jh055
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Favorite Album: Sunflower. No, Friends! Um....
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Post by jh055 on Feb 27, 2019 15:49:33 GMT -5
Recently listened to the Sail On podcast latest episode discussing "Party." Got me thinking about this record, and it's timing. And, with the benefit of hindsight, what a terrible mis-calculation it was, at least from a credibility standpoint. As a kid, I didn't think about it for a second, except, Barbara Ann was sure catchy, and the Boys singing Beatles songs was pretty cool..
But for the older hipper rock cognoscenti , how must this record have been received? Maybe, This band is a bunch of lightweights, who weren't growing at the same rate as their "contemporaries", The Byrds, Beatles, Rolling Stones, et.al. For a band that had only months before released the dazzling studio gem California Girls, how does Hully Gully, Or Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow follow? Surely, this record had to influence Capitol records execs to take the Boys less seriously as well, despite Barbara Anns's success...
Thus, perhaps Party explains why the next album - Pet Sounds didn't receive the royal treatment it surely deserved, and when PS didn't sell as expected, Capitol rushed out a Greatest Hits package within months..
Anyone with me here? Sure, it's fun, but put it in context, it was released during the same year Rubber Soul came out. That they covered not one, not two, but Three Beatles songs to me, speaks volumes about where they saw themselves in the Rock pantheon..Talk about inferiority complexes...
And before I retreat to my fallout shelter, yes, i know that Brian was pressured to release something quickly, and there was no one in their camp to advocate for the Band....
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Post by kds on Feb 27, 2019 16:04:54 GMT -5
Well, The Beach Boys never did have a great sense of timing when it came to releases.
Like you said, in 1965, the Beach Boys released songs like Kiss Me Baby, Please Let Me Wonder, When I Grow Up, CA Girls, Let Him Run Wild, and The Little Girl I Once Knew among others. And they follow that up with a collection of acoustic covers during a "party."
That's right up there with following up one of the great albums of all time with Smiley Smile.
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Post by monolithic on Feb 27, 2019 16:57:03 GMT -5
While I understand that way of thinking, I would personally say that Party was an inspired choice by Brian. It was a huge hit and bought him some time.
I actually think releasing both Little Girl I Once Knew (in that form) and the uncommercial Caroline No as singles perhaps had a more negative impact at the time.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 27, 2019 18:51:15 GMT -5
To me Party is a brilliant concept album.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 27, 2019 21:01:16 GMT -5
Recently listened to the Sail On podcast latest episode discussing "Party." Got me thinking about this record, and it's timing. And, with the benefit of hindsight, what a terrible mis-calculation it was, at least from a credibility standpoint. As a kid, I didn't think about it for a second, except, Barbara Ann was sure catchy, and the Boys singing Beatles songs was pretty cool.. But for the older hipper rock cognoscenti , how must this record have been received? Maybe, This band is a bunch of lightweights, who weren't growing at the same rate as their "contemporaries", The Byrds, Beatles, Rolling Stones, et.al. For a band that had only months before released the dazzling studio gem California Girls, how does Hully Gully, Or Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow follow? Surely, this record had to influence Capitol records execs to take the Boys less seriously as well, despite Barbara Anns's success... Thus, perhaps Party explains why the next album - Pet Sounds didn't receive the royal treatment it surely deserved, and when PS didn't sell as expected, Capitol rushed out a Greatest Hits package within months.. Anyone with me here? Sure, it's fun, but put it in context, it was released during the same year Rubber Soul came out. That they covered not one, not two, but Three Beatles songs to me, speaks volumes about where they saw themselves in the Rock pantheon..Talk about inferiority complexes... And before I retreat to my fallout shelter, yes, i know that Brian was pressured to release something quickly, and there was no one in their camp to advocate for the Band.... Wasn't it thrown together to fulfill some contract obligation? I absolutely loved the Party sessions CDs released a couple of years ago and blasted it in my car in a way I could not do in my bedroom, on a turntable with the original Party. I'm not sure that Pet Sounds release got the promotion to get it off the ground. If nothing else it is fun to sing along to. And validated the mutual admiration society that was the Beatles-BB dynamic.
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Post by Autotune on Feb 27, 2019 22:05:03 GMT -5
Regarding Pet Sounds, I’ve heard that it became gold way back when, but wasn’t certified. If that’s the case, its success and the general opinion on label lack of support must be reconsidered. That Capitol put out Best Of may be an indication of such lack of support. But the label must have been aware of PS sales numbers. So how come?
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 27, 2019 22:57:17 GMT -5
Regarding Pet Sounds, I’ve heard that it became gold way back when, but wasn’t certified. If that’s the case, its success and the general opinion on label lack of support must be reconsidered. That Capitol put out Best Of may be an indication of such lack of support. But the label must have been aware of PS sales numbers. So how come? Just tracking Billboard charts debunks that old myth, unless Capitol had no confidence in an album that had quickly risen to the Top 10 when BOTBB was released after a series of Top 10 albums and Top 10 and #1 singles.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 28, 2019 7:13:06 GMT -5
Nik Venet on why BOTBB: "The 'Best of' package was put together while Brian was working on PS. There was a great love at the time of Beach Boys product. ... There were (salesmen) out there that could sell Beach Boys product and the (customers) were asking for it. The Pet Sounds album was supposed to be ready a long time before, and it wasn't going to be ready. The whole company was geared up to the 'best of' package. Everything had been locked in, magazine advertising, the separations for the cover had been printed and stacked in a warehouse."
So BOTBB happened because Capitol had confidence in the BBs because they were so in demand because of product like the Party album and BA. The exact opposite of the old no-confidence "false narrative". Did that narrative begin with Leaf's book.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 28, 2019 11:30:26 GMT -5
Nik Venet on why BOTBB: "The 'Best of' package was put together while Brian was working on PS. There was a great love at the time of Beach Boys product. ... There were (salesmen) out there that could sell Beach Boys product and the (customers) were asking for it. The Pet Sounds album was supposed to be ready a long time before, and it wasn't going to be ready. The whole company was geared up to the 'best of' package. Everything had been locked in, magazine advertising, the separations for the cover had been printed and stacked in a warehouse." So BOTBB happened because Capitol had confidence in the BBs because they were so in demand because of product like the Party album and BA. The exact opposite of the old no-confidence "false narrative". Did that narrative begin with Leaf's book. Cam - I have not read DL's book so I don't know what was written. I did look at his website which looks very impressive. I do think he has amazing cinematography and sound work. His wiki page says that he is about 66 years old which means that he was 13 or 14 when BOTBB - Vol 1 came out. He would have just entered that era in high school when you were a geek if you liked the BB's. Venet is just spouting a comfortable company statement. That was his job. And I have heard/seen assertions by BB's, whom I consider the primary resource, that the re-packs were a great source of no-confidence in the newer music. They would have had the firsthand knowledge and the impressions of why they were issued and not "held back" - in the same way you make a good cup of tea. You boil the water to a rolling boil and then you let it steep. Pet Sounds was not fully steeped in the market, when a short few weeks later the re-packs were out and undermined the Big Kahuna (Pet Sounds.) It diluted the release, not in terms of quality but rightful attention that should have been paid. Best of Vol 1 was the shiny new thing. What a laughably poor revisionist defense. It seems the sales were certified, thanks to some in-house (EH) research but at the time, I consider it to be a disgrace. That said, BB Vol. 1 was my second LP purchase in my life. After Pet Sounds, I just had to have-it-all and thus began collecting every LP I could get my pre-teen hands on. I was hooked for a lifetime.
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Post by Cam Mott on Feb 28, 2019 11:36:27 GMT -5
We will just disagree where we do.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 28, 2019 11:46:29 GMT -5
We will just disagree where we do. Cam - That is fine. I don't believe the need for releasing "BB product." Just prior to Pet Sounds coming out - there was the Sloop single, which did really well and Al said at a recent Storytellers show, that they (Capitol) wanted a hit on Pet Sounds. I see it as a cash grab of greatest hits, and making money, while the getting ($$) was good.
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jh055
Grommet
Posts: 34
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Favorite Album: Sunflower. No, Friends! Um....
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Post by jh055 on Feb 28, 2019 13:44:18 GMT -5
Agree very much w Filldeplage. BOTBB was IMO, a signal that Capitol did not respect THe BB’s beyond a teen band that would not have lasting success, and were looking to maximize the cash..Party did not help that perception. And looking at the song lineup on Best Of, Capitol must have planned and pressed that record BEFORE even SDSN. No Cal Girls, OR Barbara Ann on a package purporting to be The Beach Boys Greatest hits?!
And yes, Pet Sounds DID sell well, and had hit singles, but for whatever reason, was, as I said earlier, not given the extended promotion and hype it should have. And, I would imagine, that was soul crushing to Brian..no small wonder then, that he created even BIGGER hits post PS!
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Post by kds on Feb 28, 2019 14:23:35 GMT -5
Agree very much w Filldeplage. BOTBB was IMO, a signal that Capitol did not respect THe BB’s beyond a teen band that would not have lasting success, and were looking to maximize the cash..Party did not help that perception. And looking at the song lineup on Best Of, Capitol must have planned and pressed that record BEFORE even SDSN. No Cal Girls, OR Barbara Ann on a package purporting to be The Beach Boys Greatest hits?! And yes, Pet Sounds DID sell well, and had hit singles, but for whatever reason, was, as I said earlier, not given the extended promotion and hype it should have. And, I would imagine, that was soul crushing to Brian..no small wonder then, that he created even BIGGER hits post PS! It's kind of funny thinking how little the label respected Pet Sounds, considering it's been reissued almost as many times as The Bible.
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Post by filledeplage on Feb 28, 2019 15:07:54 GMT -5
Agree very much w Filldeplage. BOTBB was IMO, a signal that Capitol did not respect THe BB’s beyond a teen band that would not have lasting success, and were looking to maximize the cash..Party did not help that perception. And looking at the song lineup on Best Of, Capitol must have planned and pressed that record BEFORE even SDSN. No Cal Girls, OR Barbara Ann on a package purporting to be The Beach Boys Greatest hits?! And yes, Pet Sounds DID sell well, and had hit singles, but for whatever reason, was, as I said earlier, not given the extended promotion and hype it should have. And, I would imagine, that was soul crushing to Brian..no small wonder then, that he created even BIGGER hits post PS! It's kind of funny thinking how little the label respected Pet Sounds, considering it's been reissued almost as many times as The Bible. As many times as The Bible...so
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Feb 28, 2019 17:51:45 GMT -5
To me Party is a brilliant concept album. Agree with this summation. Beats me why some fans bash the album due to background chatter when there's "Party" in the title.
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Post by kenmac55 on Mar 2, 2019 16:10:33 GMT -5
A provocative position, JH. On the one hand, "Party!" was a fairly brilliant way to get out "new" material and get Capitol off Brian's back. On the other hand, given the time actually spent in the studio, the song selection could have been more varied. It is a shame that Beatles songs make up a quarter of the offerings, like many pre-easy listening releases of the time. In my book, tho, they're all fun and it's cool to hear Dennis do Lennon's "Hide Your Love Away." I do love the fact that the songs can be heard now without the dropped-in chatter, and that on CD they flow more smoothly than ever. I'm not sure that the "hipster" factor you cite had kicked in yet in '65, though in retrospective this release reinforces the Boys' "square" image. And we shouldn't forget that it did indeed influence later "unplugged" sessions as many other musicians dug it.
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Post by The Cap'n on Mar 2, 2019 16:52:36 GMT -5
I like part of the idea of Party!--the mostly unplugged, mostly covers part; not the actual "we're having a party" with nonsense background noise and talk--more than I like the album itself. But I don't hate it, either. And I actually love that some of the covers were contemporary artists, not just oldies (funny as it is to think of songs from just a few years earlier being "oldies" now that we've got six decades or so of rock and roll to go back to). Personally I love when bands do that. For a more recent example, I was in heaven in the mid 00s when Of Montreal covered the Shins' "Know Your Onion" and the Fiery Furnaces' "Tropical Iceland." Even Ryan Adams covering and releasing the entirety of Taylor Swift's 1989 was a great idea.
But I doubt the album impacted the label's or the public's view of their seriousness or whatever. I think kenmac55 is probably right about hipsterism probably being weaker in rock and roll at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 17:06:36 GMT -5
The Beach Boys' Party! is the group's most consistent album.
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jh055
Grommet
Posts: 34
Likes: 65
Favorite Album: Sunflower. No, Friends! Um....
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Post by jh055 on Mar 2, 2019 18:16:26 GMT -5
I like part of the idea of Party!--the mostly unplugged, mostly covers part; not the actual "we're having a party" with nonsense background noise and talk--more than I like the album itself. But I don't hate it, either. And I actually love that some of the covers were contemporary artists, not just oldies (funny as it is to think of songs from just a few years earlier being "oldies" now that we've got six decades or so of rock and roll to go back to). Personally I love when bands do that. For a more recent example, I was in heaven in the mid 00s when Of Montreal covered the Shins' "Know Your Onion" and the Fiery Furnaces' "Tropical Iceland." Even Ryan Adams covering and releasing the entirety of Taylor Swift's 1989 was a great idea.
But I doubt the album impacted the label's or the public's view of their seriousness or whatever. I think kenmac55 is probably right about hipsterism probably being weaker in rock and roll at the time.
To be clear, I don’t “hate” the Party! Album either....my main argument was/is, the idea of unplugged oldies (especially Beatles songs) was a very non-progressive idea in 1965, at a crucial time, when in rock, all ears were turning towards the “next big thing” and it was Revolver. Or 5th Dimension, or Satisfaction. It wasn’t Hully Gully, papa oom mow mow, or the 1958 Everly’s hit Devoted to you...to those that say “hipsters came later” probably true, but I say Capitol execs were keeping an ear to the ground, and found Brian and company to be not on the cutting edge. Of course, they were wrong, but, nevertheless....
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Post by Autotune on Mar 2, 2019 19:01:08 GMT -5
Party! is a great concept and a compelling album. We know Brian was the producer, and we assume it was his project in order to deliver product quickly and devote precious time to his next album. But... whose idea was to create this concept? And.. how original was this concept? Were there other releases at the time with such a similar concept? There’s a party atmosphere in some studio recordings from the 60s (some of Spector’s productions come to mind), but this seems pretty unique. Anyone knows anything?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 19:13:43 GMT -5
I hardly ever listen to Party, even when I was discovering it as a newbie. There just aren't many "go to" songs on there that draw me to it or keep me coming back other than "Barbara Ann" and maybe "Devoted To You". If Mike Love would've chosen the Party tracklist, oh jeez, there would be hell to pay...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 19:33:43 GMT -5
Instead of looking for another party concept record as the model for the album, you should consider that the party atmosphere was appearing on hit records from that time. There was Gary U.S. Bonds' Quarter To Three, Johnny Rivers' SEVENTH SON, Ramsey Lewis' IN CROWD. Two of those were cover songs. I could see Brian going, 'hey, why not make a whole album of party songs?'
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Post by Beach Boys Fan on Mar 2, 2019 19:42:55 GMT -5
Instead of looking for another party concept record as the model for the album, you should consider that the party atmosphere was appearing on hit records from that time. There was Gary U.S. Bonds' Quarter To Three, Johnny Rivers' SEVENTH SON, Ramsey Lewis' IN CROWD. Two of those were cover songs. I could see Brian going, 'hey, why not make a whole album of party songs?'
Which means full party album is fresh idea. Cool!
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Post by Cam Mott on Mar 2, 2019 20:51:24 GMT -5
There was Dylan's "Rainy Day Woman #12 and 35" recorded shortly after.
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jh055
Grommet
Posts: 34
Likes: 65
Favorite Album: Sunflower. No, Friends! Um....
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Post by jh055 on Mar 2, 2019 21:44:43 GMT -5
Instead of looking for another party concept record as the model for the album, you should consider that the party atmosphere was appearing on hit records from that time. There was Gary U.S. Bonds' Quarter To Three, Johnny Rivers' SEVENTH SON, Ramsey Lewis' IN CROWD. Two of those were cover songs. I could see Brian going, 'hey, why not make a whole album of party songs?'
Good points!
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