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Post by Al S on May 30, 2023 7:24:50 GMT -5
And the villain was U.S. Interior Secretary James Watts who in 1983, banned the Beach Boys from playing again on the National Mall on July 4th because “hard rock music brought the wrong element.” He didn't "know them?" The single dumbest statement I have ever heard, before or since about this band. Dude either lived in a bubble or was coached to say he was not familiar with them. Well, Watt was obviously a Republican!
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 8:57:23 GMT -5
He didn't "know them?" The single dumbest statement I have ever heard, before or since about this band. Dude either lived in a bubble or was coached to say he was not familiar with them. Well, Watt was obviously a Republican! A Republican from the 80s is not the same in 2023. There are some vestiges of the old guard, but that is changing by the minute. Watt was a clown, though, and probably an unwitting villain. But you hope that good music can cut across political ideologies. One can hope. 😂
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Post by Mikie on May 30, 2023 9:21:31 GMT -5
There's at least *one* certifiable villain in the Beach Boys' lore: Charles Manson. 🫠 Hands down the worst villain!
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 9:24:47 GMT -5
There's at least *one* certifiable villain in the Beach Boys' lore: Charles Manson. 🫠 Hands down the worst villain! 💯
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Post by boogieboarder on May 30, 2023 9:36:50 GMT -5
Well, Watt was obviously a Republican! A Republican from the 80s is not the same in 2023. There are some vestiges of the old guard, but that is changing by the minute. Watt was a clown, though, and probably an unwitting villain. But you hope that good music can cut across political ideologies. One can hope. 😂 James Watt, in addition to The Beach Boys controversy, was an anti-environmentalist, and was one of Ronald Reagan's most controversial cabinet appointments, the U.S. Secretary of the Interior. (Remember that Reagan, when Governor of California stated “If you’ve seen one redwood tree, you’ve seen them all.”) Watt was considered “the most blatantly anti-environmental political appointees in American history.” He even directed the National Park Service to draft rules that would de-authorize congressionally authorized national parks. What I remember the most is when he ordered the government to sell off parkland to private investors, and refused to accept donations from private landowners to create more public parks.
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west
Kahuna
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Likes: 96
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Post by west on May 30, 2023 9:46:50 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign.
Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back.
I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle.
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 10:31:36 GMT -5
A Republican from the 80s is not the same in 2023. There are some vestiges of the old guard, but that is changing by the minute. Watt was a clown, though, and probably an unwitting villain. But you hope that good music can cut across political ideologies. One can hope. 😂 James Watt, in addition to The Beach Boys controversy, was an anti-environmentalist, and was one of Ronald Reagan's most controversial cabinet appointments, the U.S. Secretary of the Interior. (Remember that Reagan, when Governor of California stated “If you’ve seen one redwood tree, you’ve seen them all.”) Watt was considered “the most blatantly anti-environmental political appointees in American history.” He even directed the National Park Service to draft rules that would de-authorize congressionally authorized national parks. What I remember the most is when he ordered the government to sell off parkland to private investors, and refused to accept donations from private landowners to create more public parks. Oddly enough, it looks (Wikipedia) as though he got his foot in the door in 1969 when LBJ was still in office. He did get in trouble lying to a federal grand jury so his sense of truth and fiction are questionable and for a long time. And got the big foot award more than once. Looks more like a career bureaucrat.
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 10:35:58 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign. Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back. I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle. Not sure if that was out of laziness or lack of creativity but more the surprise/shock of the sale numbers of the re-pack of the hits and the end of the Vietnam War. They saw and gave the fans what they wanted. I'm not sure that stifled creativity so much as they knew what they had to do to maintain a comfortable living, had put up with immense nonsense and in a sense, were entitled to milk-that-cash-cow. And a lot of the 60s bands evaporated but they stayed the course. It benefited the fans. We are none the worse for wear.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 30, 2023 10:39:06 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign. Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back. I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle. I’d say it was we the fans who wanted to see Brian up there on stage, even if only as a dancing bear. Had there been no interest, they wouldn’t have done it. The band didn’t push it on Brian from 1965-1975. Interest in Brian came from magazine articles on Brian and on The Beach Boys.
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 10:42:59 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign. Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back. I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle. I’d say it was we the fans who wanted to see Brian up there on stage, even if only as a dancing bear. Had there been no interest, they wouldn’t have done it. The band didn’t push it on Brian from 1965-1975. Interest in Brian came from magazine articles on Brian and on The Beach Boys. Brian did not go to all the shows. I didn't see him until 1987 with Landy in the wings. The fans were more than a little interested. Sold-out stadia validated their popularity and faithfulness of the fans. And by that time, with the sheer ages of the fans, in their 30s, it was a family affair.
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robin
Kahuna
Posts: 116
Likes: 149
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Post by robin on May 30, 2023 17:05:57 GMT -5
James Watt, in addition to The Beach Boys controversy, was an anti-environmentalist, and was one of Ronald Reagan's most controversial cabinet appointments, the U.S. Secretary of the Interior. (Remember that Reagan, when Governor of California stated “If you’ve seen one redwood tree, you’ve seen them all.”) Watt was considered “the most blatantly anti-environmental political appointees in American history.” He even directed the National Park Service to draft rules that would de-authorize congressionally authorized national parks. What I remember the most is when he ordered the government to sell off parkland to private investors, and refused to accept donations from private landowners to create more public parks. Oddly enough, it looks (Wikipedia) as though he got his foot in the door in 1969 when LBJ was still in office. He did get in trouble lying to a federal grand jury so his sense of truth and fiction are questionable and for a long time. And got the big foot award more than once. Looks more like a career bureaucrat. My Dad's comment on Watt was that he was a clueless jerk brought in to do a hatchet job on the Interior Department, but (fortunately) proved to be ineffectual even before his downright strange pronouncement about the Beach Boys. I think we actually can see him as an unwitting hero because his actions resulted in a public about-face at the highest, most visible parts of the government, which resulted in cementing the "America's band" identification. Some of that probably had an impact on the band's decision to regroup and keep going after Dennis' death.
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Post by AGD on May 30, 2023 17:25:48 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign. Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back. I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle. Not sure if that was out of laziness or lack of creativity but more the surprise/shock of the sale numbers of the re-pack of the hits and the end of the Vietnam War. They saw and gave the fans what they wanted. I'm not sure that stifled creativity so much as they knew what they had to do to maintain a comfortable living, had put up with immense nonsense and in a sense, were entitled to milk-that-cash-cow. And a lot of the 60s bands evaporated but they stayed the course. It benefited the fans. We are none the worse for wear. The perception that the release and almost instant success of Endless Summer saw the band turn into an oldies show overnight in summer 1974 is another BB myth. Proof ? Philadelphia Spectrum 11/15/74: 1. MARCELLA 2. I CAN HEAR MUSIC 3. LITTLE DEUCE COUPE 4. DO IT AGAIN 5. THE WARMTH OF THE SUN 6. CALIFORNIA SAGA/PART THREE: CALIFORNIA 7. SAIL ON SAILOR (Billy Hinsche on lead) 8. ALL THIS IS THAT 9. FEEL FLOWS 10. DARLIN' 11. HEROES AND VILLAINS 12. SURFER GIRL 13. CATCH A WAVE 14. I'M WAITING FOR THE DAY (Billy Hinsche on lead) 15. GOD ONLY KNOWS 16. DON'T WORRY BABY 17. SLOOP JOHN B. 18. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE 19. I GET AROUND 20. GOOD VIBRATIONS 21. HELP ME, RHONDA -Encore- 22. CALIFORNIA GIRLS 23. SURFIN' U.S.A. 24. BARBARA ANN 25. FUN, FUN, FUN
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 30, 2023 19:03:17 GMT -5
That Philadelphia show was a fairly even split for that timeframe.
1962 - 1965 11 songs 44%
1966 - 1969 9 songs 36%
1970 - 1973 5 songs 20%
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 20:13:42 GMT -5
Oddly enough, it looks (Wikipedia) as though he got his foot in the door in 1969 when LBJ was still in office. He did get in trouble lying to a federal grand jury so his sense of truth and fiction are questionable and for a long time. And got the big foot award more than once. Looks more like a career bureaucrat. My Dad's comment on Watt was that he was a clueless jerk brought in to do a hatchet job on the Interior Department, but (fortunately) proved to be ineffectual even before his downright strange pronouncement about the Beach Boys. I think we actually can see him as an unwitting hero because his actions resulted in a public about-face at the highest, most visible parts of the government, which resulted in cementing the "America's band" identification. Some of that probably had an impact on the band's decision to regroup and keep going after Dennis' death. The Watt thing, oddly enough showed that one-hand-did-not-know-what-the-other-one-was-doing and there was poor or no communication among the agencies, especially the Executive Branch. If you look at the woman interviewed, in the youtube above she was shocked that it was The BBs who were the maligned ones and substituted Wayne Newton for that event. Watt did not know what a fool he was in front of his patrons, the Reagan's, who were fans of the band. Apparently this woman who complained about the performers did not want The Grass Roots to perform and what resulted was that a band she personally approved of, The BBs got the hatchet.
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Post by filledeplage on May 30, 2023 20:17:19 GMT -5
Not sure if that was out of laziness or lack of creativity but more the surprise/shock of the sale numbers of the re-pack of the hits and the end of the Vietnam War. They saw and gave the fans what they wanted. I'm not sure that stifled creativity so much as they knew what they had to do to maintain a comfortable living, had put up with immense nonsense and in a sense, were entitled to milk-that-cash-cow. And a lot of the 60s bands evaporated but they stayed the course. It benefited the fans. We are none the worse for wear. The perception that the release and almost instant success of Endless Summer saw the band turn into an oldies show overnight in summer 1974 is another BB myth. Proof ? Philadelphia Spectrum 11/15/74: 1. MARCELLA 2. I CAN HEAR MUSIC 3. LITTLE DEUCE COUPE 4. DO IT AGAIN 5. THE WARMTH OF THE SUN 6. CALIFORNIA SAGA/PART THREE: CALIFORNIA 7. SAIL ON SAILOR (Billy Hinsche on lead) 8. ALL THIS IS THAT 9. FEEL FLOWS 10. DARLIN' 11. HEROES AND VILLAINS 12. SURFER GIRL 13. CATCH A WAVE 14. I'M WAITING FOR THE DAY (Billy Hinsche on lead) 15. GOD ONLY KNOWS 16. DON'T WORRY BABY 17. SLOOP JOHN B. 18. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE 19. I GET AROUND 20. GOOD VIBRATIONS 21. HELP ME, RHONDA -Encore- 22. CALIFORNIA GIRLS 23. SURFIN' U.S.A. 24. BARBARA ANN 25. FUN, FUN, FUN How sweet is the irony? But those compilation albums were back in the department store racks.
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robin
Kahuna
Posts: 116
Likes: 149
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Post by robin on May 30, 2023 22:15:53 GMT -5
The perception that the release and almost instant success of Endless Summer saw the band turn into an oldies show overnight in summer 1974 is another BB myth. Proof ? Philadelphia Spectrum 11/15/74: 1. MARCELLA 2. I CAN HEAR MUSIC 3. LITTLE DEUCE COUPE 4. DO IT AGAIN 5. THE WARMTH OF THE SUN 6. CALIFORNIA SAGA/PART THREE: CALIFORNIA 7. SAIL ON SAILOR (Billy Hinsche on lead) 8. ALL THIS IS THAT 9. FEEL FLOWS 10. DARLIN' 11. HEROES AND VILLAINS 12. SURFER GIRL 13. CATCH A WAVE 14. I'M WAITING FOR THE DAY (Billy Hinsche on lead) 15. GOD ONLY KNOWS 16. DON'T WORRY BABY 17. SLOOP JOHN B. 18. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE 19. I GET AROUND 20. GOOD VIBRATIONS 21. HELP ME, RHONDA -Encore- 22. CALIFORNIA GIRLS 23. SURFIN' U.S.A. 24. BARBARA ANN 25. FUN, FUN, FUN How sweet is the irony? But those compilation albums were back in the department store racks. Right, ENDLESS SUMMER was followed up with SPIRIT OF AMERICA the next year. My Dad was working in a Peaches record store in the Midwest then (1975-77) and he said that both sets were still in rotation on the in-store stereo system for much of that time--especially in the summer--and they continued to sell steadily. Curious about how the set list transition played out...I found a set list link for 3/28/75 at Andrew's site, here it is: 1. Marcella 2. Help Me, Rhonda 3. Little Deuce Coupe 4. Do It Again 5. The Warmth Of The Sun 6. Sail On Sailor 7. Feel Flows 8. All This Is That 9. Surfer Girl 10. Heroes And Villains 11. Catch A Wave 12. Don't Worry Baby 13. Darlin' 14. Wouldn't It Be Nice 15. I Get Around 16. Good Vibrations 17. California Girls 18. Surfin' USA 19. Jumpin' Jack Flash 20. Barbara Ann 21. Fun, Fun, Fun So that's 11 tracks from 62-65 (I'm putting Barbara Ann as '65), 5 from 1966-69, 4 from the '70s, and the cover of JJF. Definitely a bit of a shift from the Philadelphia show the previous November: far less from the 66-69 period here. And then a December 1975 set from Seattle: 1. SLOOP JOHN B 2. DO IT AGAIN 3. HELP ME, RHONDA 4. IN MY ROOM 5. SAIL ON SAILOR (Billy Hinsche on lead) 6. CALIFORNIA SAGA/PART THREE: CALIFORNIA 7. TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET 8. WISHIN' YOU WERE WERE (Billy Hinsche and Carl on lead) 9. SURFER GIRL 10. HEROES AND VILLAINS 11. BE TRUE TO YOUR SCHOOL 12. CATCH A WAVE 13. I GET AROUND 14. CALIFORNIA GIRLS 15. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE 16. SURFIN' U.S.A. 17. GOOD VIBRATIONS -Encore- 18. YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL 19. LITTLE DEUCE COUPE 20. BARBARA ANN 21. FUN, FUN, FUN 22. JUMPIN' JACK FLASH Here we have 11 songs from 62-65, 5 from 66-69; 3 from the 1970s, and three "outside the canon". So that's 60% of the Beach Boy-penned material from '62-'65 at this point, if we set aside those three songs and remove them from the count.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 30, 2023 22:49:06 GMT -5
In an effort to not pick an individual, I'll throw two ideas out there as villains, which are the oldies act route the guys started taking from 1975 on, and the Brian's Back campaign. Now I know the nostalgia bit was a gradual transformation, was beneficial monetarily, and it got all those stadiums sold-out. But it also brought with it negative side effects, such as losing the progressive spark and direction from the early 70s, pigeonholing the group into this 'jukebox on wheels' image, missing out on where Carl (and maybe a more engaged and healthier Dennis) could've taken the band, and leading us to Brian's Back. I am not saying Brian wasn't in need of major help by the mid-70s, he obviously was with the direction he was going in. But as far as dragging him out there on to the stage, they practically turned the man into a dancing bear for many of these shows. I'm glad Brian was able to 'get out of bed' and become more active. But at the same time, they turned the man into a spectacle. I’d say it was we the fans who wanted to see Brian up there on stage, even if only as a dancing bear. Had there been no interest, they wouldn’t have done it. The band didn’t push it on Brian from 1965-1975. Interest in Brian came from magazine articles on Brian and on The Beach Boys. I thought it was Landy who paraded Brian out in public again, both including having him do Beach Boys shows, and ill-fated solo appearances such as on Saturday Night Live and the sketches like the one with with Belushi and Akyroid taking Brian surfing.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on May 31, 2023 6:53:16 GMT -5
No matter who gave the OK, fans eager to see Brian prompted the decision. By 1976 Brian’s life was hitting mythical proportions.
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Post by boogieboarder on May 31, 2023 9:27:04 GMT -5
No matter who gave the OK, fans eager to see Brian prompted the decision. By 1976 Brian’s life was hitting mythical proportions. I remember a lot of publicity regarding Brian appearing with the band at the Whiskey in Hollywood in November, 1970. Brian - “It was good to get up there again. When I first got on stage I felt a little self-conscious. A lot of eyes were on me. So I thought okay, I’m gonna have some fun.” Unfortunately, he did not make it through the whole engagement. He returned on November 5, but left midway through the show. Mike commented, “It was during our second set that Brian started complaining about the pain in his right ear. He had to leave the stage and was taken by car straight to a specialist. He was in considerable pain.” With the exception of two brief cameos at local shows in 1971 and 1973, Brian would not play another concert until 1976.
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Post by Will/P.P. on May 31, 2023 10:13:34 GMT -5
I was very very happy that Brian was back on records and on stage in 1976. Loved the 1976 Tv show-ups. I bought the SNL box to get his performance complete. Wish there was more officially released products from 1965 thru 1978. Too much of it is YouTube or bootleg only.
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Post by jds on May 31, 2023 20:27:31 GMT -5
The people I hold in least regard -- including Landy, who at least managed to keep Brian Wilson from killing himself at two critical junctures -- are Brian's famous, semi-famous, and obscure drug enablers from '66-'74. But the Beach Boys really are the biggest villains of their own story.
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