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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 23, 2022 21:26:52 GMT -5
Not defending anyone over there, but suggesting Brian is controlled against his will by his handlers is not gonna go over well at SS, so it’s a head scratcher to even wanna try it. That said: don’t pretty much all rock stars have handlers who run/manage their lives? Don’t most if not all famous people have them to some extent? The term “handlers” alone seems to be what they’re mainly reacting too, which is weird.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 23, 2022 21:47:32 GMT -5
Not defending anyone over there, but suggesting Brian is controlled against his will by his handlers is not gonna go over well at SS, so it’s a head scratcher to even wanna try it. That said: don’t pretty much all rock stars have handlers who run/manage their lives? Don’t most if not all famous people have them to some extent? The term “handlers” alone seems to be what they’re mainly reacting too, which is weird. If Beach Boys fans aren’t used to that kind of vernacular by now… I think that the big term used over there around the C50 time frame was “Wife&Managers”. While Brian is not controlled, he is being managed and taken care of on the road. It is why people like Jean were hired. Most professionals have managers running their day to day activities and routines and to keep them on schedule.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 23, 2022 22:01:05 GMT -5
Not defending anyone over there, but suggesting Brian is controlled against his will by his handlers is not gonna go over well at SS, so it’s a head scratcher to even wanna try it. That said: don’t pretty much all rock stars have handlers who run/manage their lives? Don’t most if not all famous people have them to some extent? The term “handlers” alone seems to be what they’re mainly reacting too, which is weird. If Beach Boys fans aren’t used to that kind of vernacular by now… I think that the big term used over there around the C50 time frame was “Wife&Managers”. While Brian is not controlled, he is being managed and taken care of on the road. It is why people like Jean were hired. Most professionals have managers running their day to day activities and routines and to keep them on schedule. Agreed. And it’s strange that it’s ok to suggest that his own family and OG bandmates were taking advantage of him against his will back in the 60’s and 70’s when he was still highly engaged (if erratically) but if such a thing is even suggested with the current situation: it’s bloodshed.
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Post by ironhorseapples on Jun 24, 2022 3:43:22 GMT -5
It's a minority of people on both boards who keep firing shots at each other. That's not a criticism of anyone here or there, just a fact.
The majority of people on both boards just want to talk about the band they love in a place they feel relaxed and safe. It's true when I first migrated over here I did feel some ill will, but not anymore. Life's too short, bygones etc.
If it is true that everyone over at SS loves the new set, (and that's a big if), then I'm genuinely happy for them. All I hear are the mistakes though, which are definitely there and have been demonstrated. Everyone listens differently,
What I take exception to, (and this happens on both boards), is when those of us with a negative view are painted as rabid, ungrateful and wrong, when we're simply a different type of listener. Brian Wilson's music is one of those rare phenomena which seems to engender both logical and emotional listening. I just happen to be way over on the analytical side of that spectrum. I don't like the liberties that are being taken with his music and I'm fiercely protective of it.
As for the debate about Brian's feelings about touring, I don't know if anyone can guess what is going on in his head. When I see him staring into space, I like to imagine he's pondering deep thoughts which are way beyond the understanding of us mere mortals. He's always surrounded by people who love him, that much is indisputable. That debate between Rab and Awesomeman just demonstrates how protective they both feel about him. Brian is unique, precious, beautiful and damaged. But he's also one tough son of a bitch.
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Post by AGD on Jun 24, 2022 4:25:33 GMT -5
Not defending anyone over there, but suggesting Brian is controlled against his will by his handlers is not gonna go over well at SS, so it’s a head scratcher to even wanna try it. That said: don’t pretty much all rock stars have handlers who run/manage their lives? Don’t most if not all famous people have them to some extent? The term “handlers” alone seems to be what they’re mainly reacting too, which is weird. If Beach Boys fans aren’t used to that kind of vernacular by now… I think that the big term used over there around the C50 time frame was “Wife&Managers”. While Brian is not controlled, he is being managed and taken care of on the road. It is why people like Jean were hired. Most professionals have managers running their day to day activities and routines and to keep them on schedule. Iffn Brian really doesn't want to do something, then he won't: he'll either flat-out say no, or sabotage it in some way, but for the majority of the time, he'll just go along to keep the peace, because that's he kind of guy he is (this from someone who knows him way better than any of us on the boards). He wants everyone around him to be happy, even if it's at the expense of his own comfort, and that takes a toll. He's said before that he enjoys everything about touring except performing, and you can understand that. Everything's arranged, you just have to be at Place A for Time B, and you've even someone to see to that for you. The "wivesandmanagers" epithet did indeed arise during C50, allegedly because of the warring factions behind the scenes.
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Post by EST583JRX on Jun 24, 2022 15:21:32 GMT -5
I'd join in, but I think a text-based Q and A would work better. The one with Brian they had over at Smiley some years back worked really well as the questions were vetted in advance. Such a formula would ensure no personal attacks, and all questions and replies can be considered and reasonable. This was tried a year or two ago. IIRC it was a disaster. Either Mark and Alan were not into the idea, or they were too technically illiterate to even see the questions they were being asked. It was strangely poetic. Like watching a modern Brian interview.
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Post by aaronsamazing on Jun 24, 2022 15:46:06 GMT -5
I don’t know why analogue hiss is a common criticism point for SOS ‘22. Didn’t the old twofer CDs use noise reduction but no one complained?
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Post by AGD on Jun 24, 2022 15:53:28 GMT -5
I don’t know why analogue hiss is a common criticism point for SOS ‘22. Didn’t the old twofer CDs use noise reduction but no one complained?Iffn I recall correctly, they used the NoNoise process and everybody complained.
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Post by Mikie on Jun 24, 2022 16:39:05 GMT -5
I'd join in, but I think a text-based Q and A would work better. The one with Brian they had over at Smiley some years back worked really well as the questions were vetted in advance. Such a formula would ensure no personal attacks, and all questions and replies can be considered and reasonable. This was tried a year or two ago. IIRC it was a disaster. Either Mark and Alan were not into the idea, or they were too technically illiterate to even see the questions they were being asked. It was strangely poetic. Like watching a modern Brian interview. Agreed. Questions and accolades landed one after the other in quick succession, and only hand-selected basic ones were answered. Good questions seemed to have been ignored. The Q&A was staged.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 24, 2022 19:33:07 GMT -5
I don’t know why analogue hiss is a common criticism point for SOS ‘22. Didn’t the old twofer CDs use noise reduction but no one complained? it’s nothing to do with actual analog hiss. Hiss is fine when it’s obviously just a small thing clearly baked into the original recording. What we have here is hiss thats being digitally amplified by putting everything through some type of digital compression/treble boost, making it extremely noticeable and annoying. It’s especially noticeable when something louder than everything else enters into a mix, like a lead vocal. Baby Blue being the best example, there’s just a huge pump of hiss when the lead vocal comes in because it’s trying to be louder than everything else. And then as soon as the lead vocal ends, there’s a harsh digital cut off where it just disappears, and then comes back, and then disappears. No noise isn’t good in the slightest, and no one is suggesting that they need to go back to doing anything like that.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 24, 2022 19:36:00 GMT -5
I don’t know why analogue hiss is a common criticism point for SOS ‘22. Didn’t the old twofer CDs use noise reduction but no one complained? it’s nothing to do with actual analog hiss. Hiss is fine when it’s obviously just a small thing clearly baked into the original recording. What we have here is hiss thats being digitally amplified by putting everything through some type of digital compression/treble boost, making it extremely noticeable and annoying. It’s especially noticeable when something louder than everything else enters into a mix, like a lead vocal. Baby Blue being the best example, there’s just a huge pump of hiss when the lead vocal comes in because it’s trying to be louder than everything else. And then as soon as the lead vocal ends, there’s a harsh digital cut off where it just disappears, and then comes back, and then disappears. No noise isn’t good in the slightest, and no one is suggesting that they need to go back to doing anything like that. Today I also noticed that the beginning of Carl’s opening lines on BB are clipped here and there by what sounds like someone with clumsy fingers on the faders (trying to keep the hiss at bay?)
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 25, 2022 1:53:57 GMT -5
it’s nothing to do with actual analog hiss. Hiss is fine when it’s obviously just a small thing clearly baked into the original recording. What we have here is hiss thats being digitally amplified by putting everything through some type of digital compression/treble boost, making it extremely noticeable and annoying. It’s especially noticeable when something louder than everything else enters into a mix, like a lead vocal. Baby Blue being the best example, there’s just a huge pump of hiss when the lead vocal comes in because it’s trying to be louder than everything else. And then as soon as the lead vocal ends, there’s a harsh digital cut off where it just disappears, and then comes back, and then disappears. No noise isn’t good in the slightest, and no one is suggesting that they need to go back to doing anything like that. Today I also noticed that the beginning of Carl’s opening lines on BB are clipped here and there by what sounds like someone with clumsy fingers on the faders (trying to keep the hiss at bay?) This definitive version just gets better with every new listen... Why Dennis never thought to incorporate all these mistakes into the original is beyond me.
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Post by mikedonn on Jun 25, 2022 6:50:11 GMT -5
A few more random thoughts...
Donny L made a good point over at Smiley. A lot of people nowadays, including 23 year olds, listen through a smart speaker, or phone. So I had a listen to the new stereo I Get Around. It sounded poor, very muffled. The original mono sounded way better on it. The new Surfin' Safari sounded better!
I've gone back and been listening to 50 Big Ones in recent days in the car. Those mixes including 'new' Stereo, sound good, better than the most recent attempts.
Made in California was the beginning of the tinkering with digital reverbs in leads etc, when there is no need for it.
I'm 48, I was 14 when I first got 'hooked' on the Beach Boys. FM radio was new to me and the new music I listened to was stereo. And yet, I loved the Beach Boys. Mono, Chuck Britz stereo and all! The music sounds great fullstop.
I enjoy new stereo remixes (some of them are fab and sound 'vintage', Pet Sounds Box, new Smile mixes, Wild Honey, Today tracks etc) but don't agree on some of the liberties being taken with some of the songs. They should resist applying 'modern' reverb on the new CATP Box. Some of the backing vocals they have brought up in some songs were mixed low or out originally for a reason. If they want to make songs rock more, what's to stop them isolating guitars and adding digital distortion etc? How can they want more drums and bass but Surfer Girl now has less? Incidentally, I like the clarity of the bass lines on new mixes of some of those early songs. Brian actually didn't use drums conventially in the 60s a lot of the time. The most rocking versions of Marcella are the live ones. In that era, all their live stuff was heavier, and sounds great.
Lastly, nobody should be called out for having a respectful opinion. People pay their money and are loyal fans. Their opinions are valid.
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B.E.
Kahuna
Posts: 179
Likes: 131
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Post by B.E. on Jun 25, 2022 7:19:20 GMT -5
I've gone back and been listening to 50 Big Ones in recent days in the car. Those mixes including 'new' Stereo, sound good, better than the most recent attempts. I've been curious about that. For those being (highly) critical of the new set, what did/do you think of 50 Big Ones?
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Post by ohm on Jun 25, 2022 8:12:59 GMT -5
First impressions for me, having only dipped in and out so far, are pretty good. Much better than expected, based on all of the negativity around this set. Definitely a few curious elements and decisions here and there, but I think perhaps the issue is putting this stuff out as part of a mainstream 'Best Of' package. If it had been presented as an experimental, work-in-progress, state of the art as it exists today type release, perhaps just a single disc of the best 2021 mixes (which is ultimately what I'll end up burrning for myself for the car, as I did with 2CDs of 'Feel Flows' stuff), I think it would've been received much more positively. And I look forward to the technology improving and enabling revisions and improvements over the years.
If nothing else, the first 20 seconds of the new 'In My Room' made me happy enough on first listen yesterday to warrant the £15 I paid for the set.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 25, 2022 8:14:48 GMT -5
Made in California was the beginning of the tinkering with digital reverbs in leads etc, when there is no need for it. It drives me mad when they add reverb/echo to lead vocals for seemingly no real reason. It never makes it sound better. On Made in California, Blondie's lead on Wild Honey (Live) and Brian's lead on Sherry She Needs Me would sound much better minus the echo. Thankfully, there were only a few isolated incidents on that set, but it's something that happens over and over again on Feel Flows, just in case the compression/treble wasn't itself proving too distracting.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 25, 2022 9:01:03 GMT -5
50 Big Ones and MIC were fine. A little bright but not ear piercingly so. And the new mixes and previously Unreleased material on those ranged from good to great. Same for basically everything from 1993-2018
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 25, 2022 9:34:10 GMT -5
50 Big Ones and MIC were fine. A little bright but not ear piercingly so. And the new mixes and previously Unreleased material on those ranged from good to great. Same for basically everything from 1993-2018 Agreed. Feel Flows and Sounds of Summer are the only occasions in almost three decades of Beach Boys fandom that I've bought a release and disliked the audio quality (or lack of quality).
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 25, 2022 13:44:20 GMT -5
This just in: I like the new Baby Blue mix. I like the more prominent harp and the fact that the backing vocals are now in stereo as opposed to mono in the CV (thank you Mixology podcast and fjfp for pointing this out). Shame they treated everything with an ungodly amount of compression though. It coulda been ”definitive” (maybe)!
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jun 25, 2022 16:54:53 GMT -5
I've gone back and been listening to 50 Big Ones in recent days in the car. Those mixes including 'new' Stereo, sound good, better than the most recent attempts. I've been curious about that. For those being (highly) critical of the new set, what did/do you think of 50 Big Ones? Well, I didn't buy 50 Big Ones. I didn't feel the need. I did buy the comps with the new at the time stereo mixes. I didn't buy the 2012 Shows Cd. Never tried to even listen due to the reviews I read. I did get the Blu-ray of the bits-of-shows and enjoy it. Have all of the box-sets. If they want me to buy it, then it has to have something new and interesting. Me not buying into the 2012 live Cd shows that bad reviews can have an effect on the customer. It's not necessarily auto-tune I mind, if done tastefully. I love No Pier Pressure regardless of the complaints. I have the 3-Cd set and played it last Saturday on my headset. Most of it sounded okay. A different way to hear music I've heard hundreds of times. I know it well and know how it should sound. Been listening to The Beached Boys since 1963. I'm 70 but still have good ears. Tonight, I am going to try to get through the whole set blasting through the floor-standing speakers and my big system. I'm hoping for the best.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 26, 2022 5:54:20 GMT -5
Do you wanna dance is clearly unlistenable and... where is the hight voice in the end?
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 26, 2022 8:46:39 GMT -5
Do you wanna dance is clearly unlistenable and... where is the hight voice in the end? Wait, what… ”Unlistenable”? Is this really you, mustomax? 😨 PS. Have you tried listening to it in Atmos?
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 26, 2022 9:21:22 GMT -5
With the help of some of the pros, here, I’m learning a little. What I have is an old computer set-up Harmon Kardon 395 - 2.1 - 2 satellites and a subwoofer. Had the visualizer version of something on YouTube so it is coming through their configuration - and it sounded great to me.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 26, 2022 9:28:09 GMT -5
...
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Post by mustomax on Jun 26, 2022 9:30:03 GMT -5
Do you wanna dance is clearly unlistenable and... where is the hight voice in the end? Wait, what… ”Unlistenable”? Is this really you, mustomax? 😨 PS. Have you tried listening to it in Atmos? Ha ha ha!
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