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Post by craigslowinski on Jan 30, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -5
Can anyone explain why the SIP files won't last 50 years? Were they recorded only on digital? Yes, per the liner notes, it was recorded on an Apple MacIntosh Quadra 900 using Eltekon hard drives running a 16-track Pro Tools rig that was being Beta-tested.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:05:34 GMT -5
Can anyone explain why the SIP files won't last 50 years? Were they recorded only on digital? Yes, per the liner notes, it was recorded on a McIntosh running a 16-track Pro Tools rig that was being Beta-tested. Thanks for the clarification, I dont own SIP, I've only heard it on YouTube. That's definitely a shortsighted move. Digital technology is great, but analog will always sound better and when stored properly will last longer. Magnetic tape can burn and I'm sure it degrades over time, but hard drives can fail for no discernible reason, especially when they a decade+ old.
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Post by craigslowinski on Jan 30, 2019 13:28:51 GMT -5
Yes, per the liner notes, it was recorded on a McIntosh running a 16-track Pro Tools rig that was being Beta-tested. Thanks for the clarification, I dont own SIP, I've only heard it on YouTube. That's definitely a shortsighted move. Digital technology is great, but analog will always sound better and when stored properly will last longer. Magnetic tape can burn and I'm sure it degrades over time, but hard drives can fail for no discernible reason, especially when they a decade+ old. Digital recording technology has definitely improved over the last three decades or so, to the point where albums like TWGMTR and NPP can be completely recorded on Pro Tools and still sound great (technically, at least). However, I'm sure those master files were backed up...hopefully more than once.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 13:36:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification, I dont own SIP, I've only heard it on YouTube. That's definitely a shortsighted move. Digital technology is great, but analog will always sound better and when stored properly will last longer. Magnetic tape can burn and I'm sure it degrades over time, but hard drives can fail for no discernible reason, especially when they a decade+ old. Digital recording technology has definitely improved over the last three decades or so, to the point where albums like TWGMTR and NPP can be completely recorded on Pro Tools and still sound great (technically, at least). However, I'm sure those master files were backed up...hopefully more than once. We will have to agree to disagree there. I find the production/arrangement of those albums to be very subpar and hallow, personally. Maybe that's not a problem with digital recording so much as digital production though.
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Post by craigslowinski on Jan 30, 2019 13:49:31 GMT -5
Digital recording technology has definitely improved over the last three decades or so, to the point where albums like TWGMTR and NPP can be completely recorded on Pro Tools and still sound great (technically, at least). However, I'm sure those master files were backed up...hopefully more than once. We will have to agree to disagree there. I find the production/arrangement of those albums to be very subpar and hallow, personally. Maybe that's not a problem with digital recording so much as digital production though. Right...that's why I said "technically, at least". Any production/arrangement problems that might exist have nothing to do with the recording technology, but lie rather on the artistic side.
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Post by The Cap'n on Jan 30, 2019 14:22:23 GMT -5
Brief but relevant tangent, the fear of digital hardware, software, and media is why famed engineer/producer Steve Albini (to name the most prominent example I've heard of) apparently turns over a physical tape master to each client at the end of every project. As amazing as digital technology has been, it's also a risky proposition as technology turns over so quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 14:38:35 GMT -5
We will have to agree to disagree there. I find the production/arrangement of those albums to be very subpar and hallow, personally. Maybe that's not a problem with digital recording so much as digital production though. Right...that's why I said "technically, at least". Any production/arrangement problems that might exist have nothing to do with the recording technology, but lie rather on the artistic side. Yeah. The reason why I say analog will always be better is because analog is nature. Analog recordings preserve everything exactly as it happened. Digital technology converts it into 0s and 1s, corrupting that data and simplifying it so a computer can read it. Now, granted, after a certain point the human ear cannot tell the difference anymore, but that doesn't change the fact that the analog is a "truer" recording.
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Post by Will/P.P. on Jan 30, 2019 14:40:54 GMT -5
That was a great read. Thanks to all who made it possible and typed it up for us to learn and enjoy!
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Post by Vale on Jan 30, 2019 14:59:47 GMT -5
Whoever's hoarding those acetates is a real life Mr Burns figure. So true! I guess he is a ‘fan’ and it is possible he’s reading all these threads... I still hope he will change his mind and give those acetates to Alan and Mark one day. It is also possible that other acetates, tapes or film reels are in the hands of people like him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 15:02:48 GMT -5
Whoever's hoarding those acetates is a real life Mr Burns figure. So true! I guess he is a ‘fan’ and it is possible he’s reading all these threads... I still hope he will change his mind and give those acetates to Alan and Mark one day. It is also possible that other acetates, tapes or film reels are in the hands of people like him. Ive thought of starting a thread about this and/or searching thru the SS archives. Do we know what acetates/tapes/recordings are definitively missing?
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bd
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Post by bd on Jan 30, 2019 16:07:11 GMT -5
Only “Sweet & Bitter” was directly acknowledged. But it does make me more hopeful about the other tracks. Given Brian can be heard doing a count-in at the beginning of Fading Love Song and there's that postcard signed by him, I don't see any reason to doubt it. The copyright for Out in the Country was registered to Don and Brian in the 70s and the arrangement of the faster version would be incredibly hard to fake. Not to mention it lines up with the Feb '72 session info. That’s fair. I was just being a stickler by saying M & A didn’t specifically comment on the other songs.
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bd
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Post by bd on Jan 30, 2019 16:25:17 GMT -5
Given Brian can be heard doing a count-in at the beginning of Fading Love Song and there's that postcard signed by him, I don't see any reason to doubt it. The copyright for Out in the Country was registered to Don and Brian in the 70s and the arrangement of the faster version would be incredibly hard to fake. Not to mention it lines up with the Feb '72 session info. As far as I can tell on copyright.gov, Don registered “Out in the Country” in 2004 (with a date of creation listed of 1972 and giving co-author credit to Brian). Makes it a little bit more of a grey idea that he registered it so long after the fact.
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Post by nogosherbet on Jan 30, 2019 21:11:37 GMT -5
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with everyone else that this Q&A was fantastic. Huge thanks to those who participated and of course to Alan and Mark, both of whom I consider honorary Beach Boys. Whoever's hoarding those acetates is a real life Mr Burns figure. So true! I guess he is a ‘fan’ and it is possible he’s reading all these threads... I still hope he will change his mind and give those acetates to Alan and Mark one day. It is also possible that other acetates, tapes or film reels are in the hands of people like him. I really just want to know why someone would hold on to something like that and not share it. What's the point?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 21:38:01 GMT -5
Just want to put it out into the universe that even though I know it's a long shot, I would buy any and probably all official Spring releases.
Also, the potential for an In Concert box set is super exciting!
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Post by kds on Jan 31, 2019 8:53:40 GMT -5
Just want to put it out into the universe that even though I know it's a long shot, I would buy any and probably all official Spring releases. Also, the potential for an In Concert box set is super exciting! I've been saying for years that I think The Beach Boys should do a full live anthology. I think they're very underrated as a live group. The In Concert album is a prime example, and I really hope we can some tangible live releases. While it's likely not in the pipeline, I'd also welcome some live shows from the 1993 GV Tour, and some real live releases from 2012.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 9:12:57 GMT -5
I've been saying for years that I think The Beach Boys should do a full live anthology. I think they're very underrated as a live group. The In Concert album is a prime example, and I really hope we can some tangible live releases. While it's likely not in the pipeline, I'd also welcome some live shows from the 1993 GV Tour, and some real live releases from 2012. A tangible live anthology would be incredible!
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Post by kds on Jan 31, 2019 9:16:00 GMT -5
I've been saying for years that I think The Beach Boys should do a full live anthology. I think they're very underrated as a live group. The In Concert album is a prime example, and I really hope we can some tangible live releases. While it's likely not in the pipeline, I'd also welcome some live shows from the 1993 GV Tour, and some real live releases from 2012. A tangible live anthology would be incredible! It's a pity there don't seem to be any filmed shows from the CATP/Holland/In Concert era, because a DVD or BluRay to go along with it would be incredible. But, maybe there's something in the vaults.
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Post by Vale on Jan 31, 2019 10:06:36 GMT -5
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with everyone else that this Q&A was fantastic. Huge thanks to those who participated and of course to Alan and Mark, both of whom I consider honorary Beach Boys. I really just want to know why someone would hold on to something like that and not share it. What's the point? What are the odds they could convince Brian to personally ring up the owner and say "hey, give me my music back"? Legally, could he do it?
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Post by Jim on Jan 31, 2019 10:13:09 GMT -5
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with everyone else that this Q&A was fantastic. Huge thanks to those who participated and of course to Alan and Mark, both of whom I consider honorary Beach Boys. So true! I guess he is a ‘fan’ and it is possible he’s reading all these threads... I still hope he will change his mind and give those acetates to Alan and Mark one day. It is also possible that other acetates, tapes or film reels are in the hands of people like him. I really just want to know why someone would hold on to something like that and not share it. What's the point? I don't get it either. Whenever I have come across something cool, I like sharing and letting people know about it. Makes it more fun. I couldn't understand hoarding this stuff to themselves.
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Post by AGD on Jan 31, 2019 10:55:41 GMT -5
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with everyone else that this Q&A was fantastic. Huge thanks to those who participated and of course to Alan and Mark, both of whom I consider honorary Beach Boys. I really just want to know why someone would hold on to something like that and not share it. What's the point? I don't get it either. Whenever I have come across something cool, I like sharing and letting people know about it. Makes it more fun. I couldn't understand hoarding this stuff to themselves. In the past there was a a man who collected silent movies. He never watched them, and never let anyone else watch them (he had many very rare ones) but, as he said to historian Kevin Brownlow, he liked the idea of having them. I'm guessing it's the "I've-got-someting-you-haven't" mentality. I've met a few BB fans like that, sad to relate.
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Post by nach0king on Jan 31, 2019 12:04:28 GMT -5
What was impressive about the Q&A was that it ran almost three hours. I expected them to stay for a polite hour. After the initial madness the moderators did a superb job of reining everyone's enthusiasm to an appropriate level and after that it seemed Mark and Alan were happy to get deep into the lore. I was at work so could only tab in and out but it was a real thrill getting to hear so much of the history.
But how disappointing that things like the Inside Pop recordings are apparently lost forever. Unless there's a miracle in the CBS vaults somewhere.
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