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Post by AGD on Jun 20, 2019 15:24:36 GMT -5
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Post by Vale on Jun 20, 2019 15:47:09 GMT -5
Footage of Dennis lead on GV? I heard right?
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Post by John Manning on Jun 20, 2019 16:48:09 GMT -5
Great to listen to! I hope some archivist is going to transcribe that so it’s available as text for future generations!  |
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Post by AGD on Jun 20, 2019 17:21:48 GMT -5
Got the best backhanded compliment for years watching that: when ML was talking about vintage studio gear, I said "Putnam 610 modules" about three seconds before he did. My partner, looking over my shoulder, gave a great sigh and muttered "shit, you're even a bigger geek than I realised".  |
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Post by Mikie on Jun 20, 2019 21:01:06 GMT -5
Footage of Dennis lead on GV? I heard right? I never heard of it until now. Maybe it's in some book somewhere and I forgot about it? The only "lead" that I know about Dennis doing on Good Vibrations was when he held his nose and went Aaaaaaahhhhh (at 1:54) below. Now I know why it looks like Dennis isn't in sync or singing different words the on the Good Vibrations 'promo' video. Anybody know what the other lyrics were? Were they the Tony Asher alternate lyrics? Meanwhile, great interview with Mark Linett! |
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Post by Mikie on Jun 20, 2019 23:28:35 GMT -5
Mark says there's going to be an announcement about something soon. Let's see what it is.....
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mattbielewicz
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Post by mattbielewicz on Jun 21, 2019 1:02:19 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I haven't kept up with all the forums moving and being deleted. I was at the last place, the yellow PS one... but now I see (rather behind the curve) that it's gone and there's this fetching blue and white number instead. So when I went to post about this video at the old black place yesterday, I thought "OK, I'll go and do the yellow one now... ooops. It's gone."
Fortunately, AGD (as usual) was ahead of me and posted about it while my registration was being approved here last night. Glad to see news of the video made its way here, anyway. Mark is a true gent and was very patient while the SOS team filmed in his studio - and has been even more patient waiting for the video to go through a long editing process. The whole thing was originally filmed back in January...!
Glad you're all enjoying it, anyway. It seems to be popular over at SOS too. There's enough studio geek content to keep the vintage gear and studio tech nuts happy, and enough reasonably deep Beach Boys tape library info to keep, well, the likes of us happy too. Or at least that was the idea...! (As is usual with these things, lots of material had to be cut, unfortunately - the format is that the films have to be kept tightly to as close to 30 minutes as possible. I could have happily rambled on asking questions of Mark all day long, but the rest of the team, not unreasonably, were discreetly looking at their watches and thinking about how on Earth they were going to shoehorn this long interview about ancient tapes into something even approximating 30 minutes...)
As it seems is usual with the tape copyright sets, nothing is confirmed until everything is confirmed. I definitely *don't* get the impression that the EU copyright law of 2012 (or whenever it was) means that the record company that now owns Capitol agreed the release of copyright sets from 2013 (for 1963) onwards, and that means we are automatically *guaranteed* a fabulous archive set every year as our inalienable right. Budgets at record companies being what they are, I very much *do* get the impression that a case has to be made every year for the series to continue - in short, much as we might think them utterly essential, the 'bean counters' have to be convinced every year anew that the sets have a sufficient financial potential before they are happy to give them the green light. And I guess this is why we don't always get physical releases. But my hope is that there's enough potential in the group's 1969/70 output to merit the approval of a pretty decent set for 2019/2020. After that... who knows?
Perhaps this is what Mark's forthcoming announcement is about?
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Post by John Manning on Jun 21, 2019 6:47:31 GMT -5
Wonder if there might be one of those compilations of hits enhanced with vault material on the way? It’s midsummer and there’s hasn’t been a Beach Boys comp announcement at all yet, so either they’re keeping their cards close to their chests or there’s an apocalypse coming and it wouldn’t be worth releasing one … and we just ain’t been told yet.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 21, 2019 7:10:36 GMT -5
Thank you for posting that. I especially enjoyed the backstory of the Pet Sounds box set. That work is a labor of love. |
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Post by AGD on Jun 21, 2019 7:26:38 GMT -5
Wonder if there might be one of those compilations of hits enhanced with vault material on the way? It’s midsummer and there’s hasn’t been a Beach Boys comp announcement at all yet, so either they’re keeping their cards close to their chests or there’s an apocalypse coming and it wouldn’t be worth releasing one … and we just ain’t been told yet. No need -Sounds of Summer just re-entered the top 100 of the albums chart ! |
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Post by Mikie on Jun 21, 2019 10:50:41 GMT -5
Perhaps this is what Mark's forthcoming announcement is about?
Let's hope it's the next in the series of copyright sets. Whatever Mark gives us will of course be welcome. Nice to know the Beach Boys archive is in good hands and is stored and well preserved for the next generations of music fans. Matt, I'd love to watch your unedited 'rambling' version of your interview with Mark. Welcome to the Endless Harmony board. Looking forward to your future posts here. 
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Post by Mikie on Jun 21, 2019 10:53:58 GMT -5
Anyone gonna talk about how Mark wants to re-do the Good Vibrations stereo extraction mix but with vocals synced to the backing track from the actual multitracks(!) They were talking about this extraction technology a few years ago, and I'm sure Good Vibrations was an immediate candidate in Mark's mind. I'll betcha it's already done and in the can. |
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Post by George Faulkner on Jun 23, 2019 9:56:07 GMT -5
How about where Mark mentions that from early on, the BB's retained all session tapes (and how that was unusual). Is there any documented history on that? How it happened? Whomever was able to get that into their contract changed the course of BB recorded history.
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 23, 2019 10:11:55 GMT -5
How about where Mark mentions that from early on, the BB's retained all session tapes (and how that was unusual). Is there any documented history on that? How it happened? Whomever was able to get that into their contract changed the course of BB recorded history. Yes, interesting point. But I was wondering how all of that happened? Did the band (or one of them) walk out of the studio each time with a copy of the recordings each day? Was one automatically created contemporaneously? Maybe it sounds dumb, because I know very little about how all of this works? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 15:18:26 GMT -5
Excellent video! I love all the technical details about the studio gear and especially the rundown on the vault tapes. Fascinating stuff! I'm thoroughly excited thinking about potential future projects that have been hinted at. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Jun 23, 2019 23:24:31 GMT -5
They were talking about this extraction technology a few years ago, and I'm sure Good Vibrations was an immediate candidate in Mark's mind. I'll betcha it's already done and in the can. That'd be awesome. I thought the 2012 mix was pretty much all that could be done with the sources, I.E. pulling elements from the mono mix apart into stereo, but here he seems confident that the technology's evolved to where vocals from the mono mix could be fully isolated to create something close to a true stereo mix. The partial stereo mix on the Pet Sounds 50th set with those few surviving multitrack vocals sounded incredible. There's a partial stereo mix with vocals on the Pet Sounds 50th anniversary set? Which disk and which track? I can't find it... |
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Post by AGD on Jun 24, 2019 7:06:40 GMT -5
Not How about where Mark mentions that from early on, the BB's retained all session tapes (and how that was unusual). Is there any documented history on that? How it happened? Whomever was able to get that into their contract changed the course of BB recorded history. Yes, interesting point. But I was wondering how all of that happened? Did the band (or one of them) walk out of the studio each time with a copy of the recordings each day? Was one automatically created contemporaneously? Maybe it sounds dumb, because I know very little about how all of this works? Slightly off topic, but way back in the day (eighties) I recall reading that Chuck ran a 2-track slave when recording Brian and the Boys in the 60s as a reference for the next session. |
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Post by filledeplage on Jun 24, 2019 8:37:14 GMT -5
Not Yes, interesting point. But I was wondering how all of that happened? Did the band (or one of them) walk out of the studio each time with a copy of the recordings each day? Was one automatically created contemporaneously? Maybe it sounds dumb, because I know very little about how all of this works? Slightly off topic, but way back in the day (eighties) I recall reading that Chuck ran a 2-track slave when recording Brian and the Boys in the 60s as a reference for the next session. Thank you - and as it relates to all this archive stuff - that is important, if that was the custom and practice. The eighties are not so "far back."  |
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mattbielewicz
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Post by mattbielewicz on Jun 24, 2019 9:15:52 GMT -5
As a BBC video about 'mortality maths' makes shockingly clear today... the 80s *ARE* waaaaaaay back. I mean, I was a teenager then... and I'm in my late 40s now. Most people would agree that I've lived out the main part of my grown-up adult life during those years.
But if that doesn't do it for you, consider this (along the lines of the 'mortality maths' stuff in the BBC video). I first got into music in a big way when I was seven, in 1978 (although I do also remember happily listening and dancing to my parents' battered copy of The Beach Boys Live In London, which is probably where all... THIS... comes from, back when I was five). I listened to the UK's Top 40 singles countdown every Sunday from early 1979 onwards.
That's now over 40 years ago. If you consider someone who had been listening to popular music then who had been listening to it as long as I have now, the popular music of the day when THEY started listening wouldn't have been the Beach Boys, Chuck Berry, or even Elvis and Bill Haley... it would have been the likes of this. The legendary Jack Hylton and his tea-dance orchestra, of course. And possibly someone like Marlene Dietrich. RAWWWKNROOOOOOLLLL... not.
I'm pretty sure Mark said once that if Brian and Chuck did indeed run two-track tapes in the 60s while the sessions were going, they sadly haven't found 'em. All they seem to have is the session multitracks (which, as Mark makes clear in the video, is lucky in itself, as many artists no longer have equivalent tapes like that, but the Beach Boys, luckily, DO). And then, as he says in the video, as soon as they didn't need to copy to another multitrack to achieve all the overdubs they wanted on a song, they would just erase and re-record any early vocal or overdub attempts they didn't want to keep. Which is why we don't have, for example, Dennis's apparent early lead vocal tryouts on GV or (wasn't it?) Sail On Sailor later. Later attempts at the lead by other vocalists erased the earlier efforts, because they were all on the same tape and possibly even the same tape *track*...
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Post by AGD on Jun 24, 2019 10:23:38 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Mark said once that if Brian and Chuck did indeed run two-track tapes in the 60s while the sessions were going, they sadly haven't found 'em. All they seem to have is the session multitracks (which, as Mark makes clear in the video, is lucky in itself, as many artists no longer have eq uivalent tapes like that, but the Beach Boys, luckily, DO). And then, as he says in the video, as soon as they didn't need to copy to another multitrack to achieve all the overdubs they wanted on a song, they would just erase and re-record any early vocal or overdub attempts they didn't want to keep. Which is why we don't have, for example, Dennis's apparent early lead vocal tryouts on GV or (wasn't it?) Sail On Sailor later. Later attempts at the lead by other vocalists erased the earlier efforts, because they were all on the same tape and possibly even the same tape *track*... The same article/interview mentioned that whoever had those tapes took them with him when he was shipped off to Vietnam, and left them behind when he came home. Not sure I believe that as it's implausible on about three different levels. As for Dennis' (and Carl's) takes at the "SO,S" lead, they're still on tape. Unfortunately underneath Blondie's released version, as you note. |
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Post by craigslowinski on Jun 24, 2019 10:34:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Mark said once that if Brian and Chuck did indeed run two-track tapes in the 60s while the sessions were going, they sadly haven't found 'em. All they seem to have is the session multitracks (which, as Mark makes clear in the video, is lucky in itself, as many artists no longer have equivalent tapes like that, but the Beach Boys, luckily, DO). And then, as he says in the video, as soon as they didn't need to copy to another multitrack to achieve all the overdubs they wanted on a song, they would just erase and re-record any early vocal or overdub attempts they didn't want to keep. Which is why we don't have, for example, Dennis's apparent early lead vocal tryouts on GV or (wasn't it?) Sail On Sailor later. Later attempts at the lead by other vocalists erased the earlier efforts, because they were all on the same tape and possibly even the same tape *track*...
Yeah, interestingly, back in the day (the '60s, I'm referring to here - which is indeed WAY back ), when doubling their vocals on a second 3-track machine, they would continually transfer the track & first layer of vocals from the first tape while simultaneously singing the vocal double over the first one, so that each attempt at this was preserved on the second tape. The FIRST vocal (on the first tape) would just get wiped every time they sang a new take...but each subsequent take of the SECOND vocal still exists on the second tape, along with each successive transfer (aka "bounce") from the first tape. This is true from at least some of the Shut Down Vol. 2 album, through pretty much all of the Today! album on (until they got into using 8-track, which started with a few songs on the next album). By this point, they were recording the backing track in stereo (or sometimes in mono with an instrumental overdub), and keeping it that way while bouncing to the second tape - apparently for ease of balancing the tracks in the mix. Prior to '64, they would typically record the track in mono, then add two layers of vocals on that first tape...which is why we have stereo vocals on songs like "Surfer Girl". But for the stuff I'm talking about (best example is most of Today!), you have a stereo track (on the Linett remixes) with doubled vocals in mono! |
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Post by craigslowinski on Jun 24, 2019 10:37:58 GMT -5
There's a partial stereo mix with vocals on the Pet Sounds 50th anniversary set? Which disk and which track? I can't find it... 4CD set, disk 4, track 23 Oh yeah, duh..."Bonus Track: 23.Good Vibrations (Master Track with Partial Vocal)*" If it were a snake... |
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