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Post by boogieboarder on May 16, 2022 9:40:33 GMT -5
Shed their image as a great band, perhaps? Then they succeeded. “All This is That” is a wonderful tune and arrangement, though.
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Post by monolithic on May 17, 2022 7:18:18 GMT -5
I don't think the group were particularly trying to shed any image. Blondie has said that it was recorded in very piecemeal fashion and it shows. I doubt Jack Rieley or anyone else had any great plan and it was just 4 very disparate parts of the group throwing their two songs each together.
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Post by Awesoman on May 17, 2022 8:39:03 GMT -5
By "shedding their image", I meant the band was heading in a different direction to attract new fans. Their popularity had dipped considerably in the last five years. As strong as the albums 𝑆𝑢𝑛𝑓𝑙𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟 and 𝑆𝑢𝑟𝑓'𝑠 𝑈𝑝 were, commercially neither album sold particularly well with the latter album only meeting modest expectations. I think there was a push to explore new territory in the band with a more "FM" sound and adding Ricky and Blondie to the mix was a part of that push. They may have not totally succeeded in that attempt (at least in album sales) but again I liked where they were going with that direction.
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Post by filledeplage on May 17, 2022 8:51:23 GMT -5
By "shedding their image", I meant the band was heading in a different direction to attract new fans. Their popularity had dipped considerably in the last five years. As strong as the albums 𝑆𝑢𝑛𝑓𝑙𝑜𝑤𝑒𝑟 and 𝑆𝑢𝑟𝑓'𝑠 𝑈𝑝 were, commercially neither album sold particularly well with the latter album only meeting modest expectations. I think there was a push to explore new territory in the band with a more "FM" sound and adding Ricky and Blondie to the mix was a part of that push. They may have not totally succeeded in that attempt (at least in album sales) but again I liked where they were going with that direction. My sense is that they had already broken through the “underground” FM/student radio network sound barrier around 1968. It might not have been as apparent until the early 70s on the college circuit which Jack did not invent but, perhaps amplified. It was an income stream for the colleges/universities as well. They were effectively competing with the local theaters for bookings. It had less of a special event (like a prom or noted speaker) feel. Of course students had first dibs on the tickets but they were sold to the public as well. And there was always someone with a mic from a student or other newspaper for an interview. And did it matter whether they sold a thousand tickets in a college auditorium or a theater? It was probably a cheaper overhead, as well, at a school, rather than other venues. I remember having seen The Four Tops at a college auditorium and thinking how well that worked and how fun it was to have that at school.
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Post by E on May 17, 2022 9:02:43 GMT -5
Hadn't they 'shed their image' with Smile/Smiley Smile? They just changed and grew. Imagine if you're a Beatles fan and they never evolved beyond Please, Please Me or a Stones' fan and they never changed from turning out raunchy blues-inflected tales dripping with sex. Oh, wait...
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Post by filledeplage on May 17, 2022 9:06:52 GMT -5
Hadn't they 'shed their image' with Smile/Smiley Smile? They just changed and grew. Imagine if you're a Beatles fan and they never evolved beyond Please, Please Me or a Stomes fan and they never changed from turning out raunchy blues-inflected tales dripping with sex. Oh, wait... And Wild Honey. I remember hearing Brian on some interview (or read it) that Paul McCartney walked into their studio (or some other location) with a great looking white suit. Is that the origin of the white suit on tour?
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Post by boogieboarder on May 17, 2022 10:36:17 GMT -5
Ironically, it wasn't until The Beach Boys embraced their early 60s surf/car hits that they became a stadium sell-out band again as a live act. Album wise, though, 15-Big Ones and Love You weren't going to do it for them.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 17, 2022 11:29:46 GMT -5
Hadn't they 'shed their image' with Smile/Smiley Smile? They just changed and grew. Imagine if you're a Beatles fan and they never evolved beyond Please, Please Me or a Stomes fan and they never changed from turning out raunchy blues-inflected tales dripping with sex. Oh, wait... It hadn’t been shed in the United States. Even with Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, the general public looked at them as passé. An oldies band with no “Hip” messaging within the lyrics of their music. Personally, the kids that I hung with knew nothing past Good Vibrations. While they may have liked a tune or two, they had never heard any of the albums from Smiley Smile through Sunflower until I played them WH through Sunflower (I didn’t own Smiley at the time). None of it was hard rock enough for them to enjoy. Surf’s Up was first album that most took notice of or that received a fair amount FM airplay. In 1972, my new friends in Arizona were even more clueless about band until I arrived to clue them in. 😁
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Post by E on May 17, 2022 12:23:32 GMT -5
No... I meant they'd shed their image - they'd moved on. I know what you mean. Same here overall. The general public - even the general Beach Boys fans listening public ain't us. The last time I saw Mike and Bruce (2017), there was a guy behind me trying to tell everyone that Al Jardine was on stage... Eveyrone loves the hits - and rightly, because they're damned good.
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Post by jds on May 17, 2022 12:54:15 GMT -5
I'm repeating myself, but this is an era where "What can the Beach Boys give me that the Doobie Brothers can't?" becomes a very uncomfortable question to answer.
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Post by Awesoman on May 17, 2022 12:56:33 GMT -5
Points all duly noted, but I do believe my initial comments are being read too deeply and possibly too personally here. Yes, you could argue that by the late 60's the band's sound was changing considerably. My point is everything they tried didn't seem to stick with fans during that time so bringing in Blondie and Ricky was perhaps a deliberate attempt to change/evolve the sound of the group. Play "Leaving This Town" or "Here She Comes" to any casual fan and they will never guess it's the Beach Boys. And wasn't it during this time the band even considered dropping either "Beach" or "Boys" from their group name? Someone either in this very thread or on the SS forum even mentioned they didn't like the album because it didn't sound like the band anymore. The change in tone within the group was intentional.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 17, 2022 15:26:19 GMT -5
Points all duly noted, but I do believe my initial comments are being read too deeply and possibly too personally here. Yes, you could argue that by the late 60's the band's sound was changing considerably. My point is everything they tried didn't seem to stick with fans during that time so bringing in Blondie and Ricky was perhaps a deliberate attempt to change/evolve the sound of the group. Play "Leaving This Town" or "Here She Comes" to any casual fan and they will never guess it's the Beach Boys. And wasn't it during this time the band even considered dropping either "Beach" or "Boys" from their group name? Someone either in this very thread or on the SS forum even mentioned they didn't like the album because it didn't sound like the band anymore. The change in tone within the group was intentional. I never realized until the dawn of the Internet that the pigeonholing of The Beach Boys was not just with the general public, but also with their very own fan base.
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Post by Matt H on May 17, 2022 15:27:01 GMT -5
Points all duly noted, but I do believe my initial comments are being read too deeply and possibly too personally here. Yes, you could argue that by the late 60's the band's sound was changing considerably. My point is everything they tried didn't seem to stick with fans during that time so bringing in Blondie and Ricky was perhaps a deliberate attempt to change/evolve the sound of the group. Play "Leaving This Town" or "Here She Comes" to any casual fan and they will never guess it's the Beach Boys. And wasn't it during this time the band even considered dropping either "Beach" or "Boys" from their group name? Someone either in this very thread or on the SS forum even mentioned they didn't like the album because it didn't sound like the band anymore. The change in tone within the group was intentional. Brian wanted to change the name to Beach, but no one else was on board.
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Post by filledeplage on May 17, 2022 16:03:24 GMT -5
Points all duly noted, but I do believe my initial comments are being read too deeply and possibly too personally here. Yes, you could argue that by the late 60's the band's sound was changing considerably. My point is everything they tried didn't seem to stick with fans during that time so bringing in Blondie and Ricky was perhaps a deliberate attempt to change/evolve the sound of the group. Play "Leaving This Town" or "Here She Comes" to any casual fan and they will never guess it's the Beach Boys. And wasn't it during this time the band even considered dropping either "Beach" or "Boys" from their group name? Someone either in this very thread or on the SS forum even mentioned they didn't like the album because it didn't sound like the band anymore. The change in tone within the group was intentional. Brian wanted to change the name to Beach, but no one else was on board. Was that Jack or was that Brian?
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on May 17, 2022 19:04:31 GMT -5
I might be very off here, but unless I am very mistaken, weren’t there versions of Carl and the passions where, at least on the front cover, the Beach Boys name was absolutely nowhere to be found? I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do with that, the album title, adding the new members, but I certainly don’t rule out the fact they may have been trying to completely rebrand themselves. If CATP was somehow absolutely wildly successful, is it possible the next year we could’ve seen an album titled Carl and the Passions - "Holland”? And then a Carl and the Passions - "In Concert"?
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 17, 2022 20:35:11 GMT -5
I might be very off here, but unless I am very mistaken, weren’t there versions of Carl and the passions where, at least on the front cover, the Beach Boys name was absolutely nowhere to be found? I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do with that, the album title, adding the new members, but I certainly don’t rule out the fact they may have been trying to completely rebrand themselves. If CATP was somehow absolutely wildly successful, is it possible the next year we could’ve seen an album titled Carl and the Passions - "Holland”? And then a Carl and the Passions - "In Concert"? Yep, the Carl and the Passions- “So Tough” LP did not have “The Beach Boys” on the front cover. I found it confusing when the the guy at the record store showed it to me. Because it was combined with Pet Sounds, I knew it had to be them. When I finally purchased the LPs, the labels did have “The Beach Boys” below the album title. Honestly, I thought was a just a marketing ploy. The 8-Track was much easier to identify, as The Beach Boys was clearly on the bottom edge label.
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ryankc
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 97
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Post by ryankc on May 17, 2022 22:17:03 GMT -5
In regards to them changing their name from The Beach Boys to The Beach, I recall reading a Desper post (not sure if on here or on SS) in which he discussed having a piece of paper in which Brian had gotten all the other guys signatures to agree to change the name to The Beach. It wasn't a contract, just a regular piece of paper.
With So Tough, I happen to find it to be an incohesive album. They still were making great music but having only 8 songs weakened it. The inner band politics as well I'm sure factored into the track list that we have. The lack of Brian and Dennis songs being weaker than usual makes it a half great album for me. I'm sure they were trying to go in a new direction after Surf's Up. Adding Blondie and Ricky and losing Bruce definitely represented a shift, though it was fairly short-lived. I'm sure there was a push to keep evolving with the times.
Does anyone know why they picked the name CATP - ST? Are there theories that they were trying to rebrand as Carl and the Passions? We all know the origins of the name, but I, at least, do not know why the album got that name.
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Post by John Manning on May 18, 2022 1:07:07 GMT -5
I might be very off here, but unless I am very mistaken, weren’t there versions of Carl and the passions where, at least on the front cover, the Beach Boys name was absolutely nowhere to be found? I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do with that, the album title, adding the new members, but I certainly don’t rule out the fact they may have been trying to completely rebrand themselves. If CATP was somehow absolutely wildly successful, is it possible the next year we could’ve seen an album titled Carl and the Passions - "Holland”? And then a Carl and the Passions - "In Concert"? My U.K. original has the band’s name on the spine and label only – not on the rear of the album cover – though in such a way as to make clear that “Carl and the Passions – So Tough” is in its entirety the title of the album.
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Post by AGD on May 18, 2022 1:25:14 GMT -5
I might be very off here, but unless I am very mistaken, weren’t there versions of Carl and the passions where, at least on the front cover, the Beach Boys name was absolutely nowhere to be found? I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do with that, the album title, adding the new members, but I certainly don’t rule out the fact they may have been trying to completely rebrand themselves. If CATP was somehow absolutely wildly successful, is it possible the next year we could’ve seen an album titled Carl and the Passions - "Holland”? And then a Carl and the Passions - "In Concert"? Yep, the Carl and the Passions- “So Tough” LP did not have “The Beach Boys” on the front cover. I found it confusing when the the guy at the record store showed it to me. Because it was combined with Pet Sounds, I knew it had to be them. When I finally purchased the LPs, the labels did have “The Beach Boys” below the album title. Honestly, I thought was a just a marketing ploy. The 8-Track was much easier to identify, as The Beach Boys was clearly on the bottom edge label. Actually, it did, but quite subtly.
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Post by AGD on May 18, 2022 1:32:32 GMT -5
My U.K. original has the band’s name on the spine and label only – not on the rear of the album cover – though in such a way as to make clear that “Carl and the Passions – So Tough” is in its entirety the title of the album. If anything, it's slightly more obvious on the UK release.
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Post by John Manning on May 18, 2022 1:39:15 GMT -5
Cripes, have been back and checked – what witchcraft is this?!?! Suddenly both my copies have that lettering, only mine are in black, not white!
So the Epic CD reissue and later two-fer went so far as to remove that lettering and replace it with the vulgar, more prominently positioned, stencilled “The Beach Boys” lettering. Curious.
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Post by E on May 18, 2022 2:15:12 GMT -5
I'm repeating myself, but this is an era where "What can the Beach Boys give me that the Doobie Brothers can't?" becomes a very uncomfortable question to answer. Don't agree at all, but what the hey...
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Post by AGD on May 18, 2022 2:23:49 GMT -5
Cripes, have been back and checked – what witchcraft is this?!?! Suddenly both my copies have that lettering, only mine are in black, not white! So the Epic CD reissue and later two-fer went so far as to remove that lettering and replace it with the vulgar, more prominently positioned, stencilled “The Beach Boys” lettering. Curious. Black on UK release, white on US. If it's any consolation, it took me something like six, seven years to realise that the image on the cover of Holland was (intentionally) printed upside down.
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Post by Matt H on May 18, 2022 7:27:54 GMT -5
Brian wanted to change the name to Beach, but no one else was on board. Was that Jack or was that Brian? The story I remember is this. The band was recording at Brian's house, and Brian was upstairs. Brian comes downstairs and has a piece of paper that essentially says that they will now just go by Beach as the band name. There is a spot for each Beach Boy to sign to make it official. Noone agrees, and Brian goes back upstairs to his room.
I could be wrong, but that is what I remember reading.
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Post by Awesoman on May 18, 2022 7:53:52 GMT -5
Hadn't they 'shed their image' with Smile/Smiley Smile? They just changed and grew. Imagine if you're a Beatles fan and they never evolved beyond Please, Please Me or a Stones' fan and they never changed from turning out raunchy blues-inflected tales dripping with sex. Oh, wait... In fairness to the Stones, they've dabbled in many genres of music including rock, country, blues, folk, dance, and even (less notably) a little hip hop. They may have had a distinctive persona but they never really stayed in one place singularly with their music.
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