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Post by mfp on Jul 10, 2020 16:55:08 GMT -5
Spirited track, I particularly enjoy Al's 6th note repeated "me" in the fade.
8
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Post by Al S on Jul 10, 2020 17:01:10 GMT -5
While it's better than most of the covers that appeared on 15 Big Ones, it still pales in comparison to the covers the Boys did in the 60s Even Louie Louie?
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Post by Al S on Jul 10, 2020 17:07:07 GMT -5
it smacks of desperation. Wait til we get to Peggy Sue. BTW, I’ve been always amazed at the fact that Al, as prone as he is to second thoughts and slow-pacing revisions of his own work, managed to get production done on this album. It must have been excruciating for him! LOL re Peggy Sue, you took the words right out of my qwerty. Re the production, from what I can ascertain (with a loose use of “...certain”), it took about 2 or so years for Al to finish this version, which I “think” is a re-tweak of an Al production from ‘76.
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Post by Autotune on Jul 10, 2020 17:31:35 GMT -5
Wait til we get to Peggy Sue. BTW, I’ve been always amazed at the fact that Al, as prone as he is to second thoughts and slow-pacing revisions of his own work, managed to get production done on this album. It must have been excruciating for him! LOL re Peggy Sue, you took the words right out of my qwerty. Re the production, from what I can ascertain (with a loose use of “...certain”), it took about 2 or so years for Al to finish this version, which I “think” is a re-tweak of an Al production from ‘76. my old MIU CD had an alternate CGWM. I wonder if that’s the 1976 version (a clumsier track, no doubt).
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 10, 2020 18:29:19 GMT -5
Scott G posted this. Look at his description.
I'm a 7/10.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 10, 2020 19:07:45 GMT -5
I love Doo-wop, and this is done very well. But, it does "smacks of desperation", as Ed said.
These guys could do this in their sleep. I don't think it was the best way to pull in new fans,
not new young fans. It's fun. Probably why it "hit the spot" with enough record buyers in
1981 as a single. Without the internet to make a quick Wiki check, youngsters didn't know
what year a song was from*. My friends at the time did not like me playing this album, and
you never heard any of it when in the record shops. There was a second British Invasion
going on in San Francisco (where I lived). But, there was the Ramones. If you did chose
to play beachy-music, it better be the Ramones type - "Let's Dance", "Surfin' Bird" and of
course, that warm "California Sun". They could even write a credible Beach Boys track - 1,2,
3,4! "Rockaway Beach".
*I remember once playing Today! at a party. When "Do You Wanna Dance" came on, a
couple of people asked if they had stole the song from the Ramones, the only version that
they had ever heard! I asked them if they had heard the Lennon version. "No!" John's
version must have been too slow for them to even recognize the song.
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Post by Mikie on Jul 10, 2020 19:38:29 GMT -5
Scott G posted this. Look at his description. I'm a 7/10. You've heard that 1976 version before, haven't you Will? I like your double-spaced presentation today. It's an attention-getter. Good that they updated it - it's a strong cover. They were still hard up for originals in 1978 so they dropped a couple more covers on one side of the MIU album. The single (from 10 Years Harmony) surprisingly went to #18 three years after the fact.
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Post by Al S on Jul 10, 2020 20:31:52 GMT -5
I love Doo-wop, and this is done very well. But, it does "smacks of desperation", as Ed said. These guys could do this in their sleep. I don't think it was the best way to pull in new fans, not new young fans. It's fun. Probably why it "hit the spot" with enough record buyers in 1981 as a single. Without the internet to make a quick Wiki check, youngsters didn't know what year a song was from*. My friends at the time did not like me playing this album, and you never heard any of it when in the record shops. There was a second British Invasion going on in San Francisco (where I lived). But, there was the Ramones. If you did chose to play beachy-music, it better be the Ramones type - "Let's Dance", "Surfin' Bird" and of course, that warm "California Sun". They could even write a credible Beach Boys track - 1,2, 3,4! "Rockaway Beach". *I remember once playing Today! at a party. When "Do You Wanna Dance" came on, a couple of people asked if they had stole the song from the Ramones, the only version that they had ever heard! I asked them if they had heard the Lennon version. "No!" John's version must have been too slow for them to even recognize the song. Well, I don't think they could have done this in their sleep around this time - take for example, In The Still Of the Night or Blooberry Hill from 15BOs. There's not only a listlessnosity to both, but the vocals were also a dubious self-pastiche of their classic stack. It took Al's relatively solo vision to bring back the goods and freshen things up, and it was probably the best move to keep it as a Pet project as opposed to handing it over for collective pillaging.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 10, 2020 23:22:22 GMT -5
I love Doo-wop, and this is done very well. But, it does "smacks of desperation", as Ed said. These guys could do this in their sleep. I don't think it was the best way to pull in new fans, not new young fans. It's fun. I gave a 7/10 for Al's step back in time. That's a good rating. Won't stay that way. Well, I don't think they could have done this in their sleep around this time - take for example, In The Still Of the Night or Blooberry Hill from 15BOs. There's not only a listlessnosity to both, but the vocals were also a dubious self-pastiche of their classic stack. It took Al's relatively solo vision to bring back the goods and freshen things up, and it was probably the best move to keep it as a Pet project as opposed to handing it over for collective pillaging. You don't forget old tricks. They were a bit lazy with some of the 15 Big Ones tracks, but most have enough emotional push for my high rating. I would have dropped "Blueberry Hill" for sure. I would have dropped more-a-plenty though from M. I. U. - they saved some of the wrong stuff for the box-sets, but we'll get to those songs very soon. So many bad decisions when putting the first side of this together. Certainly not front-loaded. I agree, when Al takes his time, he can come up with some very good music. The whole thing with oldies and me, is the choice of the song. I wanted them to go back to more progressive music, not to more oldies. It was just a stumble, the next album is much better for me.
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Post by Al S on Jul 10, 2020 23:50:51 GMT -5
Forgot to mention, the surviving gang made a pretty good fist of Come Go at the 50th gigs. Well, I dug it!
Looks as though we did indeed give Al a chance and we will never leave him never with 17 of 19 voters rating 6 or above.
The ratings:
3 - 1 vote 5 - 1 vote
6 - 2 votes 7 - 5 votes 8 - 4 votes 9 - 2 votes 10 - 4 votes
Wow, I haven't played M.I.U. Album for ages, I'm pleasantly surprised at this juncture. I wonder what's next, hope it's a goodie!
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Post by Al S on Jul 10, 2020 23:55:49 GMT -5
Ahhh, fuck, here we go again, Hey Little Tomboy is today's song.
Well, given it's a different version and some people opted out of Adult/Child, here's a second opportunity to rate and discuss a song that really doesn't require further discussion.
0 from me - deplorable stuff.
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Post by E on Jul 11, 2020 4:08:00 GMT -5
If this had been released in 1963 - with these lyrics - it would have been all right. 2
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Post by John Manning on Jul 11, 2020 5:51:54 GMT -5
Gnnnnnggggg…
I completely understand why this rubs some people up the wrong way (am I allowed to phrase it like that?) – it has a creepiness matched (IMHO) only by All Dressed Up For School and Lazy Lizzie… but y'know when I first heard this toon in my mid-teens I'd had a crush on a lass who was something on a tomboy, one that lasted years, so as a kid I could relate to this song.
Prefer the MIU version without all that crap about shaving a girl's legs – that's a no-no, right? There was a lad at school whose mum had him shave her legs – the rest of us just gagged as he talked about it.
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Post by kds on Jul 11, 2020 6:24:14 GMT -5
While it's better than most of the covers that appeared on 15 Big Ones, it still pales in comparison to the covers the Boys did in the 60s Even Louie Louie? Ha, maybe not that one.
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Post by kds on Jul 11, 2020 6:26:11 GMT -5
Almost went 8, but I'll settle with a 7.
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Post by Autotune on Jul 11, 2020 7:31:57 GMT -5
Someday, somebody will come up with a non-reverential study of this aspect of Brian’s psyche. Only he could get away with this. If anyone else were quoted as a lyricist, they’d be vilified to no end.
Disregarding the lyric, HLT has a long, descending melodic line like Heroes & Villains and the intro/outro to You Still Believe in Me. A beautifully-sung descending 10th. Verses 3 and 4 bring a neat balance with their ascending -if more restrained- melodic movement. The chorus provides musical release, with the group vocal and repeated “hey little”s that match in words and rhythm the first two words of the song.
Mike offers one of the sweetest leads in his career, Brian isn’t falsetto-shy, and Carl soars like he didn’t / couldn’t in his previous adenoidal Love You phase. The instrumental track, with its chugging rhythm and bells is a beauty also.
The bizarre and the utterly disturbing meet the heartbreakingly beautiful and a seldom-paralleled invention and craft. Only the Beach Boys.
I forget my previous vote for this song, but I’ll give it a 7 now.
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Post by filledeplage on Jul 11, 2020 7:35:53 GMT -5
If this had been released in 1963 - with these lyrics - it would have been all right. 2 But that is the point! It is a yester-year snapshot from pre-1963. From a tomboy! And a deplorable!
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Post by jk on Jul 11, 2020 9:22:15 GMT -5
Ahhh, fuck, here we go again, Hey Little Tomboy is today's song. Well, given it's a different version and some people opted out of Adult/Child, here's a second opportunity to rate and discuss a song that really doesn't require further discussion. 0 from me - deplorable stuff. What's this? BBF never said fuck.
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Post by George Faulkner on Jul 11, 2020 10:38:45 GMT -5
Ahhh, fuck, here we go again, Hey Little Tomboy is today's song. Well, given it's a different version and some people opted out of Adult/Child, here's a second opportunity to rate and discuss a song that really doesn't require further discussion. 0 from me - deplorable stuff. Zero? But they're doing it all over the world.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 11, 2020 11:52:36 GMT -5
Newsflash - some of us were tomboys! I have zero problems with this song. Tomboys in a 50's-60's context was almost a precursor to today's feminist! Growing up in a house full of boys - I learned how to swing a bat, a hammer, climb a tree and a ladder. Push a carriage. Drive a boat. At the same time, looking at boys, shopping for dresses, listening to Beatles, Beach Boys, Rolling Stones, learning how to drive a 5 speed car with a clutch. Tomboys had it all! Using a 2020 lens for conceptualized images from the 50's and 60's, does those feminist developmental eras no justice. It disrespects what coming-of-age was at that time. It was sort of a search for what tasks and skillsets, girls could perform/develop in a highly sex-role-defined era. It is sort of a song where they owned those concepts that might have been stereotyped and generalized but those girls DID IT ALL. And before their time. During those post-WWII era years after those same women took over industry, because men were on the battlefield or at sea, women did do it all. They were the tom-men! Those moms encouraged great independence in those boomer babies and why women now outnumber men in fields such as law and other male dominated fields. I just gave a change of grade. 10. Looking back only a couple of weeks ago, it's a new day today. Fresh take on things.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 11, 2020 11:54:32 GMT -5
Even back in the day, wouldn't it have been better for Brian and co to sing/say - "I'm gonna teach you to swing a bat, nail in nails with a hammer and stuff like that" as opposed to the original lyrics. Instead of getting a young chick to shave her legs for the first time as a precursor to a deflowering from a 37 year old, perhaps they should have sung stay away from we cavemen and get a law degree. This song ain't no Pygmalion. Any well-brought up young lady had parents who warned against the cavemen! It is why there were curfews. And why the young courtier had to meet your parents and did not honk the horn until you came out. There were boundaries. That is why there were rules for courtship! It is from a male point of view and largely wishful thinking. I find it harmless. The debate goes on...
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jul 11, 2020 12:19:02 GMT -5
This one started life during the “Love You” sessions. Along with “Roller Skating Child”, a revisited theme - see "All Dressed Up For School". Brian says, “So she's a little tomboy. We're very happy with it." Carlin suggested the song "may be the most unsettling moment in the entire recorded history of the Beach Boys." If you were the parent of a young girl, hearing something along the lines of "Now let's put a dress on and wear a little make up. OK, shave your legs now for the first time", you'd feel embarrassed, disgusted, and ashamed all at the same time. That's something Uncle Pervy would say. The released version is one thing, but this Adult Child demo is even more cringe worthy. I can imagine what Warner's exec's faces looked like when they first heard this. Probably knew right away that it was not for public consumption. I wonder if they even got past this second track. Nice music and melody though. The vocals were good too. And even though it was a little weird for middle-aged men to sing it, they actually got into it. Especially Brian, who was always infatuated with young girls. Uncle Pervy would be the problem not the aspiring boyfriend. Uncle Pervy thinks because he is a member of the family that he can cross the lines. This is not that. The boy knows that someone in the girl's family will kick his butt if he gets out of line. They were not called shot-gun weddings for nothing. It is almost in the same courtship genre as The Waltz - from Van Dyke Parks, an absolutely simple, but genius snapshot of that post WWII era. "Back at that high school cotillion..." In the dance hall, or school gymnasium were dances were held, girls were on one side and boys, on the other. And lots of fear of being rejected, maybe on both walls. There used to be dances at a local Christian school, chaperoned by priests and teachers in the 60's and if you were caught dancing too closely together, you would be approached by "Father" who would tell you to "leave room for the Holy Ghost." They did not want the wrath of the parents. Yes, a big difference between that late 50's to mid-to-late 60's where things just pretty upended with the big sexual revolution, and by the late 70's things had changed dramatically. But Brian's lens is from his frame-of-reference, looking back and a kind of yesteryear. They were still in their 30's, relatively not near middle age. It is a throwback and sometime during the Middle Ages, Andreas Capellanus (the Chaplain) wrote The Art of Courtly Love. faculty.goucher.edu/eng330/andreas_capellanus.htm"Hey Little Tomboy" - It's no "I Wanna Pick You Up", that's a much sweeter song. Instead, the same kind of simple child-like idea is given a "Ding Dang" (nasty version) treatment by a group of grown men for a laugh. That it was considered good enough to put on an album, when they had much better material to choose from... well, that seemed a twisted inside the group joke. That is what can happen when so much resentment bubbles up from the stagnant swimming pool they were splashing about in by 1978. It's one I point to when the discussion turns to cheeseburger songs. "I used to write on pills... I used to like that effect. In fact, I'd like to take uppers now and write because they give me, you know,a certain lift and a certain outlook. And it's not an unnatural thing. I mean the pill might be unnatural and the energy, but the song itself doesn't turn out unnatural on the uppers.The creativity flows through. I'm thinking of asking the doctor if I can go back to those, yeah." ~ Brian, 1976So, cheeseburgers or pills, you decide. I gave it an 8/10 last time. I still think that.
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Post by Mikie on Jul 11, 2020 12:22:25 GMT -5
What I wrote about this one on 6/24 still stands. Lessee, what did I write...........oh yeah..........This one started life during the “Love You” sessions. Peter Carlin suggested the song "may be the most unsettling moment in the entire recorded history of the Beach Boys." He's right. Like he said, as a parent, you'd feel embarrassed and ashamed. In fact, when I played this album and my daughter was in the room, I'd run over and quickly lift the tone arm to the next track. I remember even the now ex wife gave me a quizzical looks. The released version is a little less cringe-worthy than the demo, but not much less. Even this one was not for public consumption. And like I said before, nice music and melody, and so are the vocals. Middle-aged men singing an ode to female puberty, eh? OK.........
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Post by Mikie on Jul 11, 2020 12:29:23 GMT -5
when the discussion turns to cheeseburger songs. "I used to write on pills... I used to like that effect. In fact, I'd like to take uppers now and write because they give me, you know,a certain lift and a certain outlook. And it's not an unnatural thing. I mean the pill might be unnatural and the energy, but the song itself doesn't turn out unnatural on the uppers.The creativity flows through. I'm thinking of asking the doctor if I can go back to those, yeah." ~ Brian, 1976So, cheeseburgers or pills, you decide. I gave it an 8/10 last time. I still think that.I believe it was a lot more than pills that he use to write on. And I'm tellin' ya the truth here, it continued well into Landy's first tenure.
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Post by pendlewitch on Jul 11, 2020 12:57:21 GMT -5
Pff, a veritable can of worms! Not quite as bad as the demo so I'll give it a 1.
We're talking 1978 for this release, not WW1, WW2 and associated female emancipation into the workforce, nor even the 1960s and the rise of Women's Lib. If centuries-old actions can be examined under the lens of 2020, then surely this can be too.
fille, I think you're paying homage to tomboys in general, which is absolutely fine, but this song is not doing that, in my opinion.
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