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Post by AGD on Oct 24, 2021 0:25:57 GMT -5
Remind me again why vinyl is superior to CDs ?
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rjm
Kahuna
Posts: 245
Likes: 254
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Post by rjm on Oct 24, 2021 4:43:22 GMT -5
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Post by AGD on Oct 24, 2021 7:31:42 GMT -5
"Warped, off centre and/or dirty/noisy vinyl is starting to become a thing that's too often in my latest purchases...". Also, that article (and thanks for the link) goes on to point out that in streaming at least, brickwalling is a thing of the past due to improved technology. That said, I doubt any new process will make the 2013 live album sound anything other than horrible... |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Oct 24, 2021 23:07:32 GMT -5
To me at least, unless you’re getting something vintage or something special pressed for vinyl like an analog production, vinyl doesn’t make a difference.
Especially since pretty much all modern non-specialized mastering or remastering comes from the exact same digital source as the streaming/cd versions
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Post by AGD on Oct 25, 2021 2:23:45 GMT -5
Almost all vinyl these days is pressed using a digital source tape, thus rendering the whole point totally invalid. All you're buying is a CD pressed up on vinyl, and at a price that can be charitably described as "premium".
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Oct 25, 2021 3:12:36 GMT -5
As a guy who normally would buy vinyl and CD, I'm seriously starting to wonder why I bother myself now. I've enjoyed a lot of the vinyl revival, and getting some great albums on vinyl for the most part. In some cases, some you'd never dream of seeing especially pressed up on and then maybe on a colored or a picture disc. I was sad when vinyl went away during the 90's, and while I hopped onto the CD craze, I still missed buying records. When they came around again, I was excited by the fact. Excited too, because they were relatively affordable at that time! and they brought back great memories.
Import costs were cheap, and it worked out only being a few bucks more than buying the CD. That was 20 years ago.... International Shipping to Australia now can be much more than the record itself. Then there's that little thing called having 'room' to store these heavy suckers in. Anybody tried moving a couple thousand LP's or so and you ever think that was fun? I assure you, there's nothing fun about it. Apart from the odd release now, i'm glad to get off the vinyl train for the most part. Things are just getting too expensive for my wallet.
I ain't buying no 12 variant copies of 'At My Piano' on different colored vinyl or with each album having a bonus song. I'm a fan, but even a fan has to start to draw the line with this stuff.
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Post by AGD on Oct 25, 2021 3:31:02 GMT -5
The only thing I miss about vinyl is the packaging.
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Post by boogieboarder on Oct 26, 2021 9:52:50 GMT -5
Anybody tried moving a couple thousand LP's or so and you ever think that was fun?
My mom once asked me if I ever worried about having my 3,000 LPs stolen? No, not at all - it took me an entire day to move them 10 miles away once. But since then, after collecting 6,000 CDs, thousands of VHS tapes, over 1000 DVDs, 1000s of books, boxes and boxes of papers and magazines, fanzines, and paying professional movers at great cost to move me four times - I wonder if I am a collector or a hoarder? I am upset, though, that at least one box is missing which contains expensive and out of print CD box sets by The Beatles, Frank Sinatra, The Grateful Dead, and other artists. |
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Post by filledeplage on Oct 26, 2021 10:11:23 GMT -5
The only thing I miss about vinyl is the packaging. The ability to read print on an LP. I would not strain my eyes trying to read the micro-font size in a CD booklet. |
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Post by Will/P.P. on Oct 26, 2021 13:32:39 GMT -5
At home I enjoy it when my son plays piano renditions of BB songs so I quite like Brian's versions as extensions of that. Shameless plug - a few years ago my son put some of his piano renditions on his YouTube channel at link (need to scroll down a bit, past his more recent compositions and amongst renditions of classical pieces). To manage expectations, he'd be the first to say they're straightforward versions. My first pick was "Hold Me Tight" - thinking it was The Beatles song, but, hey, he wrote that! Very good. Then tried "All Summer Long" (nice and mellow mood) and "Long Promised Road" (I want more Bangin') To finish off, "Little Rabbit Foo Foo" - what a pick, and a vocal to boot. Sure you're proud of his skills. Happy, papa. |
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Post by Will/P.P. on Oct 26, 2021 16:48:08 GMT -5
That article seems to point out the problems with streaming if you ask me. And picking on Oasis, again, is useless to this fan. The original Cd Singles sounded great if you can find the U.K. Singles boxes, but even better on 12" vinyl. But, Ouch! Those 1995 and the remastered 2016 album (2nd one) the link connects to at Spotify, do sound bad. The remastered 2016 Cd Deluxe sets of the second and third albums sound great on my system. First album, Definitely Maybe, was done as a DVD in 2004 with no sound issues. And, all of the singles and career videos (38 total) were put on DVD in the time flies... 1994-2009 box-set (2010) with excellent sound. Power Pop sounds best on vinyl in most cases. See Raspberries, Cheap Trick, Fotomaker, ect., they are just not worth buying. Some Pop/Rock music just was not made well enough in the first place to sound great on Cd. Some artists do find the right balance. Quality Cds by The Rascals (all of their stuff), Pilot, The Records, Hollies and most of The Kinks can be found. Todd Rundgren actually improved on Cd due to the long playing times per side hampering the sound on many of his early albums through the mid-seventies. Read as many reviews as you can before buying is the best advice. I will continue to avoid streaming services. |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Oct 26, 2021 22:06:05 GMT -5
I think when all the stars are aligned, Vinyl has a better sounding 'resonance'. It's something there in the bottom end that seems to push the music to you. Like standing in front of a speaker and feeling the air. I feel the same about valves/tubes over transistors, the sound is more 'musical'. I'm no HiFi buff, and don't get into measuring graphs or analyzing frequency responses etc etc, Just hook up and listen, and vary components in the system to what I like sounds the best. CD's though, I equally love. For a format that's some 40 year old, it's still right up the top. That technology still blows my mind, how a laser can read data and turn it into music without physical contact.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Oct 27, 2021 0:55:36 GMT -5
Even if I’m not particularly on the same page, I can understand saying that vinyl is better than CDs.
However, to this day I will never, ever understand the people who put down streaming or Digital downloads as inferior to CDs.
It’s not, it’s literally the exact same.
A lossless file on a hard drive, a Lossless file being pulled down from some server or a lossless file on a CD? It’s still the exact same lossless file.
Literally the only defense that you can give is that you prefer having a physical object. Outside of that, there is no sound quality differences.
Unless of course you’re Lossy streaming, which in that case this discussion is completely moot
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Post by AGD on Oct 27, 2021 4:12:33 GMT -5
I think when all the stars are aligned, Vinyl has a better sounding 'resonance'. It's something there in the bottom end that seems to push the music to you. Like standing in front of a speaker and feeling the air. I feel the same about valves/tubes over transistors, the sound is more 'musical'. I'm no HiFi buff, and don't get into measuring graphs or analyzing frequency responses etc etc, Just hook up and listen, and vary components in the system to what I like sounds the best. CD's though, I equally love. For a format that's some 40 year old, it's still right up the top. That technology still blows my mind, how a laser can read data and turn it into music without physical contact.
That'll be the subsonic rumble of the stylus as it eats into the vinyl... and the turntable itself.  |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Nov 12, 2021 8:03:48 GMT -5
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 12, 2021 13:08:06 GMT -5
Even if I’m not particularly on the same page, I can understand saying that vinyl is better than CDs. However, to this day I will never, ever understand the people who put down streaming or Digital downloads as inferior to CDs. It’s not, it’s literally the exact same. A lossless file on a hard drive, a Lossless file being pulled down from some server or a lossless file on a CD? It’s still the exact same lossless file. Literally the only defense that you can give is that you prefer having a physical object. Outside of that, there is no sound quality differences. Unless of course you’re Lossy streaming, which in that case this discussion is completely moot Apple and other companies are now streaming in a higher resolution than CDs, 24-bit, while CDs are still stuck with the original 16-bit resolution - totally inadequate in the modern world. That said, I still buy CDs. |
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Post by jk on Nov 13, 2021 9:28:47 GMT -5
I'm gradually -- and I do mean gradually -- warming to this album. It has all the makings of Brian's swan song.
In a better world he would stop now, after this instrumental farewell to the recording studio and to the fans who love his music.
It would make a wonderful and fitting end to his career.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Nov 13, 2021 12:08:43 GMT -5
Even if I’m not particularly on the same page, I can understand saying that vinyl is better than CDs. However, to this day I will never, ever understand the people who put down streaming or Digital downloads as inferior to CDs. It’s not, it’s literally the exact same. A lossless file on a hard drive, a Lossless file being pulled down from some server or a lossless file on a CD? It’s still the exact same lossless file. Literally the only defense that you can give is that you prefer having a physical object. Outside of that, there is no sound quality differences. Unless of course you’re Lossy streaming, which in that case this discussion is completely moot Apple and other companies are now streaming in a higher resolution than CDs, 24-bit, while CDs are still stuck with the original 16-bit resolution - totally inadequate in the modern world. That said, I still buy CDs. I would definitely not say that 16-bit is inadequate in today’s world, but again, what you’re saying here is completely true. I can’t tell you how many people who insist that digital files on a hard drive or being pulled down from a server are somehow more “compressed,” when that’s just not how it works at all. It just aggravates the hell out of me. Buy CDs, stream, do whatever you do, but don’t spread false information. If you’re streaming or digitally downloading a lossless file, you’re getting exactly what’s on the CD, if not more. |
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Post by Will/P.P. on Nov 13, 2021 13:04:01 GMT -5
I firmly do not believe Brian and his helpers should stop making new music in the studio.
If he wants to keep touring, playing sets of Beach Boys classics, I don't mind, but I don't
see myself sitting there watching live performances in person. I will continue to watch
shows and clips on YouTube, but that is far from an accurate picture of being there in the
audience. Those are being made with flip-phones with much to be desired sound. I saw
a YouTube clip-fest of the last Brian show I went to, and that proved that point to me. I
watched a recent show yesterday on YouTube. It was okay, but I bet it sounded so much
better from a seat at the venue.
This At My Piano stuff isn't exactly what I want - I believe Brian can still produce his great
vocals recorded in a studio. I love No Pier Pressure. The Las Vegas live Blu-ray/DVD was
a great snap-shot of where he was, at that time. I don't see evidence that was sweetened
in any way. It was professionally created.
I also enjoyed those films Brian made, with vocals, last year in his bedroom.
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Post by boogieboarder on Nov 13, 2021 13:08:58 GMT -5
Apple and other companies are now streaming in a higher resolution than CDs, 24-bit, while CDs are still stuck with the original 16-bit resolution - totally inadequate in the modern world. That said, I still buy CDs. I would definitely not say that 16-bit is inadequate in today’s world, but again, what you’re saying here is completely true. I can’t tell you how many people who insist that digital files on a hard drive or being pulled down from a server are somehow more “compressed,” when that’s just not how it works at all. It just aggravates the hell out of me. Buy CDs, stream, do whatever you do, but don’t spread false information. If you’re streaming or digitally downloading a lossless file, you’re getting exactly what’s on the CD, if not more. Yes. Lossless is at least as good as a CD. But even though Amazon.com is now streaming lossless, purchased downloaded music files on Amazon.com are still in mp3 format. My hard drive has lots of those, and also tons of purchased Apple iTunes files in MPEG-4 AAC (Advanced Audio Coding), a compression format on iTunes, also not lossless. I would guess that the majority of people’s hard drives do not have lossless files. |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Nov 13, 2021 14:05:10 GMT -5
I would definitely not say that 16-bit is inadequate in today’s world, but again, what you’re saying here is completely true. I can’t tell you how many people who insist that digital files on a hard drive or being pulled down from a server are somehow more “compressed,” when that’s just not how it works at all. It just aggravates the hell out of me. Buy CDs, stream, do whatever you do, but don’t spread false information. If you’re streaming or digitally downloading a lossless file, you’re getting exactly what’s on the CD, if not more. Yes. Lossless is at least as good as a CD. But even though Amazon.com is now streaming lossless, purchased downloaded music files on Amazon.com are still in mp3 format. My hard drive has lots of those, and also tons of purchased Apple iTunes files in MPEG-4 AAC (Advanced Audio Coding), a compression format on iTunes, also not lossless. I would guess that the majority of people’s hard drives do not have lossless files. Lossless 16-bit isn’t “at least as good as a CD”, it IS as good. Lossless means lossless. Nothing is lost from what’s on the the CD. When played, it is exactly the same as the CD. Same goes for 24 or 32bit files. They decompress to the exact original. I use both lossless and lossy. Lossless for archiving and playing in the house and mp3 V0 for my USB drive for in my car. I’m old, I rarely hear any difference between lossy and lossless files. You can fit a lot of mp3 music on a 64G USB drive. |
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Post by AGD on Nov 13, 2021 14:41:06 GMT -5
Dirk makes a very valid point: the vast majority of us here can't tell the difference. Personally speaking, even when my ears were better than they are now (I'm 66), I listened to the music, not the signal path.
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Post by jk on Nov 13, 2021 14:46:39 GMT -5
I think when all the stars are aligned, Vinyl has a better sounding 'resonance'. It's something there in the bottom end that seems to push the music to you. Like standing in front of a speaker and feeling the air.
That'll be the subsonic rumble of the stylus as it eats into the vinyl... and the turntable itself. Well it took a bit of effort on my part but I have to admit this is hilarious. Now I'll be laughing about it for the rest of the evening... |
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Post by E on Nov 13, 2021 17:44:55 GMT -5
Dirk makes a very valid point: the vast majority of us here can't tell the difference. Personally speaking, even when my ears were better than they are now (I'm 66), I listened to the music, not the signal path. Amen. In so many different ways. |
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Post by lonesurf on Nov 13, 2021 18:34:57 GMT -5
Dirk makes a very valid point: the vast majority of us here can't tell the difference. Personally speaking, even when my ears were better than they are now (I'm 66), I listened to the music, not the signal path. I agree. And you don’t look a day over 65!  |
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