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Post by Mikie on Dec 7, 2023 20:18:22 GMT -5
It was. On CD w/bonus tracks by Rhino in 1988. And again in 1989 in the U.K. Expensive af though I don’t have that kinda money lol Yeah, you had to buy the original CD's around the time they came out. They went out of print fairly quickly. So did the two Honeys comps.
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Post by longtime lurker on Dec 7, 2023 21:10:13 GMT -5
Absolutely un-freakin-believable that the Spring album hasn't yet been officially reissued. 🤬 It was. On CD w/bonus tracks by Rhino in 1988. And again in 1989 in the U.K. OK, but I think my original comment is still valid, if I amend it slightly to say "....officially reissued since 88"! 😆
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Post by nts1drums on Dec 8, 2023 16:00:35 GMT -5
And now for my second question since I never got around to asking it in the first place lol (my bad)
Do we happen to know any info about who played on Sweet Mountain? I imagine it was done relatively privately at the home studio, with Brian and David doing it with a saxophone and oboe player helping out. Moog is definitely all over the place from the sound of it.
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Post by longtime lurker on Dec 8, 2023 17:16:52 GMT -5
And now for my second question since I never got around to asking it in the first place lol (my bad) Do we happen to know any info about who played on Sweet Mountain? I imagine it was done relatively privately at the home studio, with Brian and David doing it with a saxophone and oboe player helping out. Moog is definitely all over the place from the sound of it. Specifically THAT song, no. However we do know the players for the Spring album : Keith Allison & Ray Pohlman (bass), Carl Wilson & Larry Carlton (guitars), Lincoln Mayorga (keyboards), Alan Beutler (horns), Igor Horoshefsky (cello), and John Guerin (drums)....in addition to the two guys you already named.
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Post by jk on Dec 8, 2023 17:24:15 GMT -5
And now for my second question since I never got around to asking it in the first place lol (my bad) Do we happen to know any info about who played on Sweet Mountain? I imagine it was done relatively privately at the home studio, with Brian and David doing it with a saxophone and oboe player helping out. Moog is definitely all over the place from the sound of it. The four posts beginning here are illuminating in that respect. That said, the fact that WillJC deleted his post makes me wonder whether new information has come to light since then...
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Post by AGD on Dec 8, 2023 18:14:48 GMT -5
And now for my second question since I never got around to asking it in the first place lol (my bad) Do we happen to know any info about who played on Sweet Mountain? I imagine it was done relatively privately at the home studio, with Brian and David doing it with a saxophone and oboe player helping out. Moog is definitely all over the place from the sound of it. Specifically THAT song, no. However we do know the players for the Spring album : Keith Allison & Ray Pohlman (bass), Carl Wilson & Larry Carlton (guitars), Lincoln Mayorga (keyboards), Alan Beutler (horns), Igor Horoshefsky (cello), and John Guerin (drums)....in addition to the two guys you already named. Also, according to the 1988 Rhino reissue, David Cohen (guitar), David Hearn*, Kirk Kaufman (guitar)*, Frank Weewol (correctly Wiewel, bass)*, Arnie Bode (drums)* and "Howdy & The Studio Gang". "Howdy" is apparently Keith Brown, a Fort Dodge musician, and along with those noted* doubtless played on the sessions held there in 1973. All were at one time members of local band the Hawks. But, of course, none of them contributed to "Sweet Mountain".
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Post by WillJC on Dec 8, 2023 18:50:58 GMT -5
And now for my second question since I never got around to asking it in the first place lol (my bad) Do we happen to know any info about who played on Sweet Mountain? I imagine it was done relatively privately at the home studio, with Brian and David doing it with a saxophone and oboe player helping out. Moog is definitely all over the place from the sound of it. The four posts beginning here are illuminating in that respect. That said, the fact that WillJC deleted his post makes me wonder whether new information has come to light since then... David told me that the whole track was put together by Brian and Desper (also said by Marilyn in a '72 interview that Brian played all of the instruments), and all he did was to play the Moog bass at Brian's urging - I'm assuming to get David involved in the recording of his own song - which he was nervous about due to lack of familiarity with synthesizers, but Brian encouraged him through it. The sax is probably Allan Beutler and there's seemingly a buried oboe. There were at least two other musicians who played on the album and aren't listed on the sleeve, probably more. Incidentally, the French lyrics were provided by David's wife Lizzie, and the song title came about from more of Brian's fixation on Carol Mountain.
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Post by WillJC on Dec 8, 2023 18:54:59 GMT -5
Specifically THAT song, no. However we do know the players for the Spring album : Keith Allison & Ray Pohlman (bass), Carl Wilson & Larry Carlton (guitars), Lincoln Mayorga (keyboards), Alan Beutler (horns), Igor Horoshefsky (cello), and John Guerin (drums)....in addition to the two guys you already named. Also, according to the 1988 Rhino reissue, David Cohen (guitar), David Hearn*, Kirk Kaufman (guitar)*, Frank Weewol (correctly Wiewel, bass)*, Arnie Bode (drums)* and "Howdy & The Studio Gang". "Howdy" is apparently Keith Brown, a Fort Dodge musician, and along with those noted* doubtless played on the sessions held there in 1973. All were at one time members of local band the Hawks. But, of course, none of them contributed to "Sweet Mountain". Dave Hearn didn't play, but did engineer the first session for Had to Phone Ya, Brian's solo trial run of the studio after getting coaxed out of motel hibernation. The rest of the band featured on Shyin' Away and Snowflakes and took turns engineering, with Bode also adding drums to Phone Ya.
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Post by AGD on Dec 8, 2023 18:57:52 GMT -5
Again, this is my rapidly fading memory... but isn't there a pic of a shirtless David Sandler holding playing a sax? (swift google): dammit, for once I'm right! (Er, unless that's Alan Beutler)...
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Post by nts1drums on Dec 8, 2023 19:16:02 GMT -5
The four posts beginning here are illuminating in that respect. That said, the fact that WillJC deleted his post makes me wonder whether new information has come to light since then... David told me that the whole track was put together by Brian and Desper (also said by Marilyn in a '72 interview that Brian played all of the instruments), and all he did was to play the Moog bass at Brian's urging - I'm assuming to get David involved in the recording of his own song - which he was nervous about due to lack of familiarity with synthesizers, but Brian encouraged him through it. The sax is probably Allan Beutler and there's seemingly a buried oboe. There were at least two other musicians who played on the album and aren't listed on the sleeve, probably more. Incidentally, the French lyrics were provided by David's wife Lizzie, and the song title came about from more of Brian's fixation on Carol Mountain. Ah I see! Lots of fascinating info! So in summary, it’s the following: Brian Wilson - tack piano, Moog (high melody, sound effects) David Sandler - Moog (bass) Stephen W. Desper - Moog (sound effects) Alan Beutler? - tenor saxophone Unknown - oboe (do we know if Brian had contact with an oboe player?) Oh and something that sounds like a guitar but I can’t put a finger on what that is or who played that. Same goes for the block sound, which may be a rhythm king or something else but that too is hard to confirm
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Post by jk on Dec 9, 2023 6:06:37 GMT -5
David told me that the whole track was put together by Brian and Desper (also said by Marilyn in a '72 interview that Brian played all of the instruments), and all he did was to play the Moog bass at Brian's urging - I'm assuming to get David involved in the recording of his own song - which he was nervous about due to lack of familiarity with synthesizers, but Brian encouraged him through it. The sax is probably Allan Beutler and there's seemingly a buried oboe. There were at least two other musicians who played on the album and aren't listed on the sleeve, probably more. Incidentally, the French lyrics were provided by David's wife Lizzie, and the song title came about from more of Brian's fixation on Carol Mountain. Ah I see! Lots of fascinating info! So in summary, it’s the following: Brian Wilson - tack piano, Moog (high melody, sound effects) David Sandler - Moog (bass) Stephen W. Desper - Moog (sound effects) Alan Beutler? - tenor saxophone Unknown - oboe (do we know if Brian had contact with an oboe player?)Oh and something that sounds like a guitar but I can’t put a finger on what that is or who played that. Same goes for the block sound, which may be a rhythm king or something else but that too is hard to confirm I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… PS: While poking around, I noticed the wiki for "ITBOMM" includes "Peter Christ – english horn (uncertain)", when surely it's an oboe? The part in question is way above the upper limit of a Cor Anglais. See Joshilyn's isolation video: Regrettably I can't access the relevant section of Craig's sessionography... * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt Jacobs
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ryankc
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 97
Likes: 175
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Post by ryankc on Dec 9, 2023 20:39:21 GMT -5
Can anyone shed some light on the how and why The Many Moods of Murry Wilson got made? That's always been a curious one to me.
On Wikipedia, Nik Venet says that Capitol made the album to appease Murry so he'd stop pestering them as much about The Beach Boys. I know Murry often gave the suits at Capitol hell when he was the manager, but at this point, he hadn't been their manager for around 3 years. Also, this is all in the same time frame as the collapse of Smile, the decline in hits, Carl's draft protest, and the lawsuit for unpaid royalties. Plus, the style of music on Many Moods was starting to decline in the growing era of psychedelia. People still bought these type of albums, but how many people even knew who Murry Wilson was in 1967? If they want easy listening, there were many more well-known and popular artists than Murry.
So why did Capitol feel, in 1967, to placate Murry? If the band was selling records like 1964, I can understand why they'd be more apt to let Murry have a record. This time frame, though, seems to me to be a period in which The Beach Boys and Murry had very little to bargain with when dealing with Capitol.
Also, how long did it take for the album to get recorded? Did Murry contribute anything musically to this album, like piano? If he didn't contribute anything other than his name and production, it's weird that the album is then credited to just him. What role did Brian have with the making of this album? Did Murry make any of the arrangements?
Any help would be appreciated!
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Post by AGD on Dec 10, 2023 2:07:51 GMT -5
The arrangements are by Don Ralke and apparently "Italia" was produced by an uncredited Brian. Why was it released, or even recorded? I have no idea.
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west
Kahuna
Posts: 110
Likes: 103
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Post by west on Dec 10, 2023 3:04:50 GMT -5
Does the artist or label pay for studio time? I'm guessing if it was Murry's dime, and he wanted to pay for it, then the label might've said 'Go ahead.' But if that isn't the case and Capitol paid for the sessions, then I have no clue why they'd even pick up the phone let alone entertain these ideas of Murry. Especially given the timeline and the lawsuit the boys had just issued against the company.
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Post by WillJC on Dec 10, 2023 5:01:25 GMT -5
The arrangements are by Don Ralke and apparently "Italia" was produced by an uncredited Brian. Why was it released, or even recorded? I have no idea. More of Badman's sermon of lies... Brian's only involvement in that was apparently showing Murry the song which prompted him to record it.
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Post by WillJC on Dec 10, 2023 5:05:39 GMT -5
Ah I see! Lots of fascinating info! So in summary, it’s the following: Brian Wilson - tack piano, Moog (high melody, sound effects) David Sandler - Moog (bass) Stephen W. Desper - Moog (sound effects) Alan Beutler? - tenor saxophone Unknown - oboe (do we know if Brian had contact with an oboe player?)Oh and something that sounds like a guitar but I can’t put a finger on what that is or who played that. Same goes for the block sound, which may be a rhythm king or something else but that too is hard to confirm I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… PS: While poking around, I noticed the wiki for "ITBOMM" includes "Peter Christ – english horn (uncertain)", when surely it's an oboe? The part in question is way above the upper limit of a Cor Anglais. See Joshilyn's isolation video: Regrettably I can't access the relevant section of Craig's sessionography... * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt JacobsIf you opened a union book in LA in 1971 there'd be a lot of people who could play an oboe, I suspect we'll never know unless a search for the AFMs happens (and they've locked down their rules for requests these days). Allan Beutler is the only credited horn player on the sleeve, but I haven't found any evidence that he could play double reeds, only sax, clarinet and flute credits elsewhere. There's a mystery French horn on This Whole World to deal with too. I do know that a friend of David Sandler's, Don Beckwith, played guitar on Now That Everything's Been Said, and Larry Muhoberac played piano on This Whole World, so there are probably some other names that were forgotten about.
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Post by jk on Dec 10, 2023 5:38:04 GMT -5
I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… PS: While poking around, I noticed the wiki for "ITBOMM" includes "Peter Christ – english horn (uncertain)", when surely it's an oboe? The part in question is way above the upper limit of a Cor Anglais. See Joshilyn's isolation video: Regrettably I can't access the relevant section of Craig's sessionography... * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt JacobsIf you opened a union book in LA in 1971 there'd be a lot of people who could play an oboe, I suspect we'll never know unless a search for the AFMs happens (and they've locked down their rules for requests these days). Allan Beutler is the only credited horn player on the sleeve, but I haven't found any evidence that he could play double reeds, only sax, clarinet and flute credits elsewhere. There's a mystery French horn on This Whole World to deal with too. I do know that a friend of David Sandler's, Don Beckwith, played guitar on Now That Everything's Been Said, and Larry Muhoberac played piano on This Whole World, so there are probably some other names that were forgotten about. Thank you! That forthcoming sessionography should be quite something -- and an essential purchase.
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Post by nts1drums on Dec 10, 2023 10:33:46 GMT -5
Ah I see! Lots of fascinating info! So in summary, it’s the following: Brian Wilson - tack piano, Moog (high melody, sound effects) David Sandler - Moog (bass) Stephen W. Desper - Moog (sound effects) Alan Beutler? - tenor saxophone Unknown - oboe (do we know if Brian had contact with an oboe player?)Oh and something that sounds like a guitar but I can’t put a finger on what that is or who played that. Same goes for the block sound, which may be a rhythm king or something else but that too is hard to confirm I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… PS: While poking around, I noticed the wiki for "ITBOMM" includes "Peter Christ – english horn (uncertain)", when surely it's an oboe? The part in question is way above the upper limit of a Cor Anglais. See Joshilyn's isolation video: Regrettably I can't access the relevant section of Craig's sessionography... * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt JacobsIf they’re credited with clavinets that must be a mistake since I don’t think either have been known to play keyboards (I know Gene Estes does tho) In any case any time I try to type clavinet it tries to autocorrect to clarinet XD
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Post by jk on Dec 10, 2023 17:49:42 GMT -5
I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt JacobsIf they’re credited with clavinets that must be a mistake since I don’t think either have been known to play keyboards (I know Gene Estes does tho) In any case any time I try to type clavinet it tries to autocorrect to clarinet XD Either it's a typo or the credits were originally written out by hand or on a dodgy typewriter and were misread. Still, it's most curious that it got carried over to the CD twofer release (the album's wiki gets it right). Here it is on the LP cover:
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Post by nts1drums on Dec 10, 2023 20:56:29 GMT -5
I see multi-reed performer Jules Jacob, who according to Craig's sessionography played oboe on "Let's Go Away For Awhile", also shared clarinet duties * on 15 Big Ones ("It's O.K." and "Had To Phone Ya"). The Spring sessions sit midway between those two, so it might be him… PS: While poking around, I noticed the wiki for "ITBOMM" includes "Peter Christ – english horn (uncertain)", when surely it's an oboe? The part in question is way above the upper limit of a Cor Anglais. See Joshilyn's isolation video: Regrettably I can't access the relevant section of Craig's sessionography... * With Dennis Dreith. Curiously, the album credits have them playing clavinets (or maybe sharing one!) on "It's O.K." and on both occasions Jacob is misspelt JacobsIf you opened a union book in LA in 1971 there'd be a lot of people who could play an oboe, I suspect we'll never know unless a search for the AFMs happens (and they've locked down their rules for requests these days). Allan Beutler is the only credited horn player on the sleeve, but I haven't found any evidence that he could play double reeds, only sax, clarinet and flute credits elsewhere. There's a mystery French horn on This Whole World to deal with too. I do know that a friend of David Sandler's, Don Beckwith, played guitar on Now That Everything's Been Said, and Larry Muhoberac played piano on This Whole World, so there are probably some other names that were forgotten about. I guess the question I have then in regards to Now That Everything's Been Said is this: is the lineup of musicians on that song different from what the album credits for playing show? I imagine being one of the first songs recorded it couldn't have been the same personnel.
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Post by dauber on Dec 11, 2023 17:15:10 GMT -5
Either it's a typo or the credits were originally written out by hand or on a dodgy typewriter and were misread. Still, it's most curious that it got carried over to the CD twofer release (the album's wiki gets it right). Here it is on the LP cover:
(Picture is very pixely but you can still make it out if you zoom in.)
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alankard
Dude/Dudette
Module-Assembly Smile Hobbyist (MASH)
Posts: 52
Likes: 53
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Post by alankard on Dec 11, 2023 20:18:47 GMT -5
Not so much "demand an answer" as "always wondered" but...
Are there any recordings, audio or video, of either Carl or Mike "making it happen" on a song for which he originated both music and lyrics? For Carl, I guess he always worked with a lyricist, but maybe he originated How She Boogalooed It (guessing that either Carl or Bruce did)? Maybe I'm unaware of one Carl alone initiated. Or maybe there's a "Big Sur" demo by Mike in the archives? In any event, just wondering about a demo-type situation like, "Hey guys, here's a song," sung and self-accompanied on guitar or keyboard by the originator. It would be great to learn whether such material is out there, even if it's not generally available.
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Post by boogieboarder on Dec 12, 2023 4:09:11 GMT -5
Can anyone shed some light on the how and why The Many Moods of Murry Wilson got made? That's always been a curious one to me. On Wikipedia, Nik Venet says that Capitol made the album to appease Murry so he'd stop pestering them as much about The Beach Boys. I know Murry often gave the suits at Capitol hell when he was the manager, but at this point, he hadn't been their manager for around 3 years. Also, this is all in the same time frame as the collapse of Smile, the decline in hits, Carl's draft protest, and the lawsuit for unpaid royalties. Plus, the style of music on Many Moods was starting to decline in the growing era of psychedelia. People still bought these type of albums, but how many people even knew who Murry Wilson was in 1967? If they want easy listening, there were many more well-known and popular artists than Murry. So why did Capitol feel, in 1967, to placate Murry? If the band was selling records like 1964, I can understand why they'd be more apt to let Murry have a record. This time frame, though, seems to me to be a period in which The Beach Boys and Murry had very little to bargain with when dealing with Capitol. Also, how long did it take for the album to get recorded? Did Murry contribute anything musically to this album, like piano? If he didn't contribute anything other than his name and production, it's weird that the album is then credited to just him. What role did Brian have with the making of this album? Did Murry make any of the arrangements? Any help would be appreciated! Also in the same Wikipedia entry there’s a quote from Murry (referenced from the Gaines book) which I find extremely laughable: “With [my] LP I'm going to nudge my boys' competitive spirit."
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Post by nts1drums on Dec 14, 2023 9:38:08 GMT -5
Got myself another question about a lovely outtake:
Bro their cover of Michael Row the Boat Ashore is so fire bro 🔥 Is there any interesting information about that cover?
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Post by AGD on Dec 14, 2023 10:07:10 GMT -5
Recorded April 16th & 29th 1976 during the 15 Big Ones sessions, included on the unreleased 1978 album Merry Christmas From The Beach Boys.
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