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Post by karmafrog on Jun 21, 2023 7:51:47 GMT -5
Phew! It's up. The latest episode of PET SQUARES: A GEEK'S GUIDE TO THE BEACH BOYS. We return to the album deep dive format with part one of a more than two hour, two part look at the 1965 album SUMMER DAYS (AND SUMMER NIGHTS!!). This is the last proper studio album before PET SOUNDS and there's a lot to talk about. Though long, it's fast paced and we go down a lot of rabbit holes: Carl's emergence as a lead vocalist, Bruce's impact in the studio and especially the infamous Murry Wilson meltdown that took place during the recording of "Help Me Rhonda". And best of all, there's new and better sound quality for this and all future episodes. Enjoy PET SQUARES #15! PET SQUARES #16 (Summer Days Side Two) has been filmed and will follow soon. |
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Post by lonesurf on Jun 21, 2023 7:58:45 GMT -5
This looks great …. Can’t wait to listen … thanks!
Edit: Just watched & really enjoyed it.
Highly recommended.
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Post by jk on Jun 22, 2023 5:46:56 GMT -5
Poooff! I found this episode quite an exhausting listen. Okay, I was dog tired last night, but still. I was looking for a place to pause it to take a toilet break but there wasn't one! (Took it anyway.) Once the admittedly eloquent Mr Marsland starts speaking, man he does not let up.  Maybe there was too much preamble, maybe there was too much about this melt-down thingie. The parts about the songs themselves were fascinating as always.  But please, Adam, make it a habit to name Craig's team-mates each time. Surely Joshilyn, Will and John deserve it.  |
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Post by karmafrog on Jun 22, 2023 8:16:30 GMT -5
I did name them in take one of this show, even blew them a kiss, but I trashed and completely did that over from scratch because I was exhausted and it showed in the presentation. I did it again in Part 2. But I mispronounced Joshilyn's name on that take.
I didn't let up because I didn't want it to go even longer! I edited out as much dead air as I could. There's a lot to discuss.
I do my best to get these as perfect as I can, but you can't do everything every time. I'm kicking myself that I left Brian's bass credit out for "Then I Kissed Her."
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Post by jk on Jun 22, 2023 8:44:29 GMT -5
I did name them in take one of this show, even blew them a kiss, but I trashed and completely did that over from scratch because I was exhausted and it showed in the presentation. I did it again in Part 2. But I mispronounced Joshilyn's name on that take. I didn't let up because I didn't want it to go even longer! I edited out as much dead air as I could. There's a lot to discuss. I do my best to get these as perfect as I can, but you can't do everything every time. I'm kicking myself that I left Brian's bass credit out for "Then I Kissed Her." No offence meant, Adam. I was tired, irritable perhaps and had trouble concentrating. As you say, there's a LOT in there. And you're certainly forgiven for any mishaps! The added texts are a real boon in that respect. JH makes occasional use of them herself in her tutorials. It all comes out in the wash, as they say.  Respect! I'll be there for Part 2. |
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Post by karmafrog on Jun 22, 2023 9:27:58 GMT -5
I did name them in take one of this show, even blew them a kiss, but I trashed and completely did that over from scratch because I was exhausted and it showed in the presentation. I did it again in Part 2. But I mispronounced Joshilyn's name on that take. I didn't let up because I didn't want it to go even longer! I edited out as much dead air as I could. There's a lot to discuss. I do my best to get these as perfect as I can, but you can't do everything every time. I'm kicking myself that I left Brian's bass credit out for "Then I Kissed Her." No offence meant, Adam. I was tired, irritable perhaps and had trouble concentrating. As you say, there's a LOT in there. And you're certainly forgiven for any mishaps! The added texts are a real boon in that respect. JH makes occasional use of them herself in her tutorials. It all comes out in the wash, as they say. Respect! I'll be there for Part 2. Not at all. They are getting kind of long, but the mishap with trying to get the trio their propers is a good example of why it's difficult to leave anything out. I'm dreading PET SOUNDS and SMILE. I think that's going to have to be some kind of multi-part mess. |
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Post by jk on Jun 22, 2023 9:53:00 GMT -5
No offence meant, Adam. I was tired, irritable perhaps and had trouble concentrating. As you say, there's a LOT in there. And you're certainly forgiven for any mishaps! The added texts are a real boon in that respect. JH makes occasional use of them herself in her tutorials. It all comes out in the wash, as they say. Respect! I'll be there for Part 2. Not at all. They are getting kind of long, but the mishap with trying to get the trio their propers is a good example of why it's difficult to leave anything out. I'm dreading PET SOUNDS and SMILE. I think that's going to have to be some kind of multi-part mess.I was thinking the same about PS (not the "mess" bit  ). Maybe split it into tracks 1-3, 4-7, 8-10, 11-13? Some tracks almost require a "square" to themselves! I'm sure it will all work out fine. |
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Post by Emdeeh on Jun 22, 2023 12:21:29 GMT -5
Fascinating as always, Adam! I never thought of "The Girl from NYC" as a precursor of "Wild Honey" before, but I see the connection once you point it out.
I don't think of Summer Days... as a lesser album than Today! or PS. It's a strong work that stands on its own, imo, so I agree with you there.
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Post by E on Jun 22, 2023 14:46:58 GMT -5
Really enjoyed this, Adam. Thanks for posting it.
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Post by jk on Jun 23, 2023 3:26:58 GMT -5
Thinking back on SDSN-1 in a less crusty frame of mind, I recall being most impressed by the visuals issuing from the picture on the studio wall -- to say nothing of the vibraphone floating into view. Who else in pop was using vibes in those days? Tamla Motown certainly was -- maybe this was where Brian got the idea. They're all over many of The Supremes’ early hits, including their fifth (!) consecutive US #1, "Back In My Arms Again": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_in_My_Arms_Again |
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Post by monolithic on Jun 23, 2023 4:12:15 GMT -5
Not at all. They are getting kind of long, but the mishap with trying to get the trio their propers is a good example of why it's difficult to leave anything out. I'm dreading PET SOUNDS and SMILE. I think that's going to have to be some kind of multi-part mess.Skip 'em. They're both derivative bilge anyway! Thanks for doing these and I look forward to listening to this one over the weekend. |
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Post by jk on Jun 23, 2023 4:50:17 GMT -5
Who else in pop was using vibes in those days? Tamla Motown certainly was -- maybe this was where Brian got the idea. Here's the earliest pop example I could find. (Maybe you can do better. *) It's from the time when Smokey Robinson took over producing and (co-)writing duties on Mary Wells' records. "You Beat Me To The Punch" gave her her second top ten hit in 1962. It's one more candidate for Brian's introduction to the instrument (I see no vibraphone in the scoring of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, just to rule that out): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Beat_Me_to_the_Punch* Thinking here of the likes of jasonaustin |
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Post by karmafrog on Jun 23, 2023 6:45:20 GMT -5
Thinking back on SDSN-1 in a less crusty frame of mind, I recall being most impressed by the visuals issuing from the picture on the studio wall -- to say nothing of the vibraphone floating into view. Who else in pop was using vibes in those days? Tamla Motown certainly was -- maybe this was where Brian got the idea. They're all over many of The Supremes’ early hits, including their fifth (!) consecutive US #1, "Back In My Arms Again": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_in_My_Arms_AgainSomeone in the comments pointed out that one of the sax riffs (I think in APUSA) is lifted from a Supremes record. I never would have thought of that, but I think he's right. I love when people shine that kind of light. |
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Post by karmafrog on Jun 23, 2023 6:48:20 GMT -5
Not at all. They are getting kind of long, but the mishap with trying to get the trio their propers is a good example of why it's difficult to leave anything out. I'm dreading PET SOUNDS and SMILE. I think that's going to have to be some kind of multi-part mess.Skip 'em. They're both derivative bilge anyway! Thanks for doing these and I look forward to listening to this one over the weekend. I actually toyed with the idea of doing just that this morning! But it was more in the way of a joke that you'll actually never tell. I'm a little bit excited about SMILE, even though that's such a rabbit hole, because there's still some mystery to be unraveled there. PET SOUNDS though has just been *so thoroughly* examined. It's hard to think of something new to say about it. The through line for 1966 and 1967 for me has to be interpreting the band's resistance to the work from the standpoint of the working musician to fans (particularly younger ones) who are only thinking about the art. It wasn't just the guys being difficult. They had legitimate reasons to be concerned about what was going on. |
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Post by jk on Jun 23, 2023 8:50:52 GMT -5
Who else in pop was using vibes in those days? Tamla Motown certainly was -- maybe this was where Brian got the idea. They're all over many of The Supremes’ early hits, including their fifth (!) consecutive US #1, "Back In My Arms Again": Someone in the comments pointed out that one of the sax riffs (I think in APUSA) is lifted from a Supremes record. I never would have thought of that, but I think he's right. I love when people shine that kind of light. This comment? "The eleven note bari riff on Girl From New York City is very interesting. and sneaky. It's Motown. Listen to the last 11 or so notes of the bari solo on Where Did Our Love Go. Brian transposed the feel: GFNYC in in straight 8's, The Supremes track is in a moderate uptempo quarter note swing. Also the head voice/falsetto line in the chorus is from Dancin' In The Streets" Couple of interesting thoughts there... |
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Post by jk on Jun 25, 2023 6:54:53 GMT -5
All this made me recall someone suggesting, on this forum, that the seeds of "Good Vibrations" were sown in "TGFNYC" -- principally, I should imagine, through the upward shift of a tone from C in the verse to D in the chorus, whose subdominant (G) doubles as dominant on the way back down to C.
In "Good Vibrations", the chorus in G flat major shifts up a tone twice in succession before returning to the relative minor of the verse. In this case, the mediant of G flat major of the second upward shift (i.e. B flat) becomes the dominant of E flat minor. This isn't the whole story, of course.
I'd go a step further and suggest that the earliest seeds to be sown of "GV" occur in "The Shift", with the unprecedented upward, um, shift at the beginning of the "verse" from G to A and then back down at the end.
Just a jk thought...
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Post by Autotune on Jun 25, 2023 7:07:32 GMT -5
All this made me recall someone suggesting, on this forum, that the seeds of "Good Vibrations" were sown in "TGFNYC" -- principally, I should imagine, through the upward shift of a tone from C in the verse to D in the chorus, whose subdominant (G) doubles as dominant on the way back down to C. In "Good Vibrations", the chorus in G flat major shifts up a tone twice in succession before returning to the relative minor of the verse. In this case, the mediant of G flat major of the second upward shift (i.e. B flat) becomes the dominant of E flat minor. This isn't the whole story, of course. I'd go a step further and suggest that the earliest seeds to be sown of "GV" occur in "The Shift", with the unprecedented upward, um, shift at the beginning of the "verse" from G to A and then back down at the end. Just a jk thought... Great post! I would argue that the chorus of California Girls, with its *downward* I-II progression is the most direct precursor to the *upward* Gb-Ab-Bb chorus of GV. |
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Post by jk on Jun 25, 2023 7:35:10 GMT -5
All this made me recall someone suggesting, on this forum, that the seeds of "Good Vibrations" were sown in "TGFNYC" -- principally, I should imagine, through the upward shift of a tone from C in the verse to D in the chorus, whose subdominant (G) doubles as dominant on the way back down to C. In "Good Vibrations", the chorus in G flat major shifts up a tone twice in succession before returning to the relative minor of the verse. In this case, the mediant of G flat major of the second upward shift (i.e. B flat) becomes the dominant of E flat minor. This isn't the whole story, of course. I'd go a step further and suggest that the earliest seeds to be sown of "GV" occur in "The Shift", with the unprecedented upward, um, shift at the beginning of the "verse" from G to A and then back down at the end. Just a jk thought... Great post! I would argue that the chorus of California Girls, with its *downward* I-II progression is the most direct precursor to the *upward* Gb-Ab-Bb chorus of GV. Thanks! Great observation there about "CG". Another piece of the puzzle in place! |
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Post by Autotune on Jun 25, 2023 11:52:54 GMT -5
Then there is Don’t Hurt My Little Sister, the chorus of which uses a similar progression to Cal Girl, thus turning it into a pre-precursor.
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Post by karmafrog on Jun 26, 2023 10:45:42 GMT -5
All this made me recall someone suggesting, on this forum, that the seeds of "Good Vibrations" were sown in "TGFNYC" -- principally, I should imagine, through the upward shift of a tone from C in the verse to D in the chorus, whose subdominant (G) doubles as dominant on the way back down to C. In "Good Vibrations", the chorus in G flat major shifts up a tone twice in succession before returning to the relative minor of the verse. In this case, the mediant of G flat major of the second upward shift (i.e. B flat) becomes the dominant of E flat minor. This isn't the whole story, of course. I'd go a step further and suggest that the earliest seeds to be sown of "GV" occur in "The Shift", with the unprecedented upward, um, shift at the beginning of the "verse" from G to A and then back down at the end. Just a jk thought... Great post! I would argue that the chorus of California Girls, with its *downward* I-II progression is the most direct precursor to the *upward* Gb-Ab-Bb chorus of GV. I actually get into this very point in Part Two... |
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Post by jk on Jun 27, 2023 15:42:44 GMT -5
Who else in pop was using vibes in those days? Tamla Motown certainly was -- maybe this was where Brian got the idea. They're all over many of The Supremes’ early hits, including their fifth (!) consecutive US #1, "Back In My Arms Again": Someone in the comments pointed out that one of the sax riffs (I think in APUSA) is lifted from a Supremes record. I never would have thought of that, but I think he's right. I love when people shine that kind of light. It's in "The Girl From New York City". As for The Supremes, that's the great Mike Terry on baritone on so many '60s Motown and soul classics (see here). Actually, I hear distinct echoes of the bari riff on "TGFNYC" in Terry's honking on The Supremes' "BIMAA" embedded above (after 1:36). So maybe it was Terry's style in general that appealed to Brian... |
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Post by jk on Jun 28, 2023 3:17:10 GMT -5
Actually, I hear distinct echoes of the bari riff on "TGFNYC" in Terry's honking on The Supremes' "BIMAA" embedded above (after 1:36). So maybe it was Terry's style in general that appealed to Brian A final thought: I was puzzled by the provenance of the fourth (C-G) at the start of the riff and there it is in "BIMAA" -- at the same pitch!  A final final thought several hours later: AGD's indispensable site gives the first date of recording for "TGFNYC" as 25 May 1965. "BIMAA" was released on 15 April of that year, so in theory it's possible that it influenced the "NYC" sax riff. |
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brian65
Grommet
Posts: 22
Likes: 12
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Post by brian65 on Jul 1, 2023 18:07:02 GMT -5
I believe Brian or Dennis also plays Timpani on Then I Kissed Her. On Rhonda, Carl says that Mike's Bass part is too weak so Brian and Al double it on the Final Mix Down. Bruce plays Celeste on Girl Don't Tell Me, which I think was covered in the video? I can't remember.
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Post by karmafrog on Jul 2, 2023 1:42:12 GMT -5
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Post by lonesurf on Jul 3, 2023 16:16:41 GMT -5
Great, as always. Thank you for doing this.
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). Maybe split it into tracks 1-3, 4-7, 8-10, 11-13? Some tracks almost require a "square" to themselves! 
