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Post by kds on Jan 30, 2019 12:24:38 GMT -5
To be fair, the pyro carnage you're likely referring to was an isolated awful tragedy. Your "pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage)" might imply that it's happened more than just that tragic Great White concert. So, I just wanted to add a little context to those who might not remember that incident. The Great White (Station nightclub ) was more than just a lesson in what should not happen. It changed the industry standards as far as permitting for pyrotechnics, sprinkler systems, and unblocked exits, the foam which was ignited and doors that opened inwardly instead of outwardly. OSHA cited them for no emergency action plan and employees not trained to assist with evacuation and fire hazards. They were also hit with failure to provide workers compensation insurance. I agree with all of that, but I interpreted (perhaps wrongly) that you were saying that concert pyro as a whole ends up in carnage while it really only did the one time. If I misinterpreted, I apologize.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 30, 2019 12:36:03 GMT -5
The Great White (Station nightclub ) was more than just a lesson in what should not happen. It changed the industry standards as far as permitting for pyrotechnics, sprinkler systems, and unblocked exits, the foam which was ignited and doors that opened inwardly instead of outwardly. OSHA cited them for no emergency action plan and employees not trained to assist with evacuation and fire hazards. They were also hit with failure to provide workers compensation insurance. I agree with all of that, but I interpreted (perhaps wrongly) that you were saying that concert pyro as a whole ends up in carnage while it really only did the one time. If I misinterpreted, I apologize. You’re fine - The details were mind blowing right down to the polyurethane on the walls which acted as gasoline. Of course special effects are great and can be fun, so long as they are safe. Always a good idea when going into any venue to check how you can get out in an emergency, as you would with a school fire drill.
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Post by John Manning on Jan 30, 2019 17:12:45 GMT -5
pyrotechnics are awesome. It helps set the scene really effectively and provides something you can't see anywhere else. (As opposed to halfnaked women I can find anywhere online these days.) Smashing guitars is fun. It's just a harmless thing to do that shows how music is an outlet for the same primal urges which drive us towards sex and other physical acts (at least that's how I interpret it.) Methinks if the Beach Boys had partaken in that sort of stage performance a certain someone would proclaim it genius and defend it to their dying day. Is the music not enough? At the end of the day, that’s what it is all about, right? As for smashing guitars as on-stage gimmick, I can think of better ways to use up the world’s resources. It wouldn’t satisfy my sexual urges, speaking personally.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 17:32:41 GMT -5
Is the music not enough? At the end of the day, that’s what it is all about, right? As for smashing guitars as on-stage gimmick, I can think of better ways to use up the world’s resources. It wouldn’t satisfy my sexual urges, speaking personally. If the artist wants to add more to their musical performance, then why scoff at them for doing so? If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. But let's not turn up our noses at a performer for wanting to expand what their craft is capable of. That same line of criticism could equally be leveled at film making (you're using special effects? Isn't acting enough?!?) or the very cheerleaders who kicked off this side-discussion (scantily clad women?? isn't the music enough!?) If misusing the world's resources is your primary concern I think there's about 1000 better issues to tackle than the occasional smashed guitar. How about all the wasted one-off plastic bottles, utensils, micro-plastics etc. Or all the trees we kill to print yellow pages books which no one needs anymore? Or billionaires buying up the water supply and selling it back to us for obscene profit (read up about Nestle.) The planned obsolescence of consumer electronics. The manufacturing of weapons which the military doesn't need to give money to defense contractors. Or the destruction of the rainforest and the effect it will have on our carbon footprint, biodiversity, ability to make new pharmaceuticals, etc. A smashed guitar at the rare rock concert is such a small, insignificant misuse of resources to get bent out of shape about in comparison to these massive systemic abuses.
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Post by John Manning on Jan 30, 2019 19:08:00 GMT -5
Is the music not enough? At the end of the day, that’s what it is all about, right? As for smashing guitars as on-stage gimmick, I can think of better ways to use up the world’s resources. It wouldn’t satisfy my sexual urges, speaking personally. If the artist wants to add more to their musical performance, then why scoff at them for doing so? If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. But let's not turn up our noses at a performer for wanting to expand what their craft is capable of. That same line of criticism could equally be leveled at film making (you're using special effects? Isn't acting enough?!?) or the very cheerleaders who kicked off this side-discussion (scantily clad women?? isn't the music enough!?) If misusing the world's resources is your primary concern I think there's about 1000 better issues to tackle than the occasional smashed guitar. How about all the wasted one-off plastic bottles, utensils, micro-plastics etc. Or all the trees we kill to print yellow pages books which no one needs anymore? Or billionaires buying up the water supply and selling it back to us for obscene profit (read up about Nestle.) The planned obsolescence of consumer electronics. The manufacturing of weapons which the military doesn't need to give money to defense contractors. Or the destruction of the rainforest and the effect it will have on our carbon footprint, biodiversity, ability to make new pharmaceuticals, etc. A smashed guitar at the rare rock concert is such a small, insignificant misuse of resources to get bent out of shape about in comparison to these massive systemic abuses. ”Bent outnof shape”? Eh what?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 21:39:35 GMT -5
”Bent out of shape”? Eh what? If I misinterpreted your mood I apologize but text by itself is pretty tough to understand. The phrase "It wouldn’t satisfy my sexual urges, speaking personally," sounded a bit sarcastic/snippy to me considering I wasn't saying smashing a guitar turned me on, just that it expressed that music could be part of that same primal urge that causes men to commit sexual and even violent acts. If I misread your post, my bad, but the rest of my points apply either way.
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Post by kds on Jan 31, 2019 8:44:50 GMT -5
While we've on the subject of live music, here's another one of my hot takes:
I don't feel there's nearly as big a gap between the quality of live shows of Brian Wilson and The Mike and Bruce Beach Boys as many fans would have one believe.
I'd go so far to say that Mike's band actually does a better job with the pre Pet Sounds material than Brian's band.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 31, 2019 8:52:17 GMT -5
While we've on the subject of live music, here's another one of my hot takes: I don't feel there's nearly as big a gap between the quality of live shows of Brian Wilson and The Mike and Bruce Beach Boys as many fans would have one believe. I'd go so far to say that Mike's band actually does a better job with the pre Pet Sounds material than Brian's band. It is like the Venn Diagram - both bands have members who played C50 - so quality is pretty even. BB music!
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Post by Jason (The Real Beach Boy) on Jan 31, 2019 9:47:00 GMT -5
I'd go a step further and say that for one point in the late 1990s/early 2000s it was Al who had the best and most faithful backup band primarily because it was composed of mainstays from the band's live glory days, like Billy Hinsche, Bobby Figueroa, Ed Carter, and others. Brian's band and Mike and Bruce's band have their own perks, but the problem with Brian's band is the lack of, well, ROCK. It puts into harsh focus just how much Carl contributed to the band's sound both in the studio and especially live, turning Brian's studio productions into barn burners in concert. In fact, having Blondie on board in Brian's band now is a breath of fresh air because the guy can bring some heavy rock and energy to the shows; it's just a shame that he disappears after a few numbers. It reminds me of 2004 when Brian had the Stockholm Strings 'n Horns with him but only during the Smile portion of the set. The following summer when he played, the SSH were accompanying him throughout the entire set. If you're going to bring special backup members with you, USE THEM for the whole show.
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Post by kds on Jan 31, 2019 10:04:54 GMT -5
I'd go a step further and say that for one point in the late 1990s/early 2000s it was Al who had the best and most faithful backup band primarily because it was composed of mainstays from the band's live glory days, like Billy Hinsche, Bobby Figueroa, Ed Carter, and others. Brian's band and Mike and Bruce's band have their own perks, but the problem with Brian's band is the lack of, well, ROCK. It puts into harsh focus just how much Carl contributed to the band's sound both in the studio and especially live, turning Brian's studio productions into barn burners in concert. In fact, having Blondie on board in Brian's band now is a breath of fresh air because the guy can bring some heavy rock and energy to the shows; it's just a shame that he disappears after a few numbers. It reminds me of 2004 when Brian had the Stockholm Strings 'n Horns with him but only during the Smile portion of the set. The following summer when he played, the SSH were accompanying him throughout the entire set. If you're going to bring special backup members with you, USE THEM for the whole show. I couldn't agree more about your take on Brian's band and Blondie. Great band for sure, but they do lack that rock and roll energy. With the exception of Scott Totten, Mike's band is fairly stoic these days too. I honestly wish Brian's band would do a more 1970-73 centric set and use Blondie more.
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Post by kds on Feb 3, 2019 12:55:15 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation.
For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry.
It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison.
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Post by John Manning on Feb 3, 2019 12:59:22 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation. For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry. It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison. Still want to see this, on DVD or Blu-Ray (not a computer screen: spend my life in front of them). It must have some redeeming features for sure!
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Post by kds on Feb 3, 2019 13:02:29 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation. For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry. It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison. Still want to see this, on DVD or Blu-Ray (not a computer screen: spend my life in front of them). It must have some redeeming features for sure! I was hoping that a release might have come out in an attempt to piggy back of Love and Mercy a few years ago. I did wind up buying a DVD off the interwebs, and would purchase it again if it ever gets a legit release.
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Post by craigslowinski on Feb 3, 2019 13:18:10 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation. For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry. It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison. What's the one that aired in 1990, with Bruce Greenwood as Dennis? I really liked the guy who played Murry in THAT one...
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Post by kds on Feb 3, 2019 13:19:03 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation. For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry. It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison. What's the one that aired in 1990, with Bruce Greenwood as Dennis? I really liked the guy who played Murry in THAT one... That was Summer Dreams. I've never seen it, but would like to check it out one day.
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Post by Vale on Feb 3, 2019 13:37:35 GMT -5
American Family is not nearly as bad as its reputation. For one, veteran character actor Kevin Dunn is great as Murry. It goes off the rails a little in the second part, the Smile sequences in particular. But, the exaggerated Brian is no worse than Oliver Stone's Jim Morrison. What's the one that aired in 1990, with Bruce Greenwood as Dennis? I really liked the guy who played Murry in THAT one... Maybe the best Murry actor of all the BB movies around, really severe man and that way he was smoking the pipe...
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Post by Vale on Feb 3, 2019 13:47:28 GMT -5
What's the one that aired in 1990, with Bruce Greenwood as Dennis? I really liked the guy who played Murry in THAT one... That was Summer Dreams. I've never seen it, but would like to check it out one day. I found out who Bruce Greenwood was because of this movie, now everytime I see one of his movie I say: ‘Hey that’s Dennis’
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Post by kds on Feb 3, 2019 23:17:48 GMT -5
What's the one that aired in 1990, with Bruce Greenwood as Dennis? I really liked the guy who played Murry in THAT one... Maybe the best Murry actor of all the BB movies around, really severe man and that way he was smoking the pipe... I'll have to check it out. To be honest, I thought the "Murry" was one of the weak links in Love and Mercy.
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Post by Vale on Feb 4, 2019 1:49:31 GMT -5
Maybe the best Murry actor of all the BB movies around, really severe man and that way he was smoking the pipe... I'll have to check it out. To be honest, I thought the "Murry" was one of the weak links in Love and Mercy. No but I was talking about Summer Dreams not L&M.
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Post by craigslowinski on Feb 4, 2019 4:43:08 GMT -5
I'll have to check it out. To be honest, I thought the "Murry" was one of the weak links in Love and Mercy. No but I was talking about Summer Dreams not L&M. And what makes Arlen Dean Snyder's portrayal of Murry even more remarkable and uncanny is the fact that this was a few years before the infamous "Help Me, Rhonda" tape emerged - and since this was not an "authorized" biography, we can assume Mr. Snyder did not have access to this artifact for his research into the role.
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Post by Vale on Feb 4, 2019 5:10:52 GMT -5
No but I was talking about Summer Dreams not L&M. And what makes Arlen Dean Snyder's portrayal of Murry even more remarkable and uncanny is the fact that this was a few years before the infamous "Help Me, Rhonda" tape emerged - and since this was not an "authorized" biography, we can assume Mr. Snyder did not have access to this artifact for his research into the role. One of the writers of the movie was Steven Gaines so I guess he might have "passed" these info to Arlen... I guess... www.imdb.com/title/tt0100715/?ref_=nv_sr_1
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Post by kds on Feb 4, 2019 5:30:22 GMT -5
I'll have to check it out. To be honest, I thought the "Murry" was one of the weak links in Love and Mercy. No but I was talking about Summer Dreams not L&M. I know, I was just saying that I didn't think the Murry character in L&M was that great.
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Post by Vale on Feb 4, 2019 5:32:05 GMT -5
No but I was talking about Summer Dreams not L&M. I know, I was just saying that I didn't think the Murry character in L&M was that great. Oh sorry, well yeah I agree with that!
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Post by bittersweetsanity on Feb 4, 2019 6:59:38 GMT -5
i thought Bill Camp's Murry was a highlight of the otherwise boring 60s sections of Love and Mercy.
There's a hot take for you: only half of L&M is really any good; the 80s sections and the bed scene are transcendental cinema.
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Post by kds on Feb 4, 2019 8:24:37 GMT -5
i thought Bill Camp's Murry was a highlight of the otherwise boring 60s sections of Love and Mercy.
There's a hot take for you: only half of L&M is really any good; the 80s sections and the bed scene are transcendental cinema.
My one issue with the 80s portion is that I wish they'd have given Carl a part, rather than just being a voice on the other end of a phone call that we never hear.
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