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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 18, 2019 16:03:22 GMT -5
“The first session I remember was a ‘Good Vibrations’ session. I was there on my hands and knees, playing the bass pedals of the B3 organ, which you’ll hear in the middle of ‘Good Vibrations’, before the glottal ‘ahhh’.”
"Brian recently told me I suggested
the Hammond B3 bass pedals would make a great
fundamental for the intro to the last chorus ('Gotta keep
those lovin' good vibrations a-happening'). That may not be
true, but soon I was down on my hands and knees, with no
pedal dexterity. We were now hovering at a slower 120 beats
per minute."
VDP 2005
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Post by AGD on Mar 18, 2019 17:48:46 GMT -5
“The first session I remember was a ‘Good Vibrations’ session. I was there on my hands and knees, playing the bass pedals of the B3 organ, which you’ll hear in the middle of ‘Good Vibrations’, before the glottal ‘ahhh’.” VDP 2005 Err... I think VDP is misremembering here, as it's Dennis playing the organ on the middle eight. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Mar 18, 2019 22:48:27 GMT -5
There's no evidence of VDP's presence on the Sept. 1 session tape. Just Dennis, Carl, Brian, Hal, Tommy Morgan, Lyle Ritz, and Chuck.
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 19, 2019 6:29:39 GMT -5
In Priore's book (don't have it at hand) he says something about the tack piano session being a new instrumental or something and being within a day/days of the B3 session. My first suspect is "Holidays" unless both were something else done off-the-books, which does not sound like something VDP would be comfortable with or seem likely to me.
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Post by craigslowinski on Mar 19, 2019 6:34:05 GMT -5
Any evidence of him on any other GV session that uses an organ? (preemptively guessing no) The tack piano thing is another weird one. I noticed Al de Lory's part on the bridge was doubled with an overdub, is there any chance Van Dyke could've been the one who added that? (also preemptively guessing no) No evidence of either...just as there's no evidence of Glen Campbell on any GV session, despite the folklore. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 19, 2019 8:59:02 GMT -5
"The next thing I did, within a matter of a day or two, was to play the tack piano on the bridge – playing notes he told me to play, exactly when he told me to play.”
"By now, it was clear to me that 'arco' must have worked out OK, because Brian asked me to play some travelling sixths on the tack piano. This was new music, an instrumental release. I played the part Brian demonstrated, and we recorded it with him in the booth. I was at the right place at the right time, I figured. They store the four-track tails-out."
VDP 2005
So within days of the B3 session, tack piano, travelling sixths, Brian in the booth, 4 track, new music, instrumental. Fit any sessions?
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 19, 2019 12:27:13 GMT -5
Someone should ask who was playing the keys of the B3, if anyone.
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Post by craigslowinski on Mar 19, 2019 18:38:28 GMT -5
Don Randi tells a very similar story in the green booklet inside the Pet Sounds box set, only he says it was HE who was playing the organ pedals on "Good Vibrations". He says the session ran so late, he put a pillow on the foot pedals, and laid down to rest his head. Again, no evidence of that on the tapes.
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 19, 2019 19:00:37 GMT -5
I think we all agree this refers to June 12, 1966 (?):
"The album took eight months to record, if you count from the recording date of the cello solo for the chorus of 'Good Vibrations'*, played by Jesse Ehrlich, who played the fundamental eighth-note-triplet boogie. Like the freeze-frame of the ruby slippers in ‘The Wizard Of Oz’, that cello riff would
become the signature shot of the piece.
'Barko!' barks Brian into the control-room talk back in Western Recorders Studio 3. Chuck Britz is the engineer of this three-hour overdub session. Chuck embodies a quiet and reassuring confidence that could only come from a veteran of military service in the last just war. Chuck accomplishes missions.
‘Barko?' asks a perplexed Jesse from the studio. Jesse's not looking at any sheet music.
'Uh, that's arco, Brian - with the bow,' comes out from the corner of the control room. Things seem momentarily out of control.
'Okay, Jesse. Van Dyke sez "arco",' says a somewhat more subdued Brian.
Pure ear candy. Jesse - from an A-list of legit cellists for Hollywood's sound-stages - is himself astonished at the éclat of his own performance (though now a converted sceptic).
Non-stop four-track tape rolled in record and playback for the next two and a half hours, each phrase diligently re-executed, brought to a perfectly brittle ponticello ostinato - close-miked, hot and harder than ever. Jesse leaves his completed work, somehow transformed, vibrating at 144 beats per minute.
Brian didn't stop there. Another three metres of tape reeled by at 15 inches per second."
“And then I suggested how good a cello would be, and he got Jesse Ehrlich – who I knew – down there to play the triplet fundamentals. By suggesting that, and having him exploit it to such a hyperbolic degree, showed that he knew that I knew what I was talking about, and he knew what he was talking about, and we knew what each other was talking about.”
VDP 2005
I take it that in the second quote, when he says "and then", he doesn't mean he jumped into a time machine in September to go back to June 12, "then" means "at another time" not "after that time".
So my take is VDP was just observing and suggesting from the corner of the control room in June and first participating in sessions in September.
*So June 1966 into February 1967 eehhhh? I'm gonna bring this up again if I ever get my "When Did SMiLE End?" rant resurrected.
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Post by Autotune on Mar 19, 2019 19:31:50 GMT -5
The “barko” story seems made-up to me. String players ALWAYS play with the bow unless specified otherwise (that is, unless there’s a “pizzicato” [i.e. plucked] marking). There is no way a professional cellist like Ehrlich would have considered playing those fast-paced triplets with anything but his bow, as clear pizzicato playing at that speed and strength on a repeated note is virtually impossible— and I’m sure as heck that there was no “pizz” marking in Ehrlich’s part.
There’s two possibilities here:
1) the “barko” incident is made up or happened elsewhere, which further compromises VDP’s credibility about his account on this and other sessions.
2) an incident did exist but, the “arco” indication being so unnecesary and pointless, perhaps it was a case of VDP having fun at the expense of Brian’s ignorance and mispronunciation of such italian technical term.
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 19, 2019 19:36:49 GMT -5
Brian has also credited Carl with the cello triplets idea as I remember.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 20:05:52 GMT -5
There's no evidence of VDP's presence on the Sept. 1 session tape. Just Dennis, Carl, Brian, Hal, Tommy Morgan, Lyle Ritz, and Chuck. It could be that Don Randi and VDP both played the pedals, if VDP went out into the room to demonstrate the the part to him. I'm not saying that happened. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Mar 20, 2019 6:41:38 GMT -5
There's no evidence of VDP's presence on the Sept. 1 session tape. Just Dennis, Carl, Brian, Hal, Tommy Morgan, Lyle Ritz, and Chuck. It could be that Don Randi and VDP both played the pedals, if VDP went out into the room to demonstrate the the part to him. I'm not saying that happened. Definitely NOT on the Sept. 1 session that produced the organ bridge heard in the final version...that's Dennis playing the Hammond, as proven by the session tape. There is no evidence of either VDP or Randi on the tape, and neither name is on the AFM contract. One more thing...I was wrong about Chuck being present: the engineer on that date was Bowen David. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 20, 2019 7:05:09 GMT -5
Maybe we are reading too much into the quote. Maybe he demoed for Brian, down on his hands and knees, his suggestion of the B3 bass pedals and then Dennis actually played it during the recording while he sat undetectable in the booth as he apparently had on June 12. Surely Dennis (or Randi) was capable of playing his own bass pedals and he doesn't mean anything different. It's VDP, after all, bless his sometimes inscrutable heart.
Though not proof, it does seem to me to be enough detail to very strongly suggest the dates for the three sessions described.
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 20, 2019 8:18:21 GMT -5
On the other hand, why would someone as capable as VDP play the bass pedals on his hands and knees even in a demo scenario?
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Post by AGD on Mar 20, 2019 8:32:30 GMT -5
'Cause it makes for a better story ?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 0:29:39 GMT -5
Speaking of this session from September 1st, what do you guys make of the section "He Gives Speeches", which was also allegedly recorded at this session?
Both sections have the same chord progression, repeat for the same number of bars, with a very similar rhythm. Same musicians and same engineer too! What do you guys make of this?
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Post by craigslowinski on Mar 21, 2019 6:39:44 GMT -5
Speaking of this session from September 1st, what do you guys make of the section "He Gives Speeches", which was also allegedly recorded at this session? Both sections have the same chord progression, repeat for the same number of bars, with a very similar rhythm. Same musicians and same engineer too! What do you guys make of this? There's a good (better, IMO) chance that this was recorded at the Aug. 25 session for "Wonderful". It appears on the same tape reel as the organ bridge section of "GV", and perhaps Brian added the vocal at that later session. But that's why I used both dates as possibilities in my SMiLE Sessions sessionography. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 21, 2019 6:45:16 GMT -5
Speaking of this session from September 1st, what do you guys make of the section "He Gives Speeches", which was also allegedly recorded at this session? Both sections have the same chord progression, repeat for the same number of bars, with a very similar rhythm. Same musicians and same engineer too! What do you guys make of this? I don't know what to make of it but the tape box suggests it was one of two "nu songs" if I remember the note right. VDP has said he doesnt remember writing the words. I'd love to know who did write the lyrics if not VDP. My favorite suspect is Paul Jay Robbins. Is anyone familiar enough with his writing/lyrics/prose/haiku to have an opinion? |
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 21, 2019 8:07:27 GMT -5
Still don't know but by as early as August (2?) Brian was saying he already had written 5 songs for "Dumb Angel". So by Sept 1 there are reports of or sessions for 1. GV, 2. CIFOTM, 3. WC, 4. L/IR, 5. SGB/HGS and 6. Wonderful.
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Post by AGD on Mar 22, 2019 7:22:17 GMT -5
There was also a May 11th 1966 session for "H&V", so I'm guessing that was written by then...
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 22, 2019 9:13:03 GMT -5
There was also a May 11th 1966 session for "H&V", so I'm guessing that was written by then... Yes, so 7 at least by Sept. 1. That version was even before Capitol had assigned the SMiLE project number. Dumb Angel seems to have been well under way by then, almost enough for for an entire album. |
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 22, 2019 9:24:41 GMT -5
I'm not a musician, so wondering how many of these boxes are actually ticked off by the September 8 "Holidays" tapes and documentation:
1. Within days of the Sept 1 GV session
2. tack piano on the bridge
3. travelling sixths
4. Brian in the booth
5. 4 track
6. new music
7. instrumental
8. VDP in attendance
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 23, 2019 14:26:30 GMT -5
Frank Holmes remembers attending a Beach Boys vocal session at Columbia and standing around in the hall with Dennis and Terry Melcher. Was the full group at both the September 12th and 21st vocal sessions?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 14:31:04 GMT -5
Speaking of this session from September 1st, what do you guys make of the section "He Gives Speeches", which was also allegedly recorded at this session? Both sections have the same chord progression, repeat for the same number of bars, with a very similar rhythm. Same musicians and same engineer too! What do you guys make of this? I don't know what to make of it but the tape box suggests it was one of two "nu songs" if I remember the note right. VDP has said he doesnt remember writing the words. I'd love to know who did write the lyrics if not VDP. My favorite suspect is Paul Jay Robbins. Is anyone familiar enough with his writing/lyrics/prose/haiku to have an opinion? I don't know about Paul Jay Robbins, so I won't deny that, but I'd like to think the lyrics were Van's; he just can't remember. Same way Paul McCartney can't remember being on "Vega-Tables", and Brian can't remember "Good Vibrations" was saved for Smile. Who is Paul Jay Robbins tho? I'm not familiar with his stuff, can you tell me more? Speaking of this session from September 1st, what do you guys make of the section "He Gives Speeches", which was also allegedly recorded at this session? There's a good (better, IMO) chance that this was recorded at the Aug. 25 session for "Wonderful". It appears on the same tape reel as the organ bridge section of "GV", and perhaps Brian added the vocal at that later session. But that's why I used both dates as possibilities in my SMiLE Sessions sessionography. Thanks for explaining your reasoning behind that Craig. What's the evidence that is was perhaps recorded during the August session for "Wonderful"? There were different engineers and an Organ wasn't even present at that session. Just curious! Still don't know but by as early as August (2?) Brian was saying he already had written 5 songs for "Dumb Angel". So by Sept 1 there are reports of or sessions for 1. GV, 2. CIFOTM, 3. WC, 4. L/IR, 5. SGB/HGS and 6. Wonderful. Based on the sessionography that quotes correct. Brian recorded at least by the end of August only 5 songs: "Good Vibrations", "Heroes And Villains", "Wind Chimes", "I Ran", and "Wonderful". I omit "He Gives Speeches" because I believe that was merely a section for another song (most likely "I Ran" based on my findings). I can't find any evidence in the sessionography for "Child Is Father of the Man" being worked on any earlier than October. There was also a May 11th 1966 session for "H&V", so I'm guessing that was written by then... I think we all would have loved to have heard that version of the song. I think the "Sunshine" element that people who have heard it said was present, was probably just the fade from "The Old Master Painter". But then again, I can see (speaking musically) how you could go from the "Heroes and Villains" verse to "The Old Master Painter". I think most of the Smile material, certainly at least the 5 "nu" songs Brian began working on were most likely written during July of '66. Frank Holmes remembers attending a Beach Boys vocal session at Columbia and standing around in the hall with Dennis and Terry Melcher. Was the full group at both the September 12th and 21st vocal sessions? Most likely the 12th, that was the last vocal session for "Good Vibrations" specifically. But I must've missed something, cause I can't find a session for anything on the 21st. Can you tell me about that Cam? I'm not a musician, so wondering how many of these boxes are actually ticked off by the September 8 "Holidays" tapes and documentation: 1. Within days of the Sept 1 GV session 2. tack piano on the bridge 3. travelling sixths 4. Brian in the booth 5. 4 track 6. new music 7. instrumental 8. VDP in attendance I doubt that tho Cam. It wasn't recorded until the 8th, a week later. That's enough time to write a new song. And because of "Holidays" Marimba instrumentation, "Wind Chimes" had to be re-recorded with Marimbas to match it's brother track. I don't think "Holidays" was written during the "nu songs" phase because the earliest version of "Wind Chimes" wasn't made with it in mind. |
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