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Post by Micha on Dec 12, 2019 12:48:21 GMT -5
Thanks a lot!
> It’s from the Drurrie Parks acetates which ended up with a record dealer who sold them for $10k and wouldn't allow us to have a copy. He played it for me once and I managed to get a part on my cellphone and added to the end of the CIFOTM acetate
Crazy!
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Post by zebulan on Dec 12, 2019 13:44:43 GMT -5
Thanks a lot!
> It’s from the Drurrie Parks acetates which ended up with a record dealer who sold them for $10k and wouldn't allow us to have a copy. He played it for me once and I managed to get a part on my cellphone and added to the end of the CIFOTM acetate
Crazy!
It's a bootleg of a bootleg! I've listened to the fragment quite a bit, and I think the workshop sounds (sounds like a saw and hammer?) are indeed part of the actual track. I think the section is supposed to bridge Friday Night to Barnyard.
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Post by zebulan on Dec 12, 2019 14:45:09 GMT -5
Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Perhaps the relationship is the other way around, with Workshop having workshop sounds because it was designed to precede the existing I'm in Great Shape section that had originally been recorded for H&V.
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Post by Micha on Dec 13, 2019 0:06:15 GMT -5
Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Perhaps the relationship is the other way around, with Workshop having workshop sounds because it was designed to precede the existing I'm in Great Shape section that had originally been recorded for H&V.
That would then be verses-IWBA-Workshop-IIGS-Children/3rd verse-whatever ending. Doesn't sound like a coherent tune in my mind. Sounds rather like Brian experimenting toying around with a pet idea (tool sounds) being indecisive how to use it. Ahh, those pre-SMiLE days when he used to put his ideas together in his mind first and then go and record an incredible tune in one afternoon! Whether workshop was to precede IIGS or not, he scrapped it all. Some of it for a good reason IMHO.
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Post by Micha on Dec 13, 2019 0:07:55 GMT -5
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Post by zebulan on Dec 13, 2019 10:05:15 GMT -5
Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Perhaps the relationship is the other way around, with Workshop having workshop sounds because it was designed to precede the existing I'm in Great Shape section that had originally been recorded for H&V.
That would then be verses-IWBA-Workshop-IIGS-Children/3rd verse-whatever ending. Doesn't sound like a coherent tune in my mind. Sounds rather like Brian experimenting toying around with a pet idea (tool sounds) being indecisive how to use it. Ahh, those pre-SMiLE days when he used to put his ideas together in his mind first and then go and record an incredible tune in one afternoon! Whether workshop was to precede IIGS or not, he scrapped it all. Some of it for a good reason IMHO.
I'm not suggesting that IWBA/Workshop was ever part of H&V. I'm suggesting that when IiGS was split out from H&V into its own track, IWBA/Workshop was recorded to precede the title section, resulting in this structure: I Wanna Be Around Friday Night (Workshop) I'm in Great Shape title section Barnyard (fade) IWBA and Barnyard were found in a box labeled "Great Shape", weren't they?
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Post by Micha on Dec 15, 2019 23:44:03 GMT -5
That would then be verses-IWBA-Workshop-IIGS-Children/3rd verse-whatever ending. Doesn't sound like a coherent tune in my mind. Sounds rather like Brian experimenting toying around with a pet idea (tool sounds) being indecisive how to use it. Ahh, those pre-SMiLE days when he used to put his ideas together in his mind first and then go and record an incredible tune in one afternoon! Whether workshop was to precede IIGS or not, he scrapped it all. Some of it for a good reason IMHO.
I'm not suggesting that IWBA/Workshop was ever part of H&V. I'm suggesting that when IiGS was split out from H&V into its own track, IWBA/Workshop was recorded to precede the title section, resulting in this structure: I Wanna Be Around Friday Night (Workshop) I'm in Great Shape title section Barnyard (fade) IWBA and Barnyard were found in a box labeled "Great Shape", weren't they? Ah, get it now.
Either order of those sections doesn't make sense to me in my mind. No wonder Brian scrapped that. They really only work in a movement layout as SMiLE ended up in 2004, but not as a standalone track in a 12 tracks with fades album VDP said SMiLE was projected as in 1966/67.
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Dec 16, 2019 11:07:22 GMT -5
Just for the record, if someone wants to hear an estimation of what the Durrie Parks acetate sounded like, I made a recreation here based off of it's description: Durrie Parks Acetate
I'm not suggesting that IWBA/Workshop was ever part of H&V. I'm suggesting that when IiGS was split out from H&V into its own track, IWBA/Workshop was recorded to precede the title section, resulting in this structure: I Wanna Be Around Friday Night (Workshop) I'm in Great Shape title section Barnyard (fade) IWBA and Barnyard were found in a box labeled "Great Shape", weren't they? I fully agree with your structure of the Barnyard suite. Musically, there really is no other way to arrange those 4 sections of music. I love that we finally figured this out tho, it flows so incredibly well. My theory on everything, is that Brian only used the singles of Heroes and Villains as a teaser for the Smile album. No matter what Heroes and Villains single mix you would use, it would not be the way the song goes on the album. I don't believe Brian took Great Shape out of Heroes and Villains and put it into the Barnyard Suite. What I do believe happened, was that Brian wrote the Barnyard Suite, and decided to use some of it's sections in the Heroes and Villains single. Think about it. He had all the instrumental tracks for the Barnyard Suite recorded after the Humble Harv demo. So yes, you could argue that he did take Great shape out and made it it's own song. But, in late December they recorded vocals for the humble harv Heroes and Villains mix, so that can't be the case. Which is which then? I say, why can't Great Shape be for both? As soon as Christmas is over, Brian starts working on the Bridge to Indians mix by finishing vocals for Do You Like Worms/Bicycle Rider. To me, that mix can't be for a single. It's too complex. I suggest it must be for the album. Those are just my theories. IWBA and Barnyard were found in a box labeled "Great Shape", weren't they? The session I Wanna Be Around and Friday Night were recorded at was logged as "Friday Night (I'm in great shape)", but that wasn't on the tape box. There isn't an association anywhere between those and Barnyard. Definitely. There is an Association between Barnyard and Great Shape however. So I'd argue that they're still relatives, albeit distant. It was still under a Heroes and Villains session, though. And it's been confirmed that this fragment is part of a longer backing track edit on that acetate that goes Great Shape > Children (unheard version) > Verse (from three score cue) Was it a new, unheard version? If I can recall correctly, I thought he had just described it as a tape-edit between the Smiley CWR and the older CWR. Can we get a link to that post? Also, I don't think he said that Great Shape specifically was edited together with CWR, I think he just described it as a hard edit, which makes it sound like Brian was just compiling them together, not mixing.
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Post by zebulan on Dec 17, 2019 11:06:32 GMT -5
Quoted from here: The wording is a bit confusing here, but I think what Andy is saying is that the CWR section was a harpsichord backing track (with no vocals) that sounded similar to the "Cantina" version of CWR, rather than the later Smiley arrangement.
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Dec 17, 2019 17:19:03 GMT -5
Using the Spleeter Vocal Isolation technology, I created the ultimate Heroes and Villains Acapella mix that includes the "Stand or Fall" lyrics. Here it is below! Enjoy! Got an Xmas surprise coming soon 🤫 Heroes and Villains - Ultimate Acapella
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Post by John Manning on Dec 17, 2019 17:47:53 GMT -5
Using the Spleeter Vocal Isolation technology, I created the ultimate Heroes and Villains Acapella mix that includes the "Stand or Fall" lyrics. Here it is below! Enjoy! Got an Xmas surprise coming soon 🤫 Heroes and Villains - Ultimate AcapellaHitsville! Can I ask which CD release you sourced the track for extraction from please?
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Dec 18, 2019 9:43:22 GMT -5
Using the Spleeter Vocal Isolation technology, I created the ultimate Heroes and Villains Acapella mix that includes the "Stand or Fall" lyrics. Here it is below! Enjoy! Got an Xmas surprise coming soon 🤫 Heroes and Villains - Ultimate AcapellaHitsville! Can I ask which CD release you sourced the track for extraction from please? Thanks! I used the original Mono mix of the song, and I think I sourced it from the 2012 remaster of Smiley Smile. There probably is a version out there that could get a better extraction of the "La la las".
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Post by John Manning on Dec 18, 2019 12:10:20 GMT -5
Hitsville! Can I ask which CD release you sourced the track for extraction from please? Thanks! I used the original Mono mix of the song, and I think I sourced it from the 2012 remaster of Smiley Smile. There probably is a version out there that could get a better extraction of the "La la las". well I impressed myself by recognizing the 2012 aspect though listening on an iPhone’s inbuilt speaker I couldn’t tell whether it was stereo, quad, surround or what! Wonder what the Analogue Productions SACD/CD hybrid would dish up? Same mix but different mastering, I think.
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Post by pendlewitch on Dec 18, 2019 12:30:18 GMT -5
Using the Spleeter Vocal Isolation technology, I created the ultimate Heroes and Villains Acapella mix that includes the "Stand or Fall" lyrics. Here it is below! Enjoy! Got an Xmas surprise coming soon 🤫 Heroes and Villains - Ultimate AcapellaI listened to this several times in succession today - I very much enjoyed it, thanks!
(Instruments. Pff, who needs 'em?!)
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Dec 18, 2019 22:18:28 GMT -5
Wonder what the Analogue Productions SACD/CD hybrid would dish up? Same mix but different mastering, I think. Probably not the desired result we'd want. The vocal overdubs for that session were done impromptu-ly onto the Mono master... or something like that (I can't remember Boyd's exact phrasing). All the stereo versions of Heroes and Villains use fake Stereo for that section.
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Post by WillJC on Jan 3, 2020 7:20:07 GMT -5
Ok, time for some good 'ol detective work because it's been a while!
The dating for the BBs finishing Surf's Up (the song) is usually estimated to sometime vaguely between June and July 1971, but I think it can be broken down to a much more precise timeframe. I found out the other day that during the Filmore East show (Sunday 27th June) Bruce made a little announcement RE Surf's Up that they "finally finished it last week", which due to a number of factors has to mean the working week leading up to that weekend. Assuming he's telling the truth, here's a timeline breakdown to give some context to what was going on in Beach Boy land and when:
Week starting the 14th June, probably between Monday and Wednesday - Jack Rieley records his lead vocal for A Day in the Life of a Tree. Other vocals are added after he goes home, including the Van Dyke Parks cameo. The song may have been finished that night.
Probably either Wednesday 16th or Thursday 17th - Tom Nolan (from Rolling Stone) visits Brian's house for the first time and talks to Jack Rieley. Dennis has yet to record vocals on some of his songs that need lyrics written "by Saturday". Nolan also speaks to Van Dyke Parks around the same sort of time.
Friday 18th - Carl is at Sunset Sound with a load of session musicians to produce an entirely new backing track for the first half of Surf's Up. According to Alan Boyd, this was pretty much an exact replica of the original arrangement performed in sync with Brian's piano/vocal version as a means to keep him singing lead, scrapped because it wasn't quite up to the same standard. By this point they'd (unsuccessfully) tried to fly-in Brian's vocals to the Nov '66 track and production was still in the early stages. Bruce's comments at the Filmore East make it clear that the rest must've happened very quickly.
Saturday 19th - Won't You Tell Me is recorded at Sunset Sound.
Sunday 20th - Brian's 29th birthday. Tom Nolan's back and gets more material for his article. Nolan weirdly claims this is the day before Brian's birthday, but everything else he writes points to his visit actually being on the day - it's a Sunday, Brian's been given various presents, all of the family are there, etc. Jack Rieley has written the lyrics for Fourth of July and Carl does his lead vocals later that night. There's also a short impromptu birthday song recording for Brian.
Between Monday 21st and Friday 25th - By deduction, this is when pretty much all of the 1971 work on Surf's Up had to have taken place. The group do a show in LA on Thursday, some sort of safety master is made on Friday (for the album or the song?), then at the weekend they're out on tour and Bruce makes that comment. Friday 25th June could well be the day Brian came down from his bedroom to finish the tag.
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Post by craigslowinski on Jan 23, 2020 2:20:01 GMT -5
Reviving this thread for a question about the Good Vibrations organ bridge. On early takes, there seem to be a piano and an electric piano type sounding thing playing along with the bass. It's clear that Brian's on the piano, Carl's playing guitar, Lyle Ritz is playing the bass, Dennis is playing the organ, and Hal is playing the percussion on these takes. Is it possible that Van Dyke is playing the low keys part? What instrument is that, anyway? Could it be the organ pedals he described? The instrument might be a Fender piano bass.
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Post by Cam Mott on Jan 23, 2020 17:12:56 GMT -5
The Ol' Gray Ears ain't what they used to be but by jove to me it sounds like "Van" for sure but not sure about the voice on "sorry".
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Post by Cam Mott on Jan 24, 2020 8:50:37 GMT -5
Can't the audio wizards use their magical isolation apps and comb filters and "your dip and your Velcro and all your gear" to isolate and enhance these bits? (They can always do it in the spy movies with just a bit of furious typing)
Also someone needs to sort out Van Dyke's words on his first three (or 4?) studio encounters with Brian. (coquettishly batting my eyes)
Please, pretty please with sprinkles on top.
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Post by ian on Feb 1, 2020 12:45:13 GMT -5
Regarding the surfs up timeline if Bruce’s comment at the June 27 show was accurate then the BBs would have had to finish by June 23. They were in LA as in Louisiana not Los Angeles June 24 and then were away from California till at least July 4 1971
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Post by dumdangel (Lee) on Feb 6, 2020 17:50:32 GMT -5
Can't the audio wizards use their magical isolation apps and comb filters and "your dip and your Velcro and all your gear" to isolate and enhance these bits? (They can always do it in the spy movies with just a bit of furious typing) Also someone needs to sort out Van Dyke's words on his first three (or 4?) studio encounters with Brian. (coquettishly batting my eyes) Please, pretty please with sprinkles on top. I recall Van talking about one of the first times he and Brian worked in the studio, and if I recall correctly, I think he was describing the Holidays Session from September. He said the track wasn't used and he played/conducted on the mallets.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 6, 2020 20:21:16 GMT -5
If I remember correctly VDP has claimed he was asked to rewrite Mike's lyric, so presumably after September 12 but he theoretically could have been asked to rewrite Asher's lyrics pre September 12. Not clear on how much VDP knew about the previous lyrics, the abandoned Asher lyrics would have been available, but he would have been very familiar with Mike's lyrics by the time he would make the claim.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 7, 2020 6:56:02 GMT -5
Interesting. I don't remember hearing so much detail about it before (or have forgotten).
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Post by Vale on Feb 12, 2020 5:23:25 GMT -5
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 12, 2020 10:45:25 GMT -5
Thanks, Vale, that is a great link - even if a few don’t work. A few are pretty good! 👍
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