petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 6, 2024 4:05:18 GMT -5
Wow, nutty stuff!!! Great info, thanks as always for sharing!!! Ok, I am going to do the following this weekend. I am going to check the past masters SURFER GIRL in stereo from Japan that uses a 1987 DUB of the US master and is a flat transfer. I will then compare it with the 1991 CAPITOL YEARS CD boxset from Japan that was mastered from a sub-master assembled in the UK in 1980 from their master tapes. I don't know if they received a new transfer of SURFER GIRL after the 1967 remaster, but I don't think they did. I will then compare the two. Hopefully there is a difference.
When a big chunk fell out of the stereo SURFER GIRL song in 1967, Western remixed it from the three-track and inserted it back in to the stereo master reel. It sounds identical to the original, even better; less compression.Welp, looks like Hoffman was right. The version on the CAPITOL YEARS box from the UK master has more compression and slightly more reverb than the Past Masters version. The waveform shows the compression. I don't think that happened when the guys at WORLD RECORDS compiled the masters. So for the CD WORLD RECORDS set Japan either used the UK sub-masters or compiled their own (which I doubt as so many duophonics were used as on the UK original). But either way, the original stereo SURFER GIRL seems to be on the CAPITOL YEARS box. |
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Post by Al S on Jan 6, 2024 4:06:46 GMT -5
Wow, nutty stuff!!! Great info, thanks as always for sharing!!! Ok, I am going to do the following this weekend. I am going to check the past masters SURFER GIRL in stereo from Japan that uses a 1987 DUB of the US master and is a flat transfer. I will then compare it with the 1991 CAPITOL YEARS CD boxset from Japan that was mastered from a sub-master assembled in the UK in 1980 from their master tapes. I don't know if they received a new transfer of SURFER GIRL after the 1967 remaster, but I don't think they did. I will then compare the two. Hopefully there is a difference. Great plan!!! Maybe even A/B against a US OG vinyl. However you approach it, make sure you let a relative or friend know what you are up to - just in case no-one has seen you by Monday morning! |
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Post by Vale on Jan 6, 2024 12:45:57 GMT -5
According to Steve Hoffman, in a post from 2006, he stated the following: Heck, Chuck remixed SURFER GIRL in 1967 both mono and stereo (old tape was worn out). No one even noticed the remix. This is probably the first time it's ever even been mentioned in print. Wha... WhA... WHAT? Is this so? So that would mean, there is no original release of 'Surfer Girl' in Mono or Stereo that's been put to CD/Digital? Everything release since 67' has used the new remixes? That's kind of insane to think about. Leaving the only original sources on the original pressings, which were not great quality pressings to begin with. Is that correct? Anybody up for a needledrop comparison to spot variations? These are the kind of stories I love. |
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Post by Rick Bartlett on Jan 6, 2024 13:31:25 GMT -5
Wha... WhA... WHAT? Is this so? So that would mean, there is no original release of 'Surfer Girl' in Mono or Stereo that's been put to CD/Digital? Everything release since 67' has used the new remixes? That's kind of insane to think about. Leaving the only original sources on the original pressings, which were not great quality pressings to begin with. Is that correct? Anybody up for a needledrop comparison to spot variations? These are the kind of stories I love. Same! In all the years and still finding little bits of info like this out, makes everything worthwhile. This sort of thing is huge! to me. So many more questions.... How did they mess up the OG 'Surfer Girl' tape track in such a short time frame? It's only 4 years...?.... When used properly, tape is a very rugged and reliable format, unless someone got careless... I'm puzzled. |
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petsite
Author/Historian/ Researcher
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Post by petsite on Jan 6, 2024 14:35:16 GMT -5
Happens all of the time. Here is the master tape for EMI-ABBEY ROAD's copy of HELP by THE BEATLES. The last track on side 2, DIZZY MISS LIZZY looks to have been screwed up while they were making a copy for Yugoslavia. It was replaced by a copy off of the safety (in essence, that track is now a copy of a copy) an placed on the master. The red arrows are mine.
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Post by gigantiskpyjamas on Jan 6, 2024 14:49:46 GMT -5
Ok, I am going to do the following this weekend. I am going to check the past masters SURFER GIRL in stereo from Japan that uses a 1987 DUB of the US master and is a flat transfer. I will then compare it with the 1991 CAPITOL YEARS CD boxset from Japan that was mastered from a sub-master assembled in the UK in 1980 from their master tapes. I don't know if they received a new transfer of SURFER GIRL after the 1967 remaster, but I don't think they did. I will then compare the two. Hopefully there is a difference.
When a big chunk fell out of the stereo SURFER GIRL song in 1967, Western remixed it from the three-track and inserted it back in to the stereo master reel. It sounds identical to the original, even better; less compression.Welp, looks like Hoffman was right. The version on the CAPITOL YEARS box from the UK master has more compression and slightly more reverb than the Past Masters version. The waveform shows the compression. I don't think that happened when the guys at WORLD RECORDS compiled the masters. So for the CD WORLD RECORDS set Japan either used the UK sub-masters or compiled their own (which I doubt as so many duophonics were used as on the UK original). But either way, the original stereo SURFER GIRL seems to be on the CAPITOL YEARS box. So Surfer Girl was given a new stereo mix by CB in May 1967? Surfer Girl appeared in stereo for the first time in the UK in March 1967, right? And prior to that it had only appeared in mono on an EP in October 1963? Or were there other releases? Just want to make sure I get this right! |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 6, 2024 15:19:31 GMT -5
Yep. I think that the UK got the original stereo mix of SURFER GIRL. That is the version I think is on the WORLD RECORDS box and the Japanese CD set.
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brian65
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Post by brian65 on Jan 6, 2024 18:36:22 GMT -5
So the original 1963 Mono LP of Surfer Girl has Brian's Mono Mix and I suppose the Mix had to have been copied for the Single Reel too. Or did Brian not Mix the Mono? Could the Single Mix be different as well? I mean they could just copy the Single Reel version when they do a new Mono Surfer Girl release on CD or Vinyl?
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 6, 2024 18:43:34 GMT -5
Ok, here are the wav forms for 5 different rips of SURFER GIRL. They are from the following releases:
SURFER GIRL CD - MFSL flat transfer of the 1967 remix. SURFER GIRL CD - PAST MASTERS flat transfer of the 1967 remix. ENDLESS SUMMER CD - 1987 pretty flat transfer of the 1967 remix. THE CAPITOL YEARS BOX SET (Japan) - Flat transfer of the UK compiled masters for release. I THINK that they used the earlier mix of SURFER GIRL from 1963. It just sounds different.
THE CAPITOL YEARS BOX SET (Australia) - They used digital masters provided by TOSHIBA-EMI from the above release so it is the same version.
The wave forms from the first three look different from the last two. It truly is hard to tell. Also, it is funny that Capitol would remix the track rather than pull it off their safety. And why remix the mono version?
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Post by Al S on Jan 6, 2024 19:30:57 GMT -5
Ok, here are the wav forms for 5 different rips of SURFER GIRL. They are from the following releases:
SURFER GIRL CD - MFSL flat transfer of the 1967 remix. SURFER GIRL CD - PAST MASTERS flat transfer of the 1967 remix. ENDLESS SUMMER CD - 1987 pretty flat transfer of the 1967 remix. THE CAPITOL YEARS BOX SET (Japan) - Flat transfer of the UK compiled masters for release. I THINK that they used the earlier mix of SURFER GIRL from 1963. It just sounds different.
THE CAPITOL YEARS BOX SET (Australia) - They used digital masters provided by TOSHIBA-EMI from the above release so it is the same version.
The wave forms from the first three look different from the last two. It truly is hard to tell. Also, it is funny that Capitol would remix the track rather than pull it off their safety. And why remix the mono version?
The PM ‘67 (item 2) looks the least “compressed”, or the most dynamic of the bunch - but, to your point, there ain’t much in it. I would think a ‘67 mix would sound better due to Chuck’s inevitable growth and experience as an engineer, updated equipment and improved consumer playback mediums nudging better produced media. |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 6, 2024 20:10:26 GMT -5
Al,
We know two things. One that the SURFER GIRL LP came out in the UK in March of 1967 and the track was remixed in May of 1967. It's trying to find out the rest of the story that is driving me crazy LOL!
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Post by Mikie on Jan 6, 2024 22:38:38 GMT -5
tendency to have a questionable relationship with the truth. Ha Ha Ha! Good one. I'm going to use that statement in the future.  P.S. I've always liked the binaural mix of Surfer Girl. |
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Post by Al S on Jan 7, 2024 0:19:18 GMT -5
Happens all of the time. Here is the master tape for EMI-ABBEY ROAD's copy of HELP by THE BEATLES. The last track on side 2, DIZZY MISS LIZZY looks to have been screwed up while they were making a copy for Yugoslavia. It was replaced by a copy off of the safety (in essence, that track is now a copy of a copy) an placed on the master. The red arrows are mine.
...on a copy: as the tape pictured here is itself a safety (see top left below the matrix assignation). I love this stuff, Bob, keep it coming! |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 7, 2024 1:32:31 GMT -5
Happens all of the time. Here is the master tape for EMI-ABBEY ROAD's copy of HELP by THE BEATLES. The last track on side 2, DIZZY MISS LIZZY looks to have been screwed up while they were making a copy for Yugoslavia. It was replaced by a copy off of the safety (in essence, that track is now a copy of a copy) an placed on the master. The red arrows are mine.
...on a copy: as the tape pictured here is itself a safety (see top left below the matrix assignation). I love this stuff, Bob, keep it coming! I think that just means that this tape is an eq'd and compressed copy of the master (something they would do at EMI). Check out the master for side one. It says remixed copy, but the notes say remixed-eq'd and compressed.
There are 2 "masters" for LET IT BE. There is the main master and the corrected cutting master. It even says to go to the other master when making a copy. Yes I understand there are cutting masters, etc. But this was the only time EMI sent this kind of corrected master to MFSL. All of the others were "masters". However, it looks like they went to this master for GET BACK that was used on the EMI version of Rock And Roll Music issued in 1976.
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Post by Stephen W. Desper on Jan 10, 2024 12:04:52 GMT -5
COMMENT: How do I post a photo from my digital camera that does not appear here the size of a postage stamp? ~
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daytona
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I’d like to help you son but you’re too young to vote
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Post by daytona on Jan 10, 2024 12:30:57 GMT -5
COMMENT: How do I post a photo from my digital camera that does not appear here the size of a postage stamp? ~ Is it possible for you to transfer it to your device and see if that improves the quality a;y? |
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Post by Mikie on Jan 10, 2024 14:56:34 GMT -5
COMMENT: How do I post a photo from my digital camera that does not appear here the size of a postage stamp? ~ Stephen, I sent you a PM. -Mike |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 11, 2024 19:03:35 GMT -5
COMMENT: How do I post a photo from my digital camera that does not appear here the size of a postage stamp? ~ Stephen, I sent you a PM. -Mike OMG-I can't wait to see what Stephen has in store for us! |
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Post by Mikie on Jan 11, 2024 19:09:49 GMT -5
Communicating.......waiting.......anticipating.
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Post by longtime lurker on Jan 11, 2024 21:57:03 GMT -5
Stephen, I sent you a PM. -Mike OMG-I can't wait to see what Stephen has in store for us! Scan of the tape box(es) containing one (or more) of the Manson sessions from 1968/69? |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 12, 2024 19:31:28 GMT -5
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 13, 2024 9:21:02 GMT -5
Not a master tape, but interesting.
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Post by Matt H on Jan 13, 2024 9:55:52 GMT -5
Not a master tape, but interesting.
Does it sound a lot different from the Still Cruisin version? |
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 13, 2024 10:19:30 GMT -5
From the studios at Abbey Road (U1630 Safety Copies).
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petsite
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Post by petsite on Jan 13, 2024 10:24:01 GMT -5
Not a master tape, but interesting.
Does it sound a lot different from the Still Cruisin version? I don't know, I never heard it. This is an image I copied down from an ebay auction. The guy pulled it after about a day. |
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