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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 0:06:17 GMT -5
Yeah, some dumb ass decided to include Tony's GV lyrics on a bonus track on the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey 2-fer. They're so bad that Brian sang the alternate GV with Tony's lyrics for his solo album BWPS and in live Smile concerts for a couple years. Somebody musta liked 'em..... Indeed they did. Cool to hear for historical value, but Brian was smart enough to not release them on the actual single. I very much doubt that was Brian's decision.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Apr 22, 2021 0:15:31 GMT -5
Indeed they did. Cool to hear for historical value, but Brian was smart enough to not release them on the actual single. I very much doubt that was Brian's decision. Are suggesting that someone other than Brian decided to use Tony's lyrics as a big middle finger to Mike Love? WHO could that be? Hmmmm.......2 names come to mind.....
Like the time in 2001 when SOMEONE didn't want Wilson Philips to perform at the Brian salute. Hmmm.......
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 22, 2021 0:29:52 GMT -5
Indeed they did. Cool to hear for historical value, but Brian was smart enough to not release them on the actual single. I very much doubt that was Brian's decision. It very much was Brian’s decision. When he finished the single on September 21, 1966, it had Mike’s lyrics, not Asher’s. Ergo, Brian made the final decision
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 2:58:33 GMT -5
I meant, of course, that it wasn't Brian's decision to use the "original" lyrics for BWPS.
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 3:01:04 GMT -5
I very much doubt that was Brian's decision. Are suggesting that someone other than Brian decided to use Tony's lyrics as a big middle finger to Mike Love? WHO could that be? Hmmmm.......2 names come to mind.....
Like the time in 2001 when SOMEONE didn't want Wilson Philips to perform at the Brian salute. Hmmm.......
If that be the case, then having to include Mike's name in the credits for BWPS must have rankled.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Apr 22, 2021 3:20:18 GMT -5
Are suggesting that someone other than Brian decided to use Tony's lyrics as a big middle finger to Mike Love? WHO could that be? Hmmmm.......2 names come to mind.....
Like the time in 2001 when SOMEONE didn't want Wilson Philips to perform at the Brian salute. Hmmm.......
If that be the case, then having to include Mike's name in the credits for BWPS must have rankled. From Carlin's book: According to Wilson, his wife Melinda suggested that he use the original lyrics written by Tony Asher.
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Post by Al S on Apr 22, 2021 3:25:31 GMT -5
If that be the case, then having to include Mike's name in the credits for BWPS must have rankled. From Carlin's book: According to Wilson, his wife Melinda suggested that he use the original lyrics written by Tony Asher. Hey Bob, so what’s the second name that comes to mind?
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Post by Cam Mott on Apr 22, 2021 6:53:22 GMT -5
"It was... (camera zooms in, he slowly stands pointing a quivering finger) ...Hank Brairstem!" (organ flourish )
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Post by Mikie on Apr 22, 2021 10:59:52 GMT -5
So it was Melinda's idea to put Tony's lyrics on BWPS AND sing them on the road? I'm glad she did. It added a nice touch.
Good Vibrations (with or without Tony's lyrics) should always have been on BWPS anyway, as it was supposed to be on the '67 Smile album.
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 11:03:48 GMT -5
So it was Melinda's idea to put Tony's lyrics on BWPS AND sing them on the road? I'm glad she did. It added a nice touch. I disagree. I agree.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 22, 2021 11:14:50 GMT -5
Well.........I'm glad we agree on something, Andrew.
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Post by dauber on Apr 22, 2021 11:52:33 GMT -5
Here's what I wanna know....
Listen to the "she's already workin' on my brain" version (that is, the Carl-sung version, not the one that's on the 2004 Smile)...
Listen VERY CLOSELY -- you can hear faint traces of a vocal before Carl kicks in. I would LOVE to know what that silenced line was.
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 22, 2021 12:01:27 GMT -5
This is unrelated but it’s about Good Vibrations. This YouTube video has a clip of the Boys TV performance in 1969. Carl plays bass in this clip, and you know, Carl played bass at some of these sessions (though not on the final record, though originally Carl would’ve played bass on the official chorus if he didn’t give the bass to Lyle and played guitar instead). Anyways because of having played it on some of those sessions, he’s really into the bass groove, even though it’s mimed. That is true musicianship and why I still miss Carl and thank him for his contributions to music.
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 12:55:55 GMT -5
As you've pointed out, the performance is 100% mimed, which renders it completely pointless for your purposes: you might just as well say Mike's really grooving on the woo-woo machine.
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 13:00:35 GMT -5
Here's what I wanna know....
Listen to the "she's already workin' on my brain" version (that is, the Carl-sung version, not the one that's on the 2004 Smile)...
Listen VERY CLOSELY -- you can hear faint traces of a vocal before Carl kicks in. I would LOVE to know what that silenced line was.
It's Paul McCartney singing: "Scrambled eggs, oh my dear you've got such lovely legs".
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Apr 22, 2021 13:01:25 GMT -5
As you've pointed out, the performance is 100% mimed, which renders it completely pointless for your purposes: you might just as well say Mike's really grooving on the woo-woo machine. I think we can all agree that very few people gave themselves over to a woo-woo machine like Mike Love did.
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Post by nts1drums on Apr 22, 2021 13:02:11 GMT -5
Indeed, but Carl is still grooving and playing that bass even when it is being mimed. It shows his dedication to music even when it wasn’t live during their touring dates.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Apr 22, 2021 13:51:27 GMT -5
Bob Hanes and I really argued over this. I told him Mike's lyrics were far superior to Tony's. Now as we know (and as AGD has confirmed) Tony's were just place holders and not well thought out (like McCartney's Scrambled Eggs lyrics for YESTERDAY).
Bob ,as I said, told me Brian was through playing games. I said Mike's lyrics were the perfect companion to Brian's melody and to say Brian used Mike's words because he was forced to in 1966 is incorrect.
Whatever, Mike's are the ones that stand the test of time.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 22, 2021 14:06:00 GMT -5
Hanes had good taste. I don't give a rat's posterior if they were "place holders" or not. They sound good.
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Apr 22, 2021 14:21:07 GMT -5
Hanes had good taste. I don't give a rat's posterior if they were "place holders" or not. They sound good. Mike, quit being so obtuse. How do you REALLY feel LMAO!
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Post by AGD on Apr 22, 2021 14:44:19 GMT -5
Hanes had good taste. I don't give a rat's posterior if they were "place holders" or not. They sound good. They're clunky, they don't scan properly and the first half of the first verse is missing. That aside, yup, they're just dandy.
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Post by Mikie on Apr 22, 2021 14:53:38 GMT -5
Hanes had good taste. I don't give a rat's posterior if they were "place holders" or not. They sound good. They're clunky, they don't scan properly and the first half of the first verse is missing. That aside, yup, they're just dandy. Nah, clunky, my fanny. There's only one real issue - the missing first verse. Everything else is fine. Good good GOOD, Good Vibrations, yeah! A-well I'm pickin' up Good good GOOD, Good Vibrations, yeah! On one of the outtakes, there's a little 'drum solo' at the end. Da da da da da da in rapid succession on the drums from left to right. Hal just goes wild and it sounds great!
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Post by andrewhickey on Apr 24, 2021 13:43:14 GMT -5
Asher's placeholder lyrics not only don't include a first line for the first verse, they also rhyme "me" with "me" in the second verse -- a basic failure of craft that I'm sure embarrassed Asher himself, and wouldn't have remained had he ever finished a set of lyrics for the song. Mike's lyrics, on the other hand, are some of the best-crafted he ever did. He takes the basic premise of extra-sensory perception, but links it to *sensory* perception, grounding the listener with specific details of multiple senses in the first verse before going into the more out-there chorus -- and starting with the most concrete sense, sight, before moving into the more ethereal senses of sound and smell, bridging from the physical to the more abstract. It takes the listener on a journey, using words chosen with care, rather than just stating in flat, clunky, language "it's weird how she comes in so strong". I think Asher was the better lyricist, but in this case Mike wrote the better set of lyrics.
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Post by Cam Mott on Apr 24, 2021 14:13:45 GMT -5
All while driving to the session.
I don't remember him addressing it but I'm guessing he had had a dub of the final track (minus theremin overdub?) for up to 11 days and must have been thinking about and working out ideas before he jumped in the car and started putting it to word. Surely he didn't listen to it once while looking for his keys and then just pop them off.
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Post by AGD on Apr 24, 2021 15:05:18 GMT -5
All while driving to the session. I don't remember him addressing it but I'm guessing he had had a dub of the final track (minus theremin overdub?) for up to 11 days and must have been thinking about and working out ideas before he jumped in the car and started putting it to word. Surely he didn't listen to it once while looking for his keys and then just pop them off. His wife Suzanne drove him. Mike wrote the lyrics on a yellow legal pad. It worries me I typed that without even thinking about it.
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