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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 14:53:45 GMT -5
The strangest thing to me is that some fans want remixes wich are exactly the same than the ols mixes! Why should they do this? Honestly, I don’t need remixes of songs already recorded in stereo. Preparing stereo mixes of mono only releases, like Pet Sounds, Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, etc. we’re enough for me. In all of those cases were the new stereo mixes so different from the original mono’s. There is nothing on any of those remixes that were as different as Marcella (2021) is from Marcella (1972). The new Marcella sounds more like an alternate take than a cleaned up, clearer sounding (1972) Marcella, which is what I was expecting. Similar to remixes of Don’t Worry Baby or Fun Fun Fun.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 15:07:57 GMT -5
Howie does not work for Mark or vice versa. They are hired to work on projects.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 15:15:41 GMT -5
The strangest thing to me is that some fans want remixes wich are exactly the same than the ols mixes! Why should they do this? no one has said this. Everyone I’ve seen say anything negative about the new mixes all say the exact same thing. The treble is too much. The compression is too much. Everything else is fine, or at least more up to personal preference.
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Post by Sam_BFC on Jun 11, 2022 15:22:50 GMT -5
Interesting and good post from mattbielewicz, but surprising that he would include Sunflower among albums from that era that sound tonally dull, if that was his intention.
I do not think that the phenomenon being discussed (increased treble, etc) necessarily started with the Feel Flows release. A good example is Even Steven from Wake The World when compared to the classic Busy Doin Nothin (I do understand that this is not quite the same situation as Marcella being remixed).
The beginnings of this style of mixing for me even goes back to the 70s version of Back Home on Made In California (again, not a fully valid example given that the unreleased version I was previously familiar with does sound almost unmixed entirely).
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 15:27:55 GMT -5
Howie does not work for Mark or vice versa. Good. Because, judging by that podcast interview, Howie is giving Mark some truly awful advice, all of which seems to be based on wholly wrongheaded assumptions about listener preferences. Mark and Alan should be left alone to do the same sort of good work that they did with Made in California, Sunshine Tomorrow, The Smile Sessions, etc. Less is more.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 15:42:44 GMT -5
Howie does not work for Mark or vice versa. Good. Because, judging by that podcast interview, Howie is giving Mark some truly awful advice, all of which seems to be based on wholly wrongheaded assumptions about listener preferences. Mark and Alan should be left alone to do the same sort of good work that they did with Made in California, Sunshine Tomorrow, The Smile Sessions, etc. Less is more. In my opinion, neither Mark, Alan Boyd, Iconic, Capitol/UMe need to listen to anyone but the fans of any particular group or singer. We know best. We are the listeners. As Beach Boys fans we know what/how their music should sound like. 🙂
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Howie
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 12
Likes: 146
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Post by Howie on Jun 11, 2022 15:47:06 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys?
All this anger. All this pain. Jesus.
Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife.
You guys should do the same. Life's short.
Stop buggin' about records.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 15:50:35 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys? All this anger. All this pain. Jesus. Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife. You guys should do the same. Life's short. Stop buggin' about records. It’s what we do! Maybe you should listen to us fans. We know what we like. We’ve been listening for many many years. 58 years for me. 😉 Glad to see you in here.🙂
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 15:53:29 GMT -5
I don’t think Howie or Mark are to fully blame, I just truly hope they’re listening to the feedback. Sounds of summer was presumingly mixed and mastered all in 2021, before or during the Feel Flows release cycle. It’s done, The way it sounds is going to be the way it sounds, and they obviously can’t go back and change it now. I just truly hope going forward that some of the fair criticisms of both feel flows and these tracks that have been released so far are being taken into account when it comes to future projects. Obviously audio is very subjective, everyone likes something a little bit different, but clearly these recent releases are not without criticism from the majority of listeners. There’s Plenty of criticism here, over on other message boards, Reddit, discord, Facebook, twitter, even some official publications have brought up the harsh sound.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 16:02:01 GMT -5
They are contracted by Capitol and/or Brother/Iconic. They can’t say anything bad. They can’t even agree with our concerns. I’m sure they sign confidentiality agreements and the such. All they can do is tell us to chill out and quit with the vitriol.
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Post by tomtomplayboy on Jun 11, 2022 16:06:47 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys? All this anger. All this pain. Jesus. Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife. You guys should do the same. Life's short. Stop buggin' about records. This is kind of a pathetic post. I'm 39 and happily married with two kids, the youngest of which was born two weeks ago and I'm over the bloody moon about it! It's a cheap shot to try to imply that those who disagree with you must somehow be unhappy and filled with anger with no life outside of 'buggin' about records'. It's such a lousy tactic. The displeasure with your interview is solely because we're Beach Boys fans - we're all deeply passionate about this band - and you seem to be almost revelling in purposefully screwing with their music.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 11, 2022 16:11:52 GMT -5
Howie... I like your new mixes. Keep on doing you job. We have the double cds for the classic mixes, and now, we will have a new way to listen to the records we love so much. I love this Marcella mix. Much more powerful than the original, a little bit to flat.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 16:13:02 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys? All this anger. All this pain. Jesus. Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife. You guys should do the same. Life's short. Stop buggin' about records. This is such a pathetic post. I'm 39 and happily married with two kids, the youngest of which was born two weeks ago and I'm over the bloody moon about it. It's such a cheap shot to try to imply that those who disagrees with you must somehow be unhappy and filled with anger with no life outside of 'buggin' about records'. Just such a lousy tactic. The displeasure with your interview is solely because we're Beach Boys fans - we're all deeply passionate about this band - and you seem to be almost revelling in purposefully screwing up their music. Yep, sounds like we are being told to just “shut up and go home”, as Brian once said. Take what we give you and quityourbitchin’. Hey, at least now we know where we stand in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 16:14:16 GMT -5
They are contracted by Capitol and/or Brother/Iconic. They can’t say anything bad. They can’t even agree with our concerns. I’m sure they sign confidentiality agreements and the such. All they can do is tell us to chill out and quit with the vitriol. of course they can’t publicly, but at least we have confirmation that they have seen the criticism. And hopefully, behind closed doors, someone’s listening. But Howie really doesn’t instill confidence
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Post by mustomax on Jun 11, 2022 16:17:24 GMT -5
These are a "Remixed" not "Remasters". So, no problem...
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Post by northcoast on Jun 11, 2022 16:19:12 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys? All this anger. All this pain. Jesus. Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife. You guys should do the same. Life's short. Stop buggin' about records. Howie I agree. All the complaining about Feel Flows and the mix was bad or too compressed or too much treble or too much bass or the banjo was mixed too low and the cello was mixed too high. Does get stupid after awhile
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 11, 2022 16:24:58 GMT -5
Man. Such vitriol. That's what what my interview talking about The Beach Boys inspired? THAT'S the take-away from, what, 40 minutes talking about The Beach Boys? All this anger. All this pain. Jesus. Going out to play with my kids then dinner with my wife. You guys should do the same. Life's short. Stop buggin' about records. Howie I agree. All the complaining about Feel Flows and the mix was bad or too compressed or too much treble or too much bass or the banjo was mixed too low and the cello was mixed too high. Does get stupid after awhile Talking about this stuff, whether praising or complaining is what we do here. Please feel free to heap praise on the remixes here. I love hearing both sides of an argument (in the legal sense). Me, I come from the “Squeaky wheel gets the grease” line of thinking.
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Howie
Author/Historian/ Researcher
Posts: 12
Likes: 146
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Post by Howie on Jun 11, 2022 16:25:24 GMT -5
No. I'm not saying that.
If you listened (and heard) my interview, you would know we're all trying our best. We're all trying to do right by a catalogue that was left to wither for years. Zero care.
A LOTTA people have been happy with the work we've done from SUNSHINE TOMORROW on. Tons of unearthed material we all now have forever (e.g. POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA.)
What I AM saying is -- don't be ugly. Don't be a dick about Rock.
So much amazing shit is happening -- and I'm somehow the enemy for mixes YOU don't like?
If this, sadly, is the trade-off between being the person who would wait at midnight for a new release or now being part of the team that help puts it together, it sucks -- but I'll take this "side" of the fence.
That said -- it's Saturday. We only get one a week.
I'm gonna enjoy it.
Later.
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sockit
Grommet
Posts: 33
Likes: 49
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Post by sockit on Jun 11, 2022 16:31:19 GMT -5
Aw c'mon, folks. Eat your burnt steak and dried out carrots and enjoy it! Just kidding! But seriously, I'm not sure what to think of this new set. On the one hand, I'm always intrigued with new mixes, although I'm mostly into remixes previously available only in mono. The new mastering on any of the recent releases is what frightens me. Seems like it's all over the place. Kind of a crap shoot. Much of the Feel Flows set sounds really good; much of it sounds terrible. Fortunately for me, the terrible sounding part has already been released with better mastering. Sometimes you gotta just get up and walk out, and go back to that restaurant that knows how to cook a steak!
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 11, 2022 16:49:35 GMT -5
No. I'm not saying that.
If you listened (and heard) my interview, you would know we're all trying our best. We're all trying to do right by a catalogue that was left to wither for years. Zero care.
A LOTTA people have been happy with the work we've done from SUNSHINE TOMORROW on. Tons of unearthed material we all now have forever (e.g. POOPS/HUBBA HUBBA.)
exactly, and sunshine tomorrow, wake the world, and the poops/hubba hubba stuff sounds great. Why can’t everything sound great? Why does some stuff get to sound great (Behold The Night) and other stuff gets relegated to treble hell (Sunflower 2019, Marcella 2021)? what happened to the “consistency”? What I AM saying is -- don't be ugly. Don't be a dick about Rock. So much amazing shit is happening -- and I'm somehow the enemy for mixes YOU don't like? If this, sadly, is the trade-off between being the person who would wait at midnight for a new release or now being part of the team that help puts it together, it sucks -- but I'll take this "side" of the fence. I don’t think anyone thinks you’re the “enemy”, but when you (BRI/Capitol) ask us to dump money, time, and excitement into something with The Beach Boys name on it, we expect greatness. We expect Quality. We expect the catalog to be treated with care and respect, and sometimes, especially recently, it just doesn’t feel that way. It feels like “take your slop and shut up.” Between The all over the place inconsistent sound quality, and the band camp half-song dumps, and the incorrect tagging across streaming services (Wake the World still has a title spelled wrong four years later) and so on and so on, sometimes it’s hard to stay confident as a superfan.
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Post by mustomax on Jun 11, 2022 16:52:48 GMT -5
Surf's up lp original mix was so flat, so sad... Feel Flows give it a new life. I love this mix. This lp is far better now.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 11, 2022 18:03:22 GMT -5
And I bought the download. I wanted the tracks and I didn’t want to wait another minute or day. Good for you. Did your parents play The Beach Boys? I wasn't saying I bought it in order to seem superior to those who didn't. I was saying I bought it because it was suggested that the box-set was primarily bought by those aged 65 and over. Well, I'm a long way off 65, as are the vast majority of the people I know who also bought it. And I never took it that way. I have no patience when it comes to this kind of stuff because I want the tracks pronto. But, I would be one of those who buy everything and would buy the whole designer box. I may watch ebay for some pre-owned. Of course you are an enthusiastic fan - you are around the age of my kids but they would probably use Spotify and would never be doing the scholarly study that you are doing. Good for you.
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swonk
Grommet
Posts: 13
Likes: 46
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Post by swonk on Jun 11, 2022 18:20:44 GMT -5
I'm not super active on here, but have been following this thread. I love The Beach Boys and I love releases like this and the (usually) yearly archival releases a la Feel Flows, Sunshine Tomorrow, Wake The World, etc. Part of the reason why I'm permanently obsessed with this band is because of the Sunshine Tomorrow release - that acted like a catalyst that I could just get obsessively lost in. The new stereo mix of Wild Honey was amazing and all the session highlights and previously unheard material on that set blew my mind. It was my go to CD that summer it came out! I still have so much love for that release and the archival releases that surround it.
All that said... there has been a noticeable decline in sound quality for these types of releases over the past few years, and the new mixes of "Shut Down" and "Marcella" are a bit concerning / demotivating. For context, I work at an indie music distributor and suffice to say that daily I hear a lot of new music and I can't quite say that anything that comes through our pipeline sounds like this and if it did, it would be reason to reach out to the label putting it out and check in that that is indeed how they want their release to sound.
I've listened to Marcella on airpods, sennheiser headphones, my stereo setup, laptop speakers, etc and it's the same issue on every single one. I know these mixes don't detract from what original stereo mixes we have, but from the viewpoint of a consumer who purchases this material, it makes me feel like I've wasted my money when I turn it on and the music comes out in a trebly swath of overly-compressed sound.
I don't want to sound like I'm unappreciative, because I do appreciate that there are people who are working on these releases and want to get this music out to fans. The Beach Boys deserve that so so much, and I'm glad it's getting the attention that it rightly deserves. All I ask is that the music gets treated with the care and respect it warrants. It bums me out that our first real chance to hear previously unheard outtakes in high quality from 1972-73 like "Rooftop Harry", "Spark In The Dark", "Carry Me Home", "Out In The Country" etc etc will get released in this state and then that's what we're stuck with forever. If this were the equivalent of what Sunshine Tomorrow was to me back in 2017, I could imagine hearing this and being taken aback a bit by the sound and not listen to it as much. I'd hate for the sound quality to make younger fans turn away from engaging more with The Beach Boys and their vast catalog of music.
I can't overstate how much I appreciate Mark's work all these years, he's an absolute legend and his stereo mixes previously have been incredible and you can tell a lot of love and care went into them. All I want is that to continue with future releases he works on. Parts of Feel Flows sounded great! The Dennis material as a whole sounded fantastic in my opinion. But the singles released for Sounds Of Summer and last years Long Promised Road's soundtrack concern me a bit. I just hope the people working within these releases listen to people's rightful and understandable criticism and take it seriously. We all share a deep love for this band (why else would we be on this forum discussing this?) and I think all this criticism users are posting here comes from a place of love for the music and shouldn't be swept under the rug.
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 244
Likes: 254
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Post by rjm on Jun 11, 2022 18:52:10 GMT -5
Here’s some sacrilege.
I think the Marcella remix is better than the original release.
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M.I.U. Fan
Kahuna
God's Lonely Man
Posts: 114
Likes: 214
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Post by M.I.U. Fan on Jun 11, 2022 20:07:57 GMT -5
My 2 cents... I don't care what you do with remixes of previously released material. That's fine. They are alternative versions, I have the originals, I'll live. I don't get worked up over it.
However, of all the sets released thus far, I found the overall sound of "Feel Flows" not to my liking, which surpised me. Thats fine for the albums proper included, I've got other copies, but it hampered my enjoyment of some of the vault stuffs I so anxiously waited for.
I would question my own ears and equipment but I have heard the same concerns from many people. Doesn't make us right, but something has certainly changed, has it not? Because I've never had a negative reaction like this before.
Smile Sessions, Sunshine Tomorrow, the 68 sets all sound great. Feel Flows has wonderful content, but I find myself constantly reaching for the nob to turn it down.
Im not looking to diss anybody's hard work or question intentions. I just want to offer constructive criticism as a long time listener who has grown accustomed to the high quality sound of the previous sets this team has so graciously given to us.
Whatever changes in direction that were made in the period between "Wake The World" and "Feel Flows", could you maybe, sorta, you know, change them back? At least for vault stuff we're hearing for the first time? Hits packages... hey, do what you gotta do.
Respectfully submitted. Thank you.
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