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Post by Mikie on Jun 11, 2022 23:21:46 GMT -5
For context, I work at an indie music distributor and suffice to say that daily I hear a lot of new music and I can't quite say that anything that comes through our pipeline sounds like this and if it did, it would be reason to reach out to the label putting it out and check in that that is indeed how they want their release to sound. I was wondering about that. And coming from an Indie distributor who's in the trenches and has access to a lot of various artist's releases, I'm sure you would have a pretty good handle on their sound quality. Good post, Swonk. Thanks. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 0:26:14 GMT -5
This is such a pathetic post. I'm 39 and happily married with two kids, the youngest of which was born two weeks ago and I'm over the bloody moon about it. It's such a cheap shot to try to imply that those who disagrees with you must somehow be unhappy and filled with anger with no life outside of 'buggin' about records'. Just such a lousy tactic. The displeasure with your interview is solely because we're Beach Boys fans - we're all deeply passionate about this band - and you seem to be almost revelling in purposefully screwing up their music. Yep, sounds like we are being told to just “shut up and go home”, as Brian once said. Take what we give you and quityou’rebitchin’. Hey, at least now we know where we stand in the grand scheme of things. Pretend we're all sad no-life losers and it makes it easier to dismiss our very worthwhile concerns. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 0:35:55 GMT -5
No. I'm not saying that.
If you listened (and heard) my interview, you would know we're all trying our best.
We're all trying to do right by a catalogue that was left to wither for years. Zero care.
A LOTTA people have been happy with the work we've done from SUNSHINE TOMORROW on. Tons of unearthed material we all now have forever (e.g. POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA.)
What I AM saying is -- don't be ugly. Don't be a dick about Rock.
So much amazing shit is happening -- and I'm somehow the enemy for mixes YOU don't like?
If this, sadly, is the trade-off between being the person who would wait at midnight for a new release or now being part of the team that help puts it together, it sucks -- but I'll take this "side" of the fence.
That said -- it's Saturday. We only get one a week.
I'm gonna enjoy it.
Later.
Just please stop piling compression and treble on everything. That is basically what the vast majority of the (many, many) complaints are saying. There were remixes on Made in California and Sunshine Tomorrow and that was cool because they weren't smothered in excessive digital-sounding compression and treble. The problem with Feel Flows is the compression/treble. It sounds plain nasty. Even some professional critics highlighted it as a criticism: www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/A decent trade-off would be just not to do this with CATP/Holland, and then everyone will be happy! Remix the CATP and Holland albums to your heart's content - we've already got the albums anyway. But just please, please, please don't add loads of off-putting compression and treble to the previously unreleased tracks. That is primarily all that is being asked. |
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Post by AGD on Jun 12, 2022 0:43:57 GMT -5
Had a quick word with Someone Who Knows About These Things (these things being the individual streaming platforms) and they told me that once you deliver the files, the site's own algorithms kick in, which would certainly explain why "Marcella" sounds unlistenable on Vimeo - still, just checked - and acceptable on Spotify. So, hopefully the expanded comp and Sail On, Sailor will sound better than what we've heard thus far.
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 12, 2022 2:14:57 GMT -5
Well Howie took all that well.  Got to have a thick skin around here, but he has to understand what the general public has to say, whether he likes it or not. Seriously though, he is telling us to try and 'get a life'?, it's a fucking Beach Boys forum where we discuss things and pull things apart! That's what fans and fanatics do. I don't think it entails one to have special privileges, but when you've spent many thousands of dollars on this group over X amount of years, I surely don't think having an honest open opinion should be called out for. And! I've been listening a long long time.
I'm Sorry Howie you have a bitterness towards what the real fans have to say, and perhaps your not the right guy for this job, and should pass it on. With all us potential punters waiting in the wings, even ridiculously wanting to buy this music again, your attitude stinks. But you did say the demographic is for the 22 year old and that people in their 60's don't buy new music. That's utter rubbish by the way! All you need to do is get on YouTube and watch some reviews on the 'Feel Flows' set and see how many older people are still buying music. I bet there's more in the 60's buying box sets and 22 year olds. That's a very narrow approach to have dude, when there's a spectrum of fans of many ages into this group.
Seriously? How many 22 year olds are going to be buying a 6 LP 'Sounds of Summer' box set, let alone a 2 LP version?
What I don't understand, is your supposed to be on team 'Beach Boys' save their future bullshit', and yet, when the fans give the feedback, you get your back up, and put the blame on us, and then say 'stop buggin' about records'? You guys did a fine job messing up the 'Feel Flows' set, with it's 'shitty' album masterings and useless book that had no details!, but that's another story.
I get it, it might not mean much to you, but it Fucking means a lot to some of us that this stuff should be handled better. Have a nice day! 
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Post by John Manning on Jun 12, 2022 2:16:32 GMT -5
Had a quick word with Someone Who Knows About These Things (these things being the individual streaming platforms) and they told me that once you deliver the files, the site's own algorithms kick in, which would certainly explain why "Marcella" sounds unlistenable on Vimeo - still, just checked - and acceptable on Spotify. So, hopefully the expanded comp and Sail On, Sailor will sound better than what we've heard thus far. I understood the Vimeo file to be one Rick had captured on Spotify and uploaded to Vimeo for us all to have an opinion on? So it might be Vimeo’s algorithms messing with Spotify’s algorithms! I still found it a better listen than what I got from Apple Music. Haven’t played the YouTube one yet, that app keeps giving me the runaround. I’m holding out hope that the CD mastering will knock all these streaming/download renditions into a cocked hat. Update: YouTube isn’t as bad as Apple Music, but Spotify-via-Vimeo still rules the roost to my ears on my crappy equipment! |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jun 12, 2022 3:03:10 GMT -5
Had a quick word with Someone Who Knows About These Things (these things being the individual streaming platforms) and they told me that once you deliver the files, the site's own algorithms kick in, which would certainly explain why "Marcella" sounds unlistenable on Vimeo - still, just checked - and acceptable on Spotify. So, hopefully the expanded comp and Sail On, Sailor will sound better than what we've heard thus far. I understood the Vimeo file to be one Rick had captured on Spotify and uploaded to Vimeo for us all to have an opinion on? So it might be Vimeo’s algorithms messing with Spotify’s algorithms! I still found it a better listen than what I got from Apple Music. Haven’t played the YouTube one yet, that app keeps giving me the runaround. I’m holding out hope that the CD mastering will knock all these streaming/download renditions into a cocked hat. Update: YouTube isn’t as bad as Apple Music, but Spotify-via-Vimeo still rules the roost to my ears on my crappy equipment!Yep, it was Spotify to Cool Edit Pro as a .wav file, then directly uploaded to Vimeo. I didn't adjust anything to the file, it is what it is.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 4:52:26 GMT -5
Well Howie took all that well.  Got to have a thick skin around here, but he has to understand what the general public has to say, whether he likes it or not. Seriously though, he is telling us to try and 'get a life'?, it's a fucking Beach Boys forum where we discuss things and pull things apart! That's what fans and fanatics do. I don't think it entails one to have special privileges, but when you've spent many thousands of dollars on this group over X amount of years, I surely don't think having an honest open opinion should be called out for. And! I've been listening a long long time.
I'm Sorry Howie you have a bitterness towards what the real fans have to say, and perhaps your not the right guy for this job, and should pass it on. With all us potential punters waiting in the wings, even ridiculously wanting to buy this music again, your attitude stinks. But you did say the demographic is for the 22 year old and that people in their 60's don't buy new music. That's utter rubbish by the way! All you need to do is get on YouTube and watch some reviews on the 'Feel Flows' set and see how many older people are still buying music. I bet there's more in the 60's buying box sets and 22 year olds. That's a very narrow approach to have dude, when there's a spectrum of fans of many ages into this group.
Seriously? How many 22 year olds are going to be buying a 6 LP 'Sounds of Summer' box set, let alone a 2 LP version?
What I don't understand, is your supposed to be on team 'Beach Boys' save their future bullshit', and yet, when the fans give the feedback, you get your back up, and put the blame on us, and then say 'stop buggin' about records'? You guys did a fine job messing up the 'Feel Flows' set, with it's 'shitty' album masterings and useless book that had no details!, but that's another story.
I get it, it might not mean much to you, but it Fucking means a lot to some of us that this stuff should be handled better. Have a nice day! 
His attitude on here makes his Feel Flows liner notes seem a little disingenuous. "The Beach Boys catalogue follows you through life, like a musical calendar or diary... Keep the Beach Boys close to your heart for your whole life". Perhaps it should have read: "The Beach Boys catalogue follows you through life, like a musical calendar or diary, but, you know, don't get too hung up about it... Keep the Beach Boys close to your heart, but not too close otherwise you probably need to get a life". |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 5:02:16 GMT -5
Tons of unearthed material we all now have forever (e.g. POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA.) Yes, but some of that unearthed material has been smothered in ugly compression and excessive treble. Take the Poops/Hubba Hubba material. Behold the Night, Before and I've Got a Friend all sound absolutely lovely, but Old Movie (Cuddle Up) and Hawaiian Dream have so much compression piled on the vocals that it ruins the listening experience, which is a shame because the tracks themselves are clearly gorgeous (I'm a HUGE Dennis fan!). Why couldn't it have all just sounded lovely? Why the need to overdo the compression on selected tracks? Again, all anyone is really saying is this: if we're going to spend our hard-earned money on a CATP/Holland set, we'd rather the previously unreleased material wasn't smothered in digital-sounding compression and OTT treble that makes the vocals sound shrill and tinny. The thought of finally - finally! - seeing the official release of Carry Me Home only for it to arrive with these same audio issues, it would honestly be truly heartbreaking. This music means a hell of a lot to us, Howie. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 5:33:53 GMT -5
What I don't understand, is your supposed to be on team 'Beach Boys' save their future bullshit', and yet, when the fans give the feedback,
you get your back up, and put the blame on us, and then say 'stop buggin' about records'?
This whole 'we need to save the Beach Boys future' line is so obviously nonsense. Firstly, the 2003 Sounds of Summer has been selling ridiculously well for almost a decade now, and it continues to sell well. The Beach Boys music sells. They remain hugely popular, among all age groups (just look in the comments section on YouTube beneath any of their most famous songs and the comments are filled with people saying "I'm 13 and I LOVE the Beach Boys" and "I'm a 20-year-old female student and the Beach Boys are my favourite band"). But even if you buy into the idea that the Beach Boys music does somehow need saving, how on earth does smothering great albums and songs with unpleasant digital-sounding compression and treble make their survival more likely? |
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rjm
Kahuna
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Post by rjm on Jun 12, 2022 6:05:10 GMT -5
What I don't understand, is your supposed to be on team 'Beach Boys' save their future bullshit', and yet, when the fans give the feedback,
you get your back up, and put the blame on us, and then say 'stop buggin' about records'?
This whole 'we need to save the Beach Boys future' line is so obviously nonsense. Firstly, the 2003 Sounds of Summer has been selling ridiculously well for almost a decade now, and it continues to sell well. The Beach Boys music sells. They remain hugely popular, among all age groups (just look in the comments section on YouTube beneath any of their most famous songs and the comments are filled with people saying "I'm 13 and I LOVE the Beach Boys" and "I'm a 20-year-old female student and the Beach Boys are my favourite band"). But even if you buy into the idea that the Beach Boys music does somehow need saving, how on earth does smothering great albums and songs with unpleasant digital-sounding compression and treble make their survival more likely? The bulk of the records Sounds Of Summer sold was when commercial oldies radio was still playing 60’s hits. The format changes when the demographic changes. When oldies radio was playing 60’s hits in the 80’s and 90’s, the original audiences were in their 40’s. Today, oldies radio is now hits from the 90’s because those kids who bought Spice Hirls and Britney and Backstreet Boys are now either in their 40’s or are approaching their 40’s. The BB’s oldies radio contemporaries like the Beatles and the Stones also have traditionally had a home on classic rock radio in addition to oldies. The BB never had that ever. Their currency in the marketplace survived in spite of that, but for how much longer? The Beatles, of all acts, saw their most revered albums all drop when Rolling Stone updated their Greatest Albums list. And all,I think because the voters in that poll were all younger and probably saw the Beatles as just one of the greats as opposed to The Greats. Of course, that all changed when Apple and Peter Jackson released Get Back (the Beatles immediately became cool once again to a new generation all because Peter Jackson edited all of the Get Back footage to tell a linear story). This is what I think Howie is referring to when he says the BB future needs to be saved. And that means presenting the music in a way that would not have been done 30 years ago. |
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jun 12, 2022 6:41:14 GMT -5
Breathe in, breathe out… A few incoherent thoughts:
The positives:
+ The 2021 remix of Good Vibrations was an improvement over earlier attempts (despite the vocals being in mono, no big deal for me though). It was slightly bassy but at least the harshness was gone (plus a snippet of Carl’s vocals!).
+ We will most likely get to hear unreleased CATP/Holland material later this year. That can’t be a bad thing.
+ The remixes are often fun and a great way to hear old songs anew AND the vintage mixes won’t go away, so that’s a win-win.
+ The expanded Sounds of Summer MIGHT sound weird/compressed/bad/whatever and be ”mastered for radio/streaming”, but that’s fine with me. It’s a compilation for casual fans and normal people. It’s not aimed at hardcore Beach Boys dorks (i.e. most of the people on this forum)… but then again the new remixes are most likely a way of attracting the completists, so what gives?
+ Wake the World and I Can Hear Music sounded very, very good. Lots of improved (drier!) mixes of material previously swathed in reverb on collections such as Hawthorne, CA.
The negatives:
- The sound of Feel Flows was very inconsistent with too much compression and smiley face EQ and a few cases of weird and unneccesary ProTools wizardry. Thankfully a lot of the previously unreleased material sounded good and that’s what’s important (at least to me).
- The 2021 remix of Shit Down (oops, that was actually a typo… SHUT Down) sounded artificial and overly processed with very strange EQ moves to make it sound ”modern”. Hello smiley face EQ, goodbye midrange.
- The 2021 of Marcella was compressed up the wazoo with some questionable EQ. Is this an indication of how the rest of the material on the upcoming CATP/Holland box set will sound like? 😟
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 6:58:19 GMT -5
This whole 'we need to save the Beach Boys future' line is so obviously nonsense. Firstly, the 2003 Sounds of Summer has been selling ridiculously well for almost a decade now, and it continues to sell well. The Beach Boys music sells. They remain hugely popular, among all age groups (just look in the comments section on YouTube beneath any of their most famous songs and the comments are filled with people saying "I'm 13 and I LOVE the Beach Boys" and "I'm a 20-year-old female student and the Beach Boys are my favourite band"). But even if you buy into the idea that the Beach Boys music does somehow need saving, how on earth does smothering great albums and songs with unpleasant digital-sounding compression and treble make their survival more likely? And smothering great albums and songs with unpleasant digital-sounding compression and excessive treble ensures that survival how exactly? |
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Post by addsomemusic43 on Jun 12, 2022 7:17:05 GMT -5
If I may chime in, being a member of a group that the “supposed” new mixes are aimed towards. I’ve enjoyed in mass the works of Sunshine Tomorrow(1,2,Live), MiC, Wake The World, and other associated sets. They each stand out to me as cohesive enjoyable listening experiences. A few rough spots here and there, but great work. The Feel Flows Box set is not. Portions of it are completely and utterly unlistenable due to questionable mixing decisions. Some of these are awful experiences to sit through. I had followed the news on this set from its genesis to its release and beyond. I couldn’t wait for it to be out, and ultimately I put my hard earned money into it. What I was met with in return was a mess. Don’t get me wrong, I love parts of it. But for a fan, this felt like a spit in the face at times. It almost even felt embarrassing to be a fan of this.
This new Marcella mix is unlistenable, as was the Shut Down mix before it. I fear the new Sounds Of Summer set, and the CATP/Holland set following after, are going to have the same result as Feel Flows. This doesn’t feel like the treatment that the band’s catalog deserves. This doesn’t feel like it was made with the supposed intention of breathing new life into the music for a younger generation. Something about it all feels wrong. I’m glad there are people in control of and releasing the vast recorded material of the band. It’s certainly more access to a bands catalog then the fans of many other artists have. But to have this, and then squander it away with what has been released in the last year, it’s a disaster. While I’m sure we all appreciate the hard work that those involved but in, there has to be a gold standard for this work.
I hope that in the coming future this trend changes, but currently all signs point to more disappointment. But one can still hope.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 12, 2022 7:56:54 GMT -5
No. I'm not saying that.
If you listened (and heard) my interview, you would know we're all trying our best.
We're all trying to do right by a catalogue that was left to wither for years. Zero care.
A LOTTA people have been happy with the work we've done from SUNSHINE TOMORROW on. Tons of unearthed material we all now have forever (e.g. POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA.)
What I AM saying is -- don't be ugly. Don't be a dick about Rock.
So much amazing shit is happening -- and I'm somehow the enemy for mixes YOU don't like?
If this, sadly, is the trade-off between being the person who would wait at midnight for a new release or now being part of the team that help puts it together, it sucks -- but I'll take this "side" of the fence.
That said -- it's Saturday. We only get one a week.
I'm gonna enjoy it.
Later.
Just please stop piling compression and treble on everything. That is basically what the vast majority of the (many, many) complaints are saying. There were remixes on Made in California and Sunshine Tomorrow and that was cool because they weren't smothered in excessive digital-sounding compression and treble. The problem with Feel Flows is the compression/treble. It sounds plain nasty. Even some professional critics highlighted it as a criticism: www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/A decent trade-off would be just not to do this with CATP/Holland, and then everyone will be happy! Remix the CATP and Holland albums to your heart's content - we've already got the albums anyway. But just please, please, please don't add loads of off-putting compression and treble to the previously unreleased tracks. That is primarily all that is being asked. tomtomplayboy - you found a source, that is impressive, to me. It takes a while to get cred from a new poster but you found a feedback/published source. This board is a very good (no, excellent) source of feedback for a lower tech social media source (thanks Doc ❤️) and people who are measured, respectful and highly informed, (I don’t mean insiders - but those who have observed the band in a scholarly fashion contemporaneous to the social changes in the last 60 years - because history, art and music all go hand-in-glove) with many long time fans who have some credentials and coursework in music (mine are in teaching) and are measured when they share their reflections. It is not found elsewhere to the best of my knowledge and there are experts from the BB sphere who have abandoned other fora to share, here. I defer to their expertise in sound and experience working with the band. Someone would do well from “on high” to touch base with those who walked-the-walk in this sphere for feedback. Sound is not my area - I only know what “sounds” good to my ears and nothing technical. The music and especially the vocals merit the highest form of respect, no matter the age and condition of the source material. I think you can’t go wrong with people like Alan, Mark and Mr. Desper and touch base with all 3 before setting work in stone. Mr. Desper gets the music to the deep, creamy almost hypnotic level it was performed with, albeit under a very different technology at work. if you listen to what he has shared with us, here, you can hear that context, in my opinion. That deep, creamy, almost seductive (think Carl Wilson on lead) and hypnotic formula should be what the listener enjoys, alongside the unreleased material. The ultimate standard - not a do-over, because this is not a time machine. These releases should hypnotize us just as the original LPs did. That is the point. And, I was not the only one to be annoyed that The Little Girl I Once Knew (my BB coup de foudre) was left off and am in good company on Brian’s instagram page. Good to reach out for constructive and positive feed-back, before you get blow-back. Constructive feedback - (and outreach) (done pre-emptively) beats blowback - every single time. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 8:05:16 GMT -5
If I may chime in, being a member of a group that the “supposed” new mixes are aimed towards. I’ve enjoyed in mass the works of Sunshine Tomorrow(1,2,Live), MiC, Wake The World, and other associated sets. They each stand out to me as cohesive enjoyable listening experiences. A few rough spots here and there, but great work. The Feel Flows Box set is not. Portions of it are completely and utterly unlistenable due to questionable mixing decisions. Some of these are awful experiences to sit through. I had followed the news on this set from its genesis to its release and beyond. I couldn’t wait for it to be out, and ultimately I put my hard earned money into it. What I was met with in return was a mess. Don’t get me wrong, I love parts of it. But for a fan, this felt like a spit in the face at times. It almost even felt embarrassing to be a fan of this. This new Marcella mix is unlistenable, as was the Shut Down mix before it. I fear the new Sounds Of Summer set, and the CATP/Holland set following after, are going to have the same result as Feel Flows. This doesn’t feel like the treatment that the band’s catalog deserves. This doesn’t feel like it was made with the supposed intention of breathing new life into the music for a younger generation. Something about it all feels wrong. I’m glad there are people in control of and releasing the vast recorded material of the band. It’s certainly more access to a bands catalog then the fans of many other artists have. But to have this, and then squander it away with what has been released in the last year, it’s a disaster. While I’m sure we all appreciate the hard work that those involved but in, there has to be a gold standard for this work. I hope that in the coming future this trend changes, but currently all signs point to more disappointment. But one can still hope. Sadly, I agree with every word of this. It's particularly frustrating because it's all so unnecessary. We know that Mark Linett and Alan Boyd can produce incredible-sounding archive releases because they did it consistently for decades. For whatever misguided reasons, they have chosen and/or been encouraged to ditch their winning formula - and the results have proven soul-destroyingly disappointing. I'm not a religious man, but I'm praying - praying - that they revert back to their previous production methods for CATP/Holland. They might simply double-down and/or be encouraged not to change course, but hopefully not. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 8:12:21 GMT -5
Just please stop piling compression and treble on everything. That is basically what the vast majority of the (many, many) complaints are saying. There were remixes on Made in California and Sunshine Tomorrow and that was cool because they weren't smothered in excessive digital-sounding compression and treble. The problem with Feel Flows is the compression/treble. It sounds plain nasty. Even some professional critics highlighted it as a criticism: www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/A decent trade-off would be just not to do this with CATP/Holland, and then everyone will be happy! Remix the CATP and Holland albums to your heart's content - we've already got the albums anyway. But just please, please, please don't add loads of off-putting compression and treble to the previously unreleased tracks. That is primarily all that is being asked. tomtomplayboy - you found a source, that is impressive, to me. It takes a while to get cred from a new poster but you found a feedback/published source. This board is a very good (no, excellent) source of feedback for a lower tech social media source (thanks Doc ❤️) and people who are measured, respectful and highly informed, (I don’t mean insiders - but those who have observed the band in a scholarly fashion contemporaneous to the social changes in the last 60 years - because history, art and music all go hand-in-glove) with many long time fans who have some credentials and coursework in music (mine are in teaching) and are measured when they share their reflections. It is not found elsewhere to the best of my knowledge and there are experts from the BB sphere who have abandoned other fora to share, here. I defer to their expertise in sound and experience working with the band. Someone would do well from “on high” to touch base with those who walked-the-walk in this sphere for feedback. Sound is not my area - I only know what “sounds” good to my ears and nothing technical. The music and especially the vocals merit the highest form of respect, no matter the age and condition of the source material. I think you can’t go wrong with people like Alan, Mark and Mr. Desper and touch base with all 3 before setting work in stone. Mr. Desper gets the music to the deep, creamy almost hypnotic level it was performed with, albeit under a very different technology at work. if you listen to what he has shared with us, here, you can hear that context, in my opinion. That deep, creamy, almost seductive (think Carl Wilson on lead) and hypnotic formula should be what the listener enjoys, alongside the unreleased material. The ultimate standard - not a do-over, because this is not a time machine. These releases should hypnotize us. That is the point. The source came via good old Wikipedia. The issues with the audio are mentioned in the main section of the Feel Flows wikipedia page (first line of the third paragraph) and there is a link to the review further down. I remember being really quite happy when I found this review because it confirmed to me that I wasn't going mad and that much of Feel Flows really did sound strange and unpleasant. When the issues with compression/treble are mentioned in the opening section of a Wikipedia entry, I think it becomes harder to claim it is only hardcore fans who are objecting to the poor mastering. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows_(album) |
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 12, 2022 8:42:39 GMT -5
tomtomplayboy - you found a source, that is impressive, to me. It takes a while to get cred from a new poster but you found a feedback/published source. This board is a very good (no, excellent) source of feedback for a lower tech social media source (thanks Doc ❤️) and people who are measured, respectful and highly informed, (I don’t mean insiders - but those who have observed the band in a scholarly fashion contemporaneous to the social changes in the last 60 years - because history, art and music all go hand-in-glove) with many long time fans who have some credentials and coursework in music (mine are in teaching) and are measured when they share their reflections. It is not found elsewhere to the best of my knowledge and there are experts from the BB sphere who have abandoned other fora to share, here. I defer to their expertise in sound and experience working with the band. Someone would do well from “on high” to touch base with those who walked-the-walk in this sphere for feedback. Sound is not my area - I only know what “sounds” good to my ears and nothing technical. The music and especially the vocals merit the highest form of respect, no matter the age and condition of the source material. I think you can’t go wrong with people like Alan, Mark and Mr. Desper and touch base with all 3 before setting work in stone. Mr. Desper gets the music to the deep, creamy almost hypnotic level it was performed with, albeit under a very different technology at work. if you listen to what he has shared with us, here, you can hear that context, in my opinion. That deep, creamy, almost seductive (think Carl Wilson on lead) and hypnotic formula should be what the listener enjoys, alongside the unreleased material. The ultimate standard - not a do-over, because this is not a time machine. These releases should hypnotize us. That is the point. The source came via good old Wikipedia. The issues with the audio are mentioned in the main section of the Feel Flows wikipedia page (first line of the third paragraph) and there is a link to the review further down. I remember being really quite happy when I found this review because it confirmed to me that I wasn't going mad and that much of Feel Flows really did sound strange and unpleasant. When the issues with compression/treble are mentioned in the opening section of a Wikipedia entry, I think it becomes harder to claim it is only hardcore fans who are objecting to the poor mastering. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feel_Flows_(album)Wiki is a good place to start - it is something. Again, I am not a sound expert but prefer the deep analog bass-based sound with the creamy voices that ran alongside the original work. That should be the goal. The concept is akin to what I have seen in marketing or re-marketing The Beatles as though you could go back to 1964. Please. That is a phenomenon that can’t be duplicated, replicated or recycled. This new generation is not “in that zone.” It is not virtual reality. That is illusory. Like a video game. The concept that I heard as a strategy for re-packing the Beatles’ is utterly idiotic and a rabbit hole not to go down. No one is coming with you. There will be novelty purchases for sure, but it is hardly sustainable as a business model. It is not real time of the 60s and 70s. |
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bbfinfl
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 86
Likes: 163 
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Post by bbfinfl on Jun 12, 2022 8:48:53 GMT -5
My first BB listening experiences were driving in a noisy, base model VW Rabbit, 5-3/4 door speakers, cassette tape from LPs complete with misplaced needle drops, pops and clicks, skipping, etc. Any and everything put out today sounds fabulous in comparison. Back then, the only source of BB news was the monthly BBFUN newsletter. Though a huge fan, I thought the band should go away after the embarrassing Long Beach/Queen Mary concert, and they almost did. However, they righted the ship and beyond. They have a permanent place in pop/rock aristocracy, are now being frequently covered by new, young and hip bands bringing in new fans. The music is still being used in popular broadcast shows-H/V in the Amazon trailer- oh my, how cool. Having seen them in concert from 1978 and recently in February, I am a lucky fan. The remixes are fantastic and fascinating and are a great addition to the classic and timeless originals. The previously unreleased songs and especially the Dennis/Daryl stuff is flat out brilliant. I want to thank Mark, Alan, Howie and everyone involved for pouring their heart and soul into the catalog and getting this new stuff finished and out there for us to hear. I'm good with constructive criticism (yes, someone blew it with some of the remastering on FF), but serious negativity and lack of respect for other's opinions is just not cool. I am super grateful for all of this stuff, perfect or not. I personally won't judge any sound quality on anything streamed, and can't wait for the CDs to drop. What a great time to be a fan!
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Post by Steve Mayo on Jun 12, 2022 9:02:49 GMT -5
that was a very good post. it’s how i basically feel about this topic. it put a smile on my face. i was also playing around in the settings page on this board. i found a certain function there that i used awhile ago for the first time. and it works beautifully. another smile on my face.
all is right here in beach boy land again.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 12, 2022 9:18:31 GMT -5
Trying to imagine how in the world “Get Back” made the Beatles cool again.
Was there A time in recent history where they just weren’t?
I mean I know it was a nice promo push but from everything I’ve found, all of their releases from the two decades before get back were all major successes, including all of the 50th anniversary super Deluxe Editions over the past five years or so
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 12, 2022 9:28:14 GMT -5
Trying to imagine how in the world “Get Back” made the Beatles cool again. Was there A time in recent history where they just weren’t? That film 🎥 was boiled down from hundreds of hours. It put flesh on the skeleton that the public had. Their work process. How they regarded their fellow musicians, the BB recording process in their orbit, really almost a fly-on-the-wall. I loved it enough to pay more attention. In that regard, it was a success. I’m not sure who else would have found it riveting unless they had a profound interest in their music, film making or music making to get an overview of their process. I absolutely loved it. But their music did not grab me in the way that the BBs did. It was a little “too cool” and they were trying a little too hard in real time. I would love to see Ringo when he tours again. Probably the most under appreciated Beatle. I found Paul’s back story as the others very compelling and their individual experiences their personal drivers for creativity. |
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 12, 2022 9:28:33 GMT -5
Trying to imagine how in the world “Get Back” made the Beatles cool again. Was there A time in recent history where they just weren’t? I mean I know it was a nice promo push but from everything I’ve found, all of their releases from the two decades before get back were all major successes, including all of the 50th anniversary super Deluxe Editions over the past five years or so Aside from a wobble in the 1980s, the Beatles have been consistently hugely popular since the 1960s, and they remain so today. Get Back hasn't restored their popularity because they were already hugely popular. The documentary itself was a success because the Beatles are still so loved, not vice versa. And, as you say, Beatles products continue to sell in huge numbers. |
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Post by Mr. Explorer on Jun 12, 2022 9:39:42 GMT -5
Count me among those under 30 who loved and purchased TSS, PS50, Sunshine Tomorrow, and the 68 sets. Count me among those who was deeply disappointed with Feel Flows. Count me among those scared for the future after hearing the latest remixes from the Sounds Of Summer (Expanded Edition Super Deluxe). Ever since the betrayal of the 2019 “set”, I’m Going Your Way, Brother and Iconic have been on a downward quality spiral. Certainly some of the music released has sounded ok, but much of it has been confusing, inadequate, painful, or all of the above. I don’t want this to be the case, but it’s right in front of us. I did an accidental AB test the other day when I had mistakenly set my iTunes library to play all tracks in alphabetical order. For a laugh I let it run for a while. I pretty quickly reached “Add Some Music To Your Day”, and as I skipped through the openings of each of the 5 masterings I have of that track, one hurt my ears so bad I almost screamed. I turned to my screen, big surprise: Feel Flows. That very subjective anecdote aside, the inconsistency is not only with the mastering and mixing. Just look Feel Flows compared to actual successful Beach Boys archival projects: On Sunshine Tomorrow we got a fantastic full album remix. On Feel Flows? Only the outtakes were remixed, and some of them are unlistenable. On Pet Sounds Sessions we got every song in an a cappella version. On Feel Flows? Only 8 of 22 album tracks, including Dr. No The Woman (why?  ), got an a cappella version released. On The Smile Sessions we got dozens of minutes of fascinating audio of Brian at work in the studio. On Feel Flows? Only a sparing few seconds here and there of session audio with no context that they shouldn’t have even bothered with. I and many others hoped Feel Flows was a negative anomaly, and that Mark and Co. deserved the benefit of the doubt. But signs aren’t great: On MiC we got punchy, well rounded, streaming friendly remixes of songs like Susie, Rock n Roll Music, It’s Ok and Fun Fun Fun. On Sounds of Summer? These new mixes so far I wouldn’t call friendly to anything, and would have any new young fan pressing play and going “why does this sound so weird?” (and they have any experienced fan rushing for their twofers. The same twofers people on the Steve Hoffman forums have been saying for 20+ years sound bad. Really makes you think.) I’m going long so I’ll just briefly touch on the fact that the Feel Flows layout and tracklisting was so confusing that 10 months later I still have trouble knowing whats even on which disc. I didn’t even remember until five minutes ago that Cotton Fields Single Version got an a cappella (but Disney Girls didn’t? God is truly dead). If nothing changes, a hypothetical CatP/Holland set seems doomed to repeat these mistakes. I will end by saying I’m glad that The Beach Boys have so much stuff released every year, and I do continue to buy it. But lately I feel like a rube with a brain disease rather than an excited fan. I miss 2018. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 12, 2022 9:44:41 GMT -5
Aside from a wobble in the 1980s, the Beatles have been consistently hugely popular since the 1960s, and they remain so today. Get Back hasn't restored their popularity because they were already hugely popular. The documentary itself was a success because the Beatles are still so loved, not vice versa. And, as you say, Beatles products continue to sell in huge numbers. exactly. Also: The Beatles, of all acts, saw their most revered albums all drop when Rolling Stone updated their Greatest Albums list. And all,I think because the voters in that poll were all younger and probably saw the Beatles as just one of the greats as opposed to The Greats. I’m not sure how One publications list of best albums of all time means anything in the grand scheme of things. And even then, the Beatles still had an album in the top five, and several albums throughout the entire list itself. To me that’s absolutely *not* any type of sign of their decline in importance and stature, simply because… There hasn’t been one. |
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), got an a cappella version released. On The Smile Sessions we got dozens of minutes of fascinating audio of Brian at work in the studio. On Feel Flows? Only a sparing few seconds here and there of session audio with no context that they shouldn’t have even bothered with.