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Post by kds on Dec 26, 2018 12:03:49 GMT -5
I started a similar thread at PSF, but the kids are calling unpopular opinions hot takes these days. So, away we go.....
The 1992 Stamos version of Forever is a damn good version. As good as the Sunflower original? Of course not, but I love the power ballad arrangement, and its sung well by Jesse...er....John.
Plus, the use of this song in Full House did help shine a light on the song.
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Post by Autotune on Dec 26, 2018 13:20:13 GMT -5
Rated Love You above Pet Sounds. Mike Wheeler told me to go wash my ears.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 26, 2018 14:05:31 GMT -5
I LIKED the short 4:28 version of HERE COMES THE NIGHT. Still do. THAT is the cut that should have been on LA.
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Post by Bummer In Paradise on Dec 26, 2018 14:26:27 GMT -5
BB85 is a top 10 Beach Boys album.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 14:38:19 GMT -5
I started a similar thread at PSF, but the kids are calling unpopular opinions hot takes these days. So, away we go..... The 1992 Stamos version of Forever is a damn good version. As good as the Sunflower original? Of course not, but I love the power ballad arrangement, and its sung well by Jesse...er....John. Plus, the use of this song in Full House did help shine a light on the song. I agree, and it contains one of Carl Wilson's most emotional vocals - ever!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 14:47:31 GMT -5
I LIKED the short 4:28 version of HERE COMES THE NIGHT. Still do. THAT is the cut that should have been on LA. Other than the length of the L.A. (Light Album) version, I always liked "Here Comes The Night". Unless you dislike disco, and I can certainly understand that, what's not to like about it? It has that Brian Wilson melody, a great Carl Wilson lead vocal, full vintage BB harmonies, and pretty good lyrics. It came out a little late in the disco era, but it didn't deserve the criticism it got.
I still don't have the single version on CD or digital (cough...mp3...cough). It should've appeared on more comps. They did enough of 'em.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 26, 2018 17:45:52 GMT -5
I LIKED the short 4:28 version of HERE COMES THE NIGHT. Still do. THAT is the cut that should have been on LA. Other than the length of the L.A. (Light Album) version, I always liked "Here Comes The Night". Unless you dislike disco, and I can certainly understand that, what's not to like about it? It has that Brian Wilson melody, a great Carl Wilson lead vocal, full vintage BB harmonies, and pretty good lyrics. It came out a little late in the disco era, but it didn't deserve the criticism it got.
I still don't have the single version on CD or digital (cough...mp3...cough). It should've appeared on more comps. They did enough of 'em.
Sheriff, I don't know about the 2004 PLATINUM COLLECTION version or the 1995 UK/JAPAN BEST OF collections, but, the 1999 GH Volume 3 UK/JAPAN version of HCTN had to be edited down from the LP version with the end tacked on from vinyl. I don't hear vinyl noise in the 1995 or 2004 versions.Alan or AGD, do you know if the 45 mix still exist on tape?
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Post by Mikie on Dec 26, 2018 17:56:06 GMT -5
Rated Love You above Pet Sounds. Mike Wheeler told me to go wash my ears. Mike Wheeler! There's a name from the past who disappeared from Beach Boys fandom without a trace. Started up the Cabinessence board in the 90's then bolted for the exit!
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Dec 26, 2018 22:11:07 GMT -5
BB85 is a top 10 Beach Boys album. Many good songs in it.
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Post by kds on Dec 26, 2018 22:21:04 GMT -5
BB85 is a top 10 Beach Boys album. Many good songs in it. BB85 doesn't crack my top 10, but I think its a far better album than it gets credit for.
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Post by lonesurf on Dec 26, 2018 23:07:39 GMT -5
I LIKED the short 4:28 version of HERE COMES THE NIGHT. Still do. THAT is the cut that should have been on LA. Totally agree. And this superior edit would have left plenty of room on LA for another track (or two)! Always wondered what if HCTN had been released a year earlier & the band had managed to get a hit out of this production? How would the trajectory have changed?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 23:09:07 GMT -5
One or two of them aside, Brian's stoner friends/the Vosse Posse weren't bad guys, and if anything I think Brian mistreated them in the same manner he mistreated VDP and Mike Love.
Brian Wilson is a brilliant song-writer but a terrible leader and very flawed person (of course, that last title belongs to all of us as well.)
Brian killed SMiLE, and completely mishandled the situation with Mike. The latter had every right to be upset, though he shouldn't have taken it out on VDP who was just doing his job.
Brian's solo career is a massive disappointment outside of the Paley Sessions and TLOS. Even '88 isn't that good.
SMiLE would have had comedy segments and by at least Nov '66 it was poised to be a lot more similar to Smiley Smile than most fans think (or, perhaps, want to admit.)
Sunflower is a very good album but somewhat over-emphasized by fans.
Surf's Up is a mediocre album that does not stand the test of time
Carl Wilson was not a very good songwriter; Feel Flows, Long Promised Road and Trader do nothing for me.
These are my opinions.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 27, 2018 0:24:24 GMT -5
One or two of them aside, Brian's stoner friends/the Vosse Posse weren't bad guys, and if anything I think Brian mistreated them in the same manner he mistreated VDP and Mike Love. Brian Wilson is a brilliant song-writer but a terrible leader and very flawed person (of course, that last title belongs to all of us as well.) Brian killed SMiLE, and completely mishandled the situation with Mike. The latter had every right to be upset, though he shouldn't have taken it out on VDP who was just doing his job. Brian's solo career is a massive disappointment outside of the Paley Sessions and TLOS. Even '88 isn't that good. SMiLE would have had comedy segments and by at least Nov '66 it was poised to be a lot more similar to Smiley Smile than most fans think (or, perhaps, want to admit.) Sunflower is a very good album but somewhat over-emphasized by fans. Surf's Up is a mediocre album that does not stand the test of time Carl Wilson was not a very good songwriter; Feel Flows, Long Promised Road and Trader do nothing for me. These are my opinions.Carl Wilson's songwriting had potential. Feel Flows is one of my faves.
SURF'S UP is not as good of an LP as SUNFLOWER. The fact that the "industry" liked it more because of its social relevance really always twerked me. But, any LP with SURF'S UP and TIL I DIE can't be a complete wash.
Brian SUCKED as a manager. One of the reasons SMiLE died is because there was no leadership in the group. A manager would have kept Brian focused. With a manager, Brian could have gotten the help he needed. A manager can be a third party sounding board. But we will never know.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 1:29:45 GMT -5
One or two of them aside, Brian's stoner friends/the Vosse Posse weren't bad guys, and if anything I think Brian mistreated them in the same manner he mistreated VDP and Mike Love. Brian Wilson is a brilliant song-writer but a terrible leader and very flawed person (of course, that last title belongs to all of us as well.) Brian killed SMiLE, and completely mishandled the situation with Mike. The latter had every right to be upset, though he shouldn't have taken it out on VDP who was just doing his job. Brian's solo career is a massive disappointment outside of the Paley Sessions and TLOS. Even '88 isn't that good. SMiLE would have had comedy segments and by at least Nov '66 it was poised to be a lot more similar to Smiley Smile than most fans think (or, perhaps, want to admit.) Sunflower is a very good album but somewhat over-emphasized by fans. Surf's Up is a mediocre album that does not stand the test of time Carl Wilson was not a very good songwriter; Feel Flows, Long Promised Road and Trader do nothing for me. These are my opinions.I agree with EVERY one of your points. Gee, that's no fun. No, seriously, the only one I wanted to comment on was the Surf's Up album. I agree that it is mediocre but it woulda/coulda/shoulda been a great album. I believe that two songs added (to any album actually) could result in a significantly stronger album. Oh, man, if they just could've included "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again" and "4th Of July"...They didn't even have to delete any songs, though "Take A Load Off Your Feet" is weak; just add those two. Maybe even "Lady", but that's REALLY asking too much...
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 27, 2018 1:47:22 GMT -5
This is one that I might get burned for, but here goes. Dennis' later songs (after Holland) never really hit me as strong as it has others. I got a lot of crap from others back in the day when I said my fave track on POB was YOU AND I. People told me that is the most commercial track, why that one and not some of the more esoteric cuts. Years later, Brian said YOU AND I was his fave so I felt a little vindicated. BABY BLUE is killer. But LOVES SURROUNDS ME just lays there. I think Dennis was a hell of a producer, but his melodies after HOLLAND were fragments. And, at the risk of sounding like Dr. Love, the lack of hooks always bothered me. Hooks make the tune. Even SMILE had hooks.
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Post by kds on Dec 27, 2018 1:56:30 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons that The Beach Boys don't get the respect or acclaim as some of their peers is because, with the obvious exception of Pet Sounds, they never really made that leap from singles band to album band.
As much as I like much of their 1967-73, the albums are flawed with song sequence and song selection issues.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 2:23:36 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons that The Beach Boys don't get the respect or acclaim as some of their peers is because, with the obvious exception of Pet Sounds, they never really made that leap from singles band to album band. As much as I like much of their 1967-73, the albums are flawed with song sequence and song selection issues. My perspective is that, even though The Beach Boys were capable of making decent albums large part of the time up to 1985, they didn't really utilize their capability - elimination of good songs, addition of bad/out-of-place songs and bad sequence seem to be always the case with them. The only cases they got rid of that inclination is Pet Sounds, and to lesser extent, Sunflower.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 2:46:29 GMT -5
The Jack Rieley era of the group produced some good music with an even better live presentation but many of his lyrics sound like exercises in a high school creative writing class, with such blatant pandering to the then-hip Rolling Stone magazine/hippie crowd who were too hoodwinked to appreciate the genuine hipness of albums like "Wild Honey" and "Friends".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 2:49:36 GMT -5
I've got a bunch of hot takes regarding their post-Endless Summer era:
- Love Is A Woman, Match Point of Our Love, Crack At Your Love and Kokomo are all fantastic, breathtakingly amazing songs.
- On Broadway from Adult Child is the best cover The BB did in 70's.
- 15 Big Ones is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be - It has distinct, unique sound only Brian in this era could create and it's authentic, respectable part of Brian's music. However, the outtakes (i.e. Sea Cruise) are even better.
- Lazy Lizzie has a nice melody (not only "Better Get Back In Bed" part) and I sincerely hope it will got released in 2026.
- Runaway Dancer is one of the three best songs on No Pier Pressure (the others being One Kind of Love and Sail Away), and I'd rather listen to Runaway Dancer than Summer's Gone.
- Unleash the Love (Disc 1) is more satisfying listen than No Pier Pressure
- Sweet Insanity is great, and Do You Have Any Regrets is one of the best things Brian did after he went solo.
- It's Just A Matter of Time, California Calling, Winds of Change, Brian's Back and Crocodile Rock are not the best things they've ever done, but they're unfairly underrated by fans.
- I like the BB's "hot" version of Rock And Roll Music much better than The Beatles'.
- Lady Lynda was a deserved hit.
- I'd love to see a CD of all the Shortenin' Bread/Ding Dong variation Brian did in 70's-80's, rather than SMiLE box set vol.II.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 27, 2018 3:21:33 GMT -5
Also, I think having Bruce return added a great deal of stablity to the band when they needed it. Jerry Schilling is an unsung hero in their story. That said, Bruce was the wrong person to produce the group. He leaned away from ROCK AND ROLL to more MOR soundscapes. The title track on KTSA is a standout case in point. Live it kicked ass. Studio version sounds so tame.
The live groups (Brian and Mike both) play the songs exactly like they sound on record. None of that distortion crap Carl used to add energy to the live show. We don't want that. Mike Love said the group was never RNR but AC or MOR. Easy listening. Now thank goodness we have that....NOT!
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Post by kds on Dec 27, 2018 7:34:59 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons that The Beach Boys don't get the respect or acclaim as some of their peers is because, with the obvious exception of Pet Sounds, they never really made that leap from singles band to album band. As much as I like much of their 1967-73, the albums are flawed with song sequence and song selection issues. My perspective is that, even though The Beach Boys were capable of making decent albums large part of the time up to 1985, they didn't really utilize their capability - elimination of good songs, addition of bad/out-of-place songs and bad sequence seem to be always the case with them. The only cases they got rid of that inclination is Pet Sounds, and to lesser extent, Sunflower. Couldn't agree more.
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Post by Autotune on Dec 27, 2018 7:44:38 GMT -5
I found the “Love & mercy” Brian signature that finished off his messages during the last 20 years or so annoying and forceful. Good to see they’re doing without it lately.
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Post by jiggy22 on Dec 27, 2018 16:13:49 GMT -5
- Lazy Lizzie has a nice melody (not only "Better Get Back In Bed" part) and I sincerely hope it will get released in 2026. Great to see another enlightened fan of Lazy Lizzy!
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Post by kds on Dec 27, 2018 22:18:55 GMT -5
While I do think its the Beach Boys' weakest album, SIP is a decent listen IMO. I really think the album is sullied by four godawful tracks - Surfin 92, Summer of Love, Under the Boardwalk, and Remember Walkin in the Sand. But the other eight songs range from decent to very good.
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Post by The Cincinnati Kid on Dec 27, 2018 22:44:31 GMT -5
The chorus of Summer of Love is really catchy.
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