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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 27, 2018 22:47:37 GMT -5
I like the BBs' version of "Remember (Walkin' In The Sand)". Maybe because I've never heard the original.
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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 27, 2018 22:48:39 GMT -5
I like most of Sweet Insanity. The tunes are tuneful, and Brian's lead vocals are way better than on the '88 solo album.
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Post by Autotune on Dec 27, 2018 23:53:59 GMT -5
The chorus of Summer of Love is really catchy. Indeed. But SOL suffers from overabundance of hooks: 1. Girls are always ready, etc. 2. I can’t wait til summer, etc. 3. It’s a love thing 4. Hey now 5. Sum sum summer |
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Post by Autotune on Dec 27, 2018 23:55:16 GMT -5
I can’t remember half the songs of NPP.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Dec 28, 2018 0:09:06 GMT -5
SIP's good tracks to me are Still Surfin', Lahaina Aloha and Forever.
Kokomo still grates on me.
Mike Love is an excellent lyricist WHEN he strives to be. When he panders trying to sound "surfy", he dies quickly.
I have said this before and didn't get killed so I will say it again. Brian's "friends" during the SMILE period were nothing more that glorified hangers-on who got high with Brian and ran errands for him. Loren Daro was the worst, but all of them were just so.....average. David Leaf said in his book that the Beach Boys were just average compared to these heavy thinkers. Listening to their ideas as they related them later (and even to Leaf in his book) sounded like the same stoner shit I heard as a teen. Yes, I was that a-hole friend everyone had that wouldn't get high. Never did. Part of the reason was sitting around people who were stoned making statements like "What if we made food free to everyone. That would be so cool!" Um somebody has to pay for it. "No, we will get the farmers to just give it to us. This will be epic!" The guys around Brian had the same stupid ideas.
Carl Wilson should have insisted on co-producing with Brian when Brian restarted with the group in 1976. Carl could have added polish and arrangement ideas to the tunes they were recording.
Everyone says that the Wilsons were battered by the mediators in the group. They were the free spirits of the band with all of the creativity. The Wilsons did drugs to numb the abuse of Mike Love and Alan Jardine. This is utter bullshit. The Wilsons were abused by their father and that made them self destructive. It makes great copy for writers to say "The Wilsons drowned their feelings with chemicals, disturbed by the circus their band had become." Really? You are 3/5 of the band. Don't like Mike and Al doing XYZ. Then call a meeting and tell them to get in line with where the band is going or quit. "But Bob, they shouldn't have had to do it. The others should naturally have gone along with the Wilsons, no questions asked." In a perfect world, yes. But since the other two bucked, the Wilsons should have said come with us or go. But they couldn't because their own lives were spiraling down. Want proof that kicking ass gets results. How fantastic did the band sound after Carl came back after being gone for 18 months? He said we rehearse or I am out. He got out. They finally gave in. And the touring group was reborn. I was there. 1983 did NOT sound anything like early 1982.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 6:42:01 GMT -5
The chorus of Summer of Love is really catchy. I would say the same about the chorus to Smart Girls |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 9:28:17 GMT -5
I like most of Sweet Insanity. The tunes are tuneful, and Brian's lead vocals are way better than on the '88 solo album. I agree. Brian's singing was much better, less "shouty". I thought Brian needed a producer, the right producer, for those songs to reach their potential. And when they were resurrected with GIOMH, they still didn't have the right producer.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 9:37:47 GMT -5
I have said this before and didn't get killed so I will say it again. Brian's "friends" during the SMILE period were nothing more that glorified hangers-on who got high with Brian and ran errands for him. Loren Daro was the worst, but all of them were just so.....average. David Leaf said in his book that the Beach Boys were just average compared to these heavy thinkers. Listening to their ideas as they related them later (and even to Leaf in his book) sounded like the same stoner shit I heard as a teen. Yes, I was that a-hole friend everyone had that wouldn't get high. Never did. Part of the reason was sitting around people who were stoned making statements like "What if we made food free to everyone. That would be so cool!" Um somebody has to pay for it. "No, we will get the farmers to just give it to us. This will be epic!" The guys around Brian had the same stupid ideas. Playing Devil's advocate, and echoing Loren Schwartz (spelling?), and in a way David Anderle...but look at the music that came out of that period. Today!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights), Pet Sounds, and SMiLE were recorded with the "hangers-on" present. Should we blame them, give them credit, or would've Brian recorded all of that great music without them anyway? I remember reading something that David Anderle said, and I'm paraphrasing, "As long as the music is good..." |
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Post by filledeplage on Dec 28, 2018 9:39:07 GMT -5
SIP's good tracks to me are Still Surfin', Lahaina Aloha and Forever. Kokomo still grates on me. Mike Love is an excellent lyricist WHEN he strives to be. When he panders trying to sound "surfy", he dies quickly. I have said this before and didn't get killed so I will say it again. Brian's "friends" during the SMILE period were nothing more that glorified hangers-on who got high with Brian and ran errands for him. Loren Daro was the worst, but all of them were just so.....average. David Leaf said in his book that the Beach Boys were just average compared to these heavy thinkers. Listening to their ideas as they related them later (and even to Leaf in his book) sounded like the same stoner shit I heard as a teen. Yes, I was that a-hole friend everyone had that wouldn't get high. Never did. Part of the reason was sitting around people who were stoned making statements like "What if we made food free to everyone. That would be so cool!" Um somebody has to pay for it. "No, we will get the farmers to just give it to us. This will be epic!" The guys around Brian had the same stupid ideas. Carl Wilson should have insisted on co-producing with Brian when Brian restarted with the group in 1976. Carl could have added polish and arrangement ideas to the tunes they were recording. Everyone says that the Wilsons were battered by the mediators in the group. They were the free spirits of the band with all of the creativity. The Wilsons did drugs to numb the abuse of Mike Love and Alan Jardine. This is utter bullshit. The Wilsons were abused by their father and that made them self destructive. It makes great copy for writers to say "The Wilsons drowned their feelings with chemicals, disturbed by the circus their band had become." Really? You are 3/5 of the band. Don't like Mike and Al doing XYZ. Then call a meeting and tell them to get in line with where the band is going or quit. "But Bob, they shouldn't have had to do it. The others should naturally have gone along with the Wilsons, no questions asked." In a perfect world, yes. But since the other two bucked, the Wilsons should have said come with us or go. But they couldn't because their own lives were spiraling down. Want proof that kicking ass gets results. How fantastic did the band sound after Carl came back after being gone for 18 months? He said we rehearse or I am out. He got out. They finally gave in. And the touring group was reborn. I was there. 1983 did NOT sound anything like early 1982. Agree with 99% - but I love what Kokomo did to resurrect their mojo with the public. When you have little kids singing Aruba, Jamaica to the tune of Kokomo in 1988 - nearly 30 years after the band started, it is so hard not to celebrate that triumph. A #1 at that point in their career was such a triumph and thrill for the fans. 🏄🏻♂️🏄🏻♀️ 🏖 (We don’t have to love every single song - that is just our personal taste which you are entitled to.) But I think it is such a fun song. 🏝 I loved your post. ❤️ |
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Post by filledeplage on Dec 28, 2018 9:49:05 GMT -5
I have said this before and didn't get killed so I will say it again. Brian's "friends" during the SMILE period were nothing more that glorified hangers-on who got high with Brian and ran errands for him. Loren Daro was the worst, but all of them were just so.....average. David Leaf said in his book that the Beach Boys were just average compared to these heavy thinkers. Listening to their ideas as they related them later (and even to Leaf in his book) sounded like the same stoner shit I heard as a teen. Yes, I was that a-hole friend everyone had that wouldn't get high. Never did. Part of the reason was sitting around people who were stoned making statements like "What if we made food free to everyone. That would be so cool!" Um somebody has to pay for it. "No, we will get the farmers to just give it to us. This will be epic!" The guys around Brian had the same stupid ideas. Playing Devil's advocate, and echoing Loren Schwartz (spelling?), and in a way David Anderle...but look at the music that came out of that period. Today!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights), Pet Sounds, and SMiLE were recorded with the "hangers-on" present. Should we blame them, give them credit, or would've Brian recorded all of that great music without them anyway? I remember reading something that David Anderle said, and I'm paraphrasing, "As long as the music is good..." You don’t have to even play devil’s advocate. What Daro did likely could not have happened today without repercussions and severe career sanctions. (Or worse) And from where I sit, anyone who was involved in factionalizing the band - especially one with family members, should have been fired. Striving for unity always works best and it is in the best interests of the company - bringing the band together should always be the goal. It goes back to the organic origins. They were not like The Monkees - who were a “formula” - they had tinkered with music on their own for years and formed the band with people who shared deep connections, such as school mates and/or neighbors. Opportunists seek to divide and conquer and are out to feather their own nests. JMHO |
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Post by kds on Dec 28, 2018 10:18:45 GMT -5
I honestly think most of the Kokomo and SIP hate stems from the fact that Brian Wilson had nothing to do with either.
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Post by nach0king on Dec 28, 2018 10:54:09 GMT -5
Brian had more of a role in his bad behavior than many would feel comfortable admitting (i.e. it wasn't all big bad Murry's fault that Mike didn't get songwriting credits.)
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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 28, 2018 12:02:05 GMT -5
Sunflower is poorly mixed. The drums sound plasticy, the bass is all mud, the backing vocals are overly-trebly and grating, there's distortion all over the place, the experiments with new stereo effects don't make the music sound better, and certain tracks are mixed in an odd way that turns all the instruments to a bed of lifeless mush underneath vocals that are way too loud (looking at you Add Some Music and This Whole World). Desper's patented Audio Fuckery™ didn't come into its own until Surf's Up and Spring. Hmm...are you listening to the original vinyl, or one of the later iterations? Some of those CD masterings sound better than others, so I'm wondering if that may be the problem? |
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Post by filledeplage on Dec 28, 2018 12:03:43 GMT -5
I honestly think most of the Kokomo and SIP hate stems from the fact that Brian Wilson had nothing to do with either. From all accounts that window of time where Landy was in control where Brian was not "available." It was not Brian's fault. It makes me wonder if anyone even bothers to look at a time-line to sort this out. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 28, 2018 12:04:08 GMT -5
I like "Sumahama". Nice melody, clever lyrics, pleasant production, good vocals. Nothing "self-parodying" about it, like many of M.L.'s lyrics and vocals of the era. This one's a good one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 12:35:45 GMT -5
SIP's good tracks to me are Still Surfin', Lahaina Aloha and Forever. Kokomo still grates on me. Mike Love is an excellent lyricist WHEN he strives to be. When he panders trying to sound "surfy", he dies quickly. I have said this before and didn't get killed so I will say it again. Brian's "friends" during the SMILE period were nothing more that glorified hangers-on who got high with Brian and ran errands for him. Loren Daro was the worst, but all of them were just so.....average. David Leaf said in his book that the Beach Boys were just average compared to these heavy thinkers. Listening to their ideas as they related them later (and even to Leaf in his book) sounded like the same stoner shit I heard as a teen. Yes, I was that a-hole friend everyone had that wouldn't get high. Never did. Part of the reason was sitting around people who were stoned making statements like "What if we made food free to everyone. That would be so cool!" Um somebody has to pay for it. "No, we will get the farmers to just give it to us. This will be epic!" The guys around Brian had the same stupid ideas. Carl Wilson should have insisted on co-producing with Brian when Brian restarted with the group in 1976. Carl could have added polish and arrangement ideas to the tunes they were recording. Everyone says that the Wilsons were battered by the mediators in the group. They were the free spirits of the band with all of the creativity. The Wilsons did drugs to numb the abuse of Mike Love and Alan Jardine. This is utter bullshit. The Wilsons were abused by their father and that made them self destructive. It makes great copy for writers to say "The Wilsons drowned their feelings with chemicals, disturbed by the circus their band had become." Really? You are 3/5 of the band. Don't like Mike and Al doing XYZ. Then call a meeting and tell them to get in line with where the band is going or quit. "But Bob, they shouldn't have had to do it. The others should naturally have gone along with the Wilsons, no questions asked." In a perfect world, yes. But since the other two bucked, the Wilsons should have said come with us or go. But they couldn't because their own lives were spiraling down. Want proof that kicking ass gets results. How fantastic did the band sound after Carl came back after being gone for 18 months? He said we rehearse or I am out. He got out. They finally gave in. And the touring group was reborn. I was there. 1983 did NOT sound anything like early 1982. I dont think these are hot takes at all; that's pretty much the majority opinion on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 12:37:58 GMT -5
Carl Wilson should have insisted on co-producing with Brian when Brian restarted with the group in 1976. Carl could have added polish and arrangement ideas to the tunes they were recording. Big yes. I'm all for leaving Brian alone to his own devices and not restricting his creativity, but Carl added a ton to Love You. Didn't restrict anything, just gave it the extra touches that Brian was no longer willing to go all-out on and the album's all the better for it (I like 15BO and Adult Child a lot but they...don't have that). Even in the Sunflower-Holland era a lot of Brian's strongest individual songs were co-productions with Carl. I've read that Carl did a lot of work on Love You and I've heard the (bootleg) tapes before Carl's entrance. It's obvious that Carl added his guitar multiple places, and it obviously improved the songs. But, other than grafting his guitar onto existing tracks, what specifically did Carl add to Love You? I'm not trying to pin you down, saltymarshmallow, but can anybody list specific songs and specific parts that Carl contributed, other than guitar parts? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 12:40:08 GMT -5
I can’t remember half the songs of NPP. Here's a Hot Take - I think No Pier Pressure is Brian's best solo album!  |
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Post by lonesurf on Dec 28, 2018 12:44:19 GMT -5
Brian had more of a role in his bad behavior than many would feel comfortable admitting (i.e. it wasn't all big bad Murry's fault that Mike didn't get songwriting credits.) I tend to agree with this re: Mike & songwriting. I know that Murry was constantly pushing to consolidate things within the Wilson family as much as possible (look at how quickly he moved to formalize David's resignation), but it begs incredulity for me to believe that Brian (who loved hit pop records) knew nothing about his song publishing. I'm not saying it was all about the money for Brian. But ... young Brian Wilson was supremely competitive. It simply had to be a thrill (& a big stroke to his ego) for him to see big hits that solely credited him as the songwriter & producer. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 28, 2018 12:50:05 GMT -5
Hmm...are you listening to the original vinyl, or one of the later iterations? Some of those CD masterings sound better than others, so I'm wondering if that may be the problem? I haven't heard the vinyl so that might just be a problem on my end, but the ones I've heard feel like either extreme. 2001/2015 versions are muddy, 2009 version is shrill and has all those distortion moments. Maybe I've gotta hunt down that original pressing. The Acoustic Sounds Analogue Productions CD release is supposed to be great (don't have it myself, so can't vouch for it), but here's a quote from the esteemed Lee Dempsey vouching for it: "What I can say is that Kevin Gray has been able to extract every last bit of information from whatever tape is in the box, and present it in a way that is pleasing and natural to the ear. ... in my opinion, the Analogue Productions pressings are now THE definitive issue of each Beach Boys album, and will be my reference copies until if and when something better comes along — which may be never." — Lee Dempsey, Endless Summer Quarterly, Summer 2015 Edition store.acousticsounds.com/d/95593/The_Beach_Boys-Sunflower-Hybrid_Stereo_SACD |
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Post by craigslowinski on Dec 28, 2018 12:51:35 GMT -5
Big yes. I'm all for leaving Brian alone to his own devices and not restricting his creativity, but Carl added a ton to Love You. Didn't restrict anything, just gave it the extra touches that Brian was no longer willing to go all-out on and the album's all the better for it (I like 15BO and Adult Child a lot but they...don't have that). Even in the Sunflower-Holland era a lot of Brian's strongest individual songs were co-productions with Carl. I've read that Carl did a lot of work on Love You and I've heard the (bootleg) tapes before Carl's entrance. It's obvious that Carl added his guitar multiple places, and it obviously improved the songs. But, other than grafting his guitar onto existing tracks, what specifically did Carl add to Love You? I'm not trying to pin you down, saltymarshmallow, but can anybody list specific songs and specific parts that Carl contributed, other than guitar parts? Well, he produced the "mix" - that thunderous drum sound, the presence on the keyboards (piano, organ, Moog bass) - we can thank Carl for all that. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 13:07:12 GMT -5
I've read that Carl did a lot of work on Love You and I've heard the (bootleg) tapes before Carl's entrance. It's obvious that Carl added his guitar multiple places, and it obviously improved the songs. But, other than grafting his guitar onto existing tracks, what specifically did Carl add to Love You? I'm not trying to pin you down, saltymarshmallow, but can anybody list specific songs and specific parts that Carl contributed, other than guitar parts? Well, he produced the "mix" - that thunderous drum sound, the presence on the keyboards (piano, organ, Moog bass) - we can thank Carl for all that. Yes, Carl is indeed listed as Mixdown Producer, but I never knew if Carl's mixing was different from Brian's vision, or the way Brian cut the tracks. And, again, from what I read, Brian did that mostly on his own. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 13:10:29 GMT -5
Well, he produced the "mix" - that thunderous drum sound, the presence on the keyboards (piano, organ, Moog bass) - we can thank Carl for all that. & having been fortunate enough to hear a couple of the early mixes in decent quality, it made a hell of a difference! I'm not trying to slight Carl's contribution, really, just questioning it. Frankly, I DIDN'T hear much of a difference from the early mixes. All I heard added were some guitar flourishes and an occasional vocal part. And I did state that he (Carl) did improve it. |
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Post by hankbriarstem on Dec 28, 2018 13:24:30 GMT -5
FFF is better than any Beatles rock n roll song.
IGA is a step ahead in sound and freshness at least comparable to anything on Pet Sounds, or to GV.
I judge people harshly if they dislike or are unmoved by GOK. And I correct them if they speak as it plays.
Whenever I was in the most physical pain of my life, I listened to DWB again and again and again.
I gets tears in my eyes each time I hear SG or IMR.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 13:42:36 GMT -5
I've read that Carl did a lot of work on Love You and I've heard the (bootleg) tapes before Carl's entrance. It's obvious that Carl added his guitar multiple places, and it obviously improved the songs. But, other than grafting his guitar onto existing tracks, what specifically did Carl add to Love You? I'm not trying to pin you down, saltymarshmallow, but can anybody list specific songs and specific parts that Carl contributed, other than guitar parts? Well, he produced the "mix" - that thunderous drum sound, the presence on the keyboards (piano, organ, Moog bass) - we can thank Carl for all that. You should credit Earle Mankey for the stand out sonics on some of the Love You tracks, especially Let Us Go On This Way. Earle was essentially a co-producer on some of them. He described to me how he and Brian worked alone, building basic tracks and overdubbing parts. |
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