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Post by jk on Sept 24, 2022 4:01:24 GMT -5
There are indeed "ocean sounds" on all versions of Lonely Sea, that could easily be mistaken for tape noise. Gary Usher said that he and Brian recorded the ocean late at night, for atmosphere, the same way they recorded Gary's car for 409. They had to knock on someone's door to ask for an extension cable.Thank you, sir. I recall reading about this episode. I see now it was in Gaines's book. But… I recognize the following description as well -- wherever it originally came from: THE STORY BEHIND "LONELY SEA" One day in 1962, Gary Usher followed the music to the Wilson garage, where he and Brian immediately became best friends and collaborators, writing "Lonely Sea" in its entirety that same day. Perfectionist Brian insisted on realistic ocean sounds for the recording; so the two loaded his huge Wollensak electric reel-to-reel tape recorder and a 100-foot extension cord into Usher's car and headed for the beach. Usher often recalled knocking on someone's door at 1:00 a.m., asking for permission to plug into an outlet. In his book Sonic Alchemy, David N. Howard quotes Usher as telling Brian, "This isn't music...it's madness." NM [ Source] I'm not on Facebook so I have no idea who NM is. Well, it may be auto-suggestion but listening through an ear-bud to the left channel of that video there's definitely something happening behind the opening guitar pattern that is too dynamic to be just tape hiss, even to these cloth ears. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Sept 24, 2022 8:30:37 GMT -5
“I Do” has wedding bells.
“I Just Got My Pay” has an alarm clock.
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Post by jk on Sept 24, 2022 8:51:27 GMT -5
“I Do” has wedding bells.“I Just Got My Pay” has an alarm clock. That's Frank Capp on tubular bells, a musical instrument whose first use by a classical composer was probably by Arthur Sullivan in 1886:  I think we have to be a bit careful here. The cello and Tannerin (Mikie's "woo woo machine") are musical instruments perhaps supplying an effect, but that's not the same as being an effect. |
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west
Kahuna
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Likes: 137
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Post by west on Sept 24, 2022 9:29:20 GMT -5
I seem to remember reading in someone's book (maybe even in some album liner notes) that one of the complaints about the Morgan's mix of 'Surfin' ' was that on the recording they could hear cars driving down the street just outside the studio. I've been trying to find that quote, but to no luck so far.
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sloopjohnb
Historian / Researcher 
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Likes: 412
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Post by sloopjohnb on Sept 24, 2022 9:33:28 GMT -5
I don't hear any ocean sound - only tape hiss. No audible tape hiss here, just poorly recorded beach ambience. Doesn't sound like there were any waves that day, so all you really get is wind, which, as jk said, sounds exactly like tape hiss! |
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Post by jk on Sept 24, 2022 9:42:20 GMT -5
I seem to remember reading in someone's book (maybe even in some album liner notes) that one of the complaints about the Morgan's mix of 'Surfin' ' was that on the recording they could hear cars driving down the street just outside the studio. I've been trying to find that quote, but to no luck so far. I couldn't find a quote but I did find this (go to "The Recordings"):
albumlinernotes.com/Lost___Found___61-_62_.html |
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west
Kahuna
Posts: 140
Likes: 137
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Post by west on Sept 24, 2022 10:07:32 GMT -5
I seem to remember reading in someone's book (maybe even in some album liner notes) that one of the complaints about the Morgan's mix of 'Surfin' ' was that on the recording they could hear cars driving down the street just outside the studio. I've been trying to find that quote, but to no luck so far. I couldn't find a quote but I did find this (go to "The Recordings"):
albumlinernotes.com/Lost___Found___61-_62_.htmlThat sounds like what I remember! So it was the Morgan's living room, not the studio. And demos, not the actual released single. Thank you! |
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Post by Mikie on Sept 24, 2022 10:17:33 GMT -5
“I Do” has wedding bells.“I Just Got My Pay” has an alarm clock. That's Frank Capp on tubular bells, a musical instrument whose first use by a classical composer was probably by Arthur Sullivan in 1886: I think we have to be a bit careful here. The cello and Tannerin (Mikie's "woo woo machine") are musical instruments perhaps supplying an effect, but that's not the same as being an effect. No need to be careful. They've always been effects to me, and whether intended or not, that's my opinion thereof. |
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Post by Stephen W. Desper on Sept 24, 2022 10:35:09 GMT -5
As I remember reading years ago: 'Take A Load Off Your Feet' - Brian standing on his roof rustling gravel under his feet. Maybe Stephen can verify Yeah or Nah? That's what he told me back in 1985. Maybe I should post that interview here.  . ~swd |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Sept 24, 2022 10:41:36 GMT -5
The 1977 early mix of Pitter Patter has rain and thunder sounds to open the track.
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Post by Mikie on Sept 24, 2022 11:20:53 GMT -5
That's what he told me back in 1985. Maybe I should post that interview here. . ~swd Thanks for the confirmation, Steve. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Sept 24, 2022 11:36:53 GMT -5
Aren’t there also walking effects on Brian’s “Walkin’ the Line?”
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Post by Mikie on Sept 24, 2022 11:48:11 GMT -5
The cigarette butt when you throw it in the water goes 'phsst'. - Everybody Wants To Live.
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Post by Mikie on Sept 24, 2022 12:04:14 GMT -5
Aren’t there also walking effects on Brian’s “Walk-in’ the Line?” I think.......maybe. And some on "Rio Grande" too. And of course the intro to Jan & Dean's "Drag City". Thought I'd throw that in there..... |
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Post by ironhorseapples on Sept 24, 2022 12:39:48 GMT -5
I was going to mention the Dennis sex noises on 20/20 but was beaten to it.
I'll settle for the fairground noises in Amusement Parks USA.
Crowd noises on the recreated live tracks on 'Concert' '64
Party noises on Party - a whole album's worth
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Post by Mikie on Sept 24, 2022 13:01:49 GMT -5
I was going to mention the Dennis sex noises on 20/20 but was beaten to it. I'll settle for the fairground noises in Amusement Parks USA. Crowd noises on the recreated live tracks on 'Concert' '64 Party noises on Party - a whole album's worth I dunno, aren't the concert audience noises natural? I think I remember the '64 concert notes indicating that they didn't have to turn up the audience noises because it was already loud. And definitely a big YES on the Party! party effects. How could I forget that? |
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Post by Stephen W. Desper on Sept 24, 2022 16:27:17 GMT -5
COMMENT: And then there're the dropouts on Good Vibrations. Those were caused during the editing session. Lots of tape spooled onto the floor in the process. Someone did not look where they were stepping and damaged (bent into crinkles) part of the tape. It does pass by the playback head, but still parts pull away from the gap, no matter what, and the result is that strange interruptive sound.
I guess that doesn't count as an effect, but still made a difference in the sound -- like it or not. ~swd
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Post by jk on Sept 25, 2022 4:10:59 GMT -5
There's also the intermediate category of treatments of instruments. Take the tack piano Brian used on Pet Sounds and elsewhere. * Actually, "I'm Waiting For The Day" kills two birds with one stone. On it, Al de Lory is playing an upright tack piano with taped strings, another treatment more elaborately developed in earlier decades by John Cage (see link below): The passage just after the ten-minute mark has shades of the (tack?) piano with taped strings in "Bag Of Tricks" from TSS (from 2:00 onwards): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepared_piano* Although there is no damaged incurred, not all venue owners are happy about the idea of having tacks pushed into the felt of their piano hammers! |
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littleleila
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 59
Likes: 80
Favorite Album: Sunflower
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Post by littleleila on Sept 25, 2022 4:53:13 GMT -5
The 1977 early mix of Pitter Patter has rain and thunder sounds to open the track. Also rain at the start of "The Warmth Of the Sun" comp version of "California Dreamin" and at the end of "Summer's Gone" with waves as well. |
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Post by jk on Sept 25, 2022 4:54:55 GMT -5
Of course, the most famous of Brian's piano treatments required the help of Tony Asher (here at 4:28):
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Post by ironhorseapples on Sept 25, 2022 5:26:16 GMT -5
I was going to mention the Dennis sex noises on 20/20 but was beaten to it. I'll settle for the fairground noises in Amusement Parks USA. Crowd noises on the recreated live tracks on 'Concert' '64 Party noises on Party - a whole album's worth I dunno, aren't the concert audience noises natural? I think I remember the '64 concert notes indicating that they didn't have to turn up the audience noises because it was already loud. And definitely a big YES on the Party! party effects. How could I forget that? You're probably right on the Concert front. However I do seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the tracks was recreated because of a sub par performance. I may be confusing it with Leid in Hawaii though. Perhaps it was that they had to augment some of the Concert tracks because of the issues you mentioned. |
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Post by Stephen W. Desper on Sept 25, 2022 8:32:27 GMT -5
COMMENT: I'm certain many engineers have played around with piano modifications from time to time, including me. It's just that we didn't have a video running while we experimented.
To give a staccato sound to the piano, place masking tape across the strings of a concert piano. This stops the sympathetic vibration usually produced by the un-taped strings (normal operation) and is useful to get the piano to "cut" through a complex mixture of sounds in a mix. Done it often for Brian.
Any upright Piano can be converted to a Tack Piano by simply pushing 88 thumbtacks into place where each hammer hits the string. So-called Tack Pianos used by the Beach Boys usually had a Mandolin Rail installed in the piano. This device is fixed to the upright piano and consisted of 88 metal taps that are affixed to flexible leather straps that can be lowered by the player to fit between the hammers and the strings. When played it gives a Honky-Tonk sound to the piano but allows for a normal piano sound by lifting the rail out of the way of the hammers.
Check it out >>> Mandolin Rail
One of the most sought after and celebrated pianos in modern times is the Steinway B grand piano at studio 3, Western Studios in Hollywood. Thousands of hit songs have used this piano. To look at it you would think it distend for the junk yard. The finish is scratched up and there are cigarette burns all around the keys where players have left their cigarettes to burn while on a take. ![]() ![]()  Everyone likes this well-used piano because it can always be heard over other sounds in a mix. This is because the hammers have been hardened. To do this permanent treatment, one carefully "paints" the tip of each hammer with a liquid solution of shellac dissolved in alcohol, called lacquer. Depending on how many times you paint each hammer, the piano makes a little spick before the string sounds. (like chiff, in the sounding of an unnicked organ pipe) that directs the "ear" to that sound, making the piano sound come through complex mixes without upsetting the dynamics of each note.
In the house studio where we had two concert grand pianos -- side by side -- I have often placed a stick between the sustain pedal and the bottom of the keyboard to hold the sustain that may obtain. Thus, while one piano is played, the other is allowed to sympatholyticly vibrate, giving a "glow" to the sound. I have also recorded electric guitar sounds by depressing the sustain pedal with a stick, while placing a guitar amp under the piano facing up, then placing microphones above the piano harp. This produces a very different sounding type of reverb. I used this technique once for an album I recorded for Charles Lloyd. In that case two upright pianos were positioned with their backs facing each other and separated by several feet, with both piano's sustain pedals depressed. The player (Charles) would sit between the two pianos and play his flute. The result has to be heard, but very complimentary to a flute sound without using excessive reverberation. ~swd |
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Post by filledeplage on Sept 25, 2022 9:07:05 GMT -5
COMMENT: I'm certain many engineers have played around with piano modifications from time to time, including me. It's just that we didn't have a video running while we experimented.
To give a staccato sound to the piano, place masking tape across the strings of a concert piano. This stops the sympathetic vibration usually produced by the un-taped strings (normal operation) and is useful to get the piano to "cut" through a complex mixture of sounds in a mix. Done it often for Brian.
Any upright Piano can be converted to a Tack Piano by simply pushing 88 thumbtacks into place where each hammer hits the string. So-called Tack Pianos used by the Beach Boys usually had a Mandolin Rail installed in the piano. This device is fixed to the upright piano and consisted of 88 metal taps that are affixed to flexible leather straps that can be lowered by the player to fit between the hammers and the strings. When played it gives a Honky-Tonk sound to the piano but allows for a normal piano sound by lifting the rail out of the way of the hammers.
Check it out >>> Mandolin Rail
One of the most sought after and celebrated pianos in modern times is the Steinway B grand piano at studio 3, Western Studios in Hollywood. Thousands of hit songs have used this piano. To look at it you would think it distend for the junk yard. The finish is scratched up and there are cigarette burns all around the keys where players have left their cigarettes to burn while on a take. ![]() ![]() Everyone likes this well-used piano because it can always be heard over other sounds in a mix. This is because the hammers have been hardened. To do this permanent treatment, one carefully "paints" the tip of each hammer with a liquid solution of shellac dissolved in alcohol, called lacquer. Depending on how many times you paint each hammer, the piano makes a little spick before the string sounds. (like chiff, in the sounding of an unnicked organ pipe) that directs the "ear" to that sound, making the piano sound come through complex mixes without upsetting the dynamics of each note.
In the house studio where we had two concert grand pianos -- side by side -- I have often placed a stick between the sustain pedal and the bottom of the keyboard to hold the sustain that may obtain. Thus, while one piano is played, the other is allowed to sympatholyticly vibrate, giving a "glow" to the sound. I have also recorded electric guitar sounds by depressing the sustain pedal with a stick, while placing a guitar amp under the piano facing up, then placing microphones above the piano harp. This produces a very different sounding type of reverb. I used this technique once for an album I recorded for Charles Lloyd. In that case two upright pianos were positioned with their backs facing each other and separated by several feet, with both piano's sustain pedals depressed. The player (Charles) would sit between the two pianos and play his flute. The result has to be heard, but very complimentary to a flute sound without using excessive reverberation. ~swd Is this the kind of effect of a tack piano? This looks like what they call a Melodigrand - or club car piano - 5 octaves? This one that Daryl Dragon is on where he seems to pull out and shake the keyboard when it seems to gets stuck? Did the band travel with this piano that Daryl is playing? Thanks! |
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Post by boogieboarder on Sept 25, 2022 9:52:39 GMT -5
“Walking in the Sand” opens with seagull sounds.
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Post by Micha on Sept 25, 2022 11:17:56 GMT -5
Liquid being poured into a glass on "Vegetables".
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