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Post by mattbbtalk on May 5, 2021 9:37:25 GMT -5
On Beach Boys Talk last night one topic we discussed was the Beach Boys and the use of the Wrecking Crew. There is no doubt that the Wrecking Crew, as they came to be known, created some of the best Beach Boys records ever. Brian Wilson was able to take his music and productions to new heights because he had the musicians to do it. However, did this harm the Beach Boys? A lot is discussed about the Beach Boys becoming "unhip", and it is easy to find reviews disparaging their live performances. Common belief is that the Beach Boys became unpopular due to cultural changes in the country. Though this is true, did the fact that the Beach Boys were still playing Barbara Ann, Graduation Day, and Surfin Safari during this time have any effect, because playing their new records with fidelity was difficult?
I guess the thought I had for my friends on this board is would the Beach Boys have been able to perform on all the records with success? If they did perform on the records instead of the wrecking crew, would that have made their live performances sound closer to the records, and thus continue their relevance in the late sixties?
I know that some members of the band at times performed on the records during the pinnacle of the wrecking crew years(Particularly Carl). When I listen to the Beach Boys live performances pre Pet sounds the performances are exciting and raw, but still sound like the record to some extent. It seems like the live performances from 1966 and 1967 especially are lacking because it was virtually impossible to reproduce the sounds of the records.
I do not want to ramble too much here. I am just curious about everyone's thoughts. Did having the wrecking crew on their records hurt their live performances? Could the Beach Boys have handled the studio playing if they were allowed to do so? I know these are what-ifs, but fun to think about in my opinion.
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Post by wontlastforever on May 5, 2021 10:31:39 GMT -5
I've often wondered this myself - whether the faithful re-creation of Pet Sounds and Smile-era songs would have been an impossibility live without the larger touring band they later morphed into. Listening to the UM of the Today album - there are songs like When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) where the Beach Boys sans Wrecking Crew were struggling to nail it - 30 to 40 takes if I recall correctly. But what an album!
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Departed
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2021 11:56:29 GMT -5
I really enjoy this topic. The Beatles never did a tour to support sergeant pepper.
There is a big difference between orchestral music arranged by a rock and roll pop music composer like Brian and a series of rock and roll songs by a bunch of teenage kids in their garage so to speak in Hawthorne California
Was it difficult to try to replicate complicated arrangements without the giant orchestra that we saw a put together on 2012: yes. I think even Mike has said that the 2012 beach boy orchestra is the best that has ever been assembled.
I am completely content when I watch The Beach Boys comprised of Brian and Carl and Dennis and Dave and Mike sang surfin safari at the Azusa boys club.
Keith Moon thought that pet sounds was a betrayal of The Beach Boys surf music, and there's no resolution or answer other than to appreciate all the different manifestations.
Think of Frank Zappa who wrote black tie style formal classical concert music and also wrote hard core rock and roll and also silly baudy songs. You put on a record or an anthologie and you listened to this and that , and if you enjoy the artist for their larger ambitions in sharing their art and joy, then you listen to all of it and embrace it
I never really like the idea of The Beach Boys themselves being removed in favor of other musicians but that's exactly what happens in the music industry when you can't play complicated written parts
If the 6 beach boys at the time played unplugged really closely studied thoughtful arrangements of everything from pet sounds on the instruments that they had I think it would have worked out just fine
The available performances such as good vibration I think on the at Sullivan show or whatever, show kind of a psychedelic performance, indicates that the band is playing very weakly and very poorly and barely replicates the recorded version
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Post by nts1drums on May 5, 2021 11:57:30 GMT -5
For me, that depends. Live performances in general aren’t going to sound exactly like the original tracks done by the Wrecking Crew (take Windy as an example). For what it’s worth, the band tries very hard to get as close to the original as possible. It’s pretty much its own thing. However - to me at least - it’s still very good and definitely doesn’t leave me disappointed. To me, what matters is that they try and succeed. In some cases it’s easier because they actually use some Wrecking Crew members for touring (Simon & Garfunkel!!!).
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on May 5, 2021 11:59:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the question is here; is it "should Brian have dumbed down his creativity so the songs would be easier to play on the road?" I would think the answer to that is obvious.
If the question is "could the Beach Boys have handled playing all the records" I still think the answer is easy. I think the decision to use the studio musicians was influenced by the fact that the band wasn't always around. Some of it was expanding the arrangements, of course. And of course, the Beach Boys had a long history of bringing in people to play things they didn't play themselves (Jay and Steve on Sax being the best and earliest example of this). The boys handled That's Not Me just fine, and tracks like that and like the in-house version of Sandy/Sherry show that they can sound close enough to the session people.
So where do you draw the line with this way of thinking? Should they never have allowed Jay and Steve to add saxes to anything because Mike couldn't handle it? The Mamas and the Papas never struggled with being hip enough or whether they could play their songs on the road, and they didn't even play anything (Papa John aside.)
And by '67 they'd started to hire people to help them live anyway. By 68 and 69 they were often augmented with a large horn section and a few extra rhythm players.
So we are really only talking about performing like 5 songs that were largely Studio musicians on the records: Good Vibrations, California Girls, Wouldn't It Be Nice, God Only Knows, and to some extent Sloop John B, from the first post Pet Sounds tour through 68 before they start augmenting their sound. That hardly seems like a make or break scenario to me.
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Post by filledeplage on May 5, 2021 14:21:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the question is here; is it "should Brian have dumbed down his creativity so the songs would be easier to play on the road?" I would think the answer to that is obvious. If the question is "could the Beach Boys have handled playing all the records" I still think the answer is easy. I think the decision to use the studio musicians was influenced by the fact that the band wasn't always around. Some of it was expanding the arrangements, of course. And of course, the Beach Boys had a long history of bringing in people to play things they didn't play themselves (Jay and Steve on Sax being the best and earliest example of this). The boys handled That's Not Me just fine, and tracks like that and like the in-house version of Sandy/Sherry show that they can sound close enough to the session people. So where do you draw the line with this way of thinking? Should they never have allowed Jay and Steve to add saxes to anything because Mike couldn't handle it? The Mamas and the Papas never struggled with being hip enough or whether they could play their songs on the road, and they didn't even play anything (Papa John aside.) And by '67 they'd started to hire people to help them live anyway. By 68 and 69 they were often augmented with a large horn section and a few extra rhythm players. So we are really only talking about performing like 5 songs that were largely Studio musicians on the records: Good Vibrations, California Girls, Wouldn't It Be Nice, God Only Knows, and to some extent Sloop John B, from the first post Pet Sounds tour through 68 before they start augmenting their sound. That hardly seems like a make or break scenario to me. Wrecking Crew or some functional equivalent - was an music industry standard. Anyone who sees the film will recognize the universal respect from those very prominent and successful musicians. And, it was time-efficient to help fulfill contractual obligations to the record company. They had to keep turning out releasable work. Two months off the grid could kill a musician or band. Being on the airwaves, and on the charts, continuously, was the only way to remain viable. They were hardly incompetent playing on stage - I even saw Mike play the theremin (or a similar board) around the time they were adding support musicians. There is hardly any shame in prepping the instrumentals to add the vocals when the band returned from touring. They could hardly be on the road and in the studio at once. They were good but could hardly be in two places at once. I remember Ron Brown and The Captain (Daryl Dragon from late ‘67. I’ve seen the Paris show video (with Murry in the audience) - not the UNICEF show, but the one with Murry in the audience, had a pretty big group of musicians. Were the songs stripped down or arranged for touring to ease them into the newer songs? In late November ‘67, they did Wild Honey, already a released single, and performed Darlin’ (not yet on the radio.) Live music performance is to theater, what filming a movie is to recording in the studio.
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Post by Mikie on May 5, 2021 14:31:42 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a recording of Mike on stage in 1966 complaining that he had to go find a fire hydrant, he was so nervous at playing/singing Good Vibrations for the first time. He had to play the Tannerin (woo-woo machine) and that wasn't an easy task to play and sing at the same time. The guitar acted as the Cello live. Didn't Brian have to fly to Michigan or Wisconsin at the time to rehearse the song with them?
It took them until around November 1967 to realize that they needed help, hiring sidemen Ed Carter, Daryl Dragon, Ron Brown, Mike Kowalski, Ernie Small, and a small horn section to take the load off the band and help to reproduce the sound of the records on stage during that late 60's era.
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Post by filledeplage on May 5, 2021 14:42:52 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a recording of Mike on stage in 1966 complaining that he had to go find a fire hydrant, he was so nervous at playing/singing Good Vibrations for the first time. He had to play the Tannerin (woo-woo machine) and that wasn't an easy task to play and sing at the same time. The guitar acted as the Cello live. Didn't Brian have to fly to Michigan or Wisconsin at the time to rehearse the song with them? It took them until around November 1967 to realize that they needed help, hiring sidemen Ed Carter, Daryl Dragon, Ron Brown, Mike Kowalski, Ernie Small, and a small horn section to take the load off the band and help to reproduce the sound of the records on stage during that late 60's era. Mikie - you would never know it he was nervous. Mike just got it done. He was handling the MC and having to fill time when guitar strings broke, and the band had to fix it on-the-fly right on stage. There were no magic guitar techs handling that. Mikie - do you know who is on the congas? Wasn’t there something type of provision in place in Europe where they had to hire local support musicians?
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on May 5, 2021 15:23:17 GMT -5
They did go with local musicians in Europe for a little while before they sorted out their sort of full time group. I don't remember the timeline though.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on May 5, 2021 22:34:04 GMT -5
The group did expand during the 67 onward era. I found it kind of demoralizing when after seeing them for the first time in 1978 and then again in 1979, they decided to drastically cut down the size of their band for the 1980 tour. They actually had Bruce's friend Joe Chemay replace Eddie Carter on bass, and had Mike Meros play (or try to since it was just him) all of the horn parts on keyboards. CBS saw the group and told them they needed more musicians on stage that they had cut too much. Eddie was asked back to play guitar (both lead and rhythm) because Al just didn't play on every song. Watch this clip of the group from the FRIDAY show in 1980. Carl is carrying most of the lead and rhythm parts, as well as playing the bass line on some tunes. Eventually, Joe left and Eddie moved back to bass (by the time they played Washington on July 4th but after Knebworth on June 21). Their sound thinned out again.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 8:18:41 GMT -5
They did go with local musicians in Europe for a little while before they sorted out their sort of full time group. I don't remember the timeline though. In May of 1967, contemporaneous to Carl's arrest/release, and passport release by the LA federal court, a few days later, in Badman, "Further problems befall the group, when the British Musicians' Union prevents them from augmenting their act with the extra musicians they have brought from America. The four-piece band consists o Igor Horoshevsky (cello), Frank St. Peters (saxophone, flute, clarinet) and Jim Carther (flute, saxophone) Igor and Co are able to perform on the non-UK dates on the tour." From Rusten/Stebbins "4/26/1967...prior to this show, Carl was arrested in NYC by FBI agents and charged with draft evasion. He posted bail and was released in time for the show. His arrest threw a cloud over the group's future and threatened to disrupt an upcoming European tour. The Selective Service Board informed Carl that they were opposed to letting him leave the country with the group." It was national headline and he was slammed as an entitled draft dodger. I pay attention to details here, because I saw them on April 28th, and it was well-noted in the papers and reviews.
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Shawn
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Post by Shawn on May 6, 2021 8:27:31 GMT -5
Concert technology was still at its infancy in 1966-1967, with outdated/underpowered PA systems, lack of stage monitors, rudimentary mixing boards etc. so it didn’t matter who played on the studio material - if it was complex it just wouldn’t translate well to a live setting. Check out other same-era pop/rock live albums for examples - The Rolling Stones Got Live If You Want It or The Kinks Live At Kelvin Hall for just two examples. It wasn’t until The Stones tour of 1969 where rock tour audio was starting to be taken seriously.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 8:45:35 GMT -5
Concert technology was still at its infancy in 1966-1967, with outdated/underpowered PA systems, lack of stage monitors, rudimentary mixing boards etc. so it didn’t matter who played on the studio material - if it was complex it just wouldn’t translate well to a live setting. Check out other same-era pop/rock live albums for examples - The Rolling Stones Got Live If You Want It or The Kinks Live At Kelvin Hall for just two examples. It wasn’t until The Stones tour of 1969 where rock tour audio was starting to be taken seriously. That is an interesting point. A lot of the venues were movie theaters or general purpose auditoria which were used for plays, sporting events and the like where that kind of concert tech was un-developed. It was a new revenue stream for them. You didn't high quality sound to announce college basketball or even pro-hockey scores. But these acts needed sound pros and equipment. "Acoustics" became a highly-used term in the late 60s.
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Post by mfp on May 6, 2021 8:47:53 GMT -5
I think it's telling that none of the live shows recorded and considered for release between "Beach Boys Concert" and "Live in London" materialised contemporaneously.
I recall Mark Linett remarking in an issue of ESQ that the band were sensitive about their live shows of that era.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 8:55:31 GMT -5
I think it's telling that none of the live shows recorded and considered for release between "Beach Boys Concert" and "Live in London" materialised contemporaneously.
I recall Mark Linett remarking in an issue of ESQ that the band were sensitive about their live shows of that era.
For the life of me - I will not ever understand that. I think that was a huge strategic mistake-not to maintain the prior momentum during that time. Before that time - no one asked the question, "When are you releasing a new album?" There were certainly enough shows from venues of symphony groups, which had great building acoustics. And fans were expecting something every few months because that pace was set by the band in the mid 60s. Better a recent live show, even a combo of highlights, from different regions, in the manner that Sunshine Tomorrow was set up, than an oldie repack in my opinion. You always have that "OMG - I was there" effect to promote and propel sales.
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Shawn
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Post by Shawn on May 6, 2021 9:07:09 GMT -5
The group did expand during the 67 onward era. I found it kind of demoralizing when after seeing them for the first time in 1978 and then again in 1979, they decided to drastically cut down the size of their band for the 1980 tour. They actually had Bruce's friend Joe Chemay replace Eddie Carter on bass, and had Mike Meros play (or try to since it was just him) all of the horn parts on keyboards. CBS saw the group and told them they needed more musicians on stage that they had cut too much. Eddie was asked back to play guitar (both lead and rhythm) because Al just didn't play on every song. Watch this clip of the group from the FRIDAY show in 1980. Carl is carrying most of the lead and rhythm parts, as well as playing the bass line on some tunes. Eventually, Joe left and Eddie moved back to bass (by the time they played Washington on July 4th but after Knebworth on June 21). Their sound thinned out again.
Do you know who is playing drums? Asking more because I find it curious he’s using Dennis’ kit.
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Post by WillJC on May 6, 2021 9:09:51 GMT -5
The first time the group tried to bring along some other musicians to augment the band was actually Spring 1967. According to a Derek Taylor article, the others coming to Europe were Igor Horoshevsky (cello), Frank Peters (woodwinds), Jim Carther (woodwinds), and Richard Thompson (keyboards/flugelhorn/woodwinds). Not sure if they ever ended up getting on stage because of some union problems. They'd planned to do the same in late '66, but it didn't come to fruition at the time.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 9:24:30 GMT -5
The first time the group tried to bring along some other musicians to augment the band was actually Spring 1967. According to a Derek Taylor article, the others coming to Europe were Igor Horoshevsky (cello), Frank Peters (woodwinds), Jim Carther (woodwinds), and Richard Thompson (keyboards/flugelhorn/woodwinds). Not sure if they ended up actually getting on stage because of some union problems. They'd planned to do the same in late '66, but it didn't come to fruition at the time. So - how could the promoters or managers or the record company who snuck this Then I Kissed Her tour - so inappropriate in the Spring of 1967 - a whole year post Pet Sounds - not know the regulations for unions? Were they taking advantage of the chaos of Carl's arrest? Were they uninformed or did they just try to pull a fast one and get past the regs? They knew what a union curfew was in the States. As between the record company execs who staged this tour - with the band (or Brian) pretty unawares, it seems pretty arrogant and disrespectful. Derek Taylor did not know UK procedures for shows? Sounds highly unlikely. Did anyone talk to each other? Even local venue shows have provisions for "hiring the local stage union members."
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Post by Mikie on May 6, 2021 10:26:20 GMT -5
The first time the group tried to bring along some other musicians to augment the band was actually Spring 1967. According to a Derek Taylor article, the others coming to Europe were Igor Horoshevsky (cello), Frank Peters (woodwinds), Jim Carther (woodwinds), and Richard Thompson (keyboards/flugelhorn/woodwinds). Not sure if they ever ended up getting on stage because of some union problems. They'd planned to do the same in late '66, but it didn't come to fruition at the time. They didn't have any sidemen with them when they went to Hawaii (sans Bruce) for two concerts in August, 1967. But they did have sidemen with them for the '67 Thanksgiving tour in November.
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Post by andrewhickey on May 6, 2021 10:42:22 GMT -5
I don't know the details of precisely what happened with the 1967 tour, but I can tell you generally what kind of thing will have happened. Basically, there was sort of a cold war between the British Musicians' Union and the American Federation of Musicians for most of the middle of the twentieth century. In 1934 the Musicians' Union kicked up a fuss about Duke Ellington's band coming to the UK and taking "British jobs", and basically for the next several decades instrumentalists from one country couldn't perform in the other at all. So for example, when the 1930s British bandleader Ray Noble performed in the US, he could perform (because he was a conductor, not an instrumentalist) but he wasn't allowed to bring over his own orchestra -- he had to use one made up of American musicians (led by Glenn Miller). In the early fifties, Johnnie Ray could tour the UK, but had to be backed by British musicians, and when Lonnie Donegan had a hit in the US, he not only had to be backed by American musicians (in his case, Johnny Burnette and the Rock & Roll Trio) he wasn't allowed to play guitar himself either. That started to change in 1955, when the AFM and the MU came to a strict one-in/one-out agreement -- musicians from one country could perform in the other, but only if they were special stars doing something that local musicians couldn't do, and only if there was a like-for-like swap, with one musician from the UK going to the US for every one US musician coming over here. So for example when Louis Armstrong came over to the UK in 1955, someone had to set up a US tour for Freddie Randall, a trumpeter from Devon. This meant that American singer/instrumentalists like Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis could come and perform over here, but it generally still meant that their bands couldn't, because they weren't doing anything that British musicians couldn't do (which is why for example Eddie Cochran was backed by Marty Wilde's Wildcats, or Little Richard by Sounds Incorporated, when they came over here in the early sixties, and why so many American blues artists toured backed by Chris Barber's band). That loosened up more as the sixties progressed -- which is one big reason why that's when the "British Invasion" happened, because that's when British bands were finally allowed to play in the US at all -- but until 1980 it was still technically on a one-in/one-out rule and still only for individuals for whom there was a specific audience demand. Obviously some arrangement was made to have the Beach Boys tour the UK in return for a similarly-popular British band being able to tour the US, but presumably that arrangement wasn't deemed by the union to cover the cellist and woodwind players. It's quite possible that nobody involved realised any rules were being broken -- it's perfectly plausible that the people applying for Musicians' Union waivers thought that the waiver would cover all the musicians, while the MU thought they were only giving permission for the Beach Boys themselves. British tours by American rock bands, as opposed to singers performing with local hired backing bands, had basically never happened in 1967, other than the Beach Boys. There'd been the Crickets a decade earlier, and the Turtles toured the UK around this time, there was Dylan's first electric tour in 1966, and I think the Byrds played the UK too in 65 or 66. But that was basically it -- there might have been a handful more, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Everything else was Sam Cooke or Mary Wilson or Roy Orbison or someone coming over here and performing with local backing musicians. It's entirely possible, then, that that 1967 tour was the first time ever that a rock band from the US had tried to tour the UK with additional musicians who weren't members of the band. If it wasn't the first, it was still something far, far, out of the ordinary. In that situation, it's not at all surprising that someone might have messed up.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 10:58:51 GMT -5
The first time the group tried to bring along some other musicians to augment the band was actually Spring 1967. According to a Derek Taylor article, the others coming to Europe were Igor Horoshevsky (cello), Frank Peters (woodwinds), Jim Carther (woodwinds), and Richard Thompson (keyboards/flugelhorn/woodwinds). Not sure if they ever ended up getting on stage because of some union problems. They'd planned to do the same in late '66, but it didn't come to fruition at the time. They didn't have any sidemen with them when they went to Hawaii (sans Bruce) for two concerts in August, 1967. But they did have sidemen with them for the '67 Thanksgiving tour in November. Yes they did. I clearly remember The Captain - Daryl Dragon, and Ron Brown.
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Post by filledeplage on May 6, 2021 11:08:27 GMT -5
I don't know the details of precisely what happened with the 1967 tour, but I can tell you generally what kind of thing will have happened. Basically, there was sort of a cold war between the British Musicians' Union and the American Federation of Musicians for most of the middle of the twentieth century. In 1934 the Musicians' Union kicked up a fuss about Duke Ellington's band coming to the UK and taking "British jobs", and basically for the next several decades instrumentalists from one country couldn't perform in the other at all. So for example, when the 1930s British bandleader Ray Noble performed in the US, he could perform (because he was a conductor, not an instrumentalist) but he wasn't allowed to bring over his own orchestra -- he had to use one made up of American musicians (led by Glenn Miller). In the early fifties, Johnnie Ray could tour the UK, but had to be backed by British musicians, and when Lonnie Donegan had a hit in the US, he not only had to be backed by American musicians (in his case, Johnny Burnette and the Rock & Roll Trio) he wasn't allowed to play guitar himself either. That started to change in 1955, when the AFM and the MU came to a strict one-in/one-out agreement -- musicians from one country could perform in the other, but only if they were special stars doing something that local musicians couldn't do, and only if there was a like-for-like swap, with one musician from the UK going to the US for every one US musician coming over here. So for example when Louis Armstrong came over to the UK in 1955, someone had to set up a US tour for Freddie Randall, a trumpeter from Devon. This meant that American singer/instrumentalists like Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis could come and perform over here, but it generally still meant that their bands couldn't, because they weren't doing anything that British musicians couldn't do (which is why for example Eddie Cochran was backed by Marty Wilde's Wildcats, or Little Richard by Sounds Incorporated, when they came over here in the early sixties, and why so many American blues artists toured backed by Chris Barber's band). That loosened up more as the sixties progressed -- which is one big reason why that's when the "British Invasion" happened, because that's when British bands were finally allowed to play in the US at all -- but until 1980 it was still technically on a one-in/one-out rule and still only for individuals for whom there was a specific audience demand. Obviously some arrangement was made to have the Beach Boys tour the UK in return for a similarly-popular British band being able to tour the US, but presumably that arrangement wasn't deemed by the union to cover the cellist and woodwind players. It's quite possible that nobody involved realised any rules were being broken -- it's perfectly plausible that the people applying for Musicians' Union waivers thought that the waiver would cover all the musicians, while the MU thought they were only giving permission for the Beach Boys themselves. British tours by American rock bands, as opposed to singers performing with local hired backing bands, had basically never happened in 1967, other than the Beach Boys. There'd been the Crickets a decade earlier, and the Turtles toured the UK around this time, there was Dylan's first electric tour in 1966, and I think the Byrds played the UK too in 65 or 66. But that was basically it -- there might have been a handful more, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Everything else was Sam Cooke or Mary Wilson or Roy Orbison or someone coming over here and performing with local backing musicians. It's entirely possible, then, that that 1967 tour was the first time ever that a rock band from the US had tried to tour the UK with additional musicians who weren't members of the band. If it wasn't the first, it was still something far, far, out of the ordinary. In that situation, it's not at all surprising that someone might have messed up. Unions are all about "who does the jobs." That is 100% correct. That said, there are other issues, such as getting visas for entry. But, what seems bizarre is that the support musicians almost become an indispensable part of the group, because it would seem that they would have rehearsed with the band, and knew the timing and the cues. It is not a fungible thing such as a bag of wheat or a dollar where they are a direct exchange and considered an equal exchange. People are not fungible although they could have a similar skill set. Thank you for that history. If the guys at the top of the food chain did not know the rules, they should have. Everyone was certainly not on the same page and it was somebody's job in the industry to do that.
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Post by wontlastforever on May 6, 2021 13:57:59 GMT -5
I don't know the details of precisely what happened with the 1967 tour, but I can tell you generally what kind of thing will have happened. Basically, there was sort of a cold war between the British Musicians' Union and the American Federation of Musicians for most of the middle of the twentieth century. In 1934 the Musicians' Union kicked up a fuss about Duke Ellington's band coming to the UK and taking "British jobs", and basically for the next several decades instrumentalists from one country couldn't perform in the other at all. So for example, when the 1930s British bandleader Ray Noble performed in the US, he could perform (because he was a conductor, not an instrumentalist) but he wasn't allowed to bring over his own orchestra -- he had to use one made up of American musicians (led by Glenn Miller). In the early fifties, Johnnie Ray could tour the UK, but had to be backed by British musicians, and when Lonnie Donegan had a hit in the US, he not only had to be backed by American musicians (in his case, Johnny Burnette and the Rock & Roll Trio) he wasn't allowed to play guitar himself either. That started to change in 1955, when the AFM and the MU came to a strict one-in/one-out agreement -- musicians from one country could perform in the other, but only if they were special stars doing something that local musicians couldn't do, and only if there was a like-for-like swap, with one musician from the UK going to the US for every one US musician coming over here. So for example when Louis Armstrong came over to the UK in 1955, someone had to set up a US tour for Freddie Randall, a trumpeter from Devon. This meant that American singer/instrumentalists like Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis could come and perform over here, but it generally still meant that their bands couldn't, because they weren't doing anything that British musicians couldn't do (which is why for example Eddie Cochran was backed by Marty Wilde's Wildcats, or Little Richard by Sounds Incorporated, when they came over here in the early sixties, and why so many American blues artists toured backed by Chris Barber's band). That loosened up more as the sixties progressed -- which is one big reason why that's when the "British Invasion" happened, because that's when British bands were finally allowed to play in the US at all -- but until 1980 it was still technically on a one-in/one-out rule and still only for individuals for whom there was a specific audience demand. Obviously some arrangement was made to have the Beach Boys tour the UK in return for a similarly-popular British band being able to tour the US, but presumably that arrangement wasn't deemed by the union to cover the cellist and woodwind players. It's quite possible that nobody involved realised any rules were being broken -- it's perfectly plausible that the people applying for Musicians' Union waivers thought that the waiver would cover all the musicians, while the MU thought they were only giving permission for the Beach Boys themselves. British tours by American rock bands, as opposed to singers performing with local hired backing bands, had basically never happened in 1967, other than the Beach Boys. There'd been the Crickets a decade earlier, and the Turtles toured the UK around this time, there was Dylan's first electric tour in 1966, and I think the Byrds played the UK too in 65 or 66. But that was basically it -- there might have been a handful more, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Everything else was Sam Cooke or Mary Wilson or Roy Orbison or someone coming over here and performing with local backing musicians. It's entirely possible, then, that that 1967 tour was the first time ever that a rock band from the US had tried to tour the UK with additional musicians who weren't members of the band. If it wasn't the first, it was still something far, far, out of the ordinary. In that situation, it's not at all surprising that someone might have messed up. Great background detail! This is one of the reasons I love this place. Any idea about how Jimi Hendrix managed to get around this ruling? Due to actually moving to London and living here in the UK?
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Post by andrewhickey on May 6, 2021 20:43:40 GMT -5
Any idea about how Jimi Hendrix managed to get around this ruling? Due to actually moving to London and living here in the UK? I don't know for sure, but I imagine that might be why. The other thing, though, is that it was paradoxically much easier for relative unknowns, because they wouldn't come to the union's attention. There was quite a lot of back and forth on the folk scene, for example, with Bob Dylan, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Paul Simon, and Peggy Seeger all coming to Britain for extended periods of time (before Dylan and Simon became famous) and playing the folk clubs, with no union trouble that I know of, so as Hendrix was unknown at the time it may just have been that nobody bothered (until he became big, at which point of course he would qualify for the exceptional star rules). A tour by a band that was one of the two or three biggest in the world at that time would obviously be far more likely to come to the union's attention than some club gigs by a complete unknown.
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Post by ian on May 6, 2021 22:00:47 GMT -5
Hendrix band was British anyways so it’s not like he tried to bring American musicians to the UK
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