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Post by E on May 20, 2022 5:46:13 GMT -5
Interview with Charles Lloyd which kinda fits this period: Q Tell me more about Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.A They took me on the road with them. They underwrote me for several years, because it was during the time when I wasn’t traveling. But I would go out on the road with them — and Brian, who’s deaf in one ear, but has a quasi- Beethoven thing going on where he can hear around a corner. And he can write some beautiful songs. I was shocked that they had some changes in them and beautiful harmonies. I had to take them to the woodshed. Q You’re still playing them: “Caroline, No,” “God Only Knows.”A There are others, too. Q Let’s go back to the chronology.A Well, the plantation system just didn’t work for me any more. Atlantic Records had blackballed me. They weren’t willing to deal with me on the level. So Mike Love came around and said, “What do you need?” The Beach Boys had this big estate in Bel Air, where — what was that guy’s name? The racist guy who wrote the Tarzan books? Edgar Rice Burroughs! He had lived there at one time. There’s a huge studio downstairs, and Mike Love said, “Well, fine, you can use the studio any time you want.” So I’d be down there in the studio. And they’d invite me to play on some of their songs. I played on “Surf’s Up” and some of the other tunes. And sometimes Brian would come down and sing harmony. Brian Wilson is a very special guy. That guy’s a visionary. And in the studio, he’s amazing. So another door opened for me. I was blackballed, but I was free. And then Roger McGuinn was another neighbor in Malibu. So I played on some of his songs, and it just happened organically, I guess. I just kept learning from all this stuff. I remember the Beach Boys would have these rehearsals and — it sounds terrible! And then they’d get up on stage, and it’d be angelic. So I said to my roadie one day, “Man, how does this work?” He said, “Charles, this thing is a force of nature.” Q They were into the fourth dimension, maybe.A Once you hear music, you’re never the same. We go out there exploring, and we don’t come back the same. www.mercurynews.com/2014/09/18/the-complete-qa-charles-lloyd-speaks-dreams/
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Post by filledeplage on May 20, 2022 7:18:09 GMT -5
Interview with Charles Lloyd which kinda fits this period: Q Tell me more about Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys.A They took me on the road with them. They underwrote me for several years, because it was during the time when I wasn’t traveling. But I would go out on the road with them — and Brian, who’s deaf in one ear, but has a quasi- Beethoven thing going on where he can hear around a corner. And he can write some beautiful songs. I was shocked that they had some changes in them and beautiful harmonies. I had to take them to the woodshed. Q You’re still playing them: “Caroline, No,” “God Only Knows.”A There are others, too. Q Let’s go back to the chronology.A Well, the plantation system just didn’t work for me any more. Atlantic Records had blackballed me. They weren’t willing to deal with me on the level. So Mike Love came around and said, “What do you need?” The Beach Boys had this big estate in Bel Air, where — what was that guy’s name? The racist guy who wrote the Tarzan books? Edgar Rice Burroughs! He had lived there at one time. There’s a huge studio downstairs, and Mike Love said, “Well, fine, you can use the studio any time you want.” So I’d be down there in the studio. And they’d invite me to play on some of their songs. I played on “Surf’s Up” and some of the other tunes. And sometimes Brian would come down and sing harmony. Brian Wilson is a very special guy. That guy’s a visionary. And in the studio, he’s amazing. So another door opened for me. I was blackballed, but I was free. And then Roger McGuinn was another neighbor in Malibu. So I played on some of his songs, and it just happened organically, I guess. I just kept learning from all this stuff. I remember the Beach Boys would have these rehearsals and — it sounds terrible! And then they’d get up on stage, and it’d be angelic. So I said to my roadie one day, “Man, how does this work?” He said, “Charles, this thing is a force of nature.” Q They were into the fourth dimension, maybe.A Once you hear music, you’re never the same. We go out there exploring, and we don’t come back the same. www.mercurynews.com/2014/09/18/the-complete-qa-charles-lloyd-speaks-dreams/Thanks for that - “Charles, this thing is a force of nature.” You need look no further. 🎶☀️
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on May 20, 2022 11:00:55 GMT -5
Personally something that’s at the top of my wishlist for this box is the Brian mix of Funky Pretty that Blondie recently talked about. “Brian was a little bit there during Carl and the Passions, but he was mostly there in the studio during Holland. I thought he was just completely energetic and all over the place – in a good way – when he was doing backgrounds and everything. He’s very quick – I mean he will throw a part to each person. You don’t know the full scope of where this part is fitting, but when we start to sing the song, it makes so much sense. So, I was just amazed at how quick he was and how effortless it was for him to put the parts together, and moving parts and the counterparts.” Brian’s been described as having a tough go at it in his life during this time. “Well, there might be that element, but I’m just talking about when he was in the studio – this is what I saw, you know what I mean? And it was a pleasant experience. I enjoyed it on “Funky Pretty” especially. I wish they had kept the mix that HE had done, where everything was kind of full ball and it made people a little nervous because it went a little in the red (overload), but it was a whole lot more powerful, and very, very like overwhelmingly strong. He was behind the board this time – but not just this one time. He would try certain things and they just sounded fantastic.” www.brianwilson.com/blondiechaplinNo idea if this mix that he’s talking about is something that still exists but if it does I would love to hear it
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Post by Rick Bartlett on May 20, 2022 11:10:12 GMT -5
"....I wish they had kept the mix that HE had done, where everything was kind of full ball and it made people a little nervous because it went a little in the red (overload), but it was a whole lot more powerful, and very, very like overwhelmingly strong. He was behind the board this time – but not just this one time. He would try certain things and they just sounded fantastic.” A whaa...huh?.... Whhaa! Brian mix? What the? That kind of blew me away too hearing this! We need more info, more clarification, more Blondie and more Brian Wilson mixes it seems... Then we have Brian's reaction in the 'LPR' documentary about 'Funky Pretty', and he seems like, 'oh yeah, I/We were great on that one' attitude.... Could Brian be thinking about his own mix he did and not the one that ended up on the album?
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 20, 2022 11:55:27 GMT -5
"....I wish they had kept the mix that HE had done, where everything was kind of full ball and it made people a little nervous because it went a little in the red (overload), but it was a whole lot more powerful, and very, very like overwhelmingly strong. He was behind the board this time – but not just this one time. He would try certain things and they just sounded fantastic.” A whaa...huh?.... Whhaa! Brian mix? What the? That kind of blew me away too hearing this! We need more info, more clarification, more Blondie and more Brian Wilson mixes it seems... Then we have Brian's reaction in the 'LPR' documentary about 'Funky Pretty', and he seems like, 'oh yeah, I/We were great on that one' attitude.... Could Brian be thinking about his own mix he did and not the one that ended up on the album? It sounds like Brian’s mix may be closer to the live version than what was released on Holland.
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Post by Custom Machine on May 22, 2022 2:33:20 GMT -5
As a followup to the discussion of the Carl and the Passions - "So Tough" album cover on in the US, as startbuddy posted and Dirk and Mikie confirmed, unlike releases in other parts of the world, the original May 1972 Brother/Reprise US album cover itself made absolutely no mention of The Beach Boys, leaving one with the impression that the album was by a group called Carl and the Passions with a title "So Tough." But the album cover shrink wrap did have a rather large sticker stating, "THE BEACH BOYS SPECIALLY PRICED 2-RECORD SET." A friend and I had been calling all the local record stores asking if they'd received the new BB album, and when a local independent store, Soundsville, confirmed that they had just put it out in their bins we rushed over to pick up copies. My friend opened his copy first, and having seen the inner-gatefold I decided to leave the shrink wrap on my copy to preserve the sticker on top of the shrink wrap. So here's what purchasers saw in the record stores when the album was first released. And interestingly, on the spine, Pet Sounds got first billing -- "THE BEACH BOYS / PET SOUNDS / CARL AND THE PASSIONS - SO TOUGH" I bought a second copy in March 1979 and removed the shrink wrap. I assume the sticker was still in use at the time, but I have no distinct recollection one way or the other. As we know, when the album was first released on CD in Feb. 1991 and again as part of the two-for series with Holland in August 2000, they wisely added "THE BEACH BOYS" in large stencil style lettering on the cover. But there was one more vinyl release in the US, this time as a standalone without Pet Sounds, in May 2015, on Brother/Capitol. This time the cover was similar to those originally released in the rest of the world, with THE BEACH BOYS in relatively small black lettering across the top as earlier posted by the Saucy Heinz Ketchup Man. (And for completeness it should be noted that in some regions of the world THE BEACH BOYS lettering at the top is in white.) Finally, in retrospect, IMO, despite Carl Wilson's increasing importance to The Beach Boys in both their recording and touring endeavors, things would have made a lot more sense to the general public if the album title was simply "So Tough" with the cover appearing as originally released but the lettering stating The Beach Boys "So Tough".
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Post by boogieboarder on May 22, 2022 9:31:10 GMT -5
Strange, though, that the album titled after Carl contained not a single song written by Carl, other than “All This Is That” - listed as by Al Jardine and Carl Wilson. Carl’s presence as a songwriter was much more prominent on the preceding and subsequent albums.
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Post by craigslowinski on May 22, 2022 9:44:42 GMT -5
Strange, though, that the album titled after Carl contained not a single song written by Carl, other than “All This Is That” - listed as by Al Jardine and Carl Wilson. Carl’s presence as a songwriter was much more prominent on the preceding and subsequent albums. It's actually credited to Al, Carl, and Mike ("Jardine-Wilson-Love").
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Post by Mikie on May 22, 2022 10:33:08 GMT -5
Custom Machine, you're right on the money (as usual). Pretty sure I have an import standalone copy too from the 70's. Wasn't aware of the standalone 2015 vinyl re-issue though. The audio quality of this Warner/Reprise Pet Sounds release was of a high standard and always my go-to back then, along with the '74 release.
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robin
Kahuna
Posts: 116
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Post by robin on May 22, 2022 21:19:50 GMT -5
Went through my Dad's collection of Beach Boys LPs (he liked finding non-US copies of these quite a bit) and in his stash of such records I believe I have the solution to the mystery regarding the copy of CATP that actually has "T H E B E A C H B O Y S" printed across the top--a copy of which is in among his stash. It's a UK release, and I remember my Dad telling me that it was released on its own there--no PET SOUNDS reissue accompanying it. It may have been released elsewhere in Europe that way, but he's only got the UK version. He's got a UK and a German copy of HOLLAND, BTW...
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Post by dauber on May 23, 2022 6:28:30 GMT -5
Just went through discogs (dot) com because I could have sworn someone posted a picture in a forum some years ago of a late '70s or early '80s reissue of CATPST that had the stencil-style "THE BEACH BOYS" verbiage on the cover, but there isn't any of that on the site pre-1991. But I did see something interesting: in Germany and Italy a version of the album was released with a group photos on the cover, and self-titled.
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Post by AGD on May 23, 2022 6:44:04 GMT -5
Just went through discogs (dot) com because I could have sworn someone posted a picture in a forum some years ago of a late '70s or early '80s reissue of CATPST that had the stencil-style "THE BEACH BOYS" verbiage on the cover, but there isn't any of that on the site pre-1991. But I did see something interesting: in Germany and Italy a version of the album was released with a group photos on the cover, and self-titled. That first made its unwelcome appearence on the Brother/Reprise 2fers in 2000, at least as far as I recall.
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Post by jk on May 23, 2022 6:51:29 GMT -5
Just went through discogs (dot) com because I could have sworn someone posted a picture in a forum some years ago of a late '70s or early '80s reissue of CATPST that had the stencil-style "THE BEACH BOYS" verbiage on the cover, but there isn't any of that on the site pre-1991. But I did see something interesting: in Germany and Italy a version of the album was released with a group photos on the cover, and self-titled. A poster called Al at SS had this to say in 2006: "I've got a 1972 UK pressing of CATP and it HAS the band name across the top and a 1972 US pressing of the double CATP/Pet SOunds and it hasn't got the name. Looks like the single LP version has the name, the double doesn't. Weird." Sorry if this isn't relevant.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on May 23, 2022 6:57:49 GMT -5
Spite everything, having a new Beach Boys record released being called 'So Tough' by 'Carl & The Passions' makes no logical sense. Who gave this the 'OK' and thought this was a good idea? Apart from releasing it with 'Pet Sounds', which also makes no sense, what was the intention? It's like they wanted to make an album to fail. Seriously, apart from a few die hard fans of the time I guess, who would have related 'Carl and the Passions' to 'The Beach Boys'? I wasn't there, but it seems like some weird ass shit marketing to me... It's such a great record overall, and it's learned to stand on it's own legs because it is so great. Doesn't deny the fact of a poor cover and album title. This band, I tells Ya....
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Post by filledeplage on May 23, 2022 8:26:12 GMT -5
Spite everything, having a new Beach Boys record released being called 'So Tough' by 'Carl & The Passions' makes no logical sense. Who gave this the 'OK' and thought this was a good idea? Apart from releasing it with 'Pet Sounds', which also makes no sense, what was the intention? It's like they wanted to make an album to fail. Seriously, apart from a few die hard fans of the time I guess, who would have related 'Carl and the Passions' to 'The Beach Boys'? I wasn't there, but it seems like some weird ass shit marketing to me... It's such a great record overall, and it's learned to stand on it's own legs because it is so great. Doesn't deny the fact of a poor cover and album title. This band, I tells Ya....
It was sort of a gamble, I think at that time. I was willing to take a chance for the new tracks and by that time, it had the reverse effect on me, since I was getting a fresh copy of Pet Sounds and CATP was an intro to that short-windowed Holland era. It was not a loser release. There is no way that you wouldn’t connect Pet Sounds to Carl and that it was a BB release. And it seems that Pet Sounds (and Smiley) were out of print at that time, so it was not a bad deal. (If you can even conceive of a concept that Pet Sounds could ever be “out of print.”) If you check wiki, there is a small back story. It is a little rough-around-the-edges, but so were those years, and I never relied upon the critics, whom I felt were biased, mostly against this band, (I learned early in the game to rely on my impressions and not some hired-hack) in an attempt to shape the music narrative of the era. The proof was how many kids went to the concerts, which of course, mostly, they never bothered covering that aspect. They dismissed them. They were afraid to say that the band was still relevant and popular. I’d say it was, to steal a phrase from that time, “experimental.” You did get Marcella and All This is That, and, I think that they are two very solid tracks. And, an unscratched Pet Sounds - those who only had mp3 tracks might not understand the way vinyl could degrade, because mp3s don’t degrade that way. It was just being practical. 😂
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Post by dauber on May 23, 2022 8:51:36 GMT -5
Just went through discogs (dot) com because I could have sworn someone posted a picture in a forum some years ago of a late '70s or early '80s reissue of CATPST that had the stencil-style "THE BEACH BOYS" verbiage on the cover, but there isn't any of that on the site pre-1991. But I did see something interesting: in Germany and Italy a version of the album was released with a group photos on the cover, and self-titled. That first made its unwelcome appearance on the Brother/Reprise 2fers in 2000, at least as far as I recall.
Nope; it was definitely on the 1991 Caribou reissue, complete with that "D I G I T A L L Y R E M A S T E R E D" thing:
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Post by dauber on May 23, 2022 8:52:41 GMT -5
A poster called Al at SS had this to say in 2006: "I've got a 1972 UK pressing of CATP and it HAS the band name across the top and a 1972 US pressing of the double CATP/Pet SOunds and it hasn't got the name. Looks like the single LP version has the name, the double doesn't. Weird." Sorry if this isn't relevant.
Yeah, that's the subtle white text across the top. I mean that giant stencil in the red space on the lower left quarter.
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Post by AGD on May 23, 2022 9:19:16 GMT -5
That first made its unwelcome appearance on the Brother/Reprise 2fers in 2000, at least as far as I recall.
Nope; it was definitely on the 1991 Caribou reissue, complete with that "D I G I T A L L Y R E M A S T E R E D" thing:
Dammit, you're right, of course. I clean forgot the 1991 Caribou 1fers. Duh.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 23, 2022 11:42:16 GMT -5
They were also foolish to allow Carl and the Passions to be compared to Pet Sounds so easily.
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Post by filledeplage on May 23, 2022 17:53:06 GMT -5
As a followup to the discussion of the Carl and the Passions - "So Tough" album cover on in the US, as startbuddy posted and Dirk and Mikie confirmed, unlike releases in other parts of the world, the original May 1972 Brother/Reprise US album cover itself made absolutely no mention of The Beach Boys, leaving one with the impression that the album was by a group called Carl and the Passions with a title "So Tough." But the album cover shrink wrap did have a rather large sticker stating, "THE BEACH BOYS SPECIALLY PRICED 2-RECORD SET." A friend and I had been calling all the local record stores asking if they'd received the new BB album, and when a local independent store, Soundsville, confirmed that they had just put it out in their bins we rushed over to pick up copies. My friend opened his copy first, and having seen the inner-gatefold I decided to leave the shrink wrap on my copy to preserve the sticker on top of the shrink wrap. So here's what purchasers saw in the record stores when the album was first released. And interestingly, on the spine, Pet Sounds got first billing -- "THE BEACH BOYS / PET SOUNDS / CARL AND THE PASSIONS - SO TOUGH" I bought a second copy in March 1979 and removed the shrink wrap. I assume the sticker was still in use at the time, but I have no distinct recollection one way or the other. As we know, when the album was first released on CD in Feb. 1991 and again as part of the two-for series with Holland in August 2000, they wisely added "THE BEACH BOYS" in large stencil style lettering on the cover. But there was one more vinyl release in the US, this time as a standalone without Pet Sounds, in May 2015, on Brother/Capitol. This time the cover was similar to those originally released in the rest of the world, with THE BEACH BOYS in relatively small black lettering across the top as earlier posted by the Saucy Heinz Ketchup Man. (And for completeness it should be noted that in some regions of the world THE BEACH BOYS lettering at the top is in white.) Finally, in retrospect, IMO, despite Carl Wilson's increasing importance to The Beach Boys in both their recording and touring endeavors, things would have made a lot more sense to the general public if the album title was simply "So Tough" with the cover appearing as originally released but the lettering stating The Beach Boys "So Tough". Thanks for saving that shrink wrap. The “special price” for the 2 - was that Pet Sounds was FREE! (Check wiki.) A free fresh copy of Pet Sounds. You would have been pretty dumb not to take that offer! Later I got the 8 track CATP/Pet Sounds, for some ancient stereo system, I’m trying to remember the year, 74-75-ish, I think. It was donated to one of my schools, for its time capsule, where it will be opened, in 2025, IIRC.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on May 24, 2022 5:53:33 GMT -5
While we're playing a bit of 'show and tell'..... Here's a 1991 'So Tough' cassette version, with the stenciled artwork above the album cover. I didn't see it on discogs, so here it is. Recorded using Dolby B Noise Reduction system.
I got this in a clearance bin sometime back in the early 90's, when cassettes were a dead format and taken by the CD. This was brand new, and yep, I paid 95 cents for it, and silly me went and wrote it on the artwork in ballpoint pen. Stupid kid!
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Post by filledeplage on May 24, 2022 6:28:25 GMT -5
That was pretty awesome-and especially the 95¢ 🎶
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Post by Rick Bartlett on May 24, 2022 7:03:35 GMT -5
That was pretty awesome-and especially the 95¢ 🎶 Looking back and thinking, there was probably a tonne of them in there at that price at the time.... They probably would have ended up in the dumpster.
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Post by ohm on May 25, 2022 8:12:33 GMT -5
I've never really clicked with CATP, but I'm big on Holland, so really excited for this box set. I'm hoping there'll be plenty in there that'll help me get into CATP, as well as go full immersion on Holland.
Am I right in thinking the BBs did some gigs in Holland to support themselves whilst they were there? I wonder if they previewed any works in progress during the shows.
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Post by AGD on May 25, 2022 9:07:21 GMT -5
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