Vega-tables" as if belonging to same song - this turned out to be a perfect fit! Gives an ending to the first movement of the album. Good vibrations: Basic single version. Continues the high energy of "Vega-tables" and caps the first side of the album. Works kind of as an interlude in the album context. Lyrics here are important, especially the line "Gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations happenin' with her" in the "persuasion" section. This can also been seen as the boy-meets-girl/falling-in-love moment within the narrative. SIDE TWO (Feminine/Destruction of the natives) Wonderful/LOOK!: "Wonderful" starts the feminine movement of the album and tells the story ("All fall down and lost in the mystery") of the female protagonist who apparently is/was a native american and the male protagonist's loved one (Margarita from the H&V's cantina-section?). These two tracks suggest innocence, beauty and wonder of the nature. H&V intro/Mrs. O'leary's Cow (Fire): Sudden arrival of the settlers & destruction of the native's villages and lands. Child is Father of the man:I structured this in this way: bridge/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge again with a fade out. I also laced it with various sound effects from "Bob Gordon's real trip" and "Burning wood session". As such this is about the damage done by the colonizers and serves as the darkest moment within the story. Water sounds during the verse suggest care and rebirth though. Wind chimes: Female protagonist (now an old woman?) remembering the dead ones and all that has been lost. (The chorus of this song sounds actually like exaggerated, cartoonish crying!) For the tag/fade I edited in dialog from "Taxi Cabber" tape and inserted some wailing horns from "George fell into a French horn" sessions. Idea was to increase the cacophony as the taxi cabber talks about the Chicago metropolitan area with its highways and airports and "the plains" now covered with several cities. This should tie into the themes of urbanization, alienation, air pollution etc. Wailing horns also suggest dead souls hovering in the winds. The fade brings a type of "lost in the world" feeling towards the end of the second movement. The Old Master Painter: Male protagonist (now an old, dying man?) lamenting lost love and lost blue skies (because of the smog maybe?). Our Prayer: A hymn (by a funeral-choir?) to end the second movement. Heroes and Villains Part 2: I Imagine this kind of like some burlesque show played in the afterlife in Heaven! Starts playfully with "Gee" and other chanting parts and goes into "Children were raised---healthy wealthy and wise" and "Sunny down snuff" sections. Ends with the chorus ("Heroes and villains, just see what you've done") and "Bridge to Indians" bringing definite closure. Surf's up: Caps the whole album and conveys the final message. I always like to hear this song in an extended form with the instrumental backing track as an intro. Hidden tracks: Couldn't decide which one to use so used both: first an obscure little track of oceanic waves mixed with a distantly heard "Surfin'" by the Beach Boys. (This is from a certain Smile mix which had first a tight 12-track album and then another disc called "The Big Grin" featuring extras. That mix was propably the first Smile mix I ever listened to and it was very well made. I have no other info about this track, but it might be a fan creation by the makers of that mix since I've not heard it elsewhere.) Second hidden track is a "Good Vibrations" reprise; the "persuasion" section with "hum-de-dum" chanting. I increased the volume gradually towards the ending note to create a similar effect as in "You're Welcome" that started the album. (If you'd open this particular track in an audio editing software, you'd see an image of a horn - an instrument that's quite prominent on the album. A cool little easter egg, I think!) I really like this mix, bygone. You are one of the few to incorporate some things that I've been doing with my personal mix for quite a while.
"You're Welcome" - While I don't think it ever would've been the album opener or even included on the album, it still remains the PERFECT opening track for the reasons you stated. I've yet to find a better opener, and I could never understand why people put it at the end - as you're leaving!
"Our Prayer" - Yes, exactly, you nailed it! "Our Prayer" DOES SOUND more like a funeral choir than an opening hymn. To me, it sounds better after the barn burned down, not as an opening, welcoming track. I place "Our Prayer" where you did, except I have it immediately proceeding "Surf's Up".
"Great Shape Suite" into "Vegetable" is exactly how I have it configured. It flows perfectly and works well lyrically, too. I prefer "I Wanna be Around/Workshop" as the cooks chopping lumber in the barnyard, maybe even building the cart to cart off and sell the vegetables, as opposed to re-building the barn after the fire.
"Wonderful/Look" - Again I agree, and I even tack on "Child Is Father Of The Man" a la BWPS. Hey, if it works, it works. And it does flow so well.
"The Old Master Painter" - Yes, it is about LOST love, and thus would fit better later than earlier in the mix. While it flows nicely into "Cabin Essence" lyrically, the loss of love overrides it for me.
"Heroes And Villains - Part 1 and 2 - I also use two parts, but I can't tell you how many times I've changed them around sequentially. Sometimes I'm worn down and...admit...that "Heroes And Villians" sounds right as an opening song (as a looking back, overview song), but I struggle so much with the past tense in the lyrics and it usually ends up near the end! Which means that Part 2 sometimes precedes Part 1 because of the "how I love my girl" part.
Where I take exception :
You waited a little long to introduce the "boy meets girl" narrative. I usually have them "meet" before "Cabin Essence" so he can build her a home on the range. But at least you're not closing with "Good Vibrations". Ugh.
It's interesting where you placed "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" - BEFORE "Child Is Father Of The Man" and "Wind Chimes".
Under Hidden Tracks, the ocean waves mixed with "Surfin" in the distance, isn't that taken from the Hawthorne CD, Disc 2? You wouldn't believe what I'm using as a hidden track after the closer, "Surf's Up" - about a minute snippet of The Honey's singing "Row Row Row Your Boat". Get it? I heard the word, a children's song. I'm just experimenting with it.
But I like your mix a lot. It really does flow well and you got a lot in. Very nice mix.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 15:18:31 GMT -5
bygone I think your mix idea sounds original and interesting. Would love to hear it sometime, and also thanks for using me as a reference earlier
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Post by Mopp on Mar 10, 2019 8:59:24 GMT -5
I've finally got to a mix with 12 tracks and no crossfades. It contains two short 'unlisted' tracks. Side One: - Good Vibrations
- Do You Like Worms? (Smile Sessions)
- Barnyard (Sped up HGS by a semitone and added Smiley backing vocals, Barnyard)
- Wonderful (Smile Sessions Mix)
- Child Is Father of the Man (Personal Mix)
- Cabin Essence (Smile Sessions)
Side Two: - Heroes and Villains (Personal Mix)
- Vega-Tables (Jiggy22's SMiLE Era version)
- Cool Cool Water (Sunshine Tomorrow Version. It's still 1967, so I felt it would fit)
- Wind Chimes (Smile Sessions Mix without the instrumental bars at the start)
- Mrs O'Leary's Cow (Smile Sessions mix)
- I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night (Unlisted, workshop sounds fade)
- Surf's Up (Smile Sessions mix)
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bygone
Grommet
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Post by bygone on Mar 10, 2019 9:10:26 GMT -5
So, my sequence goes like this: ----------------------------------------------------------- SIDE ONE (Masculine/American Progress) You're Welcome: Listener is welcomed to the album experience and the settlers to the "New world" of uncolonized American continent. Heroes and Villains Part 1: Cantina version with the "Sunshine"-version of the fade. The male protagonist tells his story. Do You like Worms: "Bicycle rider" is introduced and the ocean-crossing settlers start their movement across the continent. Ends with a fade as the rider continues his journey. CabinessenceVariation on Bicycle Rider's journey. Bicycle Rider theme: Picking up where "DYLW" ended, this instrumental track ends the "American gothic" phase of the album. As the music here evokes in my mind a ghostly image of some magnificent steam-locomotive, it feels suitable to place this track after "Cabinessence" which was about building the railways. Great Shape suite: a) Barnyard; b) I'm in great shape; c) I wanna be around/Workshop: Album shifts into a more comical phase as the settlers settle into a more domestic life. I put "Moaning laughing" into "Workshop" to lead into the next song: at the same moment when the moaning bursts into laughing, piano intro of "Vega-Tables" kicks in. Tedium of work (moaning) turns into joy of being alive (laughter - and getting high maybe?...). I also mixed "Swedish frog"-segment over "I wanna be around" because it fits there so well. Vega-tables: After working in barnyards and workshops, this song is about having fun and reaping the goods of the earth. I mixed an improved party-skit from "Psychedelic sounds" boot over the first "do a lot" chorus. I also edited dialog from "vegetable arguments" into the fade section to reconstruct a skit of Hal Blaine's landowner fighting off the young "punks" who have without a permit grown a vegetable garden on his land ("What do you think you're doing with a garden on my property?") You can read this dialog as continuation of the historical theme of the album: now the commons have been fenced off and all land turned into private property ("Get a job and buy some vegetables!"). Very happy with this fade now! Heroes and Villains Prelude: Consists of: "Mission pak"/"Bridge to Indians"/"Prelude to fade"/"Flutter horn". Edited into the ending of "Vega-tables" as if belonging to same song - this turned out to be a perfect fit! Gives an ending to the first movement of the album. Good vibrations: Basic single version. Continues the high energy of "Vega-tables" and caps the first side of the album. Works kind of as an interlude in the album context. Lyrics here are important, especially the line "Gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations happenin' with her" in the "persuasion" section. This can also been seen as the boy-meets-girl/falling-in-love moment within the narrative. SIDE TWO (Feminine/Destruction of the natives) Wonderful/LOOK!: "Wonderful" starts the feminine movement of the album and tells the story ("All fall down and lost in the mystery") of the female protagonist who apparently is/was a native american and the male protagonist's loved one (Margarita from the H&V's cantina-section?). These two tracks suggest innocence, beauty and wonder of the nature. H&V intro/Mrs. O'leary's Cow (Fire): Sudden arrival of the settlers & destruction of the native's villages and lands. Child is Father of the man:I structured this in this way: bridge/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge again with a fade out. I also laced it with various sound effects from "Bob Gordon's real trip" and "Burning wood session". As such this is about the damage done by the colonizers and serves as the darkest moment within the story. Water sounds during the verse suggest care and rebirth though. Wind chimes: Female protagonist (now an old woman?) remembering the dead ones and all that has been lost. (The chorus of this song sounds actually like exaggerated, cartoonish crying!) For the tag/fade I edited in dialog from "Taxi Cabber" tape and inserted some wailing horns from "George fell into a French horn" sessions. Idea was to increase the cacophony as the taxi cabber talks about the Chicago metropolitan area with its highways and airports and "the plains" now covered with several cities. This should tie into the themes of urbanization, alienation, air pollution etc. Wailing horns also suggest dead souls hovering in the winds. The fade brings a type of "lost in the world" feeling towards the end of the second movement. The Old Master Painter: Male protagonist (now an old, dying man?) lamenting lost love and lost blue skies (because of the smog maybe?). Our Prayer: A hymn (by a funeral-choir?) to end the second movement. Heroes and Villains Part 2: I Imagine this kind of like some burlesque show played in the afterlife in Heaven! Starts playfully with "Gee" and other chanting parts and goes into "Children were raised---healthy wealthy and wise" and "Sunny down snuff" sections. Ends with the chorus ("Heroes and villains, just see what you've done") and "Bridge to Indians" bringing definite closure. Surf's up: Caps the whole album and conveys the final message. I always like to hear this song in an extended form with the instrumental backing track as an intro. Hidden tracks: Couldn't decide which one to use so used both: first an obscure little track of oceanic waves mixed with a distantly heard "Surfin'" by the Beach Boys. (This is from a certain Smile mix which had first a tight 12-track album and then another disc called "The Big Grin" featuring extras. That mix was propably the first Smile mix I ever listened to and it was very well made. I have no other info about this track, but it might be a fan creation by the makers of that mix since I've not heard it elsewhere.) Second hidden track is a "Good Vibrations" reprise; the "persuasion" section with "hum-de-dum" chanting. I increased the volume gradually towards the ending note to create a similar effect as in "You're Welcome" that started the album. (If you'd open this particular track in an audio editing software, you'd see an image of a horn - an instrument that's quite prominent on the album. A cool little easter egg, I think!) I really like this mix, bygone. You are one of the few to incorporate some things that I've been doing with my personal mix for quite a while.
"You're Welcome" - While I don't think it ever would've been the album opener or even included on the album, it still remains the PERFECT opening track for the reasons you stated. I've yet to find a better opener, and I could never understand why people put it at the end - as you're leaving!
"Our Prayer" - Yes, exactly, you nailed it! "Our Prayer" DOES SOUND more like a funeral choir than an opening hymn. To me, it sounds better after the barn burned down, not as an opening, welcoming track. I place "Our Prayer" where you did, except I have it immediately proceeding "Surf's Up".
"Great Shape Suite" into "Vegetable" is exactly how I have it configured. It flows perfectly and works well lyrically, too. I prefer "I Wanna be Around/Workshop" as the cooks chopping lumber in the barnyard, maybe even building the cart to cart off and sell the vegetables, as opposed to re-building the barn after the fire.
"Wonderful/Look" - Again I agree, and I even tack on "Child Is Father Of The Man" a la BWPS. Hey, if it works, it works. And it does flow so well.
"The Old Master Painter" - Yes, it is about LOST love, and thus would fit better later than earlier in the mix. While it flows nicely into "Cabin Essence" lyrically, the loss of love overrides it for me.
"Heroes And Villains - Part 1 and 2 - I also use two parts, but I can't tell you how many times I've changed them around sequentially. Sometimes I'm worn down and...admit...that "Heroes And Villians" sounds right as an opening song (as a looking back, overview song), but I struggle so much with the past tense in the lyrics and it usually ends up near the end! Which means that Part 2 sometimes precedes Part 1 because of the "how I love my girl" part.
Where I take exception :
You waited a little long to introduce the "boy meets girl" narrative. I usually have them "meet" before "Cabin Essence" so he can build her a home on the range. But at least you're not closing with "Good Vibrations". Ugh.
It's interesting where you placed "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" - BEFORE "Child Is Father Of The Man" and "Wind Chimes".
Under Hidden Tracks, the ocean waves mixed with "Surfin" in the distance, isn't that taken from the Hawthorne CD, Disc 2? You wouldn't believe what I'm using as a hidden track after the closer, "Surf's Up" - about a minute snippet of The Honey's singing "Row Row Row Your Boat". Get it? I heard the word, a children's song. I'm just experimenting with it.
But I like your mix a lot. It really does flow well and you got a lot in. Very nice mix.
Wow, great feedback Sheriff John Stone, thanks a lot!
About the placement of "Wonderful" and "Mrs. O'leary's Cow" on my mix:
Originally I had "Wonderful" before "Do You Like Worms" and "Cabinessence" to introduce that "boy meets girl" narrative early on. That's where this song should be very likely. But I shifted it to side two to make that second side or movement of the album stronger; otherwise it consisted of too many instrumentals or half-finished songs with vague lyrics that made it hard to see what's going on. Now side two has a clearer narrative structure: "Wonderful" and "Look" sound very sweet and innocent, painting some Eden-like picture; then comes "Mrs. O'leary's Cow", pulling the rug under the listener. This is supposed to be dramatic, representing what happened to "Wonderful"'s female protagonist according to lyrics (rape even?). After this, it's natural to follow up with the darker, more melancholic tracks of the album ("CIFOTM", Wind Chimes", "The Old Master Painter", "Our Prayer"). There's no "reconstruction after the fire" with "I wanna be around/Workshop" or "cooling off" with "I love to say dada"/"Cool cool water". Instead, the final drum beats of "Mrs. O'leary's cow" lead straight into that doomy bridge section of "CIFOTM". This way the sequencing attempts to emphasize the heaviness of the album's sentiment about the damage done to natives and nature during the so called "American progress".
A bit too much of a downer for an album called "SMiLE" "with a happy album cover [and] the really happy sounds inside"? ...Yes, maybe... But the material recorded lends itself to this kind of interpretation and sequencing. By the time "Surf's Up" comes and goes, it should be clear to anyone what this record was about.
Maybe the concept about "the elements" suite or track should be incorporated in this scheme to emphasize the environmental/health theme, but I left that out to save space and sharpen the core message (even in BWPS the tracks representing this concept belonged to the third movement, which according to Brian was a contemporary add-on).
Sidenote on "The Old Master Painter" - I've traditionally heard the lyrics as "You WERE my sunshine", not "You ARE my sunshine" like they seemingly are in 2011 TSS version. The line is very unclear in the "Mok's Smile" version, which is my go-to version of this track. I thought it was a deliberate choice to make this line unclear like that - as if he's singing both "are" and "were" at the same time. There's a similar trick in Love's "Forever Changes" on two tracks. Then the 2011 TSS version came and ruined this nice effect with it's too clearly pronounced "are"... But yes, this track clearly is about loss anyway.
About the hidden tracks:
You're right about that track of ocean sounds mixed with distant "Surfin'" - now that I checked, there is a similar track on "Hawthorne, Ca". However, the version I use is a bit different - and slightly better in my opinion. It really sounds like some miniature band sailing on a piece of cork through the seas towards some unknown continent, bringing their teeny-bop surf-music with them, ready to conquer the world... It's funny and appropriate, I like it!
Your choice for hidden track after "Surf's up" sounds interesting too. I get the idea, but haven't heard that particular recording of "Row Row Row Your Boat" (I see it can be found on "Unsurpassed Masters vol.14" and I'm trying to download that one at the moment). EDIT: This is amazing...
Finally:
It sure is tricky business piecing this album together from vintage material, for there's always something not quite right, or lacking, or disjointed or whatever. And as I wrote in my original post, I'm not sure if this mix really works listened from start to finish (What if the listener has "fresh ears" and no preconceived notions about the theory behind SMiLE or this particular tracklist?). I put this mix out to "get it out of my system", to move on, for I once again fell quite deep into obsessive behaviour while trying to "finish" a version of my liking. Glad to hear people liking the results though!
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bygone
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Post by bygone on Mar 10, 2019 9:40:56 GMT -5
bygone I think your mix idea sounds original and interesting. Would love to hear it sometime, and also thanks for using me as a reference earlier
Nice to hear. In my original post there is a link to dropbox-folder where the mix can be downloaded. I encourage you to sometime listen at least "Vega-Tables", "Wind Chimes" and "CIFOTM" which contain attempts to incorporate "psychedelic sounds" materials in meaningful ways.
I think I nailed the fade of "Vega-Tables", I'm proud of that!
I've read lots of your writings on SMiLE - your efforts on this front are much appreciated by me
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 11:58:55 GMT -5
bygone I think your mix idea sounds original and interesting. Would love to hear it sometime, and also thanks for using me as a reference earlier
Nice to hear. In my original post there is a link to dropbox-folder where the mix can be downloaded. I encourage you to sometime listen at least "Vega-Tables", "Wind Chimes" and "CIFOTM" which contain attempts to incorporate "psychedelic sounds" materials in meaningful ways.
I think I nailed the fade of "Vega-Tables", I'm proud of that!
I've read lots of your writings on SMiLE - your efforts on this front are much appreciated by me Oh Im sorry, I totally missed that! Will def check that out then I'll give it a listen and share my thoughts if that's cool Thanks for the kind words, that really means a lot to me! <3
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 0:18:14 GMT -5
"He Gives Speeches"...include or discard? I see some use it as a bonus track and some work it into their mix. I wish I could understand it or get a better grasp of it so I could attempt to put it where it might make sense. With my mix being a "kitchen sink" affair, right now "He Gives Speeches" is one of the few pieces not included - but I want to include it! I believe "He Gives Speeches" definitely belongs somewhere, probably in a lost mix. I think it has something to do with "Good Vibrations" or "Wonderful". It was recorded during the same session as the final organ tag for "Good Vibrations" was. The same organ was even used on earlier takes of HGS. The sections are also quite similar, musically, to each other. Both have the same chord progressions, repeated for the same amount of bars, and both share a pretty similar rhythm. So not to be controversial here, and keep in mind that I wouldn't propose this theory unless I had any other ideas, but I honestly think "He Gives Speeches" was suppose to replace the "Good Vibrations: Organ Tag" in an alternate mix. This alternate mix probable would have been for the album. I can't really think of any other place to put it when the tracking session provides such evidence of it's musical heritage. It's certainly puzzling. My other theory is that is would have come after the end of "Wonderful", and picked back up into the 12th street rap tag reprise from the fadeout of "I Ran". I made that mix connecting HGS and "I Ran" together based off of the sequencing found in "She's Goin' Bald". tl;dr Certainly wouldn't have been a bonus track. Most likely was meant to be a part of an extended album version of "Good Vibrations". There is the possibility that the idea could've been aborted though, however.
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Post by Micha on Mar 21, 2019 4:21:24 GMT -5
I think it fits into CIFOTM, both keywise and lyrical content. "Little hands shadowed on the ceiling". My layout:
Chorus/verse/chorus/verse/HGS/bridge/chorus
That said, HGS is not a very intricately arranged recording and I wouldn't blame anybody to discard it. As there is quite a lack of CIFOTM lyrics, I use HGS because it HAS lyrics.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 15:07:17 GMT -5
I think it fits into CIFOTM, both keywise and lyrical content. "Little hands shadowed on the ceiling". My layout:
Chorus/verse/chorus/verse/HGS/bridge/chorus
That said, HGS is not a very intricately arranged recording and I wouldn't blame anybody to discard it. As there is quite a lack of CIFOTM lyrics, I use HGS because it HAS lyrics.
You can plug "He Gives Speeches" into "Child Is Father of the Man" like that, although I personally wouldn't place a Bridge before another Bridge in a song. But it does work (I tried it)! It's just unlikely since "Child Is Father of the Man" hadn't been written yet at the time. I think "He Gives Speeches" gets a bad rap for sounding too basic, but I think that's because most people aren't aware of the special fx Brian was intending to use on the track. He was going to raise the pitch in the song while it was playing, like an elevator, or like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey as Brian described. Once you add that element to the track, it's certainly far from uninteresting.
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Post by eraserheadbaby on Mar 28, 2019 15:55:09 GMT -5
I think it fits into CIFOTM, both keywise and lyrical content. "Little hands shadowed on the ceiling". My layout:
Chorus/verse/chorus/verse/HGS/bridge/chorus
That said, HGS is not a very intricately arranged recording and I wouldn't blame anybody to discard it. As there is quite a lack of CIFOTM lyrics, I use HGS because it HAS lyrics.
You can plug "He Gives Speeches" into "Child Is Father of the Man" like that, although I personally wouldn't place a Bridge before another Bridge in a song. But it does work (I tried it)! It's just unlikely since "Child Is Father of the Man" hadn't been written yet at the time. I think "He Gives Speeches" gets a bad rap for sounding too basic, but I think that's because most people aren't aware of the special fx Brian was intending to use on the track. He was going to raise the pitch in the song while it was playing, like an elevator, or like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey as Brian described. Once you add that element to the track, it's certainly far from uninteresting. Gonna be real with you chief, that is a pretty bad take
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Post by AGD on Mar 28, 2019 16:03:23 GMT -5
I think it fits into CIFOTM, both keywise and lyrical content. "Little hands shadowed on the ceiling". My layout:
Chorus/verse/chorus/verse/HGS/bridge/chorus
That said, HGS is not a very intricately arranged recording and I wouldn't blame anybody to discard it. As there is quite a lack of CIFOTM lyrics, I use HGS because it HAS lyrics.
Brian evidently didn't think so in November 1966 when he made his final edit and mix.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 16:30:45 GMT -5
I think "He Gives Speeches" gets a bad rap for sounding too basic, but I think that's because most people aren't aware of the special fx Brian was intending to use on the track. He was going to raise the pitch in the song while it was playing, like an elevator, or like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey as Brian described. Once you add that element to the track, it's certainly far from uninteresting. What evidence do you have for this, other than that effect being used on She's Goin' Bald?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 17:00:33 GMT -5
You can plug "He Gives Speeches" into "Child Is Father of the Man" like that, although I personally wouldn't place a Bridge before another Bridge in a song. But it does work (I tried it)! It's just unlikely since "Child Is Father of the Man" hadn't been written yet at the time. I think "He Gives Speeches" gets a bad rap for sounding too basic, but I think that's because most people aren't aware of the special fx Brian was intending to use on the track. He was going to raise the pitch in the song while it was playing, like an elevator, or like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey as Brian described. Once you add that element to the track, it's certainly far from uninteresting. Gonna be real with you chief, that is a pretty bad take I don't think it is since I can quote Brian himself for that. Whether or not it's a bad idea is another thing, but it's not a wrong interpretation if that's what you're getting at. I never would've attempted to raise the pitch in "He Gives Speeches" until I read what Brian had said. Here's an audio file showing what Brian would've done with the track, I think it's pretty cool! vocaroo.com/i/s1kSVxzvbM74I think "He Gives Speeches" gets a bad rap for sounding too basic, but I think that's because most people aren't aware of the special fx Brian was intending to use on the track. He was going to raise the pitch in the song while it was playing, like an elevator, or like HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey as Brian described. Once you add that element to the track, it's certainly far from uninteresting. What evidence do you have for this, other than that effect being used on She's Goin' Bald? Brian talked about it in his new book, "I Am Brian Wilson". He went on to explain why they didn't used "He Gives Speeches" in 2004, because he thought that everyone would be reminded of HAL from 2001 once they heard the pitch sliding. I think it fits into CIFOTM, both keywise and lyrical content. "Little hands shadowed on the ceiling". My layout:
Chorus/verse/chorus/verse/HGS/bridge/chorus
That said, HGS is not a very intricately arranged recording and I wouldn't blame anybody to discard it. As there is quite a lack of CIFOTM lyrics, I use HGS because it HAS lyrics.
Brian evidently didn't think so in November 1966 when he made his final edit and mix. Agreed, however it's still a creative way to assemble the different parts. We need more creative ideas like this in mixes if we are to unravel the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 17:30:27 GMT -5
Brian doesn't say anything like that in his book, never mind dictate exactly what would've been done with HGS, you're misreading the quote. This is what he said: This is talking specifically about the Eltro being used on She's Goin' Bald in 1967 a year after He Gives Speeches. The last part is either Brian being Brian and making something up or Ben Greenman tying the story together with an addition that doesn't make a lot of sense, since SGB was never in consideration for BWPS and He Gives Speeches was rejected outright by Brian during the earliest stages. I disagree completely. I think you're misreading the quote. It's not talking specifically about the Eltro being used on "She's Goin' Bald", it's talking about the Eltro being used on "She's Goin' Bald"/"He Gives Speeches". There's a big difference. "He Gives Speeches" is a part of Smile, "She's Goin' Bald" is not. Only "He Gives Speeches" would have been considered for Smile in 2004, because it is a part of Smile. Brian here is telling us that it wasn't used because of it's Eltro effect being outdated now. Therefore, Eltro was to be used on "He Gives Speeches"."He Gives Speeches" was objected by Brian, and he's telling us why in that quote.
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Post by AGD on Mar 28, 2019 18:14:09 GMT -5
Brian doesn't say anything like that in his book, never mind dictate exactly what would've been done with HGS, you're misreading the quote. This is what he said: This is talking specifically about the Eltro being used on She's Goin' Bald in 1967 a year after He Gives Speeches. The last part is either Brian being Brian and making something up or Ben Greenman tying the story together with an addition that doesn't make a lot of sense, since SGB was never in consideration for BWPS and He Gives Speeches was rejected outright by Brian during the earliest stages. I disagree completely. I think you're misreading the quote. It's not talking specifically about the Eltro being used on "She's Goin' Bald", it's talking about the Eltro being used on "She's Goin' Bald"/"He Gives Speeches". There's a big difference. "He Gives Speeches" is a part of Smile, "She's Goin' Bald" is not. Only "He Gives Speeches" would have been considered for Smile in 2004, because it is a part of Smile. Brian here is telling us that it wasn't used because of it's Eltro effect being outdated now. Therefore, Eltro was to be used on "He Gives Speeches"."He Gives Speeches" was objected by Brian, and he's telling us why in that quote. Actually, it is. The timing is very specific: "There was a song called "She's Goin' Bald" on the Smiley Smile album in 1967. Originally, it was different. Originally, it was called "He Gives Speeches." It was a strange little piece, lots of voices. To do that in 1967, we used something called an Eltro Information Rate Changer, which changed pitch without speeding up or slowing down the tape." There were no sessions for "HGS" in 1967. Not one. The only one known was either 8/25/66 or 9/1/66. You're not going to like this, but what we have here is a classic example of deriving info to fit your idée fixe where no such info exists. Brian is clearly and obviously referring to "SGB" and not "HGS". Same with the 4/10/67 session: you can't just say "it's not "CIFOTH", it's "Wonderful"" purely because it doesn't fit your preferred theory. That's Queen of Hearts logic.
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