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Post by newbbfan on Nov 4, 2023 10:50:34 GMT -5
Yes what he says I supposed is self-evident when you have music recorded decades and decades after the vocal component.
But with all the commentary and pundits I just decided to listen to the song about 10 times on my good speakers while driving to the beach in LA and thinking about the Beatles and thinking about growing up with them Moment by moment in the sixties...
, my current feeling is that the song is absolutely beautiful, far better than free as a bird or real love, and much more poignant than I could have expected each and every time I listen to it.
I believe it could win a Grammy for a song of the year and deservedly so. I think what contributes to it is some of those minor chords that John put in and the lovely way that George is strumming throughout the song. I think Paul and Ringo play with tremendous urgency and intensity and purpose the way that only a surviving Beatle could. It's got to be one of the better John songs from that era, and he's singing in a very beautiful and emotional way.
What is he talking about, his wife or his children or his bandmates? The very beauty of the ambiguity of any composition is that it can apply to so many situations, and I'm sure each of us I'm thinking of the person in our life that we think about now and then. Again, updating my initial reaction to say that I'm loving it profoundly right now.
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 4, 2023 11:14:47 GMT -5
A thought: did they market "Don't Fight The Sea" as a Beach Boys song? Nope. No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions, and YSAM uses a lead vocal recorded years later, post Carl’s death. Not to mention, the other had already come out as a Brian Wilson solo track. Much like with the Beatles, I think it’s almost a pointless conversation to have if they are “real” Beach Boys or Beatles songs. At the end of the day, these groups aren’t really bands, they’re businesses. And they’ve been businesses for decades. “Now & Then”, for better or for worse, was released under the brand “The Beatles”. It’s a “Beatles” song because that’s literally how it was released. It will, for the foreseeable future, be present on a compilation alongside other Beatles songs, again for better, or for worse. Also, while don’t fight the sea isn’t a beach boys song, it did come out on streaming services with the labeling “Don't Fight The Sea (feat. Carl Wilson & The Beach Boys)”, so it’s not * entirely* separated. Someone did have to allow that, of course. Don’t fight the Sea of Tunes. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 4, 2023 11:20:44 GMT -5
No, but they did market Soul Searchin’ and You’re Still a Mystery as Beach Boys songs, despite the fact that Carl walked out of the sessions, and YSAM uses a lead vocal recorded years later, post Carl’s death. That's because when they were originally recorded, all the band members were in the studio at the same time: a legit BB session. And it shows. I believe both those songs were intended to be Beach Boys songs on a Beach Boys album. Wasn’t the deal that Brian would work with the band on Stars and Stripes, Vol. 1, and the band would record an album with Brian as The Beach Boys on the Andy Paley songs? Then Carl reneged after Brian did Stars and Stripes. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 4, 2023 11:33:53 GMT -5
… Here's something I found on Macca's site today that's interesting: REGARDING NOW AND THEN THE LAST MELODY OF THE BEATLES "I decided to explain this fact because I've been reading all kinds of nonsense and a lot of people are going crazy saying, "Oh my God! They're going to recreate John's voice!" In 1994, during John Lennon's induction ceremony into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, conducted by Paul McCartney, Yoko handed to him a cassette tape with four songs: "Free As a Bird", " Real Love", which were worked on and released as singles in 1995 and 1996. The other songs, such as "Grow Old With Me", were banned because they were not new songs by John, as they had been released on John's posthumous album of 1984, "Milk and Honey", exactly like demos. Ha, ha! The joke’s on Paul. At the time of Anthology, Lennon’s demo of “Real Love” had already been officially released in 1988 as the opening song on Imagine: John Lennon movie soundtrack album. |
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Post by newbbfan on Nov 4, 2023 11:51:08 GMT -5
The YouTube video for now and then has nearly 13 million views, which is almost as much as don't fight the sea. Pretty clear which band is better organized..
Standing on the water break at Redondo Beach where Mike and Dennis used to fish , memories that Mike often talks about as indicative of his closeness with Dennis and their mutual love of nature.
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 5, 2023 1:33:08 GMT -5
I don't think it's possible for any record to equal the impact that Free As a Bird had on me. At the time, my girlfriend was a Beatles obsessive, so this was a moment we shared together, seeing it on prime time tv on a Sunday night; the next night, I went to Borders to get the first Anthology album. The Beatles were everywhere that week, it gave this second generation fan a taste of what Beatlemania had been like. Real Love didn't hit me quite the same way, but it was nice to have. That's the one I would really like to hear them do an Al mix of. The ghostly sound of John's voice on FAAB kind of enhanced it; on Real Love, with John singing lead all the way through, the poor quality of the original recording was more of an issue.
Now and Then is nice, it's a gift, and we'll probably have all forgotten about it in another year, unless we get more Al Beatles releases.
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barto2
Grommet
Posts: 30
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Post by barto2 on Nov 5, 2023 7:59:00 GMT -5
Bit of a tangent but several years ago I made a 'what if in an alternate universe the Beatles had reunited in 1980ish and put out an album' playlist and I enjoy going back to it now and then. Tried to do a bit of a 'closing suite' from Starting Over to Tug of War
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 5, 2023 9:36:50 GMT -5
Pretty clear which band is better organized.. speaking of that, I’m surprised there hasn’t been much talk about this… Given that literally all they had to work with was a 61 year old mono needle drop, I think this MAL stereo mix sounds absolutely incredible. Meanwhile: … still sounds as bad as it did last year, just slightly more embarrassing now that the masters have shown them how it’s done. |
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Post by Mopp on Nov 5, 2023 11:31:43 GMT -5
There it is! Carl was the George of the Beach Boys! Likewise, George is the one known for vetoing several tracks off of the anthology series, including “Now & Then” and the infamous and probably terrible “Carnival of Light”. Not to mention the unnecessary trimming of You Know My Name's stereo mix, which is an act so minor I can only attribute it to pettiness. Actually I'm surprised Giles didn't include a new mix of the untrimmed track on the Let it Be box set some years back. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 5, 2023 13:14:37 GMT -5
Likewise, George is the one known for vetoing several tracks off of the anthology series, including “Now & Then” and the infamous and probably terrible “Carnival of Light”. Not to mention the unnecessary trimming of You Know My Name's stereo mix, which is an act so minor I can only attribute it to pettiness. Actually I'm surprised Giles didn't include a new mix of the untrimmed track on the Let it Be box set some years back. obviously saving it for the expanded anthologies that’ll be released eventually. I mean… It’s inevitable, where else is there to go? |
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Post by lonelysummer on Nov 5, 2023 14:31:55 GMT -5
Not to mention the unnecessary trimming of You Know My Name's stereo mix, which is an act so minor I can only attribute it to pettiness. Actually I'm surprised Giles didn't include a new mix of the untrimmed track on the Let it Be box set some years back. obviously saving it for the expanded anthologies that’ll be released eventually. I mean… It’s inevitable, where else is there to go? 2025 - 60th anniversary Rubber Soul box set or 30th anniversary Anthology DVD/BluRay/GreenDave/Vinyls/Downloads/Streams? |
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Post by Awesoman on Nov 6, 2023 18:09:04 GMT -5
"Now And Then" pretty much met my expectations: pretty middle of the road. This is too cobbled together to be authentic especially when an aging McCartney and Starr are handling backing vocals and McCartney is the one on slide guitar due to Harrison's rather negligible contributions to the song. I kind of liked Peter Jackson's accompanied music video for it though.
However I am more impressed with the technology used to split Lennon’s vocals from the piano in the ragged tape recording. Could we *please* try implementing that technology on "Good Vibrations" and "I Get Around"...?
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 6, 2023 20:17:45 GMT -5
si=EedFySCb47Toizov
What impressed me is that Paul seems to have made peace with those turbulent times and it is wonderful to me. He's not lost his enthusiasm but has enormous perspective on the past. Lovely interview.
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 7, 2023 0:45:18 GMT -5
Really glad to see Beach boys fans (mostly) enjoying the new song! Its Number 1 in the UK. Surreal! The Beatles are my life's greatest hobby, and...Listen man, you have to know what its like hearing this as a Beatles Mega-nerd. This is everything I dreamed about since I was back in the mid 2000's hearing the demo for the first time. It's brilliant and exactly how I wanted it to sound all those years ago. I know being fans of a different band, you guys won't likely "Get" it, but its not about how the song measures up to John's writing. It NEVER had to be the "Best" Beatles song, It's still lovely, and deserving of being the final send-off! As far as it being "Cobbled" together...Nah. Absolutely not. All four are on it, all four worked on it and material from all four was made specifically for this track. It is no more or less a Beatles song than any White Album track, which had multiple songs done without all four in the studio at once. Paul and Ringo's age have nothing to do with it. If anything, It gives nuance to the song where originally there wasn't. The title "Now And Then" means so much more in this new context, and Beatles fans largely agree! I am a member of multiple Beatles communities both forum and Discord based, and we all can't stop crying. We never thought this would happen and we're all riding SUCH a wave right now! (Surf pun intended!  ) Mr. Beato is entitled to his opinion, but if I may offer a pure Beatle fan perspective, Elliot Roberts explains it beautifully: I know many of you just won't see it the same way, but this week has been an actual dream come true. Not only is there a completed version of a demo I've longed to see finished since i was a teen, and not only is it a massive hit with millions of views in less than a week, trending everywhere - not only is it on the cutting edge of technology - not only does it have a badass music video - but you're telling me the FINAL Beatles song is a number 1?! AND it even overshadowed the thing the Stones put out, as is Beatles tradition?! 😛 I AM LIVING THE DREAM! Ok, all joking aside here: I know I sound silly, but im begging you to believe me: If you could bottle the feelings i have felt this week and sell them, you'd be very rich. I cannot put into words how happy I truly am and though this song may seem "Mid" to some of you, I only hope that maybe reading this lets some of that happiness wear off on you so that you may enjoy it even just a little bit more. I'm truly glad I was alive to appreciate this. I'm so obsessed with it (and the video) that i need to pause working on my SMiLE mix just so i can savor it. Thank you John, Paul, George and Ringo. I owe you more than you'll ever know for all the joy you've given me. |
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 7, 2023 1:13:42 GMT -5
I will say that I think i detect some slight malice in the thread title and it's rather unpleasant of the OP IMHO. There's no need for that. It IS a new and Official Beatles song and deserves to be treated as such, even if some may not like it. Just my opinion. Peace and Love.
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 7, 2023 1:25:20 GMT -5
When this beautiful song becomes number one in the USA next week or thereabouts, how are The Beach Boys going to respond? Don't. Don't do that. I'm in my feelings about the song enough and am already being bullied by Stones fans claiming their song is "Better" - lets not get this forum angry with us too. It already seems like some here really don't like it and we don't need to add to that with tribalism. |
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 7, 2023 9:28:45 GMT -5
When this beautiful song becomes number one in the USA next week or thereabouts, how are The Beach Boys going to respond? Don't. Don't do that. I'm in my feelings about the song enough and am already being bullied by Stones fans claiming their song is "Better" - let's not get this forum angry with us too. It already seems like some here really don't like it and we don't need to add to that with tribalism. It is irrelevant. On some level I think they celebrated and enjoyed each others' milestones. I really like it and I'm a proud member of the 🏄♂️ tribe. But, it is all part of the dynamic of the 60s, that becomes ingrained in your whole dynamic. You can't ignore it. The song itself evokes the past and the present, when we take attendance of those we all love and are gone but whose work can endure. It is not hostile. A lot of this music started off as fragments which were built upon. I like their work ethic where they see things that maybe were not apparent when recorded and take a fresh approach to adaptation for everyone to enjoy. |
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Post by newbbfan on Nov 7, 2023 10:54:19 GMT -5
Yes, I'm talking about Mutual admiration and inspiration, which is not tribalism. The bands themselves always talk about how they influence by creating new musical possibilities with joy. So I was just wondering if the Beach Boys would try to do something inspired by the Beatles accomplishment.
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 7, 2023 11:31:25 GMT -5
Yes, I'm talking about Mutual admiration and inspiration, which is not tribalism. The bands themselves always talk about how they influence by creating new musical possibilities with joy. So I was just wondering if the Beach Boys would try to do something inspired by the Beatles accomplishment. The rivalry was largely an outgrowth of record company (and other) narratives coupled with super promotion for the Fab 4 and not for the BBs. |
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 7, 2023 14:45:13 GMT -5
Yes, I'm talking about Mutual admiration and inspiration, which is not tribalism. The bands themselves always talk about how they influence by creating new musical possibilities with joy. So I was just wondering if the Beach Boys would try to do something inspired by the Beatles accomplishment. Oh, absolutely if Brian was young and full of fire (ha, another pun) He would no doubt be ringing up Paul asking "Let me borrow the MAL machine, NOW!" - I can think of plenty of BB tracks they could remix with it, even from SMiLE! Still not sure anything can save "Kokomo" though. It's already DOA.  |
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 7, 2023 14:46:31 GMT -5
Yes, I'm talking about Mutual admiration and inspiration, which is not tribalism. The bands themselves always talk about how they influence by creating new musical possibilities with joy. So I was just wondering if the Beach Boys would try to do something inspired by the Beatles accomplishment. The rivalry was largely an outgrowth of record company (and other) narratives coupled with super promotion for the Fab 4 and not for the BBs. That, and Brian already foresaw that they were the band to beat even before that. |
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 7, 2023 16:53:01 GMT -5
The rivalry was largely an outgrowth of record company (and other) narratives coupled with super promotion for the Fab 4 and not for the BBs. That, and Brian already foresaw that they were the band to beat even before that. The Beach Boys already were successful before the Beatles came to the States. So they pre-dated the Fab 4 in the US in early '64 right after the assassination of JFK. By that time the BBs already had almost a half dozen LPs out there and carved out their genre. Yes, they (Beatles) were, in their own space, pretty successful quickly in the US. Add the Stones (who I've learned who were mentored in a sense by the Beatles) for a trifecta of music and competition. Very interesting time to be a bystander and watch it all unfold. I think they all respect one another. |
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Post by mattonwheels on Nov 8, 2023 3:08:42 GMT -5
That, and Brian already foresaw that they were the band to beat even before that. The Beach Boys already were successful before the Beatles came to the States. So they pre-dated the Fab 4 in the US in early '64 right after the assassination of JFK. By that time the BBs already had almost a half dozen LPs out there and carved out their genre. Yes, they (Beatles) were, in their own space, pretty successful quickly in the US. Add the Stones (who I've learned who were mentored in a sense by the Beatles) for a trifecta of music and competition. Very interesting time to be a bystander and watch it all unfold. I think they all respect one another. When The Beatles arrived Brian knew they were the future. He's gone on record saying this. He always had his finger on the pulse of music back then and The Beatles were the greatest example. Meanwhile, the Stones were not "Mentored" by The Beatles. That was Badfinger. They let the Stones have a bone with one of their songs in "I Wanna Be Your Man" which they made into their first hit - a formula which they would repeat all the way up through "Their Satanic Majesty's Request" even if unintentionally. The Beatles and The Stones have both pointed this out over the years, and...yeah, some of it is more blatant than others. There's a well known quote: "They both did drugs trying to come up with ideas, but the difference with The Beatles is...it worked." LMAO. The Beatles respected the BB's way more than the Stones and Beatles respected each other in the early 70's at least. Some of the stuff both bands said about each other is...nasty. |
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Post by filledeplage on Nov 8, 2023 5:30:37 GMT -5
The Beach Boys already were successful before the Beatles came to the States. So they pre-dated the Fab 4 in the US in early '64 right after the assassination of JFK. By that time the BBs already had almost a half dozen LPs out there and carved out their genre. Yes, they (Beatles) were, in their own space, pretty successful quickly in the US. Add the Stones (who I've learned who were mentored in a sense by the Beatles) for a trifecta of music and competition. Very interesting time to be a bystander and watch it all unfold. I think they all respect one another. When The Beatles arrived Brian knew they were the future. He's gone on record saying this. He always had his finger on the pulse of music back then and The Beatles were the greatest example. Meanwhile, the Stones were not "Mentored" by The Beatles. That was Badfinger. They let the Stones have a bone with one of their songs in "I Wanna Be Your Man" which they made into their first hit - a formula which they would repeat all the way up through "Their Satanic Majesty's Request" even if unintentionally. The Beatles and The Stones have both pointed this out over the years, and...yeah, some of it is more blatant than others. There's a well known quote: "They both did drugs trying to come up with ideas, but the difference with The Beatles is...it worked." LMAO. The Beatles respected the BB's way more than the Stones and Beatles respected each other in the early 70's at least. Some of the stuff both bands said about each other is...nasty. |
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 8, 2023 11:31:42 GMT -5
Yes, I'm talking about Mutual admiration and inspiration, which is not tribalism. The bands themselves always talk about how they influence by creating new musical possibilities with joy. So I was just wondering if the Beach Boys would try to do something inspired by the Beatles accomplishment. Oh, absolutely if Brian was young and full of fire (ha, another pun) He would no doubt be ringing up Paul asking "Let me borrow the MAL machine, NOW!" - I can think of plenty of BB tracks they could remix with it, even from SMiLE! Still not sure anything can save "Kokomo" though. It's already DOA. Huh? Brian mixed in mono deliberately in the 60s, and had stated that he doesn’t like people being able to hear the mixes differently depending on speaker placement. If anything, Brian would use MAL to create new mono mixes from songs only available in stereo. |
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