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Post by usawoman on Apr 10, 2020 8:29:32 GMT -5
Hi all,
I hope that all of you are doing during the time of covid-19. It is horrid. This virus is a killer. I pray nightly. We must persevere. If any of you have feelings of anger getting a journal to write your feelings and thoughts in would help out. May we all come out of this stronger than before. TAke care of yourselves. Take care of each other.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Apr 10, 2020 14:23:39 GMT -5
Hi all, I hope that all of you are doing during the time of covid-19. It is horrid. This virus is a killer. I pray nightly. We must persevere. If any of you have feelings of anger getting a journal to write your feelings and thoughts in would help out. May we all come out of this stronger than before. TAke care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Anger won't help. Just be smart, stay inside, and play it safe. This will work itself out.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 11, 2020 7:57:11 GMT -5
Hi all, I hope that all of you are doing during the time of covid-19. It is horrid. This virus is a killer. I pray nightly. We must persevere. If any of you have feelings of anger getting a journal to write your feelings and thoughts in would help out. May we all come out of this stronger than before. TAke care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Anger won't help. Just be smart, stay inside, and play it safe. This will work itself out. That is true - use the time to grow - and if you can't sew, learn, and if you can sew - find whatever fabric you can - old sheets or pillow cases - and make masks for first responders - fire fighters, police officers, EMTs, grocery workers, delivery people, mail carriers, etc., anyone whoever may be at high risk for this demonic virus. And stay in - for them! It is our time to be creative! And listen to the Boys! So many full concerts on youtube! It is a veritable adventure!
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Post by pendlewitch on Apr 12, 2020 2:25:40 GMT -5
Best wishes to everyone to stay safe and sane in these strange times.
My intake of BB tunes has unfortunately plummeted. No commuting to work in the car (1+ hours a day, albums on repeat), and at home there are these other people around who just won't go out, thereby inhibiting my personal preferred broadcasting of BB songs.
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Post by jk on Apr 13, 2020 8:43:18 GMT -5
Hi all, I hope that all of you are doing during the time of covid-19. It is horrid. This virus is a killer. I pray nightly. We must persevere. If any of you have feelings of anger getting a journal to write your feelings and thoughts in would help out. May we all come out of this stronger than before. TAke care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Hi Mary, Thanks for dropping by. You and Gertie take care too, okay?
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Covid-19
Apr 13, 2020 9:08:09 GMT -5
jk likes this
Post by filledeplage on Apr 13, 2020 9:08:09 GMT -5
This doc does a great job teaching how to keep your groceries safe to consume. I was surprised that he was including fruit to disinfect as well. Stay well.
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Post by John Manning on Apr 17, 2020 8:51:23 GMT -5
Christopher Cross is sick with Covid-19.
The fella has a strong relationship with the BBs, partic Brian, I believe. Didn't he do some backing vox on Imagination, or at least on that recorded promo gig?
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Post by jk on Apr 18, 2020 6:18:02 GMT -5
Christopher Cross is sick with Covid-19.
The fella has a strong relationship with the BBs, partic Brian, I believe. Didn't he do some backing vox on Imagination, or at least on that recorded promo gig?
Poor fellow. Ye gods. Actually I came here to say that rather than screw up the "Discuss & Rate BB Songs" thread even more, this is a better place to point out that the stress of what is a totally unknown situation of a totally unknown length (and outcome) means that things are much more likely to take more time rather than less. At least, that's been my experience--work, which I've been doing at home for decades, is like climbing a mountain right now.
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Post by E on Apr 18, 2020 6:41:48 GMT -5
Jesus.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 18, 2020 8:40:52 GMT -5
There is a backstory to that photo. Gretchen Whitmer - the governor of Michigan, is looking to raise her political profile (not unlike someone with a petition recently) to be the Vice Presidential candidate for the Democratic ticket. She has decided what is "essential" - and stores that sell food, etc are considered "essential" - and she has decided that people who have second homes, that they own, pay taxes on, etc. may not be traveled to, in order to self-quarantine. Or to get out of the city where the COVID rates are exploding to a home that you pay taxes on. So it is a property deprivation. So she has violated some fundamental rights of citizens, and travel is one of them. These can be abridged for police-type powers during public emergencies but these restrictions have gotten out of hand and some states are more like police states - and only for the abuse of power. And the request is that - in most states, if you go to a different property - you commit to quarantining for 14 days. That is reasonable under the circumstances. And, this governor has decided that while a store such as Walmart sells essential goods, such as some food, in some stores, she has decided that life-sustaining products, such as seeds to grow food in a time of food insecurity, as several major nation-wide food distributors have shut down because of COVID. She has also banned the use of motor boats which those same people who are threatened with coming food shortages may not even fish from the boats that they own. Ok to kayak but not fish and ok to buy booze and weed, but not grow tomatoes and lettuce. The seeds are in the same store - but the governor gets to write your shopping list or choose your means of survival? This is not about COVID - this is an inappropriate and tyrannical abuse of power in my opinion. Whitmer (or half-whitmer) thinks that kayaking is ok and canoeing is ok but neither lends itself to being able to feed oneself. So, enraged citizens protested peacefully in a 12,000 car rally the other day to exercise their constitutional right to protest - that is out of the mouth of Alan Dershowitz - renowned Constitutional scholar. This protest is being castigated as racist by mainstream media. Since when has fishing been considered racist or planting your own food, a race-based activity rather than a skill set? Gretchen has roped off the "non-essential" seed aisles in Walmart in Michigan where citizens might have grown "victory gardens" as in World War II, when people kept themselves alive, through their own labors. Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill. So, there's that. 100% political - just like that petition a couple of months back. Peaceful protest is a protected activity.
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Post by E on Apr 18, 2020 10:22:13 GMT -5
They've got assault weapons. There is absolutely no excuse. And please, save your winking emoji for someone who buys this crap.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 18, 2020 11:56:19 GMT -5
They've got assault weapons. There is absolutely no excuse. And please, save your winking emoji for someone who buys this crap. The weapons are not what I was focused on. It was the utter foolishness that you can't buy your own seeds and grow your own food. She was appealed to - and just dismissed 12,000 citizens as though they were stupid, and beneath her, with contempt for them. That is a little drama with the open carry - that is not needed. I don't buy that a government hack - can tell you that you can't garden for your own food and there are shortages. Smithfield - about the biggest meat producer in the US has closed because of Covid. Tyson, National Beef, and others. People are starting to buy live chickens to raise for eggs. They know things will get worse, before they get better and there will be food shortages and are being prudent to try to grow their own. There are still old timers around, who can tell them about food rationing and to grow their own food. Food - Clothing - Shelter (in an owned second home) - the Big Three. That is what this is about. The clothing aisles in certain areas, are roped off as well. www.businessinsider.com/costco-walmart-target-stop-selling-non-essential-items-select-states-2020-4They can't even go to their second homes where they would be spread out with more space per person, and be able to practice better "social distancing" - this is repression. That was the protest about seeds - the last straw - it was not about guns, and it is bad optics (with the open carry - which it not my thing - and quite ugly, but their right) but that this irresponsible tyrant has gone too far. Everyone knows someone who is dead from this now and can't properly have a wake, funeral or service. Carrying the gun - makes people lose the message about the seeds and the deprivation of liberty. Reasonable minds can differ.
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Post by John Manning on Apr 18, 2020 14:24:51 GMT -5
Plenty of people in the U.K. decided to head for their second homes too. Trouble is, most of these second homes are in sparsely populated areas such as National Parks, where NHS provision – GPs, hospital beds, number of ambulances etc – is based on the resident population. By migrating away from their actual place of residence they risk not only overwhelming local health facilities if they get sick, but also actually importing the virus into rural areas which had previously been clear of infections.
As for “Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill”, well, teaching adults social distancing is another life-sustaining skill that those folks in the photo might consider.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 18, 2020 16:33:32 GMT -5
Plenty of people in the U.K. decided to head for their second homes too. Trouble is, most of these second homes are in sparsely populated areas such as National Parks, where NHS provision – GPs, hospital beds, number of ambulances etc – is based on the resident population. By migrating away from their actual place of residence they risk not only overwhelming local health facilities if they get sick, but also actually importing the virus into rural areas which had previously been clear of infections. As for “Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill”, well, teaching adults to self-distance is another life-sustaining skill that those folks in the photo might consider. Agree 100% - a lot of the second homes or basic cabins are in areas where the towns love the tax dollars for their schools and services, and in the high season readily absorb the uptick in the seasonal economy. Telemedicine has changed a lot, so a lot of the smaller areas are now tapped into big metropolitan hospitals for consultations. Trouble is - in an urban area, it is almost impossible to get a kid out for some exercise and fresh air. And the seniors have been doomed to die in a nursing home. If they get in the country - there is a fighting chance to live. It is a death sentence - we have lost thousands of the greatest generation in nursing homes, and veterans. One veteran's home has over 50 dead from corona. It is beyond disgraceful. The response is "Oh well, they were over 70." Matter of fact and an unacceptable position. There are plenty in their 80's who are spry and robust and don't deserve a death sentence. But are getting one. They are not letting the Queen or Prince Charles (who had covid) die or other dignitaries die. Someone's grandmother or grandfather - oh well, that is an acceptable death? They head off to a secluded country estate. Whatever happened to the aspiration of living to a ripe old age? But, I think that rural areas need to step up and welcome those from the city who need more space - after all, they don't ever hesitate to travel to a city to get specialized medical care themselves. It is a two-way street. Seniors are sentenced to death if they can't avoid this very dangerous virus, and it is a two-way street. When rural people want help - city people are very generous with resources, and now others need help - if only to self-isolate - and get blowback. And the cities have a crushing burden of infected first responders, many of whom have not survived. The issue of no masks/gloves and PPE for everyone is borderline criminal and must never be repeated. Stay well.
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Post by jk on Apr 19, 2020 3:07:02 GMT -5
As for “Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill”, well, teaching adults social distancing is another life-sustaining skill that those folks in the photo might consider.My first (and only) thought when I saw it--"Spread out, you irresponsible ****ers".
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 19, 2020 8:00:46 GMT -5
As for “Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill”, well, teaching adults social distancing is another life-sustaining skill that those folks in the photo might consider.My first (and only) thought when I saw it--"Spread out, you irresponsible ****ers". Better still... JK - that is awesome! I will be sharing that! (Already have!) I guess I am really frustrated and pissed when you get all these mixed messages - from those in authority and in public health about this and the whole masks issue - all they had to say from the get-go was "We have no masks! We screwed up! We are asking you to make your own - even out of paper towels." They knew in January. New Year's Eve - to be exact. Instead of public policy about staying home, we got the political joust. And this telling people "wash your hands" - "you don't need a mask." That song is hilarious, truthful and hope it goes viral! Thank you - Merci mille fois! And, pray for those on the front lines!
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Post by E on Apr 19, 2020 16:54:06 GMT -5
"Bad optics." Right...
Over and out.
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Covid-19
Apr 19, 2020 23:03:02 GMT -5
E likes this
Post by Will/P.P. on Apr 19, 2020 23:03:02 GMT -5
They've got assault weapons. There is absolutely no excuse. And please, save your winking emoji for someone who buys this crap. You mean you don't have this "freedom" in your area? Idiots carrying guns is the new normal here in parts of the States.
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Post by AGD on Apr 20, 2020 3:01:23 GMT -5
There is a backstory to that photo. Gretchen Whitmer - the governor of Michigan, is looking to raise her political profile (not unlike someone with a petition recently) to be the Vice Presidential candidate for the Democratic ticket. She has decided what is "essential" - and stores that sell food, etc are considered "essential" - and she has decided that people who have second homes, that they own, pay taxes on, etc. may not be traveled to, in order to self-quarantine. Or to get out of the city where the COVID rates are exploding to a home that you pay taxes on. So it is a property deprivation. So she has violated some fundamental rights of citizens, and travel is one of them. These can be abridged for police-type powers during public emergencies but these restrictions have gotten out of hand and some states are more like police states - and only for the abuse of power. And the request is that - in most states, if you go to a different property - you commit to quarantining for 14 days. That is reasonable under the circumstances. And, this governor has decided that while a store such as Walmart sells essential goods, such as some food, in some stores, she has decided that life-sustaining products, such as seeds to grow food in a time of food insecurity, as several major nation-wide food distributors have shut down because of COVID. She has also banned the use of motor boats which those same people who are threatened with coming food shortages may not even fish from the boats that they own. Ok to kayak but not fish and ok to buy booze and weed, but not grow tomatoes and lettuce. The seeds are in the same store - but the governor gets to write your shopping list or choose your means of survival? This is not about COVID - this is an inappropriate and tyrannical abuse of power in my opinion. Whitmer (or half-whitmer) thinks that kayaking is ok and canoeing is ok but neither lends itself to being able to feed oneself. So, enraged citizens protested peacefully in a 12,000 car rally the other day to exercise their constitutional right to protest - that is out of the mouth of Alan Dershowitz - renowned Constitutional scholar. This protest is being castigated as racist by mainstream media. Since when has fishing been considered racist or planting your own food, a race-based activity rather than a skill set? Gretchen has roped off the "non-essential" seed aisles in Walmart in Michigan where citizens might have grown "victory gardens" as in World War II, when people kept themselves alive, through their own labors. Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill. So, there's that. 100% political - just like that petition a couple of months back. Peaceful protest is a protected activity. If you really believe the people in that photo, wearing camouflage gear and festooned with assault weapons, are the kind to plant vegetables and go fishing with rods instead of dynamite, then you're part of the problem. And that's not a "peaceful" protest: some of those people are armed to the teeth.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 20, 2020 8:26:41 GMT -5
There is a backstory to that photo. Gretchen Whitmer - the governor of Michigan, is looking to raise her political profile (not unlike someone with a petition recently) to be the Vice Presidential candidate for the Democratic ticket. She has decided what is "essential" - and stores that sell food, etc are considered "essential" - and she has decided that people who have second homes, that they own, pay taxes on, etc. may not be traveled to, in order to self-quarantine. Or to get out of the city where the COVID rates are exploding to a home that you pay taxes on. So it is a property deprivation. So she has violated some fundamental rights of citizens, and travel is one of them. These can be abridged for police-type powers during public emergencies but these restrictions have gotten out of hand and some states are more like police states - and only for the abuse of power. And the request is that - in most states, if you go to a different property - you commit to quarantining for 14 days. That is reasonable under the circumstances. And, this governor has decided that while a store such as Walmart sells essential goods, such as some food, in some stores, she has decided that life-sustaining products, such as seeds to grow food in a time of food insecurity, as several major nation-wide food distributors have shut down because of COVID. She has also banned the use of motor boats which those same people who are threatened with coming food shortages may not even fish from the boats that they own. Ok to kayak but not fish and ok to buy booze and weed, but not grow tomatoes and lettuce. The seeds are in the same store - but the governor gets to write your shopping list or choose your means of survival? This is not about COVID - this is an inappropriate and tyrannical abuse of power in my opinion. Whitmer (or half-whitmer) thinks that kayaking is ok and canoeing is ok but neither lends itself to being able to feed oneself. So, enraged citizens protested peacefully in a 12,000 car rally the other day to exercise their constitutional right to protest - that is out of the mouth of Alan Dershowitz - renowned Constitutional scholar. This protest is being castigated as racist by mainstream media. Since when has fishing been considered racist or planting your own food, a race-based activity rather than a skill set? Gretchen has roped off the "non-essential" seed aisles in Walmart in Michigan where citizens might have grown "victory gardens" as in World War II, when people kept themselves alive, through their own labors. Teaching kids to grow food is a life-sustaining skill. So, there's that. 100% political - just like that petition a couple of months back. Peaceful protest is a protected activity. If you really believe the people in that photo, wearing camouflage gear and festooned with assault weapons, are the kind to plant vegetables and go fishing with rods instead of dynamite, then you're part of the problem. And that's not a "peaceful" protest: some of those people are armed to the teeth. Andrew - to me, that is just judging the book by the cover. That group of protesters whose rights are not abridged - in their whatever clothing - are more likely to plant a garden - than the coastal elites in suits, and heels, who think that chicken comes from the frozen food case. America has a whole range of people. In fact...they do farm...47,000 farms in fact, $104.7 billion annually goes to the state's economy - and that governor does not want them to buy seeds? Food and agriculture are among the biggest economic drivers in that state. 17% of the workforce is in farming. They plant food, alright. Even if it is not their living. And, they drive big pickup trucks. When the coastal elites figure out just where they get that bagged salad and chicken - there might be a little more respect for those who get their hands dirty every day, in order to feed us. www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-1572-7775--,00.html Wearing camouflage is not worn where I live, but it is the USA and that goes with the territory. We are the United States not the divided States of America. The message was not just about the weapons, but the respect for the Second Amendment. There are sections of the US Constitution that are under siege right now - like freedom of speech - even if it is unpleasant. And massive censorship to install more repressive restrictions on liberty. Some groups who are socialist-totalitarian leaning, such as Gretchen Whitmer - would have people walk by an aisle of seeds and kids clothing because "she" does not consider them essential? Going to your own cabin or cottage? Fish? I don't agree. It is abuse of power. And people often stereotype those from non-urban areas as ignorant. Ignorant, if they are just churchgoers or if they home school their kids or are farmers who work that 15 hour day. I don't even know anyone with that type of firearm - but recognize and respect their right under the US Constitution. The only problem I have with that photo, is that they should all be 6 feet apart (so they won't be 6 feet under) and wearing a mask.
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Covid-19
Apr 20, 2020 12:19:42 GMT -5
E likes this
Post by AGD on Apr 20, 2020 12:19:42 GMT -5
Ah, the Second Amendment. Right to bear arms and such. Two problems with that.
One, it was NEVER about the right to bear arms, but rather the desperate need for a fledgeling nation to have a standing militia.
Two, it concerned the cutting edge weapons technology of 1791 (when it was framed): the muzzle-loading musket.
Don't believe me ?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back in 1791, a militia was essential. These days, the combined manpower of the US Air Force, Army & Navy is roughly 2,260,000 (1,400,000 active, 860,000 reserve). No need for a militia, well regulated or not. The so-called right to bear arms doesn't mean you can fill your house with assault rifles. Said amendment was outmoded by roughly 1850, and should be repealed now, but as the NRA has Congress in its back pocket, that'll never happen.
Also, this:
Consider - do we still play football to the rules of 1869, or even 1905 ?
Finally, as for growing seeds, which you seen to have a bee in your bonnet about: from planting it takes a tomato roughly 75 days (say 11 weeks) to produce fruit. Lettuce, say 50 days, or seven weeks: what are they going to eat in the interim ?
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Post by John Manning on Apr 20, 2020 12:20:10 GMT -5
I find the carrying of firearms in public under any circumstances to be utterly abhorrent and would find it extremely threatening if I'd been present. To my mind it undermines their case 100% if they can't make it by peaceful protest, lobbying and debate. The implication is, frankly, that they'll kill anyone who disagrees with them, otherwise why turn up with firearms? Maybe if they carried something they'd harvested from garden, or a fish they'd caught on a line, or a chicken they'd reared… then others might get that message instead of fearing they'll be shot by people who don't even have sufficient mutual respect for each other to stand two metres apart.
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Covid-19
Apr 20, 2020 13:46:23 GMT -5
E likes this
Post by AGD on Apr 20, 2020 13:46:23 GMT -5
This is Trump's heartland support. I say no more.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 20, 2020 14:12:42 GMT -5
Ah, the Second Amendment. Right to bear arms and such. Two problems with that. One, it was NEVER about the right to bear arms, but rather the desperate need for a fledgeling nation to have a standing militia. Two, it concerned the cutting edge weapons technology of 1791 (when it was framed): the muzzle-loading musket. Don't believe me ? " A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Back in 1791, a militia was essential. These days, the combined manpower of the US Air Force, Army & Navy is roughly 2,260,000 (1,400,000 active, 860,000 reserve). No need for a militia, well regulated or not. The so-called right to bear arms doesn't mean you can fill your house with assault rifles. Said amendment was outmoded by roughly 1850, and should be repealed now, but as the NRA has Congress in its back pocket, that'll never happen. Also, this: Consider - do we still play football to the rules of 1869, or even 1905 ? Finally, as for growing seeds, which you seen to have a bee in your bonnet about: from planting it takes a tomato roughly 75 days (say 11 weeks) to produce fruit. Lettuce, say 50 days, or seven weeks: what are they going to eat in the interim ? Andrew - the seeds and clothing and using your own cabin or cottage? It comes down to human basics - in some form or another - food, shelter and clothing. It is not the social distancing - the incompetence of officials telling the public that they did not need a mask for an upper respiratory virus whose contagion is up to now has been unheard of and I remember the polio epidemic before Salk. The prospect that this was engineered in a level 4 lab that the US government paid $3.7 million tax dollars for. The citizens know that they have been lied to. Each state is operating sort of as its own little kingdom in a partisan manner where this virus - knows no political parties. There are two points-of-view on firearms. I live in the States - and am unbothered by those who open carry because I know it is a fundamental right of self-defense (subject to state specific statutes - and some states say you have a right to self-defense with deadly force and in others you must try to escape before you use a firearm) It is not as easy as it looks. And it was born out of this... from the federalist.com "The Founding Fathers didn't ask why it was necessary to provide the people the means to resist a tyrannical government. It was a problem that they had very recently encountered in real life, in the form of thousands of Redcoats sent across the Atlantic by a distant central government to suspend civil rights and enforce oppressive laws." So when they drafted their own system of central government and provided it sufficient military force to repel or deter foreign threats, they were profoundly concerned that this new national government would not be able to turn its power back on its own citizens." Some citizens - have construed these oppressive restrictions - and I don't mean 6 feet apart and wearing masks and gloves - the problem is that this governor cannot "rationally relate her actions for a legitimate state (government) purpose" - that is the standard for restrictions on freedom such as travel. The masks, 6 feet apart and gloves are rationally related to a legitimate state purpose - "stopping the spread of disease" - and the purchase of seeds in a store that is already open because it meets the criteria of selling essential goods or services. Restricting those actions does not pass muster. The governor does have the police power to close down society for public health reasons but only within reasonable limits. But the restriction must be narrowly-tailored to fit a legitimate state purpose. If the sale of booze and weed is legal, why are not seeds and clothing? That is the problem - the arbitrary and capricious nature of the inconsistency in policy. I would not buy clothes at Walmart or Target but there are some families who rely on big box stores for all of their shopping. Narrowly tailored - is 6 feet, wear a mask, perhaps even a curfew to preserve resources of the first responders to respond to emergency calls and not for public drinking or other such foolishness. The debate on your point is a hot one now. But the ability to respond to a tyrannical government has not gone away and I did not see any one raise their firearm to shoot or threaten anyone. www.theoaklandpress.com/news/coronavirus/oakland-county-residents-join-federal-lawsuit-against-whitmer-stay-at-home-order/article_dd0e5f94-7f5f-11ea-915c-db46275fd447.htmlgellerreport.com/2020/04/lawsuit-against-whitmertyranny.html/www.legalreader.com/michigan-residents-sue-gretchen-whitmer-stay-at-home-order/From the complaint..."arbitrary, capricious, irrational and abusive." It alleges First Amendment associational rights (they might lose on this I think - but just subject to social distancing which is reasonable and tailored to a legitimate state purpose) - Property takings - not being able to travel to another home, under the "takings" clause. I agree with the Plaintiffs that it is "over-broad and over-reaching" (and just to raise a political profile to be a vice presidential contender in the 2020 election.) No one even knew her name until last week with this nonsense. So her edict has given her publicity. That is what she wanted. So the bee in my bonnet - I'm laughing - I've done a little reading on hydroponic growing and just for a laugh - I did not discard my last 3 stumps of romaine lettuce - put them in water, in the sun - and within a week - each has leaves. And I could not grow a dandelion. Yes, I am an "originalist." Meaning I believe the drafters could forsee future issues and built in safeguards. In the US we have a presumption of innocence, and guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and in other areas there is a presumption of guilt and you must prove your innocence. They are huge differences. I like my system - a lot.
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 20, 2020 14:43:57 GMT -5
I find the carrying of firearms in public under any circumstances to be utterly abhorrent and would find it extremely threatening if I'd been present. To my mind it undermines their case 100% if they can't make it by peaceful protest, lobbying and debate. The implication is, frankly, that they'll kill anyone who disagrees with them, otherwise why turn up with firearms? Maybe if they carried something they'd harvested from garden, or a fish they'd caught on a line, or a chicken they'd reared… then others might get that message instead of fearing they'll be shot by people who don't even have sufficient mutual respect for each other to stand two metres apart. The deal with the guns in the US - is that most criminals in the booming drug business or in gangs, do have guns - mostly illegal and don't have training - while many others who carry - such as off-duty military or police have training and they can stop a mass carnage event or harden a soft target such as a school. How does an ordinary citizen protect themselves and their families? Gunfire happens in seconds and a call to the police for help takes minutes. The next call is to the undertaker. When good citizens carry and are trained - they save lives. There is a saying that "when guns are outlawed - only outlaws will have guns." I believe in the 2nd Amendment. And the non-headlines - thousands of criminals in the US have been released into the public - because of Covid 19. Many are violent offenders.
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