|
Post by AGD on Nov 2, 2023 13:32:10 GMT -5
Just heard it. Colour me completely underwhelmed. George was right.
|
|
|
Post by newbbfan on Nov 2, 2023 20:26:58 GMT -5
That you can put on a song that has John Paul George and Ringo on it is itself wonderful but I agree with Andrew in the sense that John was just not writing spectacular material at that time in the Dakota and there's no bass part or slide guitar or vocals or drum fill that can turn it into a great great song worthy of the beatles. But I'm listening to a constantly and trying to enjoy it as much as I can. What exactly did George do here, as it seems like there might be some Rhythm acoustic guitar. Why didn't they use George's slide guitar and why did Paul do a new part in Imitation of george, does anyone know?
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Nov 2, 2023 20:33:48 GMT -5
What exactly did George do here, as it seems like there might be some Rhythm acoustic guitar. Why didn't they use George's slide guitar and why did Paul do a new part in Imitation of george, does anyone know?
Yeah, George only did rhythm guitar; he didn't do lead. (Paul did the slide guitar in honor of George.) They pretty much laid down a backing track before George called it "rubbish" because the sound quality of the tape wasn't good and they couldn't do anything with the piano.
As for my thoughts...
I wasn't exactly overwhelmed -- but then again, I wasn't when I first heard "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love," either; maybe it's because I know it's not a true 100% real Beatles recording. But also because, well, "Now and Then" isn't one of Lennon's best works. I mean, as far as we know, he never went back to do any further work on it -- it wasn't on Double Fantasy or Milk and Honey. (At least there were multiple versions of "Real Love" in the Lennon archive, so we know he really wanted to do something with *that* particular song.)
Productionwise, well...definitely the best of the three post-mortem songs, thanks to Peter Jackson's technology. When you listen to the low-fi original demo and then hear John's voice post-Peter Jackson all by itself (which you too can experience if you watch the 12-minute video released yesterday!), it's absolutely stunning how the MAL software was able to take a crappy home recording done on a Sony boom box and make the piano and the vocal both sound studio-quality. It sure beats the hell out of the constant fading-in and fading-out of the respective demos on "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love." I truly hope they go back and give Lennon's vocals on each the same treatment; one of the reasons I generally don't listen to those songs is that said fading really is distracting.
Now, supposedly some vocals from "Here, There and Everywhere" were flown in. (Source: McCartney himself.) To be honest, I cannot hear them anywhere. I do hear a bit of three-part harmony in the song that sounds vintage but it certainly doesn't sound like HT&E -- maybe "Because"? Whatever the case, it was surprisingly very effective -- I was expecting it to be too obviously flown in, but...it's not!
Now...SHOULD this have been done? That's not up to me to decide. It's up to the remaining Beatles and the estates of messrs Harrison and Lennon, and they gave it the go-ahead. Yes, the shortly-before-Christmas timing is a bit suspicious, but that's...pretty much industry standard, get a product out in time for the Christmas shopping season, and it's by far not the first time that was done for a Beatles product -- that practice has been going on since the band was all alive and together back in the old days.
Did I like the finished "Now and Then" when I heard it? No -- that is, not the first time. But when I gave it a second listen, I...got it. Not like the "I got it" the second time I listened to Pet Sounds on Christmas Eve 1990, but I got it. (Speaking of which, my first thought when hearing the piano was that it had a "Caroline, No" vibe.) It all came together for me. It made sense. And I was glad the recording had been done.
Now, for the B-side, "Love Me Do." Despite what the labeling on Apple Music apparently says (I went to YouTube instead), this is indeed the "de-mixed" stereo version, original 1962 single version as recorded on September 4, 1962, with Ringo on drums. (I don't care what anybody says, that version is far superior to the more common September 11 version with Andy White on drums.) Because the session tapes were destroyed or re-used after the master was made -- and in fact the actual master tape was destroyed when the folks at EMI decreed that only the Andy White version should ever be used again -- any instance we hear of the Ringo version comes from a vintage single from, depending on what you're listening to, either Parlophone or Capitol of Canada. Unfortunately, it's painfully obvious that it comes from a record because some flutter and wow is very detectable.
The new stereo "Love Me Do" also is underwhelming -- but simply because, well, "Love Me Do" isn't the most brilliant song in the world. Productionwise...well, it is cool to hear it in stereo. It's not *perfect* stereo, but it sure beats that terrible high/low fake stereo that most labels were using back in the day, and it's also better than that echo-delay "Duophonic" that Capitol would use way back then. And it absolutely beats the hell out of that godawful "extraction mix" technique that has been used on Beach Boys recordings of late. I mean, there's actual separation that doesn't wear out the tympanic membranes or make the ear wax run. The bass comes booming out of the left speaker (leaking into the right) along with the wailing harmonica (also leaking to the right), with George Harrison's acoustic guitar off to the right, with Ringo's drums centered. The handclaps in the instrumental break are panned about 99% to the right.
I was hoping for a bit more separation, but I don't know how much was doable, given that the MAL software had to look at literally one single channel of music and try to pick apart Paul's voice, John's voice, Ringo's drums, George's guitar, Paul's bass, John's harmonica, and the handclaps. I can't imagine with all that going on, MAL was able to get 100% clean separations. But it's still nice to hear this rather bland song sound a bit clearer.
Despite not being really overwhelmed with either side of this single, I'm still champing at the bit waiting for my blue vinyl copy to arrive, which I'll happily put on the turntable and give some spins.
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Nov 2, 2023 20:42:55 GMT -5
Listened to it this morning and it ain't bad. I went into it with somewhat low expectations. After repeated listens, I will probably warm up to it. This has been on a few boots before, albeit in inferior condition. I think it would be worthy of inclusion on Anthology 3 today, but in 1995 probably not. Only took one Beatle to veto it so it wasn't released. I think George didn't like the song in the first place, never mind the quality of the tape after he played on it. I think they should go back and use this same technology on "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love". I'd love to hear the improvement of those two songs, in particular Lennon's vocal of course.
Here's something I found on Macca's site today that's interesting:
REGARDING NOW AND THEN THE LAST MELODY OF THE BEATLES
"I decided to explain this fact because I've been reading all kinds of nonsense and a lot of people are going crazy saying, "Oh my God! They're going to recreate John's voice!"
In 1994, during John Lennon's induction ceremony into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, conducted by Paul McCartney, Yoko handed to him a cassette tape with four songs: "Free As a Bird", " Real Love", which were worked on and released as singles in 1995 and 1996. The other songs, such as "Grow Old With Me", were banned because they were not new songs by John, as they had been released on John's posthumous album of 1984, "Milk and Honey", exactly like demos. The fourth song, "Now and Then", which was to be the third single from Anthology Volume 3, was vetoed by George Harrison because he did not like the quality, the song or the audio.
That's probably was the song which Paul talked about today on the BBC, where John recorded it in 1978 using a cassette recorder while playing the piano or another instrument. During the Anthology era, they used the recordings from that cassette with John playing the piano, like on "Real Love", which was the most difficult, since it was just a recording so as not to forget the melody, and John sang and played at his own pace. whim, out of tone and rhythm. They couldn't just use John's voice because the piano was included.
Nowadays with the help of artificial intelligence (AI), the program recognized the piano and a voice in the recording, and eliminated ONLY John's voice and then place it in the PROTOOLS, which is a computer program that simulates a recording table. They will open a channel to add that John voice and then other musicians will add instruments, effects, choruses and even enhance and maybe correct John's voice.** So nothing of John could be recreated, only his voice was removed, without the piano or other instrument from that cassette tape, as Peter Jackson did with the "The Beatles Get Back" project, where each microphone captured more than one thing."
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Nov 3, 2023 0:26:48 GMT -5
I like it. It's just that final missing piece to me on top of the previous two efforts. I'm fascinated by the whole process of it from a production stand point and it's finished incarnation. Beatles.com was practically 'sold out' on pre-orders within 24 hours, so those who wanted that special 'whizz bang' version/edition, have missed out and will now have to pay the big bucks to some chum on eBay looking to make a dollar. And a dollar or two he will make! I preordered a couple of 45's and the CD single. Some of the other items like the cassette and 12" vinyl versions were pretty pricey, but it hasn't stopped them from selling out. They'd be nice to have, but I'll settle for less. Not particularly overwhelmed by the artwork, it's a bit of a 'throwaway' and think they could have come up with something better. Considering the single is to be featured on the 'Red/Blue' reissues, a cover based on something like this may have been more fitting? 'Love Me Do' as a B-side is a boring move to me, I would have even preferred an instrumental version of the new song or some alternate mix. Oh well, I'll get over it. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
|
|
|
Post by Mikie on Nov 3, 2023 0:29:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Nov 3, 2023 1:03:30 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Nov 3, 2023 3:18:20 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. A thought: Maybe they should have? Last song from The Beach Boys sounds better than Al Jardine reunited with surviving members of The Beach Boys....
|
|
|
Post by Rick Bartlett on Nov 3, 2023 3:21:36 GMT -5
Ah yes, but we should be concerned about 'Climate Change' and looking towards the future...
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Nov 3, 2023 4:27:07 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. A thought: Maybe they should have? Last song from The Beach Boys sounds better than Al Jardine reunited with surviving members of The Beach Boys.... ... and Carl.
|
|
|
Post by Cam Mott on Nov 3, 2023 9:18:52 GMT -5
I was not overwhelmed, yet I cried. I like it more with more listens.
It sounds old, the way a beloved geriateric band's new material would, which makes it more authenticy.
Probably.
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Nov 3, 2023 9:29:40 GMT -5
The video reduced me to tears. It was the shot of the "Hello Goodbye" Beatles in the studio with Paul and Ringo that did it for me.
|
|
|
Post by dauber on Nov 3, 2023 9:32:04 GMT -5
Considering the single is to be featured on the 'Red/Blue' reissues, a cover based on something like this may have been more fitting? Maybe something like this?
'Love Me Do' as a B-side is a boring move to me, I would have even preferred an instrumental version of the new song or some alternate mix.
Pretty sure the point was to basically present the two sides as "now and then" as in bookends: their last single on one side, the first on the other.
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 3, 2023 13:51:52 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions, and YSAM uses a lead vocal recorded years later, post Carl’s death. Not to mention, the other had already come out as a Brian Wilson solo track. Much like with the Beatles, I think it’s almost a pointless conversation to have if they are “real” Beach Boys or Beatles songs. At the end of the day, these groups aren’t really bands, they’re businesses. And they’ve been businesses for decades. “Now & Then”, for better or for worse, was released under the brand “The Beatles”. It’s a “Beatles” song because that’s literally how it was released. It will, for the foreseeable future, be present on a compilation alongside other Beatles songs, again for better, or for worse. Also, while don’t fight the sea isn’t a beach boys song, it did come out on streaming services with the labeling “Don't Fight The Sea (feat. Carl Wilson & The Beach Boys)”, so it’s not * entirely* separated. Someone did have to allow that, of course.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Nov 3, 2023 14:43:16 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions, and YSAM uses a lead vocal recorded years later, post Carl’s death. That's because when they were originally recorded, all the band members were in the studio at the same time: a legit BB session. And it shows.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Nov 3, 2023 16:27:21 GMT -5
The video is considerably better than the song.
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 3, 2023 17:10:29 GMT -5
No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions, and YSAM uses a lead vocal recorded years later, post Carl’s death. That's because when they were originally recorded, all the band members were in the studio at the same time: a legit BB session. And it shows. sorta kinda. But Dennis certainly wasn’t there, and Carl certainly didn’t know that his Soul Searchin’ lead vocal would be synchronized to a totally different backing track years later. And when it was, he wasn’t there to approve it. If the track was issued exactly as recorded in 1995, then sure. Likewise, George Harrison’s 1995 rhythm guitar tracks were surrounded by a bunch of overdubs done decades after. I don’t understand how these situations are that different.
|
|
|
Post by newbbfan on Nov 3, 2023 17:25:29 GMT -5
Well the video is a total flop obviously cuz there's only 5 million views as of today.
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Nov 3, 2023 18:39:26 GMT -5
That's because when they were originally recorded, all the band members were in the studio at the same time: a legit BB session. And it shows. sorta kinda. But Dennis certainly wasn’t there, and Carl certainly didn’t know that his Soul Searchin’ lead vocal would be synchronized to a totally different backing track years later. And when it was, he wasn’t there to approve it. If the track was issued exactly as recorded in 1995, then sure. Likewise, George Harrison’s 1995 rhythm guitar tracks were surrounded by a bunch of overdubs done decades after. I don’t understand how these situations are that different. Carl's voice coming through the speakers was unexpected and amazing. Same with Don't Fight the Sea. I suppose this Beatles one was buffed up with video and lots of footage and that is what could distinguish it. Although the premise is the same. To get tracks out there to the public. It was emotional to watch. John and Dennis were around the same 40-ish ages as well, but shocking, where George's and Carl's passing was not completely unexpected. Still a nice tribute. Bittersweet. 🙏🏻
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Nov 3, 2023 18:57:03 GMT -5
Unnecessary in my book - the previous attempt of completing a meh song now polished to an acceptable level.
A minor improvement on the irritating Real Love, but no shade on the passable Free As A Bird, itself no shade on the original run that finished 1 note short at the end of Abbey Road side 2.
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Nov 3, 2023 21:27:48 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions... There it is! Carl was the George of the Beach Boys!
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 4, 2023 7:10:51 GMT -5
No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions... There it is! Carl was the George of the Beach Boys! you joke, but it’s probably true. I believe (besides Mike’s liner notes issue) Carl was the most hesitant about doing a pet sounds stereo remix, and he was responsible for vetoing “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” off of the 93 Good Vibrations box. Likewise, George is the one known for vetoing several tracks off of the anthology series, including “Now & Then” and the infamous and probably terrible “Carnival of Light”. Totally unrelated, both Carl and George worked with Tom Petty on music in the 90s.
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Nov 4, 2023 8:13:58 GMT -5
Dennis could have written this, very simple song.
|
|
|
Post by AGD on Nov 4, 2023 8:44:43 GMT -5
Check this out: eight minutes of your time well spent, and his conclusion is fascinating:
|
|
|
Post by filledeplage on Nov 4, 2023 10:20:48 GMT -5
Check this out: eight minutes of your time well spent, and his conclusion is fascinating: It is interesting the way he separates it. But the genie is out of the bottle with this technology. The question could become how close to authenticity can it be made. Ringo looked very somber. It evokes the great loss that band felt not unlike the BBs. But after seeing what legal people had to say about the breakup and some of the publishing rights going back to a bar owner, and other external legal forces, the breakup of the band, the subsequent band split offs, the post-mortem press became a soap opera and the music kind of got lost in the media shuffle. I think the real value is in the education component so it can take its rightful place in music curriculum. Thank you, Andrew, that was a very good video.
|
|