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Post by lonesurf on Jun 27, 2022 14:29:06 GMT -5
To further bolster Cam’s curmudgeony point (lol), this is anecdotal, but I had two of my younger employees recently ask me if the new collection had California Dreamin’ on it, as both were going to buy it as a gift for Father’s Day. Both had become aware of The Beach Boys version via Stranger Things. Both were disappointed that it wasn’t included on the new set.
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Post by Paul JB on Jun 27, 2022 21:04:31 GMT -5
Is it just me or does the current popularity of the Boys' California Dreamin' kind of give the finger to Boomer/GenX notions/delusions of what youth these days think is "cool"? (creakily hand cranks back up the side glass of his 1969 AMC Ambassador) I still don’t have time to ramble on and comment more on all this drama, but once again Cam, your crack about the 1969 AMC I could not ignore… keep the visuals coming! More to your point I totally agree. My teenage Daughter and her friends love Stranger Things and that song was recorded by the boys in the uncool years as it were, yet it’s caught on with a new audience. A certain promoter mentioned the beards as something he wanted people to see and associate with cool… distancing the BB’s from the stripped shirts. Endless Summer artwork ring a bell? That was my introduction to this band in 1974 and the cool hairy guys singing I Get Around were not out of place in the least. I don’t think us older guys can decide what will make younger people gravitate towards something based on image’s. The artwork itself (in the case the BB’s music) will catch on or it won’t. But we all know it will because it did in 1974.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 27, 2022 23:56:12 GMT -5
That's some very poor forecasting on their behalf. Not including 'California Dreamin' on this set, you may as well grab a hammer and start hitting yourself in the head. Why would they not include that when it's in the ever popular, just released! 'Stranger Things'? Furthermore, they could have helped the sale of this set and put one of those nice 'advertising' stickers on the front of the collection advertising the fact. It shouldn't take a degree in Marketing to have worked that one out.
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Post by esqeditor on Jun 28, 2022 0:44:22 GMT -5
Part of me is inclined to agree. I wrote in my ESQ Overview in the summer edition that I thought “Rock ’n’ Roll To The Rescue,” “California Dreamin’,” “Still Cruisin’,” “Island Girl,” “Somewhere Near Japan,” “Strange Things Happen,” “Lahaina Aloha,” “That’s Why God Made The Radio,” “Isn’t It Time,” and “From There To Back Again” should have been on the expanded set. There's no way that's realistic, and I'm sure I'm in the minority when it comes to recordings from Summer In Paradise, but those are songs that I enjoy.
If you broke it down to 'single releases', then “Rock ’n’ Roll To The Rescue,” “California Dreamin’,” “Still Cruisin’,” “Somewhere Near Japan,” “Hot Fun In The Summertime,” “That’s Why God Made The Radio,” and “Isn’t It Time” are all candidates. "Kokomo" is already there.
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Post by Custom Machine on Jun 28, 2022 1:49:01 GMT -5
Am I misremembering, or is the second side of the sixth album blank ? On the six LP edition of SoS, the second side of disc six (side L) has a etching of the BB's logo: The "limited pressing" is 6500 copies:
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Post by esqeditor on Jun 28, 2022 1:58:45 GMT -5
UPDATE —
I've traded text messages with Alan Boyd. He is considering doing the Zoom I suggested. I'm not going to push him. With a lot of the recent posts I've read I'm a bit concerned at the treatment he might receive. I'm glad to be present on this forum, and I too had a few interesting interactions with those on the Smiley Smile message board in years past, but at the end of the day we're all just fans. Right? I think Howie's response about this forum lacked commerce, but it was the result of a man being part of a team that put his heart and soul into a project/product and getting upset. There was a lot of criticism about the Sounds Of Summer collection. I can tell you from having produced the California Music Presents Add Some Music collection and the "Add Some Music To Your Day" recording, it sank my heart every time someone asked "Where was Brian Wilson?" It was a fair question. I've publicly gone on record multiple times stating he was asked but he just wasn't doing 'anything' at the time of the project. Part of me wishes I had waited for 'whenever' he was going to be active again, and the other part of me is satisfied with the accomplishment. It was no easy task. The video for the song that I personally directed is my love letter to Brian. That's why Dennis and Carl are included. That addition happened because Alan Boyd made it possible. Alan and Jerry Schilling. Team work. The same can be said for Rob Bonfiglio … an amazing human being and musician extraordinaire. Nonetheless, when we started doing press, every time someone asked that 'very fair' question about Brian's absence or wrote that he wasn't a part of the project it took a personal toll. There were times when I was angry, upset, frustrated, etc., but I never lashed out at anyone that complained, etc., so that's why I was surprised when someone of Howie's stature wrote what he did about this forum. My point in all this is Howie is part of a team that worked very hard to produce something they all believed was very special. So, if you have a gripe about the collection (albeit mixes, song selection, etc.) that's fine, but a lot of the comments were and have been rooted in sarcasm, belittlement of others, etc., and I don't know about you but the joy of the music is where it's at for me. Pure and simple.
So, I would love to schedule a Zoom with Alan Boyd where he can take us behind the scenes and tell us about the formation of the set, song selection, mixes, etc., but in order for that to happen we would really have to dial back the temperature of this thread and the overall forum. [It isn't the vibe of the place when I initially joined.] First off, take stock in that fact that we have people like Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Howie Edelson, and the teams at Iconic Artists Group and Universal Music releasing these COOL box sets. And no, this isn't some kind of 'kiss ass' attempt and making them feel good for their hard work — although they deserve it — it's my way of asking each of us to place value in each other (including them). It's okay to have differing opinions, and if someone once 'kicked you off their message board' — so what? Did the music stop? Treat one another like you would treat your best friend. Agree to disagree, etc. Be present with one another. If you stay 'in the moment,' then what someone did to you in the past holds no relevance. It's now that matters. All we have is today.
I am here on this board because I love The Beach Boys, their music, and every little nuanced wrinkle of their history. Even the stuff that makes me wince. Granted, that stuff isn't that interesting to me because the music prevails. So, instead of elevating our opinions OVER one another let's try helping each other improve the vibe by finding equal footing. I'll be fully transparent. I don't like Howie's approach to The Beach Boys history, it worries me a bit because I think's it's reckless. But I LOVE that someone in 'that' position cares as much as Howie does. That has great VALUE. Don't overlook it. It's the same with David Leaf and myself … I love David, and consider him a dear and sincere man, and we have shared many very personal off-the-record phone conversations, but we often disagree on the group's history. Some of our relationship played itself out in our interview in the summer ESQ. So, although I don't personally see eye to eye or get along with Howie, I still love the guy for his passion and deep appreciation of The Beach Boys. That comes first. And with it … respect. There is one other thing I love about Howie … he is a GREAT dad!
Listen … I'm human. I've made plenty of mistakes, but at 57 it would really do my heart good if we all respectfully picked one another's brains and conversed about our favorite group in a 'non combative manner'. I'm grateful that you are all here so I can go to a place where a bunch of 'Beach Boys nerds' can hang out, etc. It also needs to be said (IMO) that there is a lot of stuff going in the world right now that is directly influencing each and every one of us differently. These past few years have been weird and emotionally tough on me … stage 4 cancer in 2019 … a splenectomy in 2020 … so keep it in mind that someone here might be struggling in some way and comes here to vent or express a grievance about a mix, etc., but a 'forum' is a platform for support. We are all basically supporting one another's interest and that's VERY cool.
At the end of the day I'm just one guy. The Beach Boys have billions (trillions?) of fans worldwide and the truth is the forum is just a small fraction of the fans. I think that makes the forum that much more invaluable. Let's make this forum a meaningful platform of focused interaction that's rooted in respect. Hopefully the kindness will follow. Think of it like notes of a melody falling together … that's us, and it's everyone at any message board, or fan anywhere in the world. I have a lot going on in my life at the moment, but if I'm granted the opportunity to grow to know all of you a bit better over the years I know I'll be grateful. For me, this is a time for unity. I promise I will be present and focused when writing on this board and will continue to do my due diligence to produce a meaningful product with ESQ.
As for the Zoom? It's up to us. Let's steer the ship in the right direction.
In Music - David
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 28, 2022 4:08:36 GMT -5
UPDATE — I've traded text messages with Alan Boyd. He is considering doing the Zoom I suggested. I'm not going to push him. With a lot of the recent posts I've read I'm a bit concerned at the treatment he might receive. I'm glad to be present on this forum, and I too had a few interesting interactions with those on the Smiley Smile message board in years past, but at the end of the day we're all just fans. Right? I think Howie's response about this forum lacked commerce, but it was the result of a man being part of a team that put his heart and soul into a project/product and getting upset. There was a lot of criticism about the Sounds Of Summer collection. I can tell you from having produced the California Music Presents Add Some Music collection and the "Add Some Music To Your Day" recording, it sank my heart every time someone asked "Where was Brian Wilson?" It was a fair question. I've publicly gone on record multiple times stating he was asked but he just wasn't doing 'anything' at the time of the project. Part of me wishes I had waited for 'whenever' he was going to be active again, and the other part of me is satisfied with the accomplishment. It was no easy task. The video for the song that I personally directed is my love letter to Brian. That's why Dennis and Carl are included. That addition happened because Alan Boyd made it possible. Alan and Jerry Schilling. Team work. The same can be said for Rob Bonfiglio … an amazing human being and musician extraordinaire. Nonetheless, when we started doing press, every time someone asked that 'very fair' question about Brian's absence or wrote that he wasn't a part of the project it took a personal toll. There were times when I was angry, upset, frustrated, etc., but I never lashed out at anyone that complained, etc., so that's why I was surprised when someone of Howie's stature wrote what he did about this forum. My point in all this is Howie is part of a team that worked very hard to produce something they all believed was very special. So, if you have a gripe about the collection (albeit mixes, song selection, etc.) that's fine, but a lot of the comments were and have been rooted in sarcasm, belittlement of others, etc., and I don't know about you but the joy of the music is where it's at for me. Pure and simple. So, I would love to schedule a Zoom with Alan Boyd where he can take us behind the scenes and tell us about the formation of the set, song selection, mixes, etc., but in order for that to happen we would really have to dial back the temperature of this thread and the overall forum. [It isn't the vibe of the place when I initially joined.] First off, take stock in that fact that we have people like Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Howie Edelson, and the teams at Iconic Artists Group and Universal Music releasing these COOL box sets. And no, this isn't some kind of 'kiss ass' attempt and making them feel good for their hard work — although they deserve it — it's my way of asking each of us to place value in each other (including them). It's okay to have differing opinions, and if someone once 'kicked you off their message board' — so what? Did the music stop? Treat one another like you would treat your best friend. Agree to disagree, etc. Be present with one another. If you stay 'in the moment,' then what someone did to you in the past holds no relevance. It's now that matters. All we have is today. I am here on this board because I love The Beach Boys, their music, and every little nuanced wrinkle of their history. Even the stuff that makes me wince. Granted, that stuff isn't that interesting to me because the music prevails. So, instead of elevating our opinions OVER one another let's try helping each other improve the vibe by finding equal footing. I'll be fully transparent. I don't like Howie's approach to The Beach Boys history, it worries me a bit because I think's it's reckless. But I LOVE that someone in 'that' position cares as much as Howie does. That has great VALUE. Don't overlook it. It's the same with David Leaf and myself … I love David, and consider him a dear and sincere man, and we have shared many very personal off-the-record phone conversations, but we often disagree on the group's history. Some of our relationship played itself out in our interview in the summer ESQ. So, although I don't personally see eye to eye or get along with Howie, I still love the guy for his passion and deep appreciation of The Beach Boys. That comes first. And with it … respect. There is one other thing I love about Howie … he is a GREAT dad! Listen … I'm human. I've made plenty of mistakes, but at 57 it would really do my heart good if we all respectfully picked one another's brains and conversed about our favorite group in a 'non combative manner'. I'm grateful that you are all here so I can go to a place where a bunch of 'Beach Boys nerds' can hang out, etc. It also needs to be said (IMO) that there is a lot of stuff going in the world right now that is directly influencing each and every one of us differently. These past few years have been weird and emotionally tough on me … stage 4 cancer in 2019 … a splenectomy in 2020 … so keep it in mind that someone here might be struggling in some way and comes here to vent or express a grievance about a mix, etc., but a 'forum' is a platform for support. We are all basically supporting one another's interest and that's VERY cool. At the end of the day I'm just one guy. The Beach Boys have billions (trillions?) of fans worldwide and the truth is the forum is just a small fraction of the fans. I think that makes the forum that much more invaluable. Let's make this forum a meaningful platform of focused interaction that's rooted in respect. Hopefully the kindness will follow. Think of it like notes of a melody falling together … that's us, and it's everyone at any message board, or fan anywhere in the world. I have a lot going on in my life at the moment, but if I'm granted the opportunity to grow to know all of you a bit better over the years I know I'll be grateful. For me, this is a time for unity. I promise I will be present and focused when writing on this board and will continue to do my due diligence to produce a meaningful product with ESQ. As for the Zoom? It's up to us. Let's steer the ship in the right direction. In Music - David The only questions I currently have any interest in asking Mark and Alan are: "Why have you suddenly started piling on the compression and treble, as per Feel Flows and Sound of Summer? And are you going to continue doing it with future releases or will you be returning to the superior audio quality of your previous archive releases?" I'm not sure if that's too disrespectful, but I'm afraid it's by far my most pressing concern at present regarding Beach Boys releases. A single listen to Sunflower on Feel Flows or Surfin' Safari on Sounds of Summer and I'm immediately reminded of the importance of raising such concerns. If Carl and Dennis and co had wanted their music smothered in compression and treble, they would have done so, and so I genuinely want to know why this is now being done, and I want to be able to object if we're given answers like "young people like this sound". If we aren't allowed to ask such things then, quite frankly, I'd probably give it a miss. Much as I have enormous respect and gratitude for Mark and Alan and all they have given us over the decades, and much as I think people should be polite and courteous, I don't really see the point in a chat where we aren't allowed to ask tough questions and raise our (very legitimate) concerns.
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 28, 2022 4:36:37 GMT -5
UPDATE — I've traded text messages with Alan Boyd. He is considering doing the Zoom I suggested. I'm not going to push him. With a lot of the recent posts I've read I'm a bit concerned at the treatment he might receive. I'm glad to be present on this forum, and I too had a few interesting interactions with those on the Smiley Smile message board in years past, but at the end of the day we're all just fans. Right? I think Howie's response about this forum lacked commerce, but it was the result of a man being part of a team that put his heart and soul into a project/product and getting upset. There was a lot of criticism about the Sounds Of Summer collection. I can tell you from having produced the California Music Presents Add Some Music collection and the "Add Some Music To Your Day" recording, it sank my heart every time someone asked "Where was Brian Wilson?" It was a fair question. I've publicly gone on record multiple times stating he was asked but he just wasn't doing 'anything' at the time of the project. Part of me wishes I had waited for 'whenever' he was going to be active again, and the other part of me is satisfied with the accomplishment. It was no easy task. The video for the song that I personally directed is my love letter to Brian. That's why Dennis and Carl are included. That addition happened because Alan Boyd made it possible. Alan and Jerry Schilling. Team work. The same can be said for Rob Bonfiglio … an amazing human being and musician extraordinaire. Nonetheless, when we started doing press, every time someone asked that 'very fair' question about Brian's absence or wrote that he wasn't a part of the project it took a personal toll. There were times when I was angry, upset, frustrated, etc., but I never lashed out at anyone that complained, etc., so that's why I was surprised when someone of Howie's stature wrote what he did about this forum. My point in all this is Howie is part of a team that worked very hard to produce something they all believed was very special. So, if you have a gripe about the collection (albeit mixes, song selection, etc.) that's fine, but a lot of the comments were and have been rooted in sarcasm, belittlement of others, etc., and I don't know about you but the joy of the music is where it's at for me. Pure and simple. So, I would love to schedule a Zoom with Alan Boyd where he can take us behind the scenes and tell us about the formation of the set, song selection, mixes, etc., but in order for that to happen we would really have to dial back the temperature of this thread and the overall forum. [It isn't the vibe of the place when I initially joined.] First off, take stock in that fact that we have people like Alan Boyd, Mark Linett, Howie Edelson, and the teams at Iconic Artists Group and Universal Music releasing these COOL box sets. And no, this isn't some kind of 'kiss ass' attempt and making them feel good for their hard work — although they deserve it — it's my way of asking each of us to place value in each other (including them). It's okay to have differing opinions, and if someone once 'kicked you off their message board' — so what? Did the music stop? Treat one another like you would treat your best friend. Agree to disagree, etc. Be present with one another. If you stay 'in the moment,' then what someone did to you in the past holds no relevance. It's now that matters. All we have is today. I am here on this board because I love The Beach Boys, their music, and every little nuanced wrinkle of their history. Even the stuff that makes me wince. Granted, that stuff isn't that interesting to me because the music prevails. So, instead of elevating our opinions OVER one another let's try helping each other improve the vibe by finding equal footing. I'll be fully transparent. I don't like Howie's approach to The Beach Boys history, it worries me a bit because I think's it's reckless. But I LOVE that someone in 'that' position cares as much as Howie does. That has great VALUE. Don't overlook it. It's the same with David Leaf and myself … I love David, and consider him a dear and sincere man, and we have shared many very personal off-the-record phone conversations, but we often disagree on the group's history. Some of our relationship played itself out in our interview in the summer ESQ. So, although I don't personally see eye to eye or get along with Howie, I still love the guy for his passion and deep appreciation of The Beach Boys. That comes first. And with it … respect. There is one other thing I love about Howie … he is a GREAT dad! Listen … I'm human. I've made plenty of mistakes, but at 57 it would really do my heart good if we all respectfully picked one another's brains and conversed about our favorite group in a 'non combative manner'. I'm grateful that you are all here so I can go to a place where a bunch of 'Beach Boys nerds' can hang out, etc. It also needs to be said (IMO) that there is a lot of stuff going in the world right now that is directly influencing each and every one of us differently. These past few years have been weird and emotionally tough on me … stage 4 cancer in 2019 … a splenectomy in 2020 … so keep it in mind that someone here might be struggling in some way and comes here to vent or express a grievance about a mix, etc., but a 'forum' is a platform for support. We are all basically supporting one another's interest and that's VERY cool. At the end of the day I'm just one guy. The Beach Boys have billions (trillions?) of fans worldwide and the truth is the forum is just a small fraction of the fans. I think that makes the forum that much more invaluable. Let's make this forum a meaningful platform of focused interaction that's rooted in respect. Hopefully the kindness will follow. Think of it like notes of a melody falling together … that's us, and it's everyone at any message board, or fan anywhere in the world. I have a lot going on in my life at the moment, but if I'm granted the opportunity to grow to know all of you a bit better over the years I know I'll be grateful. For me, this is a time for unity. I promise I will be present and focused when writing on this board and will continue to do my due diligence to produce a meaningful product with ESQ. As for the Zoom? It's up to us. Let's steer the ship in the right direction. In Music - David That was a mic drop worthy post, David. I very much agree with what you’re saying. The Zoom idea is potentially a really cool idea and I hope it will come to fruition. We’re all adults (I suppose) and I’m sure we can get our point across without resorting to personal attacks or whatever. Personally I abhor video conferencing in every shape and form and will probably not be able to participate because of the time zone difference but I really hope this will happen. It would be interesting hearing Alan’s take on all this. My question to him would be something along the lines of: Many listeners dislike the excessive smiley face EQ and compression on recent projects like Feel Flows and Sounds Of Summer. I have never heard anyone complain about previous releases sounding too dull or too dynamic. Wouldn’t it be a win-win situation for ALL listeners with a return to the mixing and mastering choices of previous archival projects like the SMiLE Sessions and Sunshine Tomorrow? Bonus fitting words of wisdom from Murry taken from the Surfers Rule session: — Alright, David, you’re too trebled [is that even a word? I guess it is now!]. Sweeten it up. Don’t treble it so… uh, untreble it. Just sweeten it up a little.
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Post by E on Jun 28, 2022 4:46:22 GMT -5
It's a great idea, as long as people behave in a civil manner and don't keep repeating the same point ad infinitum
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Post by KenWorthing on Jun 28, 2022 5:14:42 GMT -5
One thing's for sure: What's done is done (re: Sounds of Summer). All we can ask for is that we raise our concerns and hope Mark and Alan: don't take offense .. take notes on those concerns .. act on those concerns for the forthcoming boxset.
My main concern is that with the 'set coming out in a few short months, the majority of work may already be done on it and it could be too late to re-do some songs (if they've followed the process on Sounds of Summer).
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 28, 2022 6:05:47 GMT -5
Thanks, David for that post. For me, it is about seeing this band, have its intellectual property and artistry protected, by copyright (for them) and, it is to hear what is in the trove that I haven’t heard because it was considered an outtake or deemed as commercially unfit to release. They should have had a few fans on the team. The tracks, from Slip on Through “third generation, take three” - blew-my-mind, and made me wonder what the heck was going on, and what else was there that we didn’t hear and would finally be getting that stuff released under the copyright issue. My issue has never been about HOW it was released, but, what was said about “re-writing history.” Copyright extension is what is opening the vaults. Not a new-and-improved Beach Boys for virtual reality. That is just a contradiction in terms. Virtually it is not reality. It is make-believe special effects, like holograms.
We don’t get to re-write history. We only get to correct-the-record, and with evidence. I was one of those 2nd gen fans, who saw this band, when there were very small crowds, (because they were under-promoted, in an incompetent fashion) or some hired-hack staff music writer had a financial bias that directly interfered with the ability to be objective, and on some level, it hurt us, as fans, for them, if that makes any sense. They told us we had no taste in music. We knew the reporting was distorted. Of course we had critical thinking skills.
Those harsh and mostly uninformed words in the newspaper, told us that we had no taste in music and that we were listening to the wrong band. (I knew I wasn’t and my gut instincts were correct) but something else was going on that I (we) could not control and the band could not control, despite their brave faces at a live show. The morning after, with their breakfast, they/we would read a bad review.
We defiantly went to see them anyway, and bought the releases. It was that whole Fred Vail dynamic in the US. Finally, “an insider” put into words what happened to the band, and to us. Finally, we had clarity and knew that our instincts were correct about what was going on the whole time. You have to go backwards sometimes, to go forward, and carefully examine what was going on in the music press and compare it to what went on in the European press, contemporaneously. Compare and contrast. It is 101 stuff. Smile-Hollandaise stuff. 😎
Today, it would be analogous to opposition research in politics to hurt your opponent. Lots of bad stuff was written about Brian, and it was written exactly because someone else or some other faction was “picking the winners” - and in order to do that - you have to disrespect and take down “your opposition” which is really someone’s monetary “competition.” Great artists are always easy targets. The bigger they are, they harder they fall.
That is a public relations issue, first, having absolutely nothing to do with the BB work, which is sacred ground and you treat it with that same type of respect, that Alan and Mark do. Second, is this Atmos technology, whole movie-house, surround-sound thing, which alleges to make the music “future proof.” It is the eye-roll when you were listening on an LP, when 8-track was out (because you couldn’t afford both, paying for tuition and an 8-track.) And, there is no getting around those brash remarks made by a media guy. As far as I am concerned, the music is still perfect, but what was written about it, should be corrected, just like a cold case, is re-opened, when new evidence becomes available, to correct-the-record. That is not Alan or Mark’s job.
If that is Howie’s job, to run that analysis, and correct the record, for posterity, not just slap a new technology label on a new streaming format, and hype that Atmos thing, like an 8-track in the late 60s, then he should be looking at all those reviews, good and bad. And it doesn’t even have to be mean spirited or controversial, just factual. When I would read a hatchet-job review about a great BB show, I had seen, that had a great audience response, I knew there had to be some bias, such as they were bigger Beatle fans, and writing a complimentary BB review, somehow compromised and offended that Beatles’ fan dynamic.
The press created perception. But, they did not create reality. And the band spent years on the road, in foreign lands, to try to outrun those perceptions and it worked! Touring saved them, because they could show the people, directly, with prima facie evidence, through their performances, that the press was wrong. The band became exiles, and that bad press did it, coupled with the non-promotion of their work. And, maybe it was passive-aggressive retaliation, if the record company got wind that the band was creating its own company, in that window of time. They were blackballed and everyone knows what that looks like. I’d like to see Howie help fix that. Because, even money, does not “make them whole” as is the legal standard. Atmos or some other shiny new thing, won’t fix that bad press to correct-the-record. It is why we have an op-ed page; in the press, to tell the other side of the story.
Thank God for Mark and Alan. And, your own reverence for the music. It undeniably seeps through your work. I loved your work on Add Some Music. It was tonic in the isolating desert of covid. Your work helped hope come through the internet. Brian didn’t even need to be physically there - Carnie did that A-OK at the close of the video. Brian, was there, alright, with his brothers. You can infer Brian’s approval. I would call that constructively present, and there exists such a column in a teacher’s attendance sheet. Fans do take attendance, but, if you can’t sense Brian’s overall influence, about harmony, you don’t really understand this band. It is what he taught them, and those studio musicians and peers in music.
Back to the 60s, everyone emulated them, but those bands that he influenced would never dare to say so, publicly, because the press would have crippled them as they tried to with the band. Now, they still tour, very successfully, so who was right? We already know the answer. Thanks, again for that post.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 28, 2022 6:40:59 GMT -5
Excellent post from David at ESQ, well said and written and food for thought.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 28, 2022 6:45:19 GMT -5
That's some very poor forecasting on their behalf. Not including 'California Dreamin' on this set, you may as well grab a hammer and start hitting yourself in the head. Why would they not include that when it's in the ever popular, just released! 'Stranger Things'? Furthermore, they could have helped the sale of this set and put one of those nice 'advertising' stickers on the front of the collection advertising the fact. It shouldn't take a degree in Marketing to have worked that one out.
Isn’t it too early to release California Dreamin’ for copyright extension? Isn’t it VH1-MTV vintage? 1986? This is like looking in the dairy case of the store. You look for expiration dates. CopEx is about expiration dates, not just for our listening pleasure. 😂
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 28, 2022 6:54:42 GMT -5
That's some very poor forecasting on their behalf. Not including 'California Dreamin' on this set, you may as well grab a hammer and start hitting yourself in the head. Why would they not include that when it's in the ever popular, just released! 'Stranger Things'? Furthermore, they could have helped the sale of this set and put one of those nice 'advertising' stickers on the front of the collection advertising the fact. It shouldn't take a degree in Marketing to have worked that one out.
Isn’t it too early to release California Dreamin’ for copyright extension? Isn’t it VH1-MTV vintage? 1986? This is like looking in the dairy case of the store. You look for expiration dates. CopEx is about expiration dates, not just for our listening pleasure. 😂 Ha! Yeah, that it is. Still considering, it's a 'very best of' collection also, and Kokomo is included, and with a hit TV show currently going with 'the kids', I thought 'California Dreamin' would be a natural 'booster' for sales. When you think of it, $$ wise it would have been better than including 'Where I Belong' or 'Goin' On'....'Susie Cincinatti'...
They could have gone one step further and used the John Stamos version of 'Forever' as a marketing gimmick, 'Full House' is still a fan favorite.
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Post by John Manning on Jun 28, 2022 7:06:16 GMT -5
That's some very poor forecasting on their behalf. Not including 'California Dreamin' on this set, you may as well grab a hammer and start hitting yourself in the head. Why would they not include that when it's in the ever popular, just released! 'Stranger Things'? Furthermore, they could have helped the sale of this set and put one of those nice 'advertising' stickers on the front of the collection advertising the fact. It shouldn't take a degree in Marketing to have worked that one out.
Isn’t it too early to release California Dreamin’ for copyright extension? Isn’t it VH1-MTV vintage? 1986? This is like looking in the dairy case of the store. You look for expiration dates. CopEx is about expiration dates, not just for our listening pleasure. 😂 Not sure I understand – Sounds of Summer is not a copyright extension set, it’s the latest in a very long tradition of near- annual, money-making greatest hits (& more, in this instance) compilations. Copyright retention doesn’t come into it.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 28, 2022 7:14:49 GMT -5
Whether there is a Zoom meeting or not, all I want to know is if the fan base has been heard loud and clear by Capitol and Iconic. As consumers, we all vote with our dollars and like with Feel Flows, if we will be asked to spend $100 again, I hope it is on a product that we have been used to hearing and enjoying in the past. I think something like that can be communicated in a Zoom meeting or in a post here in the forum.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 28, 2022 7:43:27 GMT -5
Whether there is a Zoom meeting or not, all I want to know is if the fan base has been heard loud and clear by Capitol and Iconic. As consumers, we all vote with our dollars and like with Feel Flows, if we will be asked to spend $100 again, I hope it is on a product that we have been used to hearing and enjoying in the past. I think something like that can be communicated in a Zoom meeting or in a post here in the forum. online.berklee.edu/takenote/what-is-eq-in-music-10-audio-equalization-tips/#1 - turn a knob until it sounds better. I like that one! For those like myself, who know little-to-nothing about this whole world of sound technology. From Berklee School of Music.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 28, 2022 8:20:22 GMT -5
E.Q. ahaha! Even re-known Mastering engineer 'Steve Hoffman', had some cynical remarks to make about it. After watching this: Steve: 'Sounds like +10@8k. Ouch!'
A month or so later he commented...
"I dunno, I heard a few, Helen Keller might like it but my ears cannot take it."
Who's Helen Keller? Helen Adams Keller (June 27, 1880 – June 1, 1968) was an American author, disability rights advocate, political activist and lecturer. Born in West Tuscumbia, Alabama, she lost her sight and her hearing after a bout of illness at the age of 19 months.
When a fan asked Steve, 'Are there any quick and easy EQ adjustments we could make on our own to bring this into the realm of listenability?
It doesn’t have to be perfect - just a couple tweaks to zap the main offenders? Steve: 'Not really. Not this time.'
Cracked me up!
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 28, 2022 8:20:48 GMT -5
Whether there is a Zoom meeting or not, all I want to know is if the fan base has been heard loud and clear by Capitol and Iconic. As consumers, we all vote with our dollars and like with Feel Flows, if we will be asked to spend $100 again, I hope it is on a product that we have been used to hearing and enjoying in the past. I think something like that can be communicated in a Zoom meeting or in a post here in the forum. This exactly. Just any kind of acknowledgement that they're actually listening and have heard our concerns. Thus far all we've had is Howie telling us to get a life.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 28, 2022 8:32:09 GMT -5
E.Q. ahaha! Even re-known Mastering engineer 'Steve Hoffman', had some cynical remarks to make about it. After watching this: Steve: Sounds like +10@8k. Ouch!
A month or so later he commented...
"I dunno, I heard a few, Helen Keller might like it but my ears cannot take it."
Who's Helen Keller? Helen Adams Keller (June 27, 1880 – June 1, 1968) was an American author, disability rights advocate, political activist and lecturer. Born in West Tuscumbia, Alabama, she lost her sight and her hearing after a bout of illness at the age of 19 months.
When a fan asked Steve, 'Are there any quick and easy EQ adjustments we could make on our own to bring this into the realm of listenability?
It doesn’t have to be perfect - just a couple tweaks to zap the main offenders? Steve: 'Not really. Not this time.'
Cracked me up!
That is interesting about Helen Keller. But, I am sort of determined to learn, (as a result of this discussion) and at least understand, a minimal level of this stuff. It is still a foreign language, but noted in my phone and my old car sound systems. So I should have paid attention earlier. My bad.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 28, 2022 8:50:45 GMT -5
E.Q. ahaha! Even re-known Mastering engineer 'Steve Hoffman', had some cynical remarks to make about it. After watching this: Steve: Sounds like +10@8k. Ouch!
A month or so later he commented...
"I dunno, I heard a few, Helen Keller might like it but my ears cannot take it."
Who's Helen Keller? Helen Adams Keller (June 27, 1880 – June 1, 1968) was an American author, disability rights advocate, political activist and lecturer. Born in West Tuscumbia, Alabama, she lost her sight and her hearing after a bout of illness at the age of 19 months.
When a fan asked Steve, 'Are there any quick and easy EQ adjustments we could make on our own to bring this into the realm of listenability?
It doesn’t have to be perfect - just a couple tweaks to zap the main offenders? Steve: 'Not really. Not this time.'
Cracked me up!
That is interesting about Helen Keller. But, I am sort of determined to learn, (as a result of this discussion) and at least understand, a minimal level of this stuff. It is still a foreign language, but noted in my phone and my old car sound systems. So I should have paid attention earlier. My bad. E.Q. or Equalization, really extends from the early or older days of listening to music. As a consumer in 2022, it's something that is usually taken care of when we listen to music now on a broad range of gear and equipment. In the early days of electronics, and if you look at amplifiers, you will have Bass, Treble, Midrange (sometimes) and these adjust the EQ. To go one step further and have more control on your sound, they actually made 'Equalizers' to insert into your HiFi gear that
you can adjust the frequencies of the sounds you are hearing. They gave you more control on your Bass, Treble and Mid sounds, because audio in the old days, was far more variable than what it is today. For the most part now, we put music on, and just listen, and we don't really have to adjust anything but volume, that's how far things have become 'standardized' and it's a good thing in a way, it means you shouldn't have to 'tweak' to make the recording sound good. Hi-Fi aficionado's will still use EQ for listening, but for the regular joe listener's, this is stuff that is taken care in mixing and mastering. Still, most music players still have Bass, Treble or some kind of EQ preset depending on your listening preferred habits. Some people like more top end, some like more bottom end. With a good EQ, even now, you can fine tune what you can't with your Bass, Treble and Mid controls. If everything is done with all things considered, the music presented should sound great on a transistor radio, to an ipod, to 10,000 dollar hifi setup. If the 'mixing and mastering' is done right, it should sound 'good' on all of the above.
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Post by mikedonn on Jun 28, 2022 9:13:58 GMT -5
Alan would have my respect for sure.
A Zoom would be great. We could email David with questions that would be selected and those who submitted them get to ask them.
I'm sure they could be worded in a respectful way and wouldn't need to be censored too much.
I'd also be interested as to the process of selecting tracks and artwork, as well as thoughts on sound issues.
These guys are all fans and I'm sure they do appreciate some of the issues with mixes and sound. I mean sometimes these things happen. For example, Mark went back and corrected issues with his California Girls stereo mixes. It shouldn't be personal.
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Post by dauber on Jun 28, 2022 9:35:12 GMT -5
To piggy-back onto the obvious "why all the treble/bass/compression?", I'm curious to know how exactly they listen and determine if any given track is finished and releasable: what they look for, what equipment they use, if they're listening via equipment the target audience is likely listening to, etc.
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Post by John Manning on Jun 28, 2022 9:56:44 GMT -5
I suspect that what I'm really listening for on any system is the sounds I heard as a kid on my old (though then-new) Technics system. That's probably the preset default tone that'd (subconsciously) delight me most.
My two Roberts players are both bass biased, and I dislike them, tbh. My expensive hifi system (which Alan S gave me much appreciated on several years ago) is currently redundant, as the amp is kapput – "board's gone" is the technical term for it, and the factory that made the chips that ran the board burned down, so I basically need a new amp. I'm therefore stuck with lesser playback systems, until I win the lottery tomorrow.
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Post by E on Jun 28, 2022 11:16:57 GMT -5
My two Roberts players are both bass biased, and I dislike them, tbh.
I dislike too much bass too. I wonder if it's an age thing in that I'm fucking sick of hearing kids playing music where it seems all bass. Maybe that's the way forward to keep in with the kidz. All bass and no treble.
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