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Post by karmafrog on Jan 5, 2024 13:01:49 GMT -5
Hi everyone, pleased to share Episode 18 of PET SQUARES: A GEEK'S GUIDE TO THE BEACH BOYS. I think this is one of the best shows so far, covering side two of BEACH BOYS PARTY and a *very* deep dive into both "Barbara Ann" and the concurrent single "The Little Girl I Once Knew," including a breakdown of song vocal areas and the intro. Enjoy and share!
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Post by AGD on Jan 5, 2024 13:11:20 GMT -5
A "deep dive" into that song... Oh! The joy!
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Post by karmafrog on Jan 5, 2024 13:32:23 GMT -5
It's fun though. Mark A. Moore helped out to get the most accurate story possible of Dean's involvement. Also we talk about Bruce's and Dennis' differing opinions of Dean's performance.
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Post by nts1drums on Jan 5, 2024 15:51:21 GMT -5
I love the little breakdown of the possibility of Dennis being on TLGIOK! That was a fun segment and I loved the Barbara Ann story as well. This was a great video!
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Post by karmafrog on Jan 5, 2024 23:09:36 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm going to try to do more of those kinds of things when I get to PET SOUNDS. I also think it's fun to explore some of the ambiguities in the music. We all like a good mystery.
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Post by AGD on Jan 6, 2024 5:20:04 GMT -5
Just listened to "TLGIOK" for the first time in, oh, longer than that... and I agree with Adam: it's in with a very strong shout for being their greatest single. It is, simply, magnificent in every aspect.
And... the alleged reaction of the radio guys was actually hugely insulting to their listeners. The "dead air" is just under four seconds (yes, I timed it: 3.54). At worst, the kids would have just started reaching for the dial when the vocals dropped back in, and second time around they'd know what was coming. I'm no conspiracy theorist (despise them, in fact) but I'm thinking there's more to this: surely Capitol test marketed the single before release. Here's a thing, might be coincidence: on December 18th, the song was at #26, with previous weeks at 69-42-32, a nice, steady rise albeit not as spectacular as that of, say, "California Girls" somewhat earlier. But, on the same day, The Beatles "We Can Work It Out" debuted at #36, and three weeks later was #1, where it stayed for three weeks, with the BB dropping 14 places for the peak of #20 on the same day. Jus' sayin'...
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Post by karmafrog on Jan 6, 2024 5:27:08 GMT -5
Just listened to "TLGIOK" for the first time in, oh, longer than that... and I agree with Adam: it's in with a very strong shout for being their greatest single. It is, simply, magnificent in every aspect. And... the alleged reaction of the radio guys was actually hugely insulting to their listeners. The "dead air" is just under four seconds (yes, I timed it: 3.54). At worst, the kids would have just started reaching for the dial when the vocals dropped back in, and second time around they'd know what was coming. I'm no conspiracy theorist (despise them, in fact) but I'm thinking there's more to this: surely Capitol test marketed the single before release. Here's a thing, might be coincidence: on December 18th, the song was at #26, with previous weeks at 69-42-32, a nice, steady rise albeit not as spectacular as that of, say, "California Girls" somewhat earlier. But, on the same day, The Beatles "We Can Work It Out" debuted at #36, and three weeks later was #1, where it stayed for three weeks, with the BB dropping 14 places for the peak of #20 on the same day. Jus' sayin'... I think you might be on to something. I was going through those same charts and was very surprised to see "Barbara Ann" debuting on the week TLGIOK peaked, which means Capitol had to have released it while the single was still climbing...it had gone from 32 to 26 (just as you say) and then to 21, and it must have been out by then at latest. So there's reason to think the song might have climbed higher if Capitol hadn't stomped on it with "Barbara Ann." Though a commenter pointed out to me that the band played BA on their Jack Benny appearance in October, so they may have been hedging their bets (though it's a vastly easier song to perform, of course). I was doing some research for the PET SOUNDS ep and was shocked to see that "Wouldn't It Be Nice" didn't come out as a single until July, two months after the album dropped, and after PET SOUNDS had been supplanted by BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS. Just looking at the timeline, there's a very strong case to be made that Capitol itself made PET SOUNDS' relative commercial failure a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think Capitol was probably right in its commercial instincts but it seems with their pattern of releases against the band's wishes, they were making *sure* they would be right. THE LITTLE GIRL I ONCE KNEW probably would have climbed higher if "Barbara Ann" was delayed a few weeks, and PET SOUNDS probably would have gone higher if they'd released WIBN earlier, and the BEST OF later. (They also shot themselves in the foot because the "Best Of" really could have been helpful to release during the long wait for SMILE)
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Post by AGD on Jan 6, 2024 6:47:19 GMT -5
Adam, when you get around to doing Pet Sounds, I know you'll set straight the old canard "Sloop John B was on the album at the insistence of Capitol as it was the current hit single" route. Because neither of those claims are true.
"B-f-A" was released December 20th 1965, at which point "TLGIOK" was at #26 up from #32.
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Post by Al S on Jan 6, 2024 7:11:09 GMT -5
I dunno. While the production is schmick!+, and the song aspires to be quite groovy, it's also a bit on the thin side - like Dance, Dance, Dance the big promisees birthed in the great riffs don't pan out, meaning things don't quite move into the next level, imo.
And the la-doo-day stuff is a bit lame.
I'll get my coat, ticket 4!
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Post by jk on Jan 6, 2024 7:41:30 GMT -5
I dunno. While the production is schmick!+, and the song aspires to be quite groovy, it's also a bit on the thin side - like Dance, Dance, Dance the big promisees birthed in the great riffs don't pan out, meaning things don't quite move into the next level, imo. And the la-doo-day stuff is a bit lame.I'll get my coat, ticket 4! Oh I like that stuff. It's a tribute to Chuck B's "Almost Grown".
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Post by jk on Jan 6, 2024 8:55:42 GMT -5
Just listened to "TLGIOK" for the first time in, oh, longer than that... and I agree with Adam: it's in with a very strong shout for being their greatest single. It is, simply, magnificent in every aspect. And... the alleged reaction of the radio guys was actually hugely insulting to their listeners. The "dead air" is just under four seconds (yes, I timed it: 3.54). At worst, the kids would have just started reaching for the dial when the vocals dropped back in, and second time around they'd know what was coming. I'm no conspiracy theorist (despise them, in fact) but I'm thinking there's more to this: surely Capitol test marketed the single before release. Here's a thing, might be coincidence: on December 18th, the song was at #26, with previous weeks at 69-42-32, a nice, steady rise albeit not as spectacular as that of, say, "California Girls" somewhat earlier. But, on the same day, The Beatles "We Can Work It Out" debuted at #36, and three weeks later was #1, where it stayed for three weeks, with the BB dropping 14 places for the peak of #20 on the same day. Jus' sayin'... Dead air certainly belongs in inverted commas, since there's a vibraphone note admittedly decaying the way vibraphone notes do but still highly audible throughout those few seconds on both occasions. Curious to see what Adam has to say on the subject...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2024 10:14:34 GMT -5
And the la-doo-day stuff is a bit lame. It's from Bobby Rydell (Wildwood Days), by way of Chuck Berry, courtesy of the writers who were the best thieves in the business, Kal Mann & Dave Appell. I've done a lot of research into TLGIOK. It's an important, pivotal, recording.
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Post by jk on Jan 6, 2024 11:03:47 GMT -5
And the la-doo-day stuff is a bit lame. It's from Bobby Rydell (Wildwood Days), by way of Chuck Berry, courtesy of the writers who were the best thieves in the business, Kal Mann & Dave Appell. I've done a lot of research into TLGIOK. It's an important, pivotal, recording. See the songs-sounds-sources thread in the non-BB section for more from SB on the subject of Mr Rydell and the influence his songs had on Brian's compositions.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 6, 2024 12:40:11 GMT -5
Hi everyone, pleased to share Episode 18 of PET SQUARES: A GEEK'S GUIDE TO THE BEACH BOYS. I think this is one of the best shows so far, covering side two of BEACH BOYS PARTY and a *very* deep dive into both "Barbara Ann" and the concurrent single "The Little Girl I Once Knew," including a breakdown of song vocal areas and the intro. Enjoy and share! Thanks for the deep dive. TLGIOK was my own line of demarcation into BB fandom. It was the line of separation from all the other bands into this sphere. It took 45 years until C50 to hear it live at a sound check for C50 (although it was not in the setlist) and it was delightful to hear Brian use it on his solo album. Thanks for the backstory. Somehow I got my hands on a single, in the photo sleeve, but didn't have my own copy of the track until that Vol. 3 GH compilation. And don't agree with Mr. Johnston's characterization (albeit with his industry background) of the pause. He calls it "dead air" but I think of it as the place where you "hold your breath!" It is a great song. It should have been on Summer Days. Thanks again for your very interesting analysis. 🎈 Great comparison to Gary Lewis' Just My Style.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2024 13:20:55 GMT -5
I loved She's Just My Style when it came out. But, as a production, it doesn't come close to what Brian did with TLGIOK. It's Leon Russell flexing on what he learned from Brian during the Summer Days session; it's a pastiche. Just My Style is very straight forward: Intro, Verse, Prechorus, Chorus, Solo, ending with Chorus variation fade. TLGIOK is way more involved than that, structurally and harmonically.
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Post by AGD on Jan 6, 2024 13:31:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the deep dive. TLGIOK was my own line of demarcation into BB fandom. It was the line of separation from all the other bands into this sphere. It took 45 years until C50 to hear it live at a sound check for C50 (although it was not in the setlist) and it was delightful to hear Brian use it on his solo album. Thanks for the backstory. Somehow I got my hands on a single, in the photo sleeve, but didn't have my own copy of the track until that Vol. 3 GH compilation. And don't agree with Mr. Johnston's characterization (albeit with his industry background) of the pause. He calls it "dead air" but I think of it as the place where you "hold your breath!" It is a great song. It should have been on Summer Days. Thanks again for your very interesting analysis. 🎈 Great comparison to Gary Lewis' Just My Style. Given it was recorded over three months after said album was released... bit tricky.
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Post by filledeplage on Jan 6, 2024 13:35:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the deep dive. TLGIOK was my own line of demarcation into BB fandom. It was the line of separation from all the other bands into this sphere. It took 45 years until C50 to hear it live at a sound check for C50 (although it was not in the setlist) and it was delightful to hear Brian use it on his solo album. Thanks for the backstory. Somehow I got my hands on a single, in the photo sleeve, but didn't have my own copy of the track until that Vol. 3 GH compilation. And don't agree with Mr. Johnston's characterization (albeit with his industry background) of the pause. He calls it "dead air" but I think of it as the place where you "hold your breath!" It is a great song. It should have been on Summer Days. Thanks again for your very interesting analysis. 🎈 Great comparison to Gary Lewis' Just My Style. Given it was recorded over three months after said album was released... bit tricky. Yes, and I wondered at various artists doing the same thing at pretty much the same time unless there were common musicians (maybe session) talking about whatever technique it was. You are 100% correct on the timing but where would you put it? It wouldn't fit Party - and it wouldn't fit Pet Sounds either. But it is kind of an orphan in the grand scheme of things. But great to hear it discussed. It's a great song in my book. Wasn't there some trend emerging not to put singles on LPs? Maybe Beatles?
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Post by karmafrog on Jan 6, 2024 14:16:17 GMT -5
Just listened to "TLGIOK" for the first time in, oh, longer than that... and I agree with Adam: it's in with a very strong shout for being their greatest single. It is, simply, magnificent in every aspect. And... the alleged reaction of the radio guys was actually hugely insulting to their listeners. The "dead air" is just under four seconds (yes, I timed it: 3.54). At worst, the kids would have just started reaching for the dial when the vocals dropped back in, and second time around they'd know what was coming. I'm no conspiracy theorist (despise them, in fact) but I'm thinking there's more to this: surely Capitol test marketed the single before release. Here's a thing, might be coincidence: on December 18th, the song was at #26, with previous weeks at 69-42-32, a nice, steady rise albeit not as spectacular as that of, say, "California Girls" somewhat earlier. But, on the same day, The Beatles "We Can Work It Out" debuted at #36, and three weeks later was #1, where it stayed for three weeks, with the BB dropping 14 places for the peak of #20 on the same day. Jus' sayin'... Dead air certainly belongs in inverted commas, since there's a vibraphone note admittedly decaying the way vibraphone notes do but still highly audible throughout those few seconds on both occasions. Curious to see what Adam has to say on the subject... There's certainly a vibraphone! Not sure that would have assuaged DJs' concerns, but when you're right you're right.
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Post by Autotune on Jan 6, 2024 15:31:29 GMT -5
Fantastic episode! Thanks
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Post by Al S on Jan 6, 2024 16:29:43 GMT -5
And the la-doo-day stuff is a bit lame. It's from Bobby Rydell (Wildwood Days), by way of Chuck Berry, courtesy of the writers who were the best thieves in the business, Kal Mann & Dave Appell. I've done a lot of research into TLGIOK. It's an important, pivotal, recording. I know where it comes from! Glad you like it, but not quite my cup of tea!
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Post by jk on Jan 6, 2024 17:52:10 GMT -5
Great episode there, Adam. I'm not a fan of Party!, although it should be common knowledge by now that the 45 of "Barbara Ann" is one of my all-time favourite BB songs and high on my list of singles by anyone. So thank you for the deep dive into this and the awesome "TLGIOK" (which has my favourite Party! track on the flip). I've never understood the problem with the stops in "TLGIOK". How about The Yardbirds' "For Your Love"? This stops and changes tempo twice and you never heard raised voices about that! Good luck with, well, the next album! I really feel it should be divided into at least four episodes, out of respect if nothing else. That said, if anyone can carry this off, it's you.
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Post by jk on Jan 6, 2024 18:08:00 GMT -5
For completeness' sake, here are the two sonically similar "Beach Boys tributy" records Adam mentions (at 59:10) that came out around the same time as "TLGIOK", namely The Modern Folk Quartet's "This Could Be The Night"…
...and Gary Lewis & the Playboys' "She's Just My Style":
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2024 18:23:17 GMT -5
This Could Be The Night entered Brian's head before he recorded TLGIOK. He immediately put the influence it had on him to work.
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jan 7, 2024 6:34:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the great video! I strongly dislike "Barbara Ann” but “The Little Girl I Once Knew" is one of my favorite Beach Boys songs, so it's great to have a bit of both in there.
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Post by E on Jan 7, 2024 9:19:08 GMT -5
Terrific (as usual), Adam. Thanks for posting.
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