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Post by mattonwheels on Oct 30, 2023 1:41:54 GMT -5
It's worth noting that in the case of the SMiLE remix i posted up there, the author has received Van Dyke Parks' encouragement. I think that's about as close to permission as a fan can realistically hope to ask for, and I think it comes across more as a loving tribute than "Ripping Brian off" But why does a tribute need to pretend to be Brian? What could that possibly add besides a faint sense of unease about the whole thing? I don't see it that way, and clearly the author meant no disrespect if he spoke to VDP on it. Besides, Dae isn't some nobody. He's someone at the forefront of this whole thing who has been getting plenty of coverage for his work. If Brian or his estate wanted to nuke him from orbit, they would have by now. (Especially on youtube.) It's more than just singing into a program. You have to actually, yknow, take time to get it right by singing like the actual person. If he was trying to crap on SMiLE or Brian this wouldn't sound near as amazing as it does. Seriously. As someone who is making his own version of SMiLE as I write this, it is NOT easy to format even WITH knowing the track listing I want, and im not even using AI (mostly. ONE little verse of DYLW wont kill anyone and I don't have the falsetto to pull it off on my own. I wasnt even the one who made it so, don't blame me. Besides that, everything missing is being sung by me.) This guy clearly means nothing but respect, as I do.
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Post by jonhunt on Oct 30, 2023 18:28:11 GMT -5
Hello, all -- uh, Jon Hunt here, from the old Smile Shop if anybody's old and remembers that?
I wanted to join the board here to join in this discussion -- which I've been sort of lurking on for a long time! -- and to throw out my own version that I just finished.
I cheekily named it the Smile Shop Smile v. 3.0 -- folks will remember that the Smile Shop has the perhaps dubious pleasure of being the first online version of Smile that was available (side-note: did we ever determine if April Cooper was a real person?). It's different than DaeLims' excellent version, and the other version that I can't remember the name of that the bloke at the Smiley board did (which I actually like even better than DaeLims) -- this one doesn't so much follow the BWPS model as it tries to create a hypothetical 1966-67 version based on what we know historically and some educated speculation.
Therefore, instead of using the melodies for Worms and Child from that, we've got the bit that Brian sang in the Worms session (I stole the end of it from DaeLims, I'll freely admit) and the melody from the end of Surf's Up, fleshed out with a 2nd verse from the handwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, etc. "Water" is Cool Cool Water, reconstructed following the part order played by Brian from the track session from the Wild Honey album (but using Dada as the track -- bit of a hybrid). "Great Shape" is...a thing. You'll see. And "OMP" has the melody for that song sung in the style of the Browns, the singing group that I think Al and Brian borrowed from a little for "Sloop John B."
Let me know what you think.
In terms of the ethics of such things -- honestly, it's not too much different than editing together a "Smile," there's just a new tool in the tool belt if you will that allows you to fill in melodies, etc. So far, everybody's used that quite artistically -- adding harmonies, etc. very much extrapolating from the style of Brian, and that's cool, honestly, that's like Brian himself finishing a Gershwin.
Anyway, hello!
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Post by John Manning on Oct 30, 2023 19:00:13 GMT -5
Welcome Jon. A really warm welcome.
Looking forward to listening to this properly tomorrow when the sun’s back above the horizon: if anyone knows and understands this music, it’s you.
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Post by Mikie on Oct 30, 2023 19:43:47 GMT -5
Hello, all -- uh, Jon Hunt here, from the old Smile Shop if anybody's old and remembers that? I wanted to join the board here to join in this discussion -- which I've been sort of lurking on for a long time! -- and to throw out my own version that I just finished. I cheekily named it the Smile Shop Smile v. 3.0 -- folks will remember that the Smile Shop has the perhaps dubious pleasure of being the first online version of Smile that was available (side-note: did we ever determine if April Cooper was a real person?). It's different than DaeLims' excellent version, and the other version that I can't remember the name of that the bloke at the Smiley board did (which I actually like even better than DaeLims) -- this one doesn't so much follow the BWPS model as it tries to create a hypothetical 1966-67 version based on what we know historically and some educated speculation. Therefore, instead of using the melodies for Worms and Child from that, we've got the bit that Brian sang in the Worms session (I stole the end of it from DaeLims, I'll freely admit) and the melody from the end of Surf's Up, fleshed out with a 2nd verse from the handwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, etc. "Water" is Cool Cool Water, reconstructed following the part order played by Brian from the track session from the Wild Honey album (but using Dada as the track -- bit of a hybrid). "Great Shape" is...a thing. You'll see. And "OMP" has the melody for that song sung in the style of the Browns, the singing group that I think Al and Brian borrowed from a little for "Sloop John B." Let me know what you think. In terms of the ethics of such things -- honestly, it's not too much different than editing together a "Smile," there's just a new tool in the tool belt if you will that allows you to fill in melodies, etc. So far, everybody's used that quite artistically -- adding harmonies, etc. very much extrapolating from the style of Brian, and that's cool, honestly, that's like Brian himself finishing a Gershwin. Anyway, hello! Hi Jon, and welcome to the board (finally)! This is mostly an AI thread, and I'm thinking this post would be more appropriate on the active "Your Smile Mix" thread instead of this one*. What do you think? Thanks! *Unless you'd rather leave it here because of the DaeLim AI mix reference....
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Post by mattonwheels on Oct 30, 2023 19:59:18 GMT -5
Hello, all -- uh, Jon Hunt here, from the old Smile Shop if anybody's old and remembers that? I wanted to join the board here to join in this discussion -- which I've been sort of lurking on for a long time! -- and to throw out my own version that I just finished. I cheekily named it the Smile Shop Smile v. 3.0 -- folks will remember that the Smile Shop has the perhaps dubious pleasure of being the first online version of Smile that was available (side-note: did we ever determine if April Cooper was a real person?). It's different than DaeLims' excellent version, and the other version that I can't remember the name of that the bloke at the Smiley board did (which I actually like even better than DaeLims) -- this one doesn't so much follow the BWPS model as it tries to create a hypothetical 1966-67 version based on what we know historically and some educated speculation. Therefore, instead of using the melodies for Worms and Child from that, we've got the bit that Brian sang in the Worms session (I stole the end of it from DaeLims, I'll freely admit) and the melody from the end of Surf's Up, fleshed out with a 2nd verse from the handwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, etc. "Water" is Cool Cool Water, reconstructed following the part order played by Brian from the track session from the Wild Honey album (but using Dada as the track -- bit of a hybrid). "Great Shape" is...a thing. You'll see. And "OMP" has the melody for that song sung in the style of the Browns, the singing group that I think Al and Brian borrowed from a little for "Sloop John B." Let me know what you think. In terms of the ethics of such things -- honestly, it's not too much different than editing together a "Smile," there's just a new tool in the tool belt if you will that allows you to fill in melodies, etc. So far, everybody's used that quite artistically -- adding harmonies, etc. very much extrapolating from the style of Brian, and that's cool, honestly, that's like Brian himself finishing a Gershwin. Anyway, hello! Neat to see another SMiLE fanatic! Nice to meet you! Im newer here, so let me say I respect your work!
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Post by jonhunt on Oct 30, 2023 20:14:53 GMT -5
Hello, all -- uh, Jon Hunt here, from the old Smile Shop if anybody's old and remembers that? I wanted to join the board here to join in this discussion -- which I've been sort of lurking on for a long time! -- and to throw out my own version that I just finished. I cheekily named it the Smile Shop Smile v. 3.0 -- folks will remember that the Smile Shop has the perhaps dubious pleasure of being the first online version of Smile that was available (side-note: did we ever determine if April Cooper was a real person?). It's different than DaeLims' excellent version, and the other version that I can't remember the name of that the bloke at the Smiley board did (which I actually like even better than DaeLims) -- this one doesn't so much follow the BWPS model as it tries to create a hypothetical 1966-67 version based on what we know historically and some educated speculation. Therefore, instead of using the melodies for Worms and Child from that, we've got the bit that Brian sang in the Worms session (I stole the end of it from DaeLims, I'll freely admit) and the melody from the end of Surf's Up, fleshed out with a 2nd verse from the handwritten lyrics for Surf's Up, etc. "Water" is Cool Cool Water, reconstructed following the part order played by Brian from the track session from the Wild Honey album (but using Dada as the track -- bit of a hybrid). "Great Shape" is...a thing. You'll see. And "OMP" has the melody for that song sung in the style of the Browns, the singing group that I think Al and Brian borrowed from a little for "Sloop John B." Let me know what you think. In terms of the ethics of such things -- honestly, it's not too much different than editing together a "Smile," there's just a new tool in the tool belt if you will that allows you to fill in melodies, etc. So far, everybody's used that quite artistically -- adding harmonies, etc. very much extrapolating from the style of Brian, and that's cool, honestly, that's like Brian himself finishing a Gershwin. Anyway, hello! Hi Jon, and welcome to the board (finally)! This is mostly an AI thread, and I'm thinking this post would be more appropriate on the active "Your Smile Mix" thread instead of this one*. What do you think? Thanks! *Unless you'd rather leave it here because of the DaeLim AI mix reference.... There’s actually quite a lot of AI in there! Many of the songs sport AI vocals. I forgot to mention!!
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Post by Mikie on Oct 30, 2023 20:40:19 GMT -5
Here it stays then!
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Post by jonhunt on Oct 30, 2023 21:48:44 GMT -5
Thank you, and good to see ya, Mikie!
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Post by Mikie on Oct 31, 2023 0:21:45 GMT -5
Thank you, and good to see ya, Mikie! Good to see you too, Jon!
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Post by AGD on Oct 31, 2023 1:53:12 GMT -5
Jon Hunt as I live and breathe! Dammit sir, but it's good to see you.
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Post by AGD on Oct 31, 2023 1:55:24 GMT -5
Neat to see another SMiLE fanatic! Nice to meet you! Im newer here, so let me say I respect your work! Jon's more than merely another Smile fanatic. Why, he's... Jon Hunt!
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Post by KenWorthing on Oct 31, 2023 4:33:19 GMT -5
Well, flippin' 'eck! .. Hiya, Jon! Really great to see you here. I still have a floppy-disc full of SMiLE SHoP conversations .. not sure if I have a floppy-drive to read them all on, but .. at least I know where they are (unlike the GV vocal mults).
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Post by mattonwheels on Oct 31, 2023 18:18:35 GMT -5
Neat to see another SMiLE fanatic! Nice to meet you! Im newer here, so let me say I respect your work! Jon's more than merely another Smile fanatic. Why, he's... Jon Hunt! Neat! :3
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Post by Micha on Nov 1, 2023 0:47:00 GMT -5
Hello, all -- uh, Jon Hunt here, from the old Smile Shop if anybody's old and remembers that? Hi Jon, yes I'm old and of course I do remember the SMiLE Shop! The funny thing is, I just scrolled through a folder on my computer looking for something a few minutes ago, spotting a file "Jon Hunt Western Sky.mp3" thinking what he's up to these days... Do you remember me too? I once did a Barnyard with Brian's "Barnyard Billy loved his chicken" overdubbed and a surf music style "Surf's Up" And do you remember how we pretended Sgt. Pepper didn't get finished instead of SMiLE and discussed how the unfinished pieces of the Beatles album would go together? Those were the days...
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Post by Vale on Nov 1, 2023 6:25:36 GMT -5
I DO remember Smile Shop, that's when I heard the first SMiLE tracks.- Thanks man!
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Post by Malc on Dec 22, 2023 3:14:20 GMT -5
He’s still at it…
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Post by John Manning on Dec 22, 2023 3:44:09 GMT -5
That is bloody good. It’s not Brian but it’s Brian-like, and the backing vocals sound more Foskett than actual Wilsonian/Lovian/Jardinian (and therefore perhaps more TWGMTR than PS), but it sets the song in a fresh context, and it is, as one comment stated, Pet Sounds-like. Moving.
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Post by Awesoman on Dec 22, 2023 8:15:09 GMT -5
That is bloody good. It’s not Brian but it’s Brian-like, and the backing vocals sound more Foskett than actual Wilsonian/Lovian/Jardinian (and therefore perhaps more TWGMTR than PS), but it sets the song in a fresh context, and it is, as one comment stated, Pet Sounds-like. Moving. I never cared much for this song but have to admit this version really brings out its charm. Dae Lims continues to impress.
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Post by Micha on Dec 23, 2023 6:47:15 GMT -5
Definitely an improvement of the recording.
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robin
Kahuna
Posts: 116
Likes: 149
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Post by robin on Dec 27, 2023 16:26:07 GMT -5
I think a lot of Dae Lim’s attempts to do a “neo-classic era” Brian lead vocal—the ones where he’s pitched lower than the high-flying stuff he’s best known for—are too breathy & lack the muscular undertones in Brian’s voice that are evident in a song like “Sloop John B” or the coda of “I’m Waiting For The Day.” If he could capture that timbre, I think these tracks would be just about dead-on. I think he’s getting incrementally closer to it, though. Imagine a whole CD of tracks with “era-adjusted vocals” running the gamut from the early years up to something like “Soul Searching”—would be pretty mind-blowing!!
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Post by AGD on Dec 27, 2023 17:43:07 GMT -5
Now, that's a huge improvement from his first attempts, which to these ears were frankly embarassing. That said, my question stands and remains valid: why? As someone has already said, just because you can doesn't mean you should. And... why excise Marilyn?
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Post by longtime lurker on Dec 27, 2023 18:59:59 GMT -5
Now, that's a huge improvement from his first attempts, which to these ears were frankly embarassing. That said, my question stands and remains valid: why? As someone has already said, just because you can doesn't mean you should. And... why excise Marilyn? I have to say I don't find this nearly as intoxicatingly great as his stunning work on the two unfinished (and unissued for decades) 1968 cover medleys.
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Post by Malc on Dec 28, 2023 3:18:47 GMT -5
Hmmm… not quite so sure about the new one that has just landed (disco dancing in the 60s ?), tho I do kinda like the full-on production towards the end…
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Post by Micha on Dec 30, 2023 6:10:50 GMT -5
All that's left is putting it on the original backing tracks.
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Post by AGD on Dec 30, 2023 12:50:47 GMT -5
Hmmm… not quite so sure about the new one that has just landed (disco dancing in the 60s ?), tho I do kinda like the full-on production towards the end… That's not a bad Mike. However, the lead sounds nothing like Brian. Far too shrill.
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