bookofb
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Post by bookofb on Jan 18, 2024 11:47:26 GMT -5
So what happened with the follow-up single to "I Get Around?"
It looks (sounds) like "Little Honda" was the natural follow-up; even that it was purposefully written by Brian and Mike to be a single. Brian went with "When I Grow Up (To Be a Man)". I have my own ideas as to why Brian decided to do this (basically he wanted to pull the BBs away from the fad-model is my assumption) but they're just theories. Is there any more definitive evidence as to what was going on here? As far as I know none of the Beach Boys have ever commented on this, and most if not all of the typical sources gloss over this period.
I'm aware of the Hondells and their success with the song, and Capitol's belated effort to put the original BB version on the charts with 4 By the Beach Boys. I think the implication is that at the time, back in '64, there was some frustration within Capitol (and elsewhere?) about Brian's choice of single. My assumption is that a timely-released Beach Boys "Little Honda" single would have done very well commercially, certainly better than "When I Grow Up (To Be a Man)" which got to No. 9.
Anybody have any thoughts or info? Thanks
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Departed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2024 12:21:08 GMT -5
Little Honda and When I Grew Up were released very close to each other and had just about the same chart life and success. In order to record the song, Usher would have had to applied for the compulsory license from Sea of Tunes in advance. Brian knew The Hondells single was coming, I think he didn't want Capitol and Mercury competing with each other on the same song. I'm sure Brian and Murry (Sea of Tunes) would have rather have had two potentially successful singles in the Hot 100 than seeing Capitol wage a chart battle over a new release and its cover version. Just a thought.
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Post by AGD on Jan 18, 2024 14:48:14 GMT -5
I've read, and this I believe, that Brian was all set to go with "Honda" as the next single until someone walking down the corridor outside the studio stuck their head in, asked what they were hearing and when Brian told them it was the next Beach Boys single, said words to the effect of "don't like it"... and that killed it for Brian on the spot.
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Post by Mikie on Jan 18, 2024 15:13:53 GMT -5
And then "Little Honda" ended up here:   |
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Post by Emdeeh on Jan 18, 2024 16:19:51 GMT -5
And The Hondells had the hit instead...
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bookofb
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Post by bookofb on Jan 18, 2024 16:23:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies; the whole thing is a little weird to me, that's all - perhaps it's the belated 4 By the Beach Boys which was/is something of a red flag from a historical perspective, because, with respect to singles and marketing, Capitol/Beach Boys were working very well it seems; ever since the failure of "Ten Little Indians" the organization seems to have righted the ship and figured out when and how to release good singles in a timely manner, all the way up through the great success of "I Get Around." Then a hard and abrupt turn with "When I Grow Up" (which, as artful, interesting and historically significant as it is, is just a weird single) and Capitol's awkward attempt to get the Beach Boys' original "Little Honda" on the charts after the Hondells already had a big head start.
(I'm also wondering about those promotional photos of the Beach Boys on Honda scooters - presumably a Capitol photo shoot. Does anybody know the approx. date those were taken? My main question is whether those were taken to promote the late-period 4 By the Beach Boys release of "Little Honda" or whether the photos were taken at an earlier date, when, perhaps, "Little Honda" was originally slated for a single release, before Brian switched things up)
To me, the whole thing smacks of Brian, after the success of "I Get Around," throwing his weight around and trying to steer the whole Beach Boys concept away from fads. Around the time of mid-64 and the All Summer Long album, Brian had reconnected with Gary Usher (at least temporarily); is it possible he said to Usher, "we've got this song about Honda bikes - do you want it?" And that Usher named and formed the Hondells only after getting the song from Brian? I think Murry would have, at best, been conflicted about this turn of events - happy, presumably, at the success of the Hondells on a Sea of Tunes song (unlike what happened on "Surf City") but upset because he despised Usher and resented his relationship with Brian.
With respect to the idea that Brian was convinced to scrap "Little Honda" by the comment of a passerby, okay. Not inconsistent with Brian's personality. Question, though: would Brian have scrapped "I Get Around" as a single if some random person had said they didn't like it? I think the answer is: yes, he would but only if he already had doubts about the song. And does this mean that nobody said anything negative to him about "When I Grow Up (To Be a Man)?" I can at least imagine a lot of people sratching their heads upon hearing that track back in the middle of 1964, although perhaps not voicing their concerns, because in these days, Brian had the golden touch - the presumption was that he understood the teenage mind and knew what he was doing. Until, that is, he puts out "When I Grow Up" as the single instead of "Little Honda." Again - it looks as if, with 4 By the Beach Boys, Capitol is saying "no, Brian was wrong. 'Little Honda" should have been the single instead." (which is probably true, from the commercial perspective of teenage music in 1964)
Also, this era - fall 1964 - is when Capitol put out Teen Set, with Earl Leaf's text selling the teenage and fad-aspect of the Beach Boys very hard; at one point in one of Leaf's pieces he basically tells Teen Set readers not to worry, because the Beach Boys are not going to grow up, and that they are always going to do fad music. This, in the days of "When I Grow Up," the Hondells, and 4 By the Beach Boys, etc. Overall, I sense some latent behind-the-scenes tension between Brian and the Capitol/Beach Boys organization during this era (second half of 1964)
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Post by leedempsey on Jan 20, 2024 0:04:08 GMT -5
Also to add to this thread, a single version of “Little Honda” was apparently prepared, with an additional somewhat crude organ overdub. I had heard it played from a Capitol acetate many years back, and the owner didn’t even realize that it was an unreleased, undocumented mix. Alan Boyd subsequently found the master for it on one of Capitol’s archival “phono reels”, where they stored the masters of released singles — but in this case, it was never released. That would indicate to me that it was very close to release. That version did appear, however, on the Keep an Eye on Summer 1964 digital copyright drop.
Lee
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bookofb
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Post by bookofb on Jan 20, 2024 13:54:24 GMT -5
Also to add to this thread, a single version of “Little Honda” was apparently prepared, with an additional somewhat crude organ overdub. I had heard it played from a Capitol acetate many years back, and the owner didn’t even realize that it was an unreleased, undocumented mix. Alan Boyd subsequently found the master for it on one of Capitol’s archival “phono reels”, where they stored the masters of released singles — but in this case, it was never released. That would indicate to me that it was very close to release. That version did appear, however, on the Keep an Eye on Summer 1964 digital copyright drop. Lee Interesting, thanks
Do we know what mix was used for the 4 By the Beach Boys single? The same as what was on the All Summer Long album?
I think Little Honda is a great record, but at the same time, it's kind of embarrassing - it's an advertisement for Honda. Question: does anybody know if the Beach Boys made a deal with Honda, or were they so naive as to write this without any kind of compensation? Does anybody know if Mercury/Usher/Hondells had a deal with Honda? It just seems outrageous to sell another company's wares like this without getting a kick-back
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sloopjohnb
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Post by sloopjohnb on Jan 20, 2024 15:59:58 GMT -5
Brian wrote (or at least recorded) Little Honda as a commission for Gary Usher, as Gary was scoring the Girls On The Beach movie and arranged to have the Beach Boys feature in it. So he was already close to the song, although he wasn't offered to co-write it. When Brian decided to pull the single last minute, Gary asked if he could release it himself, which is what he did. Brian's friends and fellow LA producers were great at finding quality Beach Boys album tracks to put out with Brian's blessing, and sometimes help (Gary Usher with No-Go Showboat and Little Honda, Jan Berry with Catch A Wave, Dean Torrence with Vegetables, and Terry Melcher with Custom Machine, Hawaii, and probably others I'm not remembering).
Brian was obviously dissatisfied with Little Honda, but he did try a few things to make it work, first by re-recording the vocals completely (as heard on the twofer), and then by adding that organ that Lee mentioned to the original vocal (as heard on the 2014 release). This was all after the All Summer Long album was completed. Another phono reel in the Capitol vault reveals that Brian also tried to submit Wendy b/w She Knows Me Too Well as a single in July, but pulled THAT last-minute as well. Maybe another friend said something negative about it. There were also serious attempts to release Johnny B. Goode from the concert album, and at one point, a live-in-studio version of Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow that has never been released. But nothing happened on the single front until When I Grow Up. Maybe "Four" was a compromise.
Little Honda is probably the more commercial song, but to me, When I Grow Up is the best of the bunch, and definitely points in the direction that Brian would go with his writing for the next year and a half.
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sloopjohnb
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Post by sloopjohnb on Jan 20, 2024 16:02:55 GMT -5
To answer the other question, "Four" includes the same mixes as featured on the ASL album, rather than the unique versions that were prepared as singles.
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Post by leedempsey on Jan 20, 2024 22:01:03 GMT -5
Another phono reel in the Capitol vault reveals that Brian also tried to submit Wendy b/w She Knows Me Too Well as a single in July, but pulled THAT last-minute as well. Interestingly, “Wendy” b/w “She Knows Me Too Well” was released in Canada as a single, and was assigned Capitol catalogue number 5245 — the same number as “When I Grow Up” b/w “She Knows Me Too Well” in the U.S. Later, when “When I Grow Up” was released in Canada, it had to be assigned an out-of-sequence catalogue number, Capitol 72182, and the flip side was… “Little Honda”…. Lee |
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 20, 2024 22:56:57 GMT -5
Let's go around the world:
Germany:
Greece:
Norway:
Sweden:
Japan:
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Post by lonelysummer on Jan 20, 2024 23:32:06 GMT -5
I have "4 By the Beach Boys" minus the picture sleeve. Yup, all the same versions you've heard before. And I don't quite get the fuss about "When I Grow Up (to be a man)". It's a great record, it was a hit, end of story.
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Post by Mikie on Jan 21, 2024 0:13:08 GMT -5
I have "4 By the Beach Boys" minus the picture sleeve. Yup, all the same versions you've heard before. And I don't quite get the fuss about "When I Grow Up (to be a man)". It's a great record, it was a hit, end of story. Agreed, I was never a big fan of WIGU. |
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Post by Mikie on Jan 21, 2024 0:21:06 GMT -5
Years ago I remember listening to the “Honda 55”acapella harmony tag over and over. The vocal rehearsal was recorded on August 31, 1964 at Western during the sweetening session for “In Concert”. Assuming it was for a radio commercial? I guess they were promoting Honda 50 and 55 motorbikes at the time (see the inner sleeve of the "In Concert" album). I can only find the end result on Youtube, but you can find the whole thing on The Beach Boys Live In Sacramento, 1964 Second Show Sea Of Tunes C 9702. Surprised it wasn’t included on the “Keep An Eye On Summer ’64 Sessions” comp.   |
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Post by drbeachboy (Dirk) on Jan 22, 2024 9:38:54 GMT -5
When I Grow Up is one of my Top 5 favorite Beach Boys songs. Little Honda is ok, but pretty standard fare.
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Post by jk on Jan 22, 2024 10:05:03 GMT -5
When I Grow Up is one of my Top 5 favorite Beach Boys songs. Little Honda is ok, but pretty standard fare. Not Top 5 for me but certainly Top 20. I remember watching them fluff those tricky opening a cappella chords on UK TV at the time! "WIGU" presents a sonic world that was unique then and still is. Joshilyn isolates the harpsichord and bass in this tutorial: |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jan 22, 2024 10:40:06 GMT -5
Having re-listened to the 'Little Honda' single mix on 'Keep An Eye On Summer', I'm glad they never used it.
It's organ overdub is very clunky and doesn't fit at all.
Even the playing is out of time in places which really makes me suspect this must be an error of some sort.
It was best this version laid dormant and forgotten.
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