|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 1, 2021 22:09:25 GMT -5
The Beach Boys Today came out in 1965 and did very well on the charts. Even though this is the case, it was quite a departure from the previous album All Summer Long. If one takes a closer look and listen, there is no sign of surfing or cars. Furthermore, the arrangements become much more complicated, and the subject matter become more introspective.
My question to ponder here is does the Today album get overlooked because of Pet Sounds? I will boldly say that Today is as good if not better than Pet Sounds. It is a concept album with upbeat songs on the first side and slow songs on the second. Additionally, the second side has a sequence of songs that to me, are better than anything they ever did. Please Let Me Wonder, I'm so Young, Kiss me Baby, and She knows me Too well are just about perfect in my opinion. It's only negative is the last track which is a throw away in my opinion.
To me this is the first album where the BB take the giant leap into more creative music. Pet Sounds might be the pinnacle of this, but I find myself listening to the Today album much more than Pet Sounds. Does it get overlooked because of Pet Sounds? Is Pet Sounds that much more superior than Today?
These topics are fun to ponder. Both albums are amazing, and it is really quite an accomplishment for a band to have two amazing albums such as these. To me Today is it. If I could have only one album, it would be Today. It was Brian Wilson's mind at the time, and who does not like the lush arrangements and harmonies? Just my opinion of course! Matt, BBTalk
|
|
|
Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jun 1, 2021 22:16:49 GMT -5
I think Brian became a better and more ambitious producer between Today and Pet Sounds. The songwriting is pretty comparable, but to me what separates the albums is the production.
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 1, 2021 22:20:03 GMT -5
That is a very good point I did not consider! Do you think the songs are better as well? Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jun 1, 2021 22:32:51 GMT -5
That is a very good point I did not consider! Do you think the songs are better as well? Thanks! I think the songwriting is pretty comparable. They're not recorded that far apart, of course -- we're talking almost an exactly two-year period of Today, Summer Days, and Pet Sounds. Pet Sounds was the fullest extent of the same type of songwriting Brian had been doing (with whomever he was writing with); it wasn't re-inventing the wheel, it was just pushing it all the way down that road.
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 1, 2021 22:34:52 GMT -5
You are correct! That is my point I guess. Pet Sounds gets all the adulation but it really started with Today. Thanks for your responses!
|
|
|
Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Jun 1, 2021 23:20:14 GMT -5
I think today lyrically pointed to where pet sounds would go, and summer days was the production leap. Today has songs like Please Let Me Wonder and In The Back of my Mind that lyrically could fit in right with other PS tracks, but The production is just too simplistic to fit on PS. Meanwhile, summer days has huge productions, like California girls, Salt Lake City, Summer Means New Love and let him run wild, but is lyrically stuck in their early days. PS is the best of both, today type Lyrics with summer days type ambitious production. As for being better than PS, in my opinion, it’s not even close. Good to my baby has never been one of my favorites, early Rhonda was re-recorded for a reason, I’m so Young is a good track but it’s not great, and the last spoken word piece on the album obviously deserves all the slander it gets. But definitely good album, and a major step forward even though I prefer the albums that surround it
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 1, 2021 23:27:29 GMT -5
Fair enough! But imagine Kiss Me Baby on Pet Sounds? Awesome!
|
|
|
Post by E on Jun 2, 2021 2:39:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure 'overlooked' is the right word, but I think a lot of it has to do with te fact there were two albums between it and Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 2, 2021 19:14:39 GMT -5
Yes but I think those two albums were regressive creatively.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 2, 2021 19:33:47 GMT -5
Yes but I think those two albums were regressive creatively. Nothing on Summer Days was as intense or powerful as that of side 2 of Today, but I wouldn’t call it regressive. Songs like California Girls, Let Him Run Wild are moving the needle ahead. Summer Days just rock and rolled a little harder than Today. And that’s a good thang! 😁
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 2, 2021 19:40:16 GMT -5
Yes but I think those two albums were regressive creatively. From a song choice POV, Party is arguably regressive creatively. Interesting though that there are still a few comparative selections between Party and Today, imo. On Today, they're still nodding their heads to the doo-wop with I'm So Young, revisited via There's No Other Like Why Baby on Party - while obviously not as dramatic as I'm So Young due to the mood, still an interesting expression of what inspired a good slab of their 60 years of music so far. I also think Barbara Ann on Party is a interesting continuation of the musical dialogue Brian started with Help Me, Ronda - a bluesy rough and rowdy evocation of lust and love that he concluded with I Know There's An Answer on Pet Sounds. Summer Days is definitely a production move forward creatively from a music POV - I agree there's some regressive lyrics, especially the gimmicky Parks and Salt Lake - California Girls is a little sophomoric after the deeper lyrical pleas, promises and wonderment of Today, but the melody and arrangements behind Summer Day pretty much blow away Today. That said, I think what's really appealing about the songs and lyricism and arrangements of Today is a real charm and engagement with the band across many outward focussed topics - a bit of a general dialogue, as opposed to the really heavy deep and meaningful tone of Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 2, 2021 19:56:05 GMT -5
Fair enough! But imagine Kiss Me Baby on Pet Sounds? Awesome! Which existing PS track would you consider removing in order to include Kiss Me?
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 2, 2021 20:12:10 GMT -5
Hey Dirk! Regressive might be the wrong word. Summer Days certainly is great, but to me it just does not flow as well as Today. It does not seem like there is cohesive theme. But yes, there are some great songs on that album!
|
|
|
Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 2, 2021 20:13:17 GMT -5
Fair enough! But imagine Kiss Me Baby on Pet Sounds? Awesome! Which existing PS track would you consider removing in order to include Kiss Me? That is a tough one! I am not a professional haha so I am going to cop out and say just add Kiss Me Baby to it! The point was that Kiss Me Baby sounds like a Pet Sounds track to me in its production and lyrics.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 2, 2021 20:23:03 GMT -5
Which existing PS track would you consider removing in order to include Kiss Me? That is a tough one! I am not a professional haha so I am going to cop out and say just add Kiss Me Baby to it! The point was that Kiss Me Baby sounds like a Pet Sounds track to me in its production and lyrics. LOL, ya chicken! I asked because I was running your suggestion through my head and trying to work out where I'd squeeze it in, or what I'd drop! It's very hard!
|
|
|
Post by lonelysummer on Jun 2, 2021 20:53:05 GMT -5
I hate how Pet Sounds is held up as the one time the Beach Boys made a classic album. Ask Beatles fans, which album is their greatest, and you're likely to get a response of Abbey Road, The Beatles, Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band, Revolver or Rubber Soul. I wish the wider world appreciated the BB's catalog as they do the Beatles. Beach Boys Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Wild Honey, Sunflower - all of these should be regulars on all time greatest album polls. I think Summer Days is the most underrated of the bunch, because, at least among the hardcores, we're all praising Today. I think the consensus here is spot on - more mature themes on Today - at least on side two; bigger productions on Summer Days; and then it all comes together on Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by donnylang on Jun 3, 2021 0:19:47 GMT -5
I don’t think Today is as good as Pet Sounds, even just side two. I love both records of course- but I think there’s a final bit of what you might call a 1950s-type influence that puts Today firmly between the early Beach Boys and Pet Sounds. I think Pet Sounds is a psychedelic record- that is the primary difference to me. The only song on Today that I think is on par is “In the Back of My Mind”- that track alone is leap and bounds ahead of most anything in 1965.
On some days, I prefer Summer Days over Pet Sounds however. That to me is the runner up.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 3, 2021 8:42:05 GMT -5
I have been a fan of this band since 1964 and while I like Pet Sounds, it has never been a favorite, nor would I include it in my Top 5 albums. It’s weird, because I like every song on the album and Wouldn’t It Be Nice is my favorite song by anyone. For some reason, I need to be in a certain mood to enjoy the album as a whole, whereas any of the other albums can be listened to at anytime. With Today, I enjoy the fast side, slow side and the general vibe of the album. There is something for everyone on The Beach Boys Today. It’s a growing up album that is mostly fun and positive, but also has the angst that comes from finding your way as a teenager.
|
|
|
Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jun 3, 2021 10:32:19 GMT -5
I don’t think Today is as good as Pet Sounds, even just side two. I love both records of course- but I think there’s a final bit of what you might call a 1950s-type influence that puts Today firmly between the early Beach Boys and Pet Sounds. I think Pet Sounds is a psychedelic record- that is the primary difference to me. The only song on Today that I think is on par is “In the Back of My Mind”- that track alone is leap and bounds ahead of most anything in 1965. On some days, I prefer Summer Days over Pet Sounds however. That to me is the runner up. This is very close to how I feel about it -- Today is tethered to a sort of conservatism that I actually love, but it holds the record down a bit. Like Donny mentioned, there's the last finger holding tight to things people had already done - 50s people and Spector. Even Kiss Me, Baby, which I absolutely love, is not quite there. Summer Days still clings, too, but the production is swinging around. Salt Lake City may have desperately unhip lyrics but I defy anyone to find an analogous production from anywhere before that.
|
|
|
Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jun 3, 2021 10:38:01 GMT -5
I don’t think Today is as good as Pet Sounds, even just side two. I love both records of course- but I think there’s a final bit of what you might call a 1950s-type influence that puts Today firmly between the early Beach Boys and Pet Sounds. I think Pet Sounds is a psychedelic record- that is the primary difference to me. The only song on Today that I think is on par is “In the Back of My Mind”- that track alone is leap and bounds ahead of most anything in 1965. On some days, I prefer Summer Days over Pet Sounds however. That to me is the runner up. This is very close to how I feel about it -- Today is tethered to a sort of conservatism that I actually love, but it holds the record down a bit. Like Donny mentioned, there's the last finger holding tight to things people had already done - 50s people and Spector. Even Kiss Me, Baby, which I absolutely love, is not quite there. Summer Days still clings, too, but the production is swinging around. Salt Lake City may have desperately unhip lyrics but I defy anyone to find an analogous production from anywhere before that. You all make listening to music seem complicated. 😉 For me, who is not a musician, all I need to make me happy are good songs sung well with instruments and a nice arrangement. We got all that in the album.
|
|
|
Post by E on Jun 3, 2021 11:19:02 GMT -5
Fair enough! But imagine Kiss Me Baby on Pet Sounds? Awesome! Which existing PS track would you consider removing in order to include Kiss Me? I'd prefer In the Back of My Mind, if I really had to pick one. To replace... I'm Waiting for the Day, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by Al S on Jun 3, 2021 17:06:16 GMT -5
Which existing PS track would you consider removing in order to include Kiss Me? I'd prefer In the Back of My Mind, if I really had to pick one. To replace... I'm Waiting for the Day, maybe. Ooooffff! Good choice on inclusion, but hard call on replacement. I think In The Back Of My Mind would have needed full band backing vocals to fit in, a delectable thought in itself!
|
|
|
Post by donnylang on Jun 3, 2021 18:24:52 GMT -5
I don’t think Today is as good as Pet Sounds, even just side two. I love both records of course- but I think there’s a final bit of what you might call a 1950s-type influence that puts Today firmly between the early Beach Boys and Pet Sounds. I think Pet Sounds is a psychedelic record- that is the primary difference to me. The only song on Today that I think is on par is “In the Back of My Mind”- that track alone is leap and bounds ahead of most anything in 1965. On some days, I prefer Summer Days over Pet Sounds however. That to me is the runner up. This is very close to how I feel about it -- Today is tethered to a sort of conservatism that I actually love, but it holds the record down a bit. Like Donny mentioned, there's the last finger holding tight to things people had already done - 50s people and Spector. Even Kiss Me, Baby, which I absolutely love, is not quite there. Summer Days still clings, too, but the production is swinging around. Salt Lake City may have desperately unhip lyrics but I defy anyone to find an analogous production from anywhere before that. Yes it’s hard for me to convey what I mean but it seems we’re on the same page. I think it’s fair to say even Pet Sounds has lounge or 1950s-early ‘60s influence but it was done in a masterful way that was ... yes, psychedelic or colorful or something. It’s just a kind of mastery in sound painting and feelings in music that is really unique. I don’t think anyone hit it before or since, including Brian. So I think the acclaim for Pet Sounds is well deserved, it’s not overrated IMO. Believe it or not, the song that kind of signals strange things on Summer Days is “Amusement Parks USA”. It’s really getting into a spooky bizarre production ... almost like Brian was just on a TRIP, and it came in and he rode it to Pet Sounds and “Good Vibrations”, then kind of crashed. To me, “In the Back of My Mind” was the first ... and I don’t hear this much elsewhere on Today. Even Kiss Me Baby to me is just not in the realm of Pet Sounds at all. I hear it more on stuff like “Salt Lake City” like you say. And as great as “Let Him Run Wild” is ... you’re right it’s still holding onto something else ... Lawrence Welk, Murry, whatever it might be. Totally like magic- this stuff is gone on Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by donnylang on Jun 3, 2021 18:30:31 GMT -5
I’ll also add that “In the Back of My Mind” and “Girl Don’t Tell Me” are probably my two favorite BB songs- I like them more than any individual song on Pet Sounds.
|
|
|
Post by donnylang on Jun 3, 2021 18:31:46 GMT -5
... oh also- I think “Ronda” and the spoken track really hold Today back. Pet Sounds is great start to finish, and Summer Days almost is.
|
|