|
Post by filledeplage on Jan 8, 2019 13:41:35 GMT -5
It is goofy - but IIRC the studio was lined with plastic and all these veggies were trucked in. That, IIRC was from one of Al's Storyteller shows. It did not seem to be slated for a single but just a fun track. Lord, knows they needed levity at that time. Ah, but it WAS (slated for a single, announced in the spring of '67). Thanks for that.
|
|
|
Post by The Cap'n on Jan 18, 2019 10:27:20 GMT -5
My hot take (if it is one) for the moment, because it's being discussed elsewhere at the moment: "California Feeling" is entirely undeserving of the attention it has gotten from the group and its members, being recorded something like four times (demo, American Spring, Beach Boys, Brian Wilson). It's kind of a turd of a song. There are some good group harmonies, sure. But it's not a good song, and the lyrics are, well, Kalinich. (Whose lyrics I find almost exclusively awful.)
|
|
|
Post by E on Jan 18, 2019 12:02:15 GMT -5
My hot take (if it is one) for the moment, because it's being discussed elsewhere at the moment: "California Feeling" is entirely undeserving of the attention it has gotten from the group and its members, being recorded something like four times (demo, American Spring, Beach Boys, Brian Wilson). It's kind of a turd of a song. There are some good group harmonies, sure. But it's not a good song, and the lyrics are, well, Kalinich. (Whose lyrics I find almost exclusively awful.) Another one I can pretty much agree with. For 1979 it's good (but not great) and I would still prefer it had been on LA by virtue of the fact it's better than some of those that made the cut. For 1969, however, it would be merely okay. I like the harmonies; the lyrics are sappy (and it's underwritten); Brian's intro seems a little throwaway. I think, overall, I prefer Al's version.
|
|
|
Post by The Cap'n on Jan 18, 2019 12:06:38 GMT -5
I forgot about the Al version when I was listing them!
|
|
|
Post by John Manning on Jan 18, 2019 12:35:51 GMT -5
Al’s version’s by far and away the best, to my ears, but the lyrics still, mostly, grate.
|
|
|
Post by andrewhickey on Jan 18, 2019 14:46:21 GMT -5
Al’s version’s by far and away the best, to my ears, but the lyrics still, mostly, grate. Yeah, Al's version is the least unlistenable version of the song, but that's about all that can be said for it I think.
|
|
|
Post by Beach Boys Fan on Jan 19, 2019 1:53:25 GMT -5
Al's "California Feelin'" is the best, yep.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Jan 19, 2019 3:01:26 GMT -5
My hot take (if it is one) for the moment, because it's being discussed elsewhere at the moment: "California Feeling" is entirely undeserving of the attention it has gotten from the group and its members, being recorded something like four times (demo, American Spring, Beach Boys, Brian Wilson). It's kind of a turd of a song. There are some good group harmonies, sure. But it's not a good song, and the lyrics are, well, Kalinich. (Whose lyrics I find almost exclusively awful.) As I recall, the status of this song as a work of art was started by Tim White in his 1976 Cradaddy two-parter. I distinctly recall hearing it for the first time and thinking " That's it ?" .
As for Alan's being the most listenable version, given that he copies Brian's phrasing and intonation from the demo to the syllable, hardly surprising.
|
|
|
Post by monolithic on Jan 19, 2019 8:12:20 GMT -5
Al’s version’s by far and away the best, to my ears, but the lyrics still, mostly, grate. Only S Kalinich could write lyrics like "Taste a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree" (and later on the same album "Majesty moves through me majestically" of course).
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 8:35:39 GMT -5
Thanks to my lack of ability to catching English lyrics just by my ears, California Feelin' is one of my favorite songs from the later era I assume it had been hyped up as something like a "lost classic" too much before it was heard by wider public, and hence fans were disappointed with the actual song.
|
|
|
Post by craigslowinski on Jan 19, 2019 11:12:49 GMT -5
Al’s version’s by far and away the best, to my ears, but the lyrics still, mostly, grate. Only S Kalinich could write lyrics like "Taste a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree" (and later on the same album "Majesty moves through me majestically" of course). That grapefruit lyric has always bothered me (not the mention of the fruit, but the mention of it twice in the same sentence, and the utter redundancy of it - OF COURSE grapefruit comes from a grapefruit tree...even singing "taste the grapefruit from a great big tree" would sound better!). I'm not a man easily bothered by lyrics, but jeez!
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 17:09:56 GMT -5
I still love [Brian's] music (most of it) and greatly sympathize with everything he went thru. But the more I've delved into Brian's antics the less I believe the "charming guileless victim" characterization. The song credits is a big one. I also think the way he treated his friends during the SMiLE era is another. It's become the popular narrative to blame them if not Mike for killing SMiLE, mistreating Brian, not appreciating his vision... But if you listen to the Psychedelic Sounds bootleg carefully I think it paints a completely different picture. It's an impulsive guy who never thought anything out before acting on it. Who never bothered to communicate his vision effectively to anybody. Who'd call his friends and goad them into meeting at the studio or an airport at all hours of the night on his whims. Once there he'd force them to act like a pig (Al, who supposedly felt humiliated) or act out these seemingly random skit ideas. During the Nov 4 skits, you can see how Brian never clearly tells anyone what's in his head. He just starts a vague scenario like falling into an instrument and expects them to follow. When the other guys try to do their own improvised thing (Ice Cream Man) he doesn't join in or try to build on what they've brought to the session. So it's the worst of both worlds--no direction but not allowing improv either. When he tries to get them to do the Vegetable Fight they refuse, and as fans who want to hear what Brian had in his head, we get annoyed at them. "Oh those simple-minded fools, why couldn't they appreciate his vision?!" Well, from their perspective it's late at night, they hadn't planned to be doing this, they're annoyed at the lack of direction from the guy who asked them to come and they want to go home. Can you really blame them for that? The infamous Lifeboat Tape is even worse in this regard. In both sessions, if you listen closely you can hear people complain about being dragged around to fulfill these vague commands late at night. Their frustration is justifiable and any of us would have been just as fed up by these antics given enough time. Yet, they get demonized in history because Brian is the de facto hero of the story, since you'd have to be a fan of his to have even sought out these tapes in the first place. The way Brian treated VDP, Jules Siegal and his girlfriend as well as David Anderle when they were just trying to do their jobs and get this thing off the ground is abominable. I know Brian was unwell but I don't think that fully excuses some of his actions. To my knowledge he has never really apologized either. People use the Wrecking Crew's testimony that Brian was "always professional in the studio" as an excuse to shut out any of this kind of criticism. And you know what--Brian *is* a lot more professional in the studio with the musicians. His clear, respectful directions to Hal Blaine during the Fight tapes are evidence of this. However, that only makes his treatment of his supposed friends even worse. It's as though he felt entitled to use them as his unpaid guinea pigs--that they didn't deserve the same respect. Even VDP, who was his collaborator, was supposedly ordered around just because Brian felt it was his right to do so. I'm basing this on claims in the Vosse and Anderle articles. With the notable exception of Daro, I have yet to see any of this "oh the Vosse Posse were such shallow posers"/"they thought they were so deep and ahead of Brian but they weren't!" kind of attitude some other posters here allude to. If anything I'd say it was the other way around. Vosse himself comes off as nothing but sympathetic to Brian and reverent of the project even two years later, after getting tossed aside from what had promised to be a lucrative career opportunity. He had every reason in the world to throw Brian under the bus, or claim VDP was the true brains, or even credit himself with more than he did. Instead he provided what is by far the most accurate and respectful testimony for what the sessions were like. The way these people often get thrown under the bus by fans astounds me. I think the only reason it happens is because they're not members of the band, and therefore BB fans feel more safe in using them as convenient scapegoats for why Brian broke down and why the album fell apart. TL;DR: Brian could be manipulative and borderline cruel when he wanted to be. I think both Mike and the Vosse Posse were victimized by him. Instead of blaming one or the other, blame Brian himself for the project and band's collapse. I only just got round to reading this. Thank you. You express yourself so well. Actually I seem to remember reading something similar on holiday last June.
|
|
mamawilson
Grommet
Highkey Beach Boys Mom
Posts: 7
Likes: 12
|
Post by mamawilson on Jan 23, 2019 20:52:24 GMT -5
Only S Kalinich could write lyrics like "Taste a grapefruit from a grapefruit tree" (and later on the same album "Majesty moves through me majestically" of course). That grapefruit lyric has always bothered me (not the mention of the fruit, but the mention of it twice in the same sentence, and the utter redundancy of it - OF COURSE grapefruit comes from a grapefruit tree...even singing "taste the grapefruit from a great big tree" would sound better!). I'm not a man easily bothered by lyrics, but jeez! And I thought I was the only one who was a little bugged by that lyric! Good to know we feel the same way.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jan 28, 2019 13:50:38 GMT -5
I meant to put this in my original post, but just saw something in another post that jogged my memory.
Frankly, I don't see why fans have made such a big deal about The Beach Boys having cheerleaders on stage in their later years. The cheerleaders aren't wearing anything you wouldn't see while attending a high school sporting event, and it's not like they were doing anything especially suggestive on stage. Maybe it's because I've seen the likes of Alice Cooper (with scantily clad naughty nurse) and Motley Crue (with nearly nude dancers), but I just don't understand the hubbub.
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 9:53:24 GMT -5
I meant to put this in my original post, but just saw something in another post that jogged my memory. Frankly, I don't see why fans have made such a big deal about The Beach Boys having cheerleaders on stage in their later years. The cheerleaders aren't wearing anything you wouldn't see while attending a high school sporting event, and it's not like they were doing anything especially suggestive on stage. Maybe it's because I've seen the likes of Alice Cooper (with scantily clad naughty nurse) and Motley Crue (with nearly nude dancers), but I just don't understand the hubbub. Frankly, Im not a big fan of cheerleading in general. Yeah, the outfits look cute but I find them kind of distracting and sending a bit of a mixed message to young women (look good for everyone, show off your legs, your athletics exist to compliment the men's etc) Im not saying cheerleading is evil or it should be banned, that's just my opinion. When it's part of a rock concert then it adds some other issues for me. It's cheesy--which may not bother some people, but it does to others including myself. Instead of a hard, rebellious rockband or a wholesome vocal group singing about angst if not the beach, it makes them feel like the school marching band. Again, maybe that's not a problem to some people but for me that's not the Beach Boys and high school football is not exactly what I want to be thinking of. (I hated high school.) Then there's the problem of age, and the message this sends. We associate cheerleaders with young women--15 to 18. By the 80s, the Boys were old. Way too old to be gazing after women so young and vulnerable. So, instead of sex appeal the whole thing becomes more than a little pervy, like that creepy uncle making lewd comments to you at family gatherings when nobody's watching. Perhaps even venturing into Catch a Predator territory. Along with singing their old hits again, it just feels like a bunch of old men in a midlife crisis pretending their lettered jacket still fits, that they're still "groovy" like they were in their youth. It played into that whole phony, pathetically reliving the old days look. Im not familiar with those other groups you'd mentioned but I'd hazard a guess they were younger and/or personified a more unambiguously "bad boy" image when they had scantily clad women dancing around on stage. So the women played into an appealing and unified theme. For all the reasons listed above, the Beach Boy cheerleaders didn't. It sent out a mixed message, ranging from midlife crisis to cradle robbing to the wholesome school marching band (which doesn't really jibe with rock and roll, or what actual high schoolers are into.)
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jan 30, 2019 10:05:29 GMT -5
I meant to put this in my original post, but just saw something in another post that jogged my memory. Frankly, I don't see why fans have made such a big deal about The Beach Boys having cheerleaders on stage in their later years. The cheerleaders aren't wearing anything you wouldn't see while attending a high school sporting event, and it's not like they were doing anything especially suggestive on stage. Maybe it's because I've seen the likes of Alice Cooper (with scantily clad naughty nurse) and Motley Crue (with nearly nude dancers), but I just don't understand the hubbub. Frankly, Im not a big fan of cheerleading in general. Yeah, the outfits look cute but I find them kind of distracting and sending a bit of a mixed message to young women (look good for everyone, show off your legs, your athletics exist to compliment the men's etc) Im not saying cheerleading is evil or it should be banned, that's just my opinion. When it's part of a rock concert then it adds some other issues for me. It's cheesy--which may not bother some people, but it does to others including myself. Instead of a hard, rebellious rockband or a wholesome vocal group singing about angst if not the beach, it makes them feel like the school marching band. Again, maybe that's not a problem to some people but for me that's not the Beach Boys and high school football is not exactly what I want to be thinking of. (I hated high school.) Then there's the problem of age, and the message this sends. We associate cheerleaders with young women--15 to 18. By the 80s, the Boys were old. Way too old to be gazing after women so young and vulnerable. So, instead of sex appeal the whole thing becomes more than a little pervy, like that creepy uncle making lewd comments to you at family gatherings when nobody's watching. Perhaps even venturing into Catch a Predator territory. Along with singing their old hits again, it just feels like a bunch of old men in a midlife crisis pretending their lettered jacket still fits, that they're still "groovy" like they were in their youth. It played into that whole phony, pathetically reliving the old days look. Im not familiar with those other groups you'd mentioned but I'd hazard a guess they were younger and/or personified a more unambiguously "bad boy" image when they had scantily clad women dancing around on stage. So the women played into an appealing and unified theme. For all the reasons listed above, the Beach Boy cheerleaders didn't. It sent out a mixed message, ranging from midlife crisis to cradle robbing to the wholesome school marching band (which doesn't really jibe with rock and roll, or what actual high schoolers are into.) While I respect your opinion, venturing into Catch a Predator territory is a tad hyperbolic I hope.
|
|
|
Post by The Cap'n on Jan 30, 2019 10:11:46 GMT -5
I fall in the middle on the cheerleader issue. (Surprise, surprise.)
Personally I mostly align with iluvleniloud on cheerleading in general: it seems like a pre-Title IX relic when boys play and girls cheer for them. That cheerleaders have become hypersexualized is a totally understandable but often creepy side effect. When I go to pro basketball game now and see a couple dozen cheerleaders in spandex shorts and sports bras "dancing" in a way that lacks only a pole and rain of dollar bills, it's not that I don't think they're gorgeous and attractive, it's more that I'm not sure it's a great thing to blend with basketball (and its all-ages, sexes, etc.) crowd.
That said, it isn't high on my priorities. That the Beach Boys more or less embarrassed themselves as middle aged men by decorating their stage with beautiful women far too young for them seems to put them squarely in the tradition of the mindset of middle aged men everywhere. Isn't the stereotypical midlife crisis the balding guy getting a sports car and a new young girlfriend (if he can afford it)?
On the scale of creepiness and lewdness, it was pretty far down the list. (Is that a mixed metaphor? Probably.) I'm not a fan of letter jackets, high school songs, cheerleading, or, for that matter, cars and surfing lyrics. But I compartmentalize as best I can, which, the better the music, the better I can.
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 10:17:40 GMT -5
kds I dont think any of the guys are pedos, and I know the cheerleaders on stage weren't that young. But the association between cheerleaders (which I, and I'd assume many other people, associate with high school girls) and these old men definitely ventures into that territory for me. It reminds me of the creepy old men who'd be undressing the girls with their eyes at games. Ironically, if the Beach Boys had gone the whole nine yards and had naked women on stage I almost feel like that would have gone over better. It's trying to have your cake and eat it too that makes me uncomfortable. On that note...why not just have women in bikinis? It's beach-themed and sex appeal but without that youthful association that comes with cheerleaders.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jan 30, 2019 10:20:13 GMT -5
kds I dont think any of the guys are pedos, and I know the cheerleaders on stage weren't that young. But the association between cheerleaders (which I, and I'd assume many other people, associate with high school girls) and these old men definitely ventures into that territory for me. It reminds me of the creepy old men who'd be undressing the girls with their eyes at games. Ironically, if the Beach Boys had gone the whole nine yards and had naked women on stage I almost feel like that would have gone over better. It's trying to have your cake and eat it too that makes me uncomfortable. On that note...why not just have women in bikinis? It's beach-themed and sex appeal but without that youthful association that comes with cheerleaders. That's fine, and I know I'm not going to change your, or anyone's, mind, so I'll just respectfully disagree and move on to the next hot take / unpopular opinion.
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jan 30, 2019 11:26:11 GMT -5
kds - a 60's mores standard where a lot of the music came from, represents that era's concept of school spirit. The touring band does use regional schools in that same way when on tour, so in NJ you see Princeton, or Rutgers, on the screen. If they are in NY - then you get NYU, Columbia or SUNY, etc. And, they do clips of how the costumes/uniforms have evolved, since the 60's, and they are decidedly skimpier but that was the style for those who follow fashion design and the evolution of cheerleading costumes. And, a lot of them are stylistically consistent, in time with what the professional teams were wearing on the field or the colleges and universities. It is not a 2019 lens, but part of the show (and a very small part, at that - like one or two songs in a setlist of 30-40 songs) and for a time they used a nautical theme with lights in triangular sail motifs, later, surf boards and palm trees, and I see it as very different from stuff that was done by rock bands - like smashing guitars (I hope they were cheap ones) or pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage.) At this point is is more a regional salute to the schools, in my opinion. I'm a feminist and am not offended and do not "read anything" untoward, into it. It may have its place in the grand scheme of things as part of the theatrical backdrop for these bands.
|
|
|
Post by kds on Jan 30, 2019 11:34:12 GMT -5
kds - a 60's mores standard where a lot of the music came from, represents that era's concept of school spirit. The touring band does use regional schools in that same way when on tour, so in NJ you see Princeton, or Rutgers, on the screen. If they are in NY - then you get NYU, Columbia or SUNY, etc. And, they do clips of how the costumes/uniforms have evolved, since the 60's, and they are decidedly skimpier but that was the style for those who follow fashion design and the evolution of cheerleading costumes. And, a lot of them are stylistically consistent, in time with what the professional teams were wearing on the field or the colleges and universities. It is not a 2019 lens, but part of the show (and a very small part, at that - like one or two songs in a setlist of 30-40 songs) and for a time they used a nautical theme with lights in triangular sail motifs, later, surf boards and palm trees, and I see it as very different from stuff that was done by rock bands - like smashing guitars (I hope they were cheap ones) or pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage.) At this point is is more a regional salute to the schools, in my opinion. I'm a feminist and am not offended and do not "read anything" untoward, into it. It may have its place in the grand scheme of things as part of the theatrical backdrop for these bands. To be fair, the pyro carnage you're likely referring to was an isolated awful tragedy. Your "pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage)" might imply that it's happened more than just that tragic Great White concert. So, I just wanted to add a little context to those who might not remember that incident.
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 11:45:08 GMT -5
pyrotechnics are awesome. It helps set the scene really effectively and provides something you can't see anywhere else. (As opposed to halfnaked women I can find anywhere online these days.) Smashing guitars is fun. It's just a harmless thing to do that shows how music is an outlet for the same primal urges which drive us towards sex and other physical acts (at least that's how I interpret it.)
Methinks if the Beach Boys had partaken in that sort of stage performance a certain someone would proclaim it genius and defend it to their dying day.
|
|
|
Post by The Cap'n on Jan 30, 2019 11:51:01 GMT -5
pyrotechnics are awesome. It helps set the scene really effectively and provides something you can't see anywhere else. You've never attended a 1980s police picnic held shortly after the 4th of July in rural Minnesota, have you? Because I recall plenty of impressive pyrotechnics with confiscated contraband. I still have all my fingers, too.
|
|
Departed
Former Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 11:56:49 GMT -5
pyrotechnics are awesome. It helps set the scene really effectively and provides something you can't see anywhere else. You've never attended a 1980s police picnic held shortly after the 4th of July in rural Minnesota, have you? Because I recall plenty of impressive pyrotechnics with confiscated contraband. I still have all my fingers, too. Im afraid not. Born in '92 DW Hey, we got BB face emojis!!
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Jan 30, 2019 12:17:10 GMT -5
kds - a 60's mores standard where a lot of the music came from, represents that era's concept of school spirit. The touring band does use regional schools in that same way when on tour, so in NJ you see Princeton, or Rutgers, on the screen. If they are in NY - then you get NYU, Columbia or SUNY, etc. And, they do clips of how the costumes/uniforms have evolved, since the 60's, and they are decidedly skimpier but that was the style for those who follow fashion design and the evolution of cheerleading costumes. And, a lot of them are stylistically consistent, in time with what the professional teams were wearing on the field or the colleges and universities. It is not a 2019 lens, but part of the show (and a very small part, at that - like one or two songs in a setlist of 30-40 songs) and for a time they used a nautical theme with lights in triangular sail motifs, later, surf boards and palm trees, and I see it as very different from stuff that was done by rock bands - like smashing guitars (I hope they were cheap ones) or pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage.) At this point is is more a regional salute to the schools, in my opinion. I'm a feminist and am not offended and do not "read anything" untoward, into it. It may have its place in the grand scheme of things as part of the theatrical backdrop for these bands. To be fair, the pyro carnage you're likely referring to was an isolated awful tragedy. Your "pyrotechnics (which ended up in carnage)" might imply that it's happened more than just that tragic Great White concert. So, I just wanted to add a little context to those who might not remember that incident. The Great White (Station nightclub ) was more than just a lesson in what should not happen. It changed the industry standards as far as permitting for pyrotechnics, sprinkler systems, and unblocked exits, the foam which was ignited and doors that opened inwardly instead of outwardly. OSHA cited them for no emergency action plan and employees not trained to assist with evacuation and fire hazards. They were also hit with failure to provide workers compensation insurance.
|
|