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Post by boogieboarder on May 26, 2023 14:45:08 GMT -5
ironhorseapples said in a recent posting about Gene Landy: "Personally I put Landy at the top of the pile of the many villains in the Beach Boys story."
Now that's a great idea for a new thread. Who are the heroes and who are the villains in The Beach Boys Story?
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Post by ian on May 26, 2023 16:48:29 GMT -5
I agree it’s a fun idea but I feel like this type of thread usually leads to Wilson -Love arguments that are best avoided.
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Post by AGD on May 26, 2023 17:17:15 GMT -5
No heroes, no villains. Just... people.
OK, Landy turned out to be a complete villain... but that aside, even Murry had his good points. Conversely, even Brian's done a few horrible things. People... families. That's all.
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ryankc
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 97
Likes: 175
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Post by ryankc on May 26, 2023 19:34:31 GMT -5
I'd add Rocky Pamplin to the list of complete villain; even if his infamy is not as ergegious as Landy.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 26, 2023 19:47:06 GMT -5
I agree it’s a fun idea but I feel like this type of thread usually leads to Wilson -Love arguments that are best avoided. I concur. The Beach Boys themselves should be off limits in such a thread. I think Mike's more than done his time on the naughty step. |
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 26, 2023 20:04:20 GMT -5
No heroes, no villains. Just... people. OK, Landy turned out to be a complete villain... but that aside, even Murry had his good points. Conversely, even Brian's done a few horrible things. People... families. That's all. As I'm sure you have Andrew, I've heard some 'off the record' stories about Brian that made my toes curl. He gets a free pass because of his illness though. No such kindness is afforded to Mike though. Experiencing extreme fame from a young age screws people up, and like the Wilsons, I don't think Mike had the happiest adolescence. When viewed through that lens, a lot of Mike's behaviour becomes relatable and as you say, human. I've always found Mike to be verbose and highly intelligent, with a wicked sense of humour. Whilst I unashamedly worship at the altar of Brian Wilson, I think Mike would make the more interesting dinner guest. |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on May 26, 2023 21:53:58 GMT -5
It would be a great thread for 'Smiley Smile', the 'savages' have thrived on threads like that.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 27, 2023 12:03:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't suggest including any of The Beach Boys themselves. They are the band. It's the outsiders that acted as heroes and villains, in their relationships with the band.
I would include Nick Venet as a hero, for signing the band to Capitol and helping them become a national brand, for starters.
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Post by jk on May 27, 2023 12:09:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't suggest including any of The Beach Boys themselves. They are the band. It's the outsiders that acted as heroes and villains, in their relationships with the band. I would include Nick Venet as a hero, for signing the band to Capitol and helping them become a national brand, for starters.Yes. How about changing the thread title to Heroes in The Beach Boys Story? You know... accentuate the positive and all that.  |
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Post by boogieboarder on May 27, 2023 14:33:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't suggest including any of The Beach Boys themselves. They are the band. It's the outsiders that acted as heroes and villains, in their relationships with the band. I would include Nick Venet as a hero, for signing the band to Capitol and helping them become a national brand, for starters.Yes. How about changing the thread title to Heroes in The Beach Boys Story? You know... accentuate the positive and all that. Yeah, but then I can’t use the song title Heroes and Villains. Besides, positive threads rarely get any traction. |
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 27, 2023 20:35:34 GMT -5
Many would put Loren Daro firmly in the villainous category, which is understandable.
The glee in which he recounts the story of Brian's first trip is an uncomfortable moment in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary.
Personally I think his laughter is affectionate. Brian's eccentricity is part of what we all love about him, despite the fact it was often a manifestation of his mental health condition.
People just didn't know how dangerous psychedelics were back then, and Loren couldn't possibly have known what hellish doors he was opening by supplying Brian with the drug. And if it hadn't been Loren, it would have almost certainly been someone else.
A little contrition in the documentary would have been apt, but we don't know what may have been edited out. It doesn't come across well as it stands. I know he was attacked online about it and got very defensive.
I'm on the fence with this one.
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Post by Al S on May 27, 2023 21:13:41 GMT -5
I'd add Rocky Pamplin to the list of complete villain; even if his infamy is not as ergegious as Landy. I'd put Rocky in the people category; he was another desperate loser in over his head after a fleeting (air)brush with fame who chanced upon a goose with a golden egg carton. Additionally, he didn't act alone in his actions so shouldn't be singled out - it was him a couple of other peeps. Rocky's later re-emergence to peddle his poorly written and historically inaccurate was also aided and abetted. Let's call 'em the Pamplin gang. |
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Post by jk on May 28, 2023 3:16:10 GMT -5
Heart-warming to see the villain side of the equation being put in perspective. Villains in films and literature so often have redeeming, even endearing features.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 28, 2023 8:21:53 GMT -5
Van Dyke Parks - just a guy who Brian decided to collaborate on songwriting with for an album, …
a) Inspired a controversy and conflict within the band regarding the appropriateness of his lyrics, which arguably contributed to the withdrawal of Brian from The Beach Boys, and possibly his mental stability, after spearheading a 5-year streak of best selling and critically acclaimed albums.
b) Wrote the lyrics to the most famous unfinished album of all time forever, Smile. (Pulled out of the project, forcing Brian to kill it off before he could be recognized as the genius he was.)
c) Helped facilitate the signing of The Beach Boys to Warner-Reprise after their Capitol Records contract ended.
d) Helped a revitalized Brian Wilson finally complete a version of Smile, and win a Grammy.
Van Dyke Parks - hero or villain?
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Post by E on May 28, 2023 8:53:51 GMT -5
Hero, though there are times where he seems to enjoy being a waspish gadfly with a saviour narrative. But nobody's perfect and he's been close up and personal, so it's his prerogative, whether we like it or not.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 28, 2023 13:12:51 GMT -5
Regarding Dano, it's just been pointed out to me that the adverse effects of LSD were known about when Brian was given it.
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stuart
Grommet
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Likes: 68
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Post by stuart on May 28, 2023 13:23:37 GMT -5
I’d certainly add the Wondermints as heroes
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Post by AGD on May 28, 2023 15:21:25 GMT -5
Alan Boyd.
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Post by John Manning on May 28, 2023 15:23:14 GMT -5
You can’t have Boyd without having Mark Linett, surely! |
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Post by Al S on May 28, 2023 15:56:27 GMT -5
Chuck Britz, Stephen Desper, Peter Reum, David Leaf.
(Heroes, of course!).
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tonyw
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 93
Likes: 123 
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Post by tonyw on May 28, 2023 16:11:30 GMT -5
Mike Wheeler ... hero ... (I'll wait for a reaction)
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Post by boogieboarder on May 28, 2023 17:53:41 GMT -5
For those new to the board, perhaps you could add a brief reason for each name added as a hero, or villain. Plus it will make for more interesting reading.
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Post by Mikie on May 28, 2023 18:04:42 GMT -5
Mike Wheeler ... hero ... (I'll wait for a reaction) Cabinessence.com. 'Nuff said. |
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Post by hankbriarstem on May 28, 2023 22:46:38 GMT -5
Marilyn Wilson Rutherford is about as heroic as it gets. She might not be perfect, but she is pretty close. She remains one of Brian Wilson's greatest champions.
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Post by ironhorseapples on May 29, 2023 2:44:34 GMT -5
Capitol Records circa 1966 / 69
- For not believing in Pet Sounds
- For the breakage clause
- For promoting the Beatles over our boys
- For turning their backs once the money stopped rolling in.
Do I hear a boo and a hiss?
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