petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 26, 2024 21:12:41 GMT -5
Can anyone who has inside info tell me why the vocals only track of California Girls does not sync to either the backing track on STACK O TRACKS of the mono version of the song? It goes from syncing right up to being a second or two behind when the chorus starts. Are there numerous edits on the 8-Track master or the master mix down? I have wondered this since 1993 when I first tried to sync them. I got the idea just today to try it with the mono track. Heck, the mono track goes thru only the first verse in sync with the backing track and then falls behind. Makes me wonder if the backing track that was released was edited together and is not really the actual track used.
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brian65
Grommet
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Post by brian65 on Jan 26, 2024 21:29:00 GMT -5
I believe Al Jardine said they would slow the tape down a semi tone and record vocals? Makes sense as the 3-Track Backing would be in one key and transferred to 8-Track. The engineer at Columbia probably Bruce Botnick slowed down the tape a semi tone, so that it would be easier for the boys to sing to. I guess Brian has even said that he hated California Girls due to the Vocals being behind. So when Mark Linett went to make the first Stereo Mix in 2000 he had a Stereo Track in one key and a set of Vocals in a different key. Trying to match the speeds of the two tapes would have been an arduous task, which is why the 2000 Stereo Mix is bad. Remember how much trouble he had with the Pet Sounds Stereo Mix in 1996? Mark must have had better tools and he fixed it in 2002 for Sounds of Summer.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 26, 2024 21:55:30 GMT -5
Speed is only part of issue.
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west
Kahuna
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Post by west on Jan 26, 2024 22:32:08 GMT -5
Awhile back, I tried to sync the 'God Only Knows' stack-o-vocals with the mono backing track just for the heck of it, and the same issue occurred for me. I kept finding that I had to mess with the amount of dead air in between vocal lines (e.g., between 'If you should ever leave me' and 'though life would still go on believe me') just to make the two tracks sync up.
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Post by mikedonn on Jan 27, 2024 16:06:04 GMT -5
I believe Al Jardine said they would slow the tape down a semi tone and record vocals? Makes sense as the 3-Track Backing would be in one key and transferred to 8-Track. The engineer at Columbia probably Bruce Botnick slowed down the tape a semi tone, so that it would be easier for the boys to sing to. I guess Brian has even said that he hated California Girls due to the Vocals being behind. So when Mark Linett went to make the first Stereo Mix in 2000 he had a Stereo Track in one key and a set of Vocals in a different key. Trying to match the speeds of the two tapes would have been an arduous task, which is why the 2000 Stereo Mix is bad. Remember how much trouble he had with the Pet Sounds Stereo Mix in 1996? Mark must have had better tools and he fixed it in 2002 for Sounds of Summer. Mark didn't do the first stereo mix. Andrew Sandoval did I'm sure, in 1998. It was excellent. Mark then did his version. First attempt, the vocals were slightly out of sync so he had another go.
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jan 27, 2024 17:31:25 GMT -5
I believe Al Jardine said they would slow the tape down a semi tone and record vocals? Makes sense as the 3-Track Backing would be in one key and transferred to 8-Track. The engineer at Columbia probably Bruce Botnick slowed down the tape a semi tone, so that it would be easier for the boys to sing to. I guess Brian has even said that he hated California Girls due to the Vocals being behind. So when Mark Linett went to make the first Stereo Mix in 2000 he had a Stereo Track in one key and a set of Vocals in a different key. Trying to match the speeds of the two tapes would have been an arduous task, which is why the 2000 Stereo Mix is bad. Remember how much trouble he had with the Pet Sounds Stereo Mix in 1996? Mark must have had better tools and he fixed it in 2002 for Sounds of Summer. Mark didn't do the first stereo mix. Andrew Sandoval did I'm sure, in 1998. It was excellent. Mark then did his version. First attempt, the vocals were slightly out of sync so he had another go. You are correct. Sandovalโs stereo mix is very much reminiscent of the original mono single mix. Drums are more out front and there is more separation of the horn section. Background vocals are more prominent and up front like the single mix, as well.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 27, 2024 18:26:17 GMT -5
What is really strange is I took the backing track from the 1990 Stack O Tracks and the mono LP version from the 1993 GV Box and that did not sync. Then I took a backing track from youtube which I am guessing is SOT version, and it synced with the mono track from the box.
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jan 27, 2024 21:02:29 GMT -5
Can anyone who has inside info tell me why the vocals only track of California Girls does not sync to either the backing track on STACK O TRACKS of the mono version of the song? It goes from syncing right up to being a second or two behind when the chorus starts. Are there numerous edits on the 8-Track master or the master mix down? I have wondered this since 1993 when I first tried to sync them. I got the idea just today to try it with the mono track. Heck, the mono track goes thru only the first verse in sync with the backing track and then falls behind. Makes me wonder if the backing track that was released was edited together and is not really the actual track used. These sources are all from different transfers, so they would never sync up. The vocals track is a transfer from one of the SDSN 8-track comp reels, the backing track was transferred from the 3-track. And then of course the mono master is an 8-1 reduction from the 8-track to a different tape. No matter how perfectly maintained and dialed in a tape machine is, it'll never play exactly the same every time. And taking into account that for something like the 3-1 transfer from the three-track instrumental to the 8-track for vocal overdubs, or the mono master mix, it's a tape to tape reduction, so there is another generation of tape in there to further create some variation. It's not like the digital world where any copies or bounces will sync perfectly. The second thing at play here is that the Beach Boys were just plain old not singing with good time on this one. The stereo mix that "fixes" that is actually retconning the Beach Boys to have better rhythm than they had that day.
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Post by Joshilyn Hoisington on Jan 27, 2024 21:06:12 GMT -5
What is really strange is I took the backing track from the 1990 Stack O Tracks and the mono LP version from the 1993 GV Box and that did not sync. Then I took a backing track from youtube which I am guessing is SOT version, and it synced with the mono track from the box. Again, stack-o-tracks is from the 3-track, so it would not sync with the 8-track perfectly. If the backing track from youtube is Mark's mix, he worked very hard to manually sync stuff to the mono.
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 28, 2024 2:06:01 GMT -5
I think the youtube one is from the SOT set. Maybe we need a mono mix from the 8-Track master (meaning Brian's mono mix that he sped up when mixing the three track onto one track of the 8-Track).
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 28, 2024 16:16:02 GMT -5
Can anyone who has inside info tell me why the vocals only track of California Girls does not sync to either the backing track on STACK O TRACKS of the mono version of the song? It goes from syncing right up to being a second or two behind when the chorus starts. Are there numerous edits on the 8-Track master or the master mix down? I have wondered this since 1993 when I first tried to sync them. I got the idea just today to try it with the mono track. Heck, the mono track goes thru only the first verse in sync with the backing track and then falls behind. Makes me wonder if the backing track that was released was edited together and is not really the actual track used. These sources are all from different transfers, so they would never sync up. The vocals track is a transfer from one of the SDSN 8-track comp reels, the backing track was transferred from the 3-track. And then of course the mono master is an 8-1 reduction from the 8-track to a different tape. No matter how perfectly maintained and dialed in a tape machine is, it'll never play exactly the same every time. And taking into account that for something like the 3-1 transfer from the three-track instrumental to the 8-track for vocal overdubs, or the mono master mix, it's a tape to tape reduction, so there is another generation of tape in there to further create some variation. It's not like the digital world where any copies or bounces will sync perfectly. The second thing at play here is that the Beach Boys were just plain old not singing with good time on this one. The stereo mix that "fixes" that is actually retconning the Beach Boys to have better rhythm than they had that day. Hey Joshlyn, long time, no see. Welcome back!
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Post by debonbon on Jan 28, 2024 18:16:15 GMT -5
The joys of analogue tapeโฆ
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Post by Steve Mayo on Jan 28, 2024 18:45:56 GMT -5
๐ฎโโ๏ธ ๐ฎโโ๏ธ ๐ฎ
Analog
๐๐๐
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Post by debonbon on Jan 28, 2024 23:53:39 GMT -5
๐ฎโโ๏ธ ๐ฎโโ๏ธ ๐ฎ Analog ๐๐๐ Analogue is the UK spelling and Iโm from Aus so..
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