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Post by ian on Apr 3, 2024 18:17:32 GMT -5
So I found a rare Dennis interview from August 1971-it took place in New York while he was visiting the city with his then wife Barbara. Apparently Dennis was trying to break into making music for commercials and met for some business meetings (not sure that anything came of this)...He stated that he was done touring ("I'm not going on the road anymore") because he couldn't deal with all the travel and plane flights....It's interesting because by the next tour in late Sept 1971 he'd obviously changed his mind. Dennis said that he enjoyed recording with the BBs but criticized the Surf's Up album that had just been released. "With 'Riot' we really cracked up in the studio doing it...but Carl and I had a little disagreement...I have a belief in my music and if it sounds nothing like what it should on the album-it should have a flow to it, from one song to another. Well it didn't have a flow, it didn't sound like the Beach Boys. They thought it did. I said 'bull' and pulled my music off. Three or four songs...They're not on the album." When asked if it was a bad argument...he said 'Yeah as far as brothers go. Do you have a brother? Those things can be lousy. It's happened with lots of people. I've seen fistfights going, like with Steve Stills and Neil Young. But with Carl, when it was all over, we laughed together 10 minutes later. But I'll just feel more comfortable making my music on my own." Dennis also discussed his hand injury and stated that Riot was the last song he played drums on before his accident. "All the nerves were severed and I can't play drums anymore. I lost all the nerves in my thumb and first fingers. Those are the two fingers that I hold the drumstick with in my right hand. I have no strength or feeling there. I play 30 seconds before the stick slips out. They say it will take three years for the nerves to heal up." He noted that when he played on the televised Central Park show on July 2/3-he could only play piano with his left hand. He was excited because when he got back to California he was going to start recording with Daryl Dragon. "We're going to work together, aside from what we do with the Beach Boys. We have almost a full album recorded already."
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Post by WillJC on Apr 3, 2024 18:22:29 GMT -5
This is fascinating, would you be able to post a scan or photo Ian?
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Post by ian on Apr 3, 2024 18:41:55 GMT -5
Scanners not working right now....and I am a bit busy but maybe soon....But that is the most interesting parts I think. He also talked about riding the Cyclone at Coney Island and going to Greenwich Village...
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Post by Mikie on Apr 3, 2024 22:02:19 GMT -5
"August 1971 - Dennis said that he enjoyed recording with the BBs but criticized the Surf's Up album that had just been released. "With 'Riot' we really cracked up in the studio doing it...but Carl and I had a little disagreement...I have a belief in my music and if it sounds nothing like what it should on the album-it should have a flow to it, from one song to another. Well it didn't have a flow, it didn't sound like the Beach Boys. They thought it did. I said 'bull' and pulled my music off. Three or four songs...They're not on the album." When asked if it was a bad argument...he said 'Yeah as far as brothers go. But with Carl, when it was all over, we laughed together 10 minutes later. But I'll just feel more comfortable making my music on my own."
Well, that confirms what went down when he pulled the songs off the Surf's Up album. Glad they ended up laughing about it. I don't think he lived to see those songs formally released, did he (other than a song or two that went on the "Carl & The Passions" album? He had the Rumbo single out with Daryl, was recording the "Poops" material with him, and was considering a solo career at that point.
"Dennis also discussed his hand injury and stated that Riot was the last song he played drums on before his accident. "All the nerves were severed and I can't play drums anymore. I lost all the nerves in my thumb and first fingers. Those are the two fingers that I hold the drumstick with in my right hand. I have no strength or feeling there. I play 30 seconds before the stick slips out. They say it will take three years for the nerves to heal up."
Dennis was right. His hand took three years to heal - he was back playing the drums in November, 1974. Good thing!
Looking forward to reading the entire interview, Ian!
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 4, 2024 0:04:51 GMT -5
"August 1971 - Dennis said that he enjoyed recording with the BBs but criticized the Surf's Up album that had just been released. "With 'Riot' we really cracked up in the studio doing it...but Carl and I had a little disagreement...I have a belief in my music and if it sounds nothing like what it should on the album-it should have a flow to it, from one song to another. Well it didn't have a flow, it didn't sound like the Beach Boys. They thought it did. I said 'bull' and pulled my music off. Three or four songs...They're not on the album." When asked if it was a bad argument...he said 'Yeah as far as brothers go. But with Carl, when it was all over, we laughed together 10 minutes later. But I'll just feel more comfortable making my music on my own." Well, that confirms what went down when he pulled the songs off the Surf's Up album. Glad they ended up laughing about it. I don't think he lived to see those songs formally released, did he (other than a song or two that went on the "Carl & The Passions" album? He had the Rumbo single out with Daryl, was recording the "Poops" material with him, and was considering a solo career at that point. "Dennis also discussed his hand injury and stated that Riot was the last song he played drums on before his accident. "All the nerves were severed and I can't play drums anymore. I lost all the nerves in my thumb and first fingers. Those are the two fingers that I hold the drumstick with in my right hand. I have no strength or feeling there. I play 30 seconds before the stick slips out. They say it will take three years for the nerves to heal up." Dennis was right. His hand took three years to heal - he was back playing the drums in November, 1974. Good thing! Looking forward to reading the entire interview, Ian! I wish Dennis was still around; I would show him the film "Whiplash". And it sucks that he removed his songs from "Surf's Up", but thank God for box sets. |
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Post by jay on Apr 4, 2024 1:02:06 GMT -5
I think the one person who would really be able to give in depth detail about this time period would be Ed Roach.
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Post by Al S on Apr 4, 2024 1:24:53 GMT -5
Pretty cool, thanks for posting!!!
I was under the impression Dennis pulled his tracks after arguing with Carl about where on the LP they were sequenced, so to read he pulled his stuff because he didn’t think the songs added to the album’s flow or were BB suitable tracks is fascinating stuff!
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Post by bessieboporbach on Apr 4, 2024 5:35:26 GMT -5
Do we have it on any kind of authority what the "three or four songs" were?
Is it "Wouldn't It Be Nice..." and unspecified others, or is it definitely "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Sound of Free," and "Lady"? The latter two, I understand, had already been released when Surf's Up came out.
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Post by E on Apr 4, 2024 8:57:58 GMT -5
Fourth of July?
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Post by bessieboporbach on Apr 4, 2024 9:08:23 GMT -5
I thought the version of 4th that we have with the Carl vocal was just a demo? And that the bizarre version with a Jack Rieley vocal was a further development? |
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Post by WillJC on Apr 4, 2024 9:28:32 GMT -5
I thought the version of 4th that we have with the Carl vocal was just a demo? And that the bizarre version with a Jack Rieley vocal was a further development? No, Jack was earlier. Fourth of July was marked for the group and Carl's vocal wasn't a demo, though those lyrics were added without Dennis' involvement and he evidently wasn't satisfied with what they'd done when he heard it. Dennis' title for the song was 'Gone Are the Days'. |
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Post by Will/P.P. on Apr 4, 2024 9:35:24 GMT -5
Dennis had the "Barbara" demo. Also "Behold the Night" and the beginnings of "It's A New Day".
There is a listing of other tracks being worked on in 1971 - check the mid-late sessions at
bellagio10452.
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 4, 2024 9:35:49 GMT -5
Pretty sure this came after Carl’s vocal was wiped…
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 4, 2024 9:39:08 GMT -5
Apparently Dennis was trying to break into making music for commercials and met for some business meetings (not sure that anything came of this)... ”It’s a New Day” and (less verifiable) “Behold The Night” I believe were recorded for shampoo commercials. But you wouldn’t really ever be able to tell… |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 4, 2024 10:03:46 GMT -5
Do we have it on any kind of authority what the "three or four songs" were? Is it "Wouldn't It Be Nice..." and unspecified others, or is it definitely "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Sound of Free," and "Lady"? The latter two, I understand, had already been released when Surf's Up came out. Well, we know Lady was originally slated for Sunflower. It was part of the track listing of Add Some Music in March 1970. Whether it would have made it to Surf’s Up is anyone’s guess. Dennis did wind up using it as the B-side to his solo single. |
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Post by ian on Apr 4, 2024 13:48:02 GMT -5
It's clear that Dennis was in a funny place. He'd hurt his hand and his role in the BBs was in flux-the truth was that for the next three years he was kind of superfluous presence on stage-occasionally playing piano with his good hand and noodling around onstage-singing backgrounds and maybe taking a lead or two. But obviously he was the sex symbol of the group and added something undefinable that they could not really do without. He was also clearly wanting to break out of his constrained role in the group and get something going on the side. POB didn't happen till 1977 but Dennis clearly was hoping to release an LP much sooner. I think he was also becoming a bit alienated from the Mike/Al contingent, who were doubling down on TM and meditation, while he had already abandoned interest in it. Also-I think he was trying to maintain a second marriage-that was apparently already feeling some strain (on the Nov 1971 tour he made a drunken rambling monologue about his marriage problems at a show at CW Post). So...he was probably feeling that he should stay home, play the family man, and avoid temptations on the road.
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nocnoc
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Post by nocnoc on Apr 4, 2024 16:02:57 GMT -5
It’s driving me nuts trying to find the source, but I *know* I read somewhere that the “4th Of July” idea in general was Jack Rieley’s. That he thought it would make for a great theme for a song, but he couldn’t get Brian interested in writing music for it. Apparently he got Dennis interested enough to come up with something. But I very clearly remember it being an idea specifically to fit in on Surf’s Up. I’m thinking it was a newspaper article, but am I insane? Does anyone else ever remember reading something like this? *EDIT:* Found it. It’s on page 8 of this Rolling Stone article. Link: drive.google.com/file/d/1uTHb5wnLChT0C1jKZcLWTtylMtGVSwAb/view |
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chief
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Post by chief on Apr 4, 2024 21:45:46 GMT -5
With the huge caveat that I have no idea what was really going on…
It seems that Carl was reluctant to give Dennis so much influence. I can maybe guess a few reasons why, but musically, Dennis was the leading light of the group after Sunflower. They should have done what Dennis wanted to get his songs on the album.
But I also thought some of his problem was “Surf’s Up” being on the album at all. As much as I love “Surf’s Up”, it would have maybe been better to lead the way with the songs of a vital new writer, rather than showcase a great song from the past, but from a less than fully functional Brian.
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Post by lonelysummer on Apr 4, 2024 22:34:20 GMT -5
With the huge caveat that I have no idea what was really going on… It seems that Carl was reluctant to give Dennis so much influence. I can maybe guess a few reasons why, but musically, Dennis was the leading light of the group after Sunflower. A lot of people today will agree with this statement, but I feel that Carl was the leading light in the Surf's Up/Holland era. Maybe I was brainwashed early on by reading stuff like The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock and Roll. I had the original printing of that tome...it was HUGE! Tons of photos - all black and white, discographies..it was the first book of that sort I remember seeing. The chapter on the Beach Boys was pretty well written; in particular, I remember Carl being singled out as Brian's "heir apparent" for works like "Feel Flows" and "Trader". |
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Post by bessieboporbach on Apr 5, 2024 6:23:10 GMT -5
With the huge caveat that I have no idea what was really going on… It seems that Carl was reluctant to give Dennis so much influence. I can maybe guess a few reasons why, but musically, Dennis was the leading light of the group after Sunflower. They should have done what Dennis wanted to get his songs on the album. But I also thought some of his problem was “Surf’s Up” being on the album at all. As much as I love “Surf’s Up”, it would have maybe been better to lead the way with the songs of a vital new writer, rather than showcase a great song from the past, but from a less than fully functional Brian. Just because he was writing more songs than the others doesn't mean that he was the driving force creatively. I think part of the problem with the Surf's Up and Carl & the Passions period is that the band didn't really have a single driving force, or even a clear sense of purpose, creatively speaking. |
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Post by filledeplage on Apr 5, 2024 6:52:29 GMT -5
With the huge caveat that I have no idea what was really going on… It seems that Carl was reluctant to give Dennis so much influence. I can maybe guess a few reasons why, but musically, Dennis was the leading light of the group after Sunflower. They should have done what Dennis wanted to get his songs on the album. But I also thought some of his problem was “Surf’s Up” being on the album at all. As much as I love “Surf’s Up”, it would have maybe been better to lead the way with the songs of a vital new writer, rather than showcase a great song from the past, but from a less than fully functional Brian. Just because he was writing more songs than the others doesn't mean that he was the driving force creatively. I think part of the problem with the Surf's Up and Carl & the Passions period is that the band didn't really have a single driving force, or even a clear sense of purpose, creatively speaking. Or a "single" that the radios would play. (Fred Vail) Surfs Up was played on fm in college/university towns. And it charted despite the subversion of the radio station cartel. Yes, they are a cartel. |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Apr 5, 2024 8:01:19 GMT -5
With the huge caveat that I have no idea what was really going on… It seems that Carl was reluctant to give Dennis so much influence. I can maybe guess a few reasons why, but musically, Dennis was the leading light of the group after Sunflower. They should have done what Dennis wanted to get his songs on the album. But I also thought some of his problem was “Surf’s Up” being on the album at all. As much as I love “Surf’s Up”, it would have maybe been better to lead the way with the songs of a vital new writer, rather than showcase a great song from the past, but from a less than fully functional Brian. Remember too, Warner’s had the stipulation that Brian write the majority of the album songs. As is, Surf’s Up only had 40% Brian tunes. And I’m sure Carl was doing is best to get as many Brian songs on the album as possible. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 5, 2024 8:58:24 GMT -5
Stephen Desper held a (widely bootlegged) quad audio demonstration in April 1971 where he played different bits and incomplete pieces of “Ecology”, “Before”, and what sounds like a mostly complete “Barbra”. And then from “Bellagio”… March 15 - Dennis Wilson session - Old Movie (= 4th Of July)/Barnyard Blues [demos] May 23 - session: (Wouldn't It Be Nice To) Live Again June 20 - session: 4th Of July [vocals]/'Happy Birthday, Brian' July 7 - Dennis Wilson session: Behold the Night/It's A New Day [Sunset] July 8 - Dennis Wilson session; It's A New Day [Sunset] Then there is a “Fourth of July” session from before July 25 listed, presumably where the Carl vocal was wiped, and the guitars and backing vocals were put on. Also according to the “Sail On Sailor” sessionogrophy, the piano track for “Make It Good” along with the intro likely date from early 1971. We have almost a full album recorded already." Probably wasn’t that far off. It’s a real shame because I widely prefer most of the stuff Dennis made from 1969-72 to The stuff he made for “Pacific Ocean Blue”. |
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Post by #JusticeForDonGoldberg on Apr 5, 2024 9:08:36 GMT -5
Here is that Desper quad demonstration, running at a very wrong speed and with “Barbra” cut out, but to me it sounds the same as the one from “Endless Harmony”.
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Post by bessieboporbach on Apr 5, 2024 9:58:59 GMT -5
Just because he was writing more songs than the others doesn't mean that he was the driving force creatively. I think part of the problem with the Surf's Up and Carl & the Passions period is that the band didn't really have a single driving force, or even a clear sense of purpose, creatively speaking. Or a "single" that the radios would play. (Fred Vail) Surfs Up was played on fm in college/university towns. And it charted despite the subversion of the radio station cartel. Yes, they are a cartel. And yet Surf's Up (the album) was quite commercially successful -- almost mystifyingly so. I've never fully understood how it was that they managed to pull that off. While no doubt a lot of dedicated Beach Boys fans were curious about the title track, the vast majority of the US record-buying public would have had no awareness of the legend of Smile, and (unlike today) in the record-buying market of 1971, a group of dedicated, well-informed fans was not enough to make a record crack the top 30. As with 15 Big Ones a few years later, a LOT of casual record buyers bought Surf's Up. |
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