kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84 
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 8, 2019 1:35:38 GMT -5
I know all about Andrew’s wonderful site, but when it comes to finding out recording info on a specific song, it can be difficult to find info on the site (sorry Andrew!) For example, I have the Made in California box digitally and it didn’t come with a digital booklet; if I want to know when “Why?” was recorded, as far as I can tell, the only way to find the info would be to go through the recording chronology page by page looking for the song, assuming that it is listed by the title that it eventually came out under. There is also an albums section, but Made in California is not on there. If there’s a song on a certain bootleg, then it’s even more difficult. So: is there a function on the Bellagio site I’m just missing? Or, is there another site with similar info but searchable? Basically, what I’m imagining is The Beach Boys equivalent to Prince Vault - princevault.comThere you can search for something and view lyrics, recording dates, releases, various versions, etc. I’ve been trying to organize my Beach Boys collection (official and boot releases) into chronological playlists, but finding info about various recordings has proven difficult. Does such a resource exist? |
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Post by AGD on Mar 8, 2019 5:21:10 GMT -5
My bad - the albums section needs serious updating. "Why" is listed in the shows and sessions pages, although for the life of me I couldn't tell you where.
I'll get on it.
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Post by Fall Breaks on Mar 8, 2019 5:33:22 GMT -5
One way of searching Bellagio (or any site) is by typing, for example, this in Google's search field:
"Why" site:http://bellagio10452.com
Through which I found that "Why" was recorded Nov 17, 1977.
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Post by AGD on Mar 8, 2019 6:01:07 GMT -5
Most useful tip. Thanks.
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 8, 2019 8:42:29 GMT -5
One way of searching Bellagio (or any site) is by typing, for example, this in Google's search field: "Why" site:http://bellagio10452.com Through which I found that "Why" was recorded Nov 17, 1977. Ahh, this is a super-handy work-around, thank you! And Andrew - I hope I didn't come across as ungrateful, your site is an amazing resource. |
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Post by aquarius on Mar 8, 2019 9:43:22 GMT -5
Princevault is great, but no real site like that exists for the Beach Boys.
The best resources for this kind of thing is the Bellagio site, as mentioned; and also there are quite a lot of great ES Quarterly issues with very valuable information, but the picture is still very incomplete compared to Princevault. Still I have sessionographies for Shut Down Vol. II, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Smile (from the big box), Friends LA, (Light Album) and a few others.
Ian Rustin's book about the Beach Boys in concert also has some good info for setlists and so on.
By the way, my digital Made in California did come with a digital booklet; however, what info there is on it is not really helpful.
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Post by g00dvibrations on Mar 8, 2019 13:37:47 GMT -5
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 8, 2019 19:38:04 GMT -5
Princevault is great, but no real site like that exists for the Beach Boys. The best resources for this kind of thing is the Bellagio site, as mentioned; and also there are quite a lot of great ES Quarterly issues with very valuable information, but the picture is still very incomplete compared to Princevault. Still I have sessionographies for Shut Down Vol. II, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Smile (from the big box), Friends LA, (Light Album) and a few others. Ian Rustin's book about the Beach Boys in concert also has some good info for setlists and so on. By the way, my digital Made in California did come with a digital booklet; however, what info there is on it is not really helpful. Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, the fact that I’m an American ex-pat and ESQ has no digital copies of their magazines means it’s prohibitively expensive to get them. I’d buy up the lot if there were digital copies. I guess I should have been more specific - my Made in California technically has a “digital booklet”, in that it’s a PDF with the cover and track listing, but it’s not a true digital version of the book from the box. Yes! Something like that would be perfect. I guess I’ve been spoiled by being a Beatles fan and there being this insane wealth of documentation about every burp and fart where the best versions of each recording are available (officially and unofficially), mix variations, etc. I think Andrew’s site has a great deal of this info already, but just spread around the site. Having it in a searchable database that cross references the data would be even more impressive (of course it’s easy for me to sit here and SAY what would be nice, since I have no ability to actually create it!) |
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Post by AGD on Mar 9, 2019 2:57:34 GMT -5
What would be more impressive still would be me having the first idea as to how to go about doing that !
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Post by aquarius on Mar 9, 2019 3:44:26 GMT -5
Princevault is great, but no real site like that exists for the Beach Boys. The best resources for this kind of thing is the Bellagio site, as mentioned; and also there are quite a lot of great ES Quarterly issues with very valuable information, but the picture is still very incomplete compared to Princevault. Still I have sessionographies for Shut Down Vol. II, All Summer Long, Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Smile (from the big box), Friends LA, (Light Album) and a few others. Ian Rustin's book about the Beach Boys in concert also has some good info for setlists and so on. By the way, my digital Made in California did come with a digital booklet; however, what info there is on it is not really helpful. Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, the fact that I’m an American ex-pat and ESQ has no digital copies of their magazines means it’s prohibitively expensive to get them. I’d buy up the lot if there were digital copies. I guess I should have been more specific - my Made in California technically has a “digital booklet”, in that it’s a PDF with the cover and track listing, but it’s not a true digital version of the book from the box. Yes! Something like that would be perfect. I guess I’ve been spoiled by being a Beatles fan and there being this insane wealth of documentation about every burp and fart where the best versions of each recording are available (officially and unofficially), mix variations, etc. I think Andrew’s site has a great deal of this info already, but just spread around the site. Having it in a searchable database that cross references the data would be even more impressive (of course it’s easy for me to sit here and SAY what would be nice, since I have no ability to actually create it!) I understand. I’m an American emigrant myself, but I spend the money anyway. Can’t resist. The Princevault is modeled on Wikipedia it looks like. Could it be possible that these kind of sites are readymade, or must they be designed from the bottom up? |
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Post by g00dvibrations on Mar 9, 2019 4:57:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, the fact that I’m an American ex-pat and ESQ has no digital copies of their magazines means it’s prohibitively expensive to get them. I’d buy up the lot if there were digital copies. I guess I should have been more specific - my Made in California technically has a “digital booklet”, in that it’s a PDF with the cover and track listing, but it’s not a true digital version of the book from the box. Yes! Something like that would be perfect. I guess I’ve been spoiled by being a Beatles fan and there being this insane wealth of documentation about every burp and fart where the best versions of each recording are available (officially and unofficially), mix variations, etc. I think Andrew’s site has a great deal of this info already, but just spread around the site. Having it in a searchable database that cross references the data would be even more impressive (of course it’s easy for me to sit here and SAY what would be nice, since I have no ability to actually create it!) I understand. I’m an American emigrant myself, but I spend the money anyway. Can’t resist. The Princevault is modeled on Wikipedia it looks like. Could it be possible that these kind of sites are readymade, or must they be designed from the bottom up? It's easy to set up a Wiki site (and slightly more tedious to get all the content together). When you hit that sweet spot where the basic content is there its not too bad. I believe there is a Beach Boys wiki over at Wikia Fandom, which I don't think has much content. But Fandom's tendency for commercialisation annoys me (e.g., renaming itself to Fandom). Now, I'm biased as I am/was involved at sites hosted by them, have known the people who run it and even contributed two or three lines of code at one point, but I'd start one at ShoutWiki if I was gonna start a new wiki. (I am happy to try and help people wanting to set up a wiki or need help doing things for a BB website - although as my own proves, don't ask me about making it look pretty...) |
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 9, 2019 20:00:07 GMT -5
I understand. I’m an American emigrant myself, but I spend the money anyway. Can’t resist. I'm jealous! Between the shipping costs and space being a premium here in Japan, I can't convince myself to pull the trigger. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't go to the site and consider it many times. It's easy to set up a Wiki site (and slightly more tedious to get all the content together). When you hit that sweet spot where the basic content is there its not too bad. I believe there is a Beach Boys wiki over at Wikia Fandom, which I don't think has much content. But Fandom's tendency for commercialisation annoys me (e.g., renaming itself to Fandom). Now, I'm biased as I am/was involved at sites hosted by them, have known the people who run it and even contributed two or three lines of code at one point, but I'd start one at ShoutWiki if I was gonna start a new wiki. (I am happy to try and help people wanting to set up a wiki or need help doing things for a BB website - although as my own proves, don't ask me about making it look pretty...) It's been forever since I was in the web design/coding game, so I genuinely have no idea what would work best. In broad strokes, the way I imagined it it would be a database with all of the information, maybe with song titles being the starting point, so something like: Song title Song writer(s) First release album Recording date(s) Alternate version(s) Other album releases And so on. Each page of the site, rather than being a separate, static page of information, would primarily be a series of queries from the database. So if I want to see a list of songs from a certain date, it could be pulled up by running a query for recording date = X, sorted alphabetically by song title. But again, I have no idea how things like Wiki or Fandom or what have you are built, it's been so long so I dealt with that stuff. |
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Post by g00dvibrations on Mar 9, 2019 20:08:39 GMT -5
I understand. I’m an American emigrant myself, but I spend the money anyway. Can’t resist. I'm jealous! Between the shipping costs and space being a premium here in Japan, I can't convince myself to pull the trigger. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't go to the site and consider it many times. It's easy to set up a Wiki site (and slightly more tedious to get all the content together). When you hit that sweet spot where the basic content is there its not too bad. I believe there is a Beach Boys wiki over at Wikia Fandom, which I don't think has much content. But Fandom's tendency for commercialisation annoys me (e.g., renaming itself to Fandom). Now, I'm biased as I am/was involved at sites hosted by them, have known the people who run it and even contributed two or three lines of code at one point, but I'd start one at ShoutWiki if I was gonna start a new wiki. (I am happy to try and help people wanting to set up a wiki or need help doing things for a BB website - although as my own proves, don't ask me about making it look pretty...) It's been forever since I was in the web design/coding game, so I genuinely have no idea what would work best. In broad strokes, the way I imagined it it would be a database with all of the information, maybe with song titles being the starting point, so something like: Song title Song writer(s) First release album Recording date(s) Alternate version(s) Other album releases And so on. Each page of the site, rather than being a separate, static page of information, would primarily be a series of queries from the database. So if I want to see a list of songs from a certain date, it could be pulled up by running a query for recording date = X, sorted alphabetically by song title. But again, I have no idea how things like Wiki or Fandom or what have you are built, it's been so long so I dealt with that stuff. Wikis are a lot less dynamic in that sense - you can make use of templates for formatting purposes, but generally you are entering all the information manually. Its more like a static page than a dynamic data thing, unless you are super clever, but you are still limited. Look at it this way - I wouldn't do the site I'm doing with beach boys covers using a wiki, because to add a new cover of God Only Knows I'd have to go and manually type it into a list on a page, format it correctly, etc. If I wanted it on a second page, I'd have to add it there manually too. Whereas, as you suggest, using a database query I can just add a table row and it shows up in all the right places automatically. The Prince Vault is a Wiki - all that info is hardcoded. I'd hope JeffLynneSong database uses an actual database and isn't hardcoded, because that would be tedious. If I was starting this site (and I currently don't plan to since I haven't finished my current one yet!), I'd definitely use the database route you mentioned |
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kirkk
Dude/Dudette
Posts: 74
Likes: 84
Favorite Album: Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Sunflower... but I could go on and on...
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Post by kirkk on Mar 9, 2019 21:27:45 GMT -5
g00dvibrations - The idea that PrinceVault is all hard-coded is pretty mind-blowing. Looking at it more closely, it clearly is, but wow... the amount of time involved is staggering. Good to know about wiki etc. If there was a fairly straight forward out-of-the-box solution, I’d be interested in helping. I just don’t have the backend knowledge to create something like what we’re discussing from scratch.
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