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Post by wontlastforever on May 7, 2021 2:23:09 GMT -5
I don't know for sure, but I imagine that might be why. The other thing, though, is that it was paradoxically much easier for relative unknowns, because they wouldn't come to the union's attention. There was quite a lot of back and forth on the folk scene, for example, with Bob Dylan, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Paul Simon, and Peggy Seeger all coming to Britain for extended periods of time (before Dylan and Simon became famous) and playing the folk clubs, with no union trouble that I know of, so as Hendrix was unknown at the time it may just have been that nobody bothered (until he became big, at which point of course he would qualify for the exceptional star rules). A tour by a band that was one of the two or three biggest in the world at that time would obviously be far more likely to come to the union's attention than some club gigs by a complete unknown. OK, so there were some that managed to get around the rules then due to not being too widely known. Still, an interesting situation that continued for quite a while.
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on May 7, 2021 5:45:00 GMT -5
The Wrecking Crew being over-credited with “playing on all The Beach Boys records” is the only reason any of this matters. Countless bands have brought along extra musicians on tour. Even U2 has an additional guitarist/keyboardist buried under the stage. The Ramones had extra guitarists playing offstage too. And these are just non-obvious examples. Pink Floyd was touring with an expanded lineup as far back as 1973.
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rjm
Kahuna
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Post by rjm on May 7, 2021 18:24:23 GMT -5
The group did expand during the 67 onward era. I found it kind of demoralizing when after seeing them for the first time in 1978 and then again in 1979, they decided to drastically cut down the size of their band for the 1980 tour. They actually had Bruce's friend Joe Chemay replace Eddie Carter on bass, and had Mike Meros play (or try to since it was just him) all of the horn parts on keyboards. CBS saw the group and told them they needed more musicians on stage that they had cut too much. Eddie was asked back to play guitar (both lead and rhythm) because Al just didn't play on every song. Watch this clip of the group from the FRIDAY show in 1980. Carl is carrying most of the lead and rhythm parts, as well as playing the bass line on some tunes. Eventually, Joe left and Eddie moved back to bass (by the time they played Washington on July 4th but after Knebworth on June 21). Their sound thinned out again.
Do you know who is playing drums? Asking more because I find it curious he’s using Dennis’ kit. Bobby Figueroa
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Post by filledeplage on May 8, 2021 8:33:01 GMT -5
Do you know who is playing drums? Asking more because I find it curious he’s using Dennis’ kit. Bobby Figueroa Love your album cover art! Gave me a chuckle! Thanks!
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Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 9, 2021 10:16:32 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts! I understand BW was known for his great productions, but he is a brilliant songwriter. I assume the songs stand on their own, and they could have made it with just the Beach Boys performing on the records. I love the wrecking crew and their contributions. But I do think it made it difficult for the BB to reproduce those records for a number of years.
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Departed
Former Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 18:57:45 GMT -5
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Post by Bruce’s Shorts on Jun 12, 2021 21:20:59 GMT -5
They were a help. A hindrance maybe when it comes to music journalists and some casual fans misunderstanding/misrepresenting the band’s history, but how much does that really matter? The Beach Boys have far proven their worth as a collective well beyond “who played or didn’t play what” on the records, and there’s not a single Beach Boy who contributed nothing while Wrecking Crew guys did all the work.
Brian was operating on a level far beyond what any typical rock ensemble setup was doing at the time, so additional means were necessary. End of story.
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Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 15, 2021 10:15:31 GMT -5
Fair enough! I just thought it was an interesting topic. It would be interesting to hear their most famous records without the wrecking crew because I believe the songs of Brian Wilson stand on their own. A fun thought experiment, but you are correct, history is history so it does not really matter.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 15, 2021 10:23:21 GMT -5
Fair enough! I just thought it was an interesting topic. It would be interesting to hear their most famous records without the wrecking crew because I believe the songs of Brian Wilson stand on their own. A fun thought experiment, but you are correct, history is history so it does not really matter. They were the industry standard at that point. I think all those musicians had something - an embellishment of one kind or another - for the purpose of the very important studio work before the vocals were added by the band members. Of course they had to learn the music to perform on the road but I think the Wrecking Crew should have its’ props - notwithstanding any random hyperbole that leaks out - they are individuals - with ups and downs just like everyone else. They seemed to absolutely love working for Brian. And other legendary music star contemporaries rave about them as well. Of course they stand on their own merit but studio work was a job playing all kinds of music.
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 15, 2021 18:49:02 GMT -5
The Beatles were in a slightly similar situation in 1966. Although they continued to play their own instruments on their albums, they overdubbed themselves constantly, and also started bringing in outside orchestral instruments and some studio players. Their solution was to perform mainly earlier songs, and only a few of the simpler later songs. On TV, they did use a string section for “Yesterday.” But ultimately they gave up touring all together after their Summer 1966 US tour. This was due to poor PA equipment that didn’t allow them to hear their own playing over screaming fans, as well as not being able to reproduce their current sound on stage. Later Paul McCartney solved both these problems when performing as a solo artist for the last 5 decades.
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Post by mattbbtalk on Jun 15, 2021 22:26:28 GMT -5
That is very interesting. I think it was brave of the Beach Boys to continue touring, and they finally expanded their band. Maybe the Beatles should have done the same, though they broke up so it did not happen.
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Post by lonelysummer on Jun 16, 2021 21:55:10 GMT -5
The Beatles were in a slightly similar situation in 1966. Although they continued to play their own instruments on their albums, they overdubbed themselves constantly, and also started bringing in outside orchestral instruments and some studio players. Their solution was to perform mainly earlier songs, and only a few of the simpler later songs. On TV, they did use a string section for “Yesterday.” But ultimately they gave up touring all together after their Summer 1966 US tour. This was due to poor PA equipment that didn’t allow them to hear their own playing over screaming fans, as well as not being able to reproduce their current sound on stage. Later Paul McCartney solved both these problems when performing as a solo artist for the last 5 decades. I would say even during the Wings years, that problem had been solved. Look at the Rock Show film; they're playing huge places like the Kingdome in Seattle, yet there is absolutely no issue with crowd noise drowning out the band. In fact, I wonder if it was a bit of a shock for the ex-Beatles, after several years of being off the road, to see how much concert audio had improved by the early 70's (thinking George and Ringo at the Concert for Bangladesh, or John with the Plastic Ono Band in Toronto, 1969).
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Post by boogieboarder on Jun 16, 2021 22:25:26 GMT -5
The Beatles were in a slightly similar situation in 1966. Although they continued to play their own instruments on their albums, they overdubbed themselves constantly, and also started bringing in outside orchestral instruments and some studio players. Their solution was to perform mainly earlier songs, and only a few of the simpler later songs. On TV, they did use a string section for “Yesterday.” But ultimately they gave up touring all together after their Summer 1966 US tour. This was due to poor PA equipment that didn’t allow them to hear their own playing over screaming fans, as well as not being able to reproduce their current sound on stage. Later Paul McCartney solved both these problems when performing as a solo artist for the last 5 decades. I would say even during the Wings years, that problem had been solved. Look at the Rock Show film; they're playing huge places like the Kingdome in Seattle, yet there is absolutely no issue with crowd noise drowning out the band. In fact, I wonder if it was a bit of a shock for the ex-Beatles, after several years of being off the road, to see how much concert audio had improved by the early 70's (thinking George and Ringo at the Concert for Bangladesh, or John with the Plastic Ono Band in Toronto, 1969). Yes, I consider the Wings years to be part of the solo years for McCartney. I saw Wings at the Los Angeles Forum in 1976. Looking at history, The Grateful Dead with Owsley and the Alembic company he helped start in 1969 were one of the first to build the equipment to get great, loud sound at concert venues.
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