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Post by jk on May 29, 2023 3:23:11 GMT -5
Two more heroines: Virginia Jardine and Dorinda Morgan.
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Post by E on May 29, 2023 3:32:34 GMT -5
Marilyn Wilson Rutherford is about as heroic as it gets. She might not be perfect, but she is pretty close. She remains one of Brian Wilson's greatest champions. What a hero!
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Post by AGD on May 29, 2023 5:26:53 GMT -5
Many would put Loren Daro firmly in the villainous category, which is understandable. The glee in which he recounts the story of Brian's first trip is an uncomfortable moment in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary. Personally I think his laughter is affectionate. Brian's eccentricity is part of what we all love about him, despite the fact it was often a manifestation of his mental health condition. People just didn't know how dangerous psychedelics were back then, and Loren couldn't possibly have known what hellish doors he was opening by supplying Brian with the drug. And if it hadn't been Loren, it would have almost certainly been someone else. A little contrition in the documentary would have been apt, but we don't know what may have been edited out. It doesn't come across well as it stands. I know he was attacked online about it and got very defensive. I'm on the fence with this one. I believe that was in fact his defence when pressed. Specious in the extreme, of course.
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Post by AGD on May 29, 2023 5:27:25 GMT -5
Fred Vail.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 29, 2023 6:18:38 GMT -5
Many would put Loren Daro firmly in the villainous category, which is understandable. The glee in which he recounts the story of Brian's first trip is an uncomfortable moment in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary. Personally I think his laughter is affectionate. Brian's eccentricity is part of what we all love about him, despite the fact it was often a manifestation of his mental health condition. People just didn't know how dangerous psychedelics were back then, and Loren couldn't possibly have known what hellish doors he was opening by supplying Brian with the drug. And if it hadn't been Loren, it would have almost certainly been someone else. A little contrition in the documentary would have been apt, but we don't know what may have been edited out. It doesn't come across well as it stands. I know he was attacked online about it and got very defensive. I'm on the fence with this one. I believe that was in fact his defence when pressed. Specious in the extreme, of course. Playing devils advocate, because I tend to agree with the consensus, but maybe he thought if Brian was going to do it, he would be be safe under his, (Loren's) guidance rather than someone else's. Perhaps he misguidingly thought he was acting with Brian's best interest. This proved to be woefully wrong. Unlike Landy though, Loren's actions were not malign. As for his lack of contrition, I think he doubled down after getting online criticism. Having taken acid myself, I live with both positive and negative repercussions to this day. I don't blame the people who encouraged me to do it though as, like Brian, it was my choice. It would be a very different story if Loren had spiked him (as is what happened to Lennon and Harrison) As you alluded to yourself, these things are nearly always nuanced.
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Post by Emdeeh on May 29, 2023 8:21:57 GMT -5
Heroine: Diane Sawyer, for exposing Landy's exploitation of Brian in a very public forum.
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west
Kahuna
Posts: 107
Likes: 96
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Post by west on May 29, 2023 8:58:09 GMT -5
How about 1966's Best of the Beach Boys album for villain? I mean really, instead of promoting Pet Sounds, we get 'Louie Louie' taking it's place in the charts??
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Post by usawoman on May 29, 2023 9:42:55 GMT -5
Hi all,
Happy Memorial Day!!! I do have that book. It shows us how every family is in real life. Marilyn did help Brian. The books shows the human side of all of the Beach Boys and their families. I do believe Murray loved his family. He was just a man of his generation. Also, he was raised by a horrid man. I liked learning about the tours. Like all people, Brian did some questionable things. We love him due to his talent. This book is a most read for fans of The Beach Boys.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 29, 2023 10:06:32 GMT -5
How about 1966's Best of the Beach Boys album for villain? I mean really, instead of promoting Pet Sounds, we get 'Louie Louie' taking its place in the charts?? I remember reading that when record stores ordered more copies of Pet Sounds, the distributors substituted Best of The Beach Boys in its place.
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Post by Cam Mott on May 29, 2023 10:34:29 GMT -5
Maybe that happened in some isolated case but PS was on its way up the charts when BotBB was released and that after a #6 previous album and popular singles. Capitol had no reason to hamstring PS and I think their promotion of the album also puts that to rest.
Also, a best of album was not some show of a lack of faith in the group, it was part of a program of Capitol promotion of several popular groups including the Beatles.
Fans lack of interest doesn't have to be somebody's else's fault.
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Post by Mikie on May 29, 2023 10:42:46 GMT -5
No heroes, no villains. Just... people. OK, Landy turned out to be a complete villain... but that aside, even Murry had his good points. Conversely, even Brian's done a few horrible things. People... families. That's all. Murry was a hero by being instrumental in getting the band going, helping them get record contacts, and supporting his sons. Many years later, we found out that he was a villian by abusing a couple of them. Landy turned out to be a villian, but before that he was a hero by being instrumental in saving Brian's life.
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Post by Mikie on May 29, 2023 10:57:03 GMT -5
Marilyn Wilson Rutherford is about as heroic as it gets. She might not be perfect, but she is pretty close. She remains one of Brian Wilson's greatest champions. As you said, she's not perfect. Nobody is. She's taken some hits in the past for not getting help for Brian sooner and getting a pass that she was too young to understand his condition, in spite of living right down the street from UCLA Medical Center. BUT, she was the one who eventually called in Landy for help. And then messin' with Rocky. I do understand a woman has needs, but..... Marilyn was and still remains one of Brian's biggest supporters.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 29, 2023 11:05:22 GMT -5
Maybe that happened in some isolated case but PS was on its way up the charts when BotBB was released and that after a #6 previous album and popular singles. Capitol had no reason to hamstring PS and I think their promotion of the album also puts that to rest. Also, a best of album was not some show of a lack of faith in the group, it was part of a program of Capitol promotion of several popular groups including the Beatles. Fans lack of interest doesn't have to be somebody's else's fault. Capitol never released a “Best of The Beatles” album during The Beatles time in the sixties.
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Post by Cam Mott on May 29, 2023 11:24:01 GMT -5
I was counting Yesterday and Today.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 29, 2023 11:49:10 GMT -5
I was counting Yesterday and Today. That was not considered a Best Of album. That was completely new music from the Beatles when it was released. It really is no different than any other U.S. release put together by Capitol.
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Post by Cam Mott on May 29, 2023 12:17:00 GMT -5
OK, we will set Y&T aside.
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Post by jk on May 29, 2023 12:45:10 GMT -5
Hi all, Happy Memorial Day!!! I do have that book. It shows us how every family is in real life. Marilyn did help Brian. The books shows the human side of all of the Beach Boys and their families. I do believe Murray loved his family. He was just a man of his generation. Also, he was raised by a horrid man. I liked learning about the tours. Like all people, Brian did some questionable things. We love him due to his talent. This book is a most read for fans of The Beach Boys. Hi Mary. Same to you!! You mean Gaines's book? Looking at it now! Yes, Buddy was a difficult man. Physical violence can never be condoned. I hope you're doing OK. Say "Hi" to Gertie if you still see her. Her comments at the other forum were priceless!
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stuart
Grommet
Posts: 36
Likes: 71
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Post by stuart on May 29, 2023 16:29:47 GMT -5
Nancy and Ron Reagan for supporting the boys are to be commended.
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 211
Likes: 217
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Post by rjm on May 29, 2023 17:48:56 GMT -5
OK, we will set Y&T aside. In fact, Dr. Robert, And Your Bird Can Sing, and I’m Only Sleeping were released on Yesterday And Today in the US before they were released on the UK version of Revolver. As far as the original US Beatles fan base is concerned, Y & T was a new studio album.
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 211
Likes: 217
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Post by rjm on May 29, 2023 17:58:45 GMT -5
Maybe that happened in some isolated case but PS was on its way up the charts when BotBB was released and that after a #6 previous album and popular singles. Capitol had no reason to hamstring PS and I think their promotion of the album also puts that to rest. Also, a best of album was not some show of a lack of faith in the group, it was part of a program of Capitol promotion of several popular groups including the Beatles. Fans lack of interest doesn't have to be somebody's else's fault. Capitol never released a “Best of The Beatles” album during The Beatles time in the sixties. Capitol didn’t, but EMI did.
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Post by Mikie on May 29, 2023 20:41:47 GMT -5
OK, we will set Y&T aside. In fact, Dr. Robert, And Your Bird Can Sing, and I’m Only Sleeping were released on Yesterday And Today in the US before they were released on the UK version of Revolver. As far as the original US Beatles fan base is concerned, Y & T was a new studio album. In the U.S., 750,000 copies designated for record stores and around 60,000 copies for the press and radio stations of the Yesterday & Today album had the well-known "butcher cover". Highly collectible album, especially the album with a first state butcher cover.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 29, 2023 20:51:32 GMT -5
Nancy and Ron Reagan for supporting the boys are to be commended. And the villain was U.S. Interior Secretary James Watt who in 1983, banned the Beach Boys from playing again on the National Mall on July 4th because “hard rock music brought the wrong element.”
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Post by boogieboarder on May 29, 2023 21:00:49 GMT -5
Capitol never released a “Best of The Beatles” album during The Beatles time in the sixties. Capitol didn’t, but EMI did. Yes, and in the UK, where they generally didn’t put singles on LPs, it contained eight songs not previously released on an LP, seven singles and 1 song not released in the UK. They wanted something for the Christmas market, and their last LP, Revolver, was released 4 months previously. Today, a 4 month gap between albums seems ridiculously too soon for another LP. Studio albums are promoted for multiple years, and a four year gap between LPs wouldn’t even seem that unusual. The gap between Pet Sounds and The Best of The Beach Boys was less than 2 months.
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 4:55:30 GMT -5
Nancy and Ron Reagan for supporting the boys are to be commended. And the villain was U.S. Interior Secretary James Watts who in 1983, banned the Beach Boys from playing again on the National Mall on July 4th because “hard rock music brought the wrong element.” Watt claimed that he was not familiar with the BBs. Not even possible given that he purportedly lived in the US or the globe for that matter. It was not credible on the most basic of levels, notwithstanding this whole "bad influence/wrong element" alleged. It was as though he had lived under a rock. The band was in existence since 1961, complete with all the surf movies in the early 60s, and all over the TV music scene such as Ed Sullivan or Andy Williams and stuff that predated cable TV. He didn't "know them?" The single dumbest statement I have ever heard, before or since, about this band. Dude either lived in a bubble or was coached to say he was not familiar with them. If he went to college, he would have heard that the band played in a college near him. Even if he did not attend school in the US, they were a global music entity at least a decade or so, before he made that statement. If he had a radio or heard a radio he would be familiar.
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Post by Awesoman on May 30, 2023 7:21:42 GMT -5
There's at least *one* certifiable villain in the Beach Boys' lore:
Charles Manson. 🫠
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